This is why the PRT is so invested in PR. They are trying to get the populace to keep faith in the heroes despite this. To slow the decline of support for themselves and the government as a whole. Because the moment Joe Average on the street starts thinking 'maybe Kaiser can do better than the heroes' they lose.

And Kaiser is the one who is really going to weigh in these considerations here. Kaiser might not know who Shadow Stalker's private identity is, but the moment he catches on to the fact that the PRT is trying to cover up the bullying of a white girl by a black girl he'll be ecstatic. And he does have the means to get info like that out there. A coup like that means he gets more new triggers, more recruits and more support. And the PRT would be losing those things. Shadow Stalker isn't worth that.

It's kind of shakey ground to use WoG, but Wildbow's plan of events for if Taylor just joined the wards up front without going villain was that she'd be told to shut up and work with Shadow Stalker while Piggot kept things quiet. That implies to me that the PRT isn't really worried about bullying allegations getting out?
 
It's kind of shakey ground to use WoG, but Wildbow's plan of events for if Taylor just joined the wards up front without going villain was that she'd be told to shut up and work with Shadow Stalker while Piggot kept things quiet. That implies to me that the PRT isn't really worried about bullying allegations getting out?

What would be the plan if she said no though?
 
What would be the plan if she said no though?

Shadow Stalker - She wasn't kept around because she's useful against Endbringers. She isn't. Look at that scene again. She's forced to get too close and she gets creamed. She's super vulnerable to energy in her shadow state (nix Behemoth), can't really close in vs. a fast or mobile target (nix Leviathan for the most part, Simurgh), is emotionally imbalanced (nix Simurgh) and doesn't do any meaningful damage.

People don't generally know about her vigilante background (she kept to the shadows, hyuk hyuk) and the info & reality about her personality didn't come out until she was already on the team. It's hard to unseat a crook-turned-cape once they're on board, because then you run the risk that the public discovers you're bringing less than savory types on board. Besides, in the PRT's view, she was more or less playing ball. Getting therapy, using tranq darts, attending patrols (if alone), attending her track team, and going out to movies with her best friend. If something came up at school, it was generally seen as a bump in the road to recovery. This is why she was as pissed as she was over the meeting at the school where everything came up. It straight up overturned her act. In a calmer situation, if things hadn't gone shit-sideways, stuff would have gone through and things would have changed. Not enough, but they would have.

If Taylor had pushed and pushed and pushed (or if Taylor had joined the team and made an issue of it), maybe something would have happened, but even then... what do you do? It goes back to the question of how problematic it is to get rid of troublesome recruits. Sophia stays on the team in an official capacity, makes appearances, but generally it's for show, and she isn't allowed to patrol anymore (at which point she gets restless and snaps, which the PRT may or may not anticipate, depending on what's on the table).​

Now, Wildbow's WOG is always kind of weird and sometimes doesn't fit canon, but I think the intention was that the PRT wouldn't risk the PR hit of admitting a ward was doing anything wrong unless they absolutely had to. If Taylor can present positive proof to the media, maybe that's different, but in terms of getting Taylor on the Wards the reaction isn't even moving Sophia to another city (or at least not before she snaps) anything.
 
Though the last bit was written while I was tired, yet awake thanks to adderall, so maybe that's the secret to writing emotions in my case?
I think that's a requirement for everyone to write emotions, especially the strongest ones/the ones that hit just a wee bit too close to home.
 
You miss my meaning.
It seems to be mutual. I'm not saying MM is going to burst in public outrage at Shadow Stalker's actions, but she's going to find them personally distastful and when she discovers they happened it's quite possible she'd show some of that distaste.

If this is so important, so emotionally stirring, that a hero would be cast down even without much evidence beyond a criminal's word,
I'm tempted to call this a strawman but it's possible I did so bad a job explaining that you think this relates to my position somehow.
 
Miss Militia is not a stone-cold killer. She is, however, a soldier, and has been since childhood. She can and will kill in battle, and will accede to orders in war which are distasteful (but not, necessarily, illegal) because she understands that battle is nasty and bad things happen. The job is to minimize those, not to refuse to take action rather than be the cause of the minimal amount.

She is also one of the most fervent believers in Truth, Justice, and the American Way in Worm. She ardently believes in and loves the principles on which the USA were founded, and is extremely grateful to be a citizen of the nation that (in theory) represents and supports those ideals. As has been stated, she probably isn't going to take one person's word for it off the cuff, nor is she going to storm into Director Piggot's office and make sweeping demands for justice. She believes - for the most part - in the system, and she would exercise every iota of her influence within it to make it behave properly and discover, then execute, justice.

She's not the "nicest hero." She is, however, the most upright and law-abiding. If she isn't a paladin, she's at least the closest thing to Lawful Good the setting has to offer.
 
Because:

a) The PRT was built by someone who wants more triggers and will accept abominable moral costs.

AND

b) Are you joking? That's exactly what happened to Bitch. To a tee.
Your first point falls under "canon Cauldron is nonsensically incompetent", and not even that important to determining the organization's direction. Even if Alexandria is willing to accept abominable moral costs, the PRT needs to look like it's doing its job to the satisfaction of the people that make up the organization. If the force intended to fight parahuman crime doesn't act in a way that looks like it's actually trying to do so, there will be plenty of people throwing up red flags about it. The PRT is made up of people who joined an organization that advertises itself as protecting people. It's not a bunch of drones controlled by the Costa-Brown hivemind.

Your second point relies on a hilariously false equivalence. Shadow Stalker being found out as one of the people who bullied Starfield into triggering after Starfield causes a minor injury with her powers in her civilian identity is very much not exactly what happened when Bitch's foster parent's abuse caused her to trigger, and Bitch's dog killing the foster mother.

edit: Oh, and let's not forget that Taylor got an indication to the authorities about the problem (i.e. Shadow Stalker) far enough ahead of her crime that there was an investigation already happening1​, whereas Bitch apparently never got enough attention for someone to realize that her dogs are trained, not controlled, and her crime is most accurately involuntary manslaughter2​.

1) This means the timeline from the PRT's perspective is "oh, shit, Shadow Stalker pissed off Starfield somehow" > investigation starts > "oh, shit, parahuman attacked a girl in Winslow" > "oh, shit, was that Starfield" > "fuck that was Starfield".
2) Bitch's timeline from the PRT's perspective, on the other hand, is "oh, shit, this little girl just murdered her foster mother" > "we're going to arrest her for murder" > "she keeps running away and resisting arrest".
 
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Ironically, despite it being a Wildbow setting, Bitch probably wouldn't get railroaded by the system if she turned herself in, or were caught and subjected to trial. For the same reason they show Shadow Stalker such lenience, they'd easily piece together justification to put Bitch on a Wards team, and it wouldn't take too much time with the PRT Psych team to figure out that keeping her happy and cooperative involves letting her care for dogs.

It'd be tense, and probably have some missteps, but as long as she were given even half the attention and chances that Sophia must've gotten...
 
2) Bitch's timeline from the PRT's perspective, on the other hand, is "oh, shit, this little girl just murdered her foster mother" > "we're going to arrest her for murder" > "she keeps running away and resisting arrest".
And then Bitch actually did end up dropping several bodies after her trigger. The initial homicide was involuntary manslaughter, absolutely, but the later ones are felony murder at least, depending on context.
 
Ironically, despite it being a Wildbow setting, Bitch probably wouldn't get railroaded by the system if she turned herself in, or were caught and subjected to trial. For the same reason they show Shadow Stalker such lenience, they'd easily piece together justification to put Bitch on a Wards team, and it wouldn't take too much time with the PRT Psych team to figure out that keeping her happy and cooperative involves letting her care for dogs.

It'd be tense, and probably have some missteps, but as long as she were given even half the attention and chances that Sophia must've gotten...
Depends on how soon after her trigger it happened, I think. It'd be hard to rebrand a villain like her after 5+ years.
 
Ironically, despite it being a Wildbow setting, Bitch probably wouldn't get railroaded by the system if she turned herself in, or were caught and subjected to trial. For the same reason they show Shadow Stalker such lenience, they'd easily piece together justification to put Bitch on a Wards team, and it wouldn't take too much time with the PRT Psych team to figure out that keeping her happy and cooperative involves letting her care for dogs.

It'd be tense, and probably have some missteps, but as long as she were given even half the attention and chances that Sophia must've gotten...
I'm writing a fic where exactly that happens. It's currently in the outlining stage.
Also, take a closer look at the WoG. The only reason the PRT wouldn't throw Shadow Stalker in jail if Wards!Taylor had a problem with her is that they'd lose a massive amount of public support if it came out that they were recruiting people like what Shadow Stalker really is. So they do the next-best thing: keep her on base, monitored the whole time so they can make sure she never pulls off shit like that again.
 
Depends on how soon after her trigger it happened, I think. It'd be hard to rebrand a villain like her after 5+ years.
To be fair, they managed it with Assault.

And honestly? A little honesty about her situation would help. "Abused girl, raised by the dogs who are her Mastered pets" goes a long way to buying sympathy. I mean, it works for the audience of Worm. And she IS unlikable as a person due to her personality, despite her not being a BAD person. It's hard to like somebody who response with hostility to normal friendly behavior.

Creepy thought: if she'd come across somebody who treated her the way humans treat (beloved, family pet) dogs, she probably would respond well to that, given how her psychology has been warped. Creepier thought: I could totally see Coil/Calvert doing that if he realized it was the right approach. Imagine the good PR for Director Calvert if he adopted the troubled girl himself after proving to be the only adult authority figure with whom she had a bond. (I feel like I need a shower just writing that sentence.)
 
To be fair, I, personally, have something of a hard time feeling my own emotions (even though some physiological aspects of said emotions still happen; like, the other day, I got a little teary-eyed even though I felt nothing, really) to the point where, at one point, I thought I might be a sociopath.

My gf and bf helped me learn that I can still feel love, though, even though it's a bit muted. So that's good. It's probably just a combination of naturally low emotional response and depression.

... Where was I? Oh, yeah. Anyway, the takeaway is that I can sometimes have trouble writing emotions. Though the last bit was written while I was tired, yet awake thanks to adderall, so maybe that's the secret to writing emotions in my case? I dunno.
Probably something about your identity being the limiting factor if you needed to stop using it to write emotional interaction. Maybe do something about finding where identity stops and basic principles of idea processing starts, and then using those instead. Like how most of a persons DNA is the same as everyone elses DNA, but there's that little bit that is different.
 
Creepy thought: if she'd come across somebody who treated her the way humans treat (beloved, family pet) dogs, she probably would respond well to that, given how her psychology has been warped. Creepier thought: I could totally see Coil/Calvert doing that if he realized it was the right approach. Imagine the good PR for Director Calvert if he adopted the troubled girl himself after proving to be the only adult authority figure with whom she had a bond. (I feel like I need a shower just writing that sentence.)
One of the many things an actual competent Coil could do to achieve his goals.
 
She is also one of the most fervent believers in Truth, Justice, and the American Way in Worm.
:wtf:
You've either got some serious rose-tinted recollections of Miss Militia, most likely from how fanon tends to portray her, or this was a truly masterful burn towards Miss Militia regarding the inherent hypocrisy of American rhetoric versus historical American actions.

Due to a general lack of faith in humanity I'm going to assume it was the former, but am open to being happily surprised if you were actually going for the latter.
 
:wtf:
You've either got some serious rose-tinted recollections of Miss Militia, most likely from how fanon tends to portray her, or this was a truly masterful burn towards Miss Militia regarding the inherent hypocrisy of American rhetoric versus historical American actions.

Due to a general lack of faith in humanity I'm going to assume it was the former, but am open to being happily surprised if you were actually going for the latter.
What actual Worm canon says about Miss Militia's patriotism:
Interlude 7 said:
She'd grown to love this country. Truly love it, for what it stood for. She'd had to fight to wear the flag as part of her costume. America wasn't perfect, but nothing touched by human hands could be. There was greed, corruption, selfishness, pettiness, hatred. But there were good things too. Freedoms, ideas, choices, hope and the possibility that anyone could be anything, here, if they were willing to strive for it.
 
I'm writing a fic where exactly that happens. It's currently in the outlining stage.
Also, take a closer look at the WoG. The only reason the PRT wouldn't throw Shadow Stalker in jail if Wards!Taylor had a problem with her is that they'd lose a massive amount of public support if it came out that they were recruiting people like what Shadow Stalker really is. So they do the next-best thing: keep her on base, monitored the whole time so they can make sure she never pulls off shit like that again.
A problem with the wog is that people like to generalize the specific statement he makes and lose nuance.

And take if we get any kinda of serious notice well look into verify and try punish and limit her In house and on the down low with what is effectively house arrest and will send her away if she continues to fuck up or immediately if given much much greater cause. Like canon stalker hacking.
 
I primarily base my assessment of Miss Militia on her interlude from canon. Through nobody's eyes is she ever portrayed as cruel or heartless. Willing to treat battle as a soldier does, yes. But never shown to follow needlessly cruel orders, not to uphold them in the face of what's right on behalf of people she knows to be corrupting their position with said orders. To be fair, canon does not show her tested in that regard, either. But what we do see and are told does not paint a picture of one who would serve corruption willingly and knowingly.

I think the worst that can be said of her is that she might enforce the wrong side of a moral situation because the limited information she has comes through a particular and deceptive lens. Though honestly, I don't recall even things which make me level that accusation. Merely that I could see it happening, given how often Skitter finds herself digging deeper despite good intentions. Road to Hell and all that. And it is a very NICE hand basket in which to ride.
 
What actual Worm canon says about Miss Militia's patriotism:
Indeed, and I was referring to the hypocrisy and general asshole-ish way she sometimes behaved in the latter parts of Worm.
Or have you forgot when she jammed a gun into a young girls mouth to shut her up because she didn't like what she was hearing? There was nothing of Justice involved with that, just trying to hide the dirty truth from people that might not know it yet while she herself still faithfully served those who at that point she damn well knew had been exposed as villians worse than any they were currently fighting.

Fanon Miss Militia is certainly usually a good person trying to make the best of difficult situation while working within the system.

Canon Miss Militia on the other hand by the end of Worm is little more than a caricature of a good little "Only Following Orders" bot that wouldn't have looked out of place at the Nuremberg trials.

It's not dissimilar to how Amy/Panacea is usually portrayed as simply misunderstood and in need of a hug and someone to listen to her, when in canon she was a raging bitch that could have given Bakuda a run for her money in a stupidly self-defeating decisions contest.
 
Indeed, and I was referring to the hypocrisy and general asshole-ish way she sometimes behaved in the latter parts of Worm.
Or have you forgot when she jammed a gun into a young girls mouth to shut her up because she didn't like what she was hearing? There was nothing of Justice involved with that, just trying to hide the dirty truth from people that might not know it yet while she herself still faithfully served those who at that point she damn well knew had been exposed as villians worse than any they were currently fighting.

Fanon Miss Militia is certainly usually a good person trying to make the best of difficult situation while working within the system.

Canon Miss Militia on the other hand by the end of Worm is little more than a caricature of a good little "Only Following Orders" bot that wouldn't have looked out of place at the Nuremberg trials.

It's not dissimilar to how Amy/Panacea is usually portrayed as simply misunderstood and in need of a hug and someone to listen to her, when in canon she was a raging bitch that could have given Bakuda a run for her money in a stupidly self-defeating decisions contest.

While I'm hardly going to claim she is perfect I'm going to note that the incident with Tattletale is a little more nuanced than 'jammed a gun into a young girls mouth to shut her up because she didn't like what she was hearing'... Remember that Tattletale isn't just a young girl, she is a dangerously powerful thinker with a proven record of doing a lot of damage by talking. Shutting her up is in fact needed to remove her threat. Now you can argue that there are better ways to do that than shoving a gun into her mouth but there was at least some justification.
 
Fanon Miss Militia is certainly usually a good person trying to make the best of difficult situation while working within the system.

Canon Miss Militia on the other hand by the end of Worm is little more than a caricature of a good little "Only Following Orders" bot that wouldn't have looked out of place at the Nuremberg trials.

It's not dissimilar to how Amy/Panacea is usually portrayed as simply misunderstood and in need of a hug and someone to listen to her, when in canon she was a raging bitch that could have given Bakuda a run for her money in a stupidly self-defeating decisions contest.

Yeah, Amy was pretty brainwashed and generally fucked up.

Miss Militia was kinda willfully blind by the end, but she started out okay.
 
Your first point falls under "canon Cauldron is nonsensically incompetent",

Still canon.

and not even that important to determining the organization's direction. Even if Alexandria is willing to accept abominable moral costs, the PRT needs to look like it's doing its job to the satisfaction of the people that make up the organization.

Which has nothing to do with what it does, and everything to do with good PR.

If the force intended to fight parahuman crime doesn't act in a way that looks like it's actually trying to do so, there will be plenty of people throwing up red flags about it. The PRT is made up of people who joined an organization that advertises itself as protecting people. It's not a bunch of drones controlled by the Costa-Brown hivemind.

No, it's just also full of people who owe Cauldron favours, people shown to be vulnerable to corruption, and is being controlled by an organisation with zero qualms about murdering people to keep things on their chosen course.

Your second point relies on a hilariously false equivalence. Shadow Stalker being found out as one of the people who bullied Starfield into triggering after Starfield causes a minor injury with her powers in her civilian identity is very much not exactly what happened when Bitch's foster parent's abuse caused her to trigger, and Bitch's dog killing the foster mother.

More persistent fanon, check again because Rollo didn't kill her foster mom. It was still enough to get her hunted, despite her being at least a few years younger than Taylor is at present. Probably quite a bit younger since she has issues reading. (just checked via ctrl f and somehow Rachel was fourteen at the time and unable to read while being raised by a woman who constantly made her take lessons in stuff...which seems implausible, but again, canon)

1) This means the timeline from the PRT's perspective is "oh, shit, Shadow Stalker pissed off Starfield somehow" > investigation starts > "oh, shit, parahuman attacked a girl in Winslow" > "oh, shit, was that Starfield" > "fuck that was Starfield".
2) Bitch's timeline from the PRT's perspective, on the other hand, is "oh, shit, this little girl just murdered her foster mother" > "we're going to arrest her for murder" > "she keeps running away and resisting arrest".

I love how you've just conveniently left out the "we're going to arrest her for assault with a deadly weapon/parahuman power" part of the first of those.

Miss Militia is not a stone-cold killer. She is, however, a soldier, and has been since childhood. She can and will kill in battle, and will accede to orders in war which are distasteful (but not, necessarily, illegal) because she understands that battle is nasty and bad things happen. The job is to minimize those, not to refuse to take action rather than be the cause of the minimal amount.

She is also one of the most fervent believers in Truth, Justice, and the American Way in Worm. She ardently believes in and loves the principles on which the USA were founded, and is extremely grateful to be a citizen of the nation that (in theory) represents and supports those ideals. As has been stated, she probably isn't going to take one person's word for it off the cuff, nor is she going to storm into Director Piggot's office and make sweeping demands for justice. She believes - for the most part - in the system, and she would exercise every iota of her influence within it to make it behave properly and discover, then execute, justice.

She's not the "nicest hero." She is, however, the most upright and law-abiding. If she isn't a paladin, she's at least the closest thing to Lawful Good the setting has to offer.

Blah blah patriotism blah blah no original thoughts here.

The flaw here is that you're claiming she's not evil, just lawful stupid, and yet she stuck with the PRT/Protectorate despite them breaking the law on a massive scale. She was willing to see laws bent, and paid no mind to unofficial codes of conduct.

In fact I'm curious, can you actually refer to any example of this supposed devotion to the law? Because all I can think of is her backstory bit where she claimed love for the country and clearly felt that way because she was adopted out of poverty and horror.

What actual Worm canon says about Miss Militia's patriotism:

No, Miss Militia said that. Like everyone in Worm (and most decent stories) she thinks that she's right.
 
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Remember that Tattletale isn't just a young girl, she is a dangerously powerful thinker with a proven record of doing a lot of damage by talking. Shutting her up is in fact needed to remove her threat. Now you can argue that there are better ways to do that than shoving a gun into her mouth but there was at least some justification.
Now this is just bullshit. I mean it's supported by what characters said in canon sure, but that didn't make it any less bullshit there as well.

Lisa did not have !Exalted bullshit social-fu abilities. Mainly because outside of specific rpg games the very concept of such is vacuous and stupid.
Nothing of Lisa's powerset makes anything she says more believable or gives her magic persuasion powers.
The ultimate hard counter to anything Lisa attempts is to just shrug and say "I don't care." Truly a terrifying power.

It's not like Miss Militia didn't know what Tattletale was going to say either, she just didn't want her hypocrisy rubbed in her face or to be exposed to others who might not be aware of it yet.

Regardless we're kind of derailing here and should probably move to the general Worm discussion thread if you want to keep talking about this.
 
Now this is just bullshit. I mean it's supported by what characters said in canon sure, but that didn't make it any less bullshit there as well.

Lisa did not have !Exalted bullshit social-fu abilities. Mainly because outside of specific rpg games the very concept of such is vacuous and stupid.
Nothing of Lisa's powerset makes anything she says more believable or gives her magic persuasion powers.
The ultimate hard counter to anything Lisa attempts is to just shrug and say "I don't care." Truly a terrifying power.

It's not like Miss Militia didn't know what Tattletale was going to say either, she just didn't want her hypocrisy rubbed in her face or to be exposed to others who might not be aware of it yet.

Regardless we're kind of derailing here and should probably move to the general Worm discussion thread if you want to keep talking about this.

Yay, not caring about anything is a perfect defense against social attack... How many people don't care about anything? Almost no one.

Saying "I don't care" only works if you mean it. And Tattletales tactics work because she can find stuff you do care about. Stop her from talking though and she isn't able to push buttons until she finds something to work with through your responses.
 
Yay, not caring about anything is a perfect defense against social attack... How many people don't care about anything? Almost no one.

Saying "I don't care" only works if you mean it. And Tattletales tactics work because she can find stuff you do care about. Stop her from talking though and she isn't able to push buttons until she finds something to work with through your responses.

None of which matters a damn because what MM was stopping her from saying was a revelation of crimes committed. Not exactly Paladin behaviour.
 
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