StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Let me ask Starcraft fans here- do you guys believe the OPINION that Starcraft one and brood war are better than Starcraft 2 and those that like Starcraft 2 are blinded by Blizzard fanboyism?
cause that is argument that is happening in Starcraft forum.
I'd say that I preferred the missions of Starcraft 2's campaigns, but the story is definitely worse compared to the original's story.

EDIT: Essentially, I view Starcraft 2 as a good demonstration of just how much bad storytelling can hurt a game that is doing a lot of things right.
 
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So to answer to @Imrix question
See, that's not my question. The Tal'Darim have a semi-coherent backstory to them, okay, whatever. My confusion is over the fact that, in-universe, they seem to turn up out of nowhere and nobody, but nobody, asks "who the hell are these psychos and where did they come from?"

I mean the Protoss kind of have a thing about being One People. The idea that there's a splinter group that just suddenly shows up in the pay of Space Satan really should get more of a reaction, but everybody just seems to take it in stride. Frikkin' Moebius Corp get more of an explanation for where they came from.
but what do you think of people PREFERRING Starcraft 2 over original starcraft? Are they just Blizzard fanboys?
There's nothing inherently wrong with liking something in spite of its flaws. Starcraft 2 has a lot of snazzy gameplay, and the campaign has other strings to its bow. "I like this," and "this is good" are a lot less related than you'd think.
 
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Let me ask Starcraft fans here- do you guys believe the OPINION that Starcraft one and brood war are better than Starcraft 2 and those that like Starcraft 2 are blinded by Blizzard fanboyism?
cause that is argument that is happening in Starcraft forum.
I'm Korean and I think the SC2 plot is utter trash. I won't begrudge anyone for liking it, and certainly the gameplay is quite solid, but Blizzard won't be receiving any money from me for the forseeable future.
 
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but what do you think of people PREFERRING Starcraft 2 over original starcraft? Are they just Blizzard fanboys?
It depends on why they prefer one to the other. If it's because Blizzard has released a new shiny and they like it without really thinking about it, then yeah maybe they are being fanboys. If they genuinely like the story and either don't see the flaws or they don't mind them, then they probably aren't fanboys.

They just have bad taste :V /jk

I mean I've only played Wings of Liberty and I have to say, even then I didn't think the story was too hot. It was a nostalgia trip and I'm not saying I think SC2 sucks, but it didn't blow me away like the original SC did. @Nyxistence reminded me in this thread why I thought the original SC was awesome and why I probably won't enjoy Heart of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void.

I have similar thoughts and feelings surrounding Diablo 3 and how disappointing that was - Diablo was always my favourite Blizzard property, with SC coming in close second (WarCraft being a verrrrry distant third). Graphically and gameplay wise D3 is better than its predecessors, but in terms of story it's like... embarrassing. And neither Diablo 1 or 2 were Shakespeare.

It just seems to me that Blizzard's storytelling has become hackneyed. What set apart StarCraft and Brood War and the original Diablo games - EDIT and WarCraft 3 now that I think about it - from a lot of their contemporaries was the downer endings and the quirky humour and a desire to overturn genre trope expectations. Now the only thing they seem to have kept a hold on is the quirky humour, and even that seems to be missing the point of the humour in the first place. The downer endings have been replaced with cringeworthy stereotypical 'And then the Good Guys won and the sun was shining' bullshit. And rather than go against type and expectations, Blizzard stories have become emblematic of them. The good guys are always good, the bad guys are unambiguously bad, there's very little in-between.
 
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@Imrix

Ah yes I agree with you on that one. That would have been a good subject to talk with Rohana (who thus would have served to something) or an occasion to make the Tal'Darim more mysterious/dangerous
 
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Not sure on the gameplay, but SC/SC:BW is one of the classics of non-RPG video game storytelling (it's no BG2 or PS:T but it's damn good), but the plot of SCII is average fanfiction at best. Not kidding, i've read fanfic takes on it that are substantially better. They should have just hired blackhole1 to do HotS and LotV.
 
Not sure on the gameplay, but SC/SC:BW is one of the classics of non-RPG video game storytelling (it's no BG2 or PS:T but it's damn good), but the plot of SCII is average fanfiction at best. Not kidding, i've read fanfic takes on it that are substantially better. They should have just hired blackhole1 to do HotS and LotV.
Yes, there are fanfics that make the story of heart of the swarm better that heart of the swarm itself. Although I would have objected to hire this author as a writer, but I just did not much like his fanfic.I would not mind if the writers were defiasstone2 (The Queen of Hearts), or A Very Thirsty Megalomaniac (Sudden Contact).
It depends on why they prefer one to the other. If it's because Blizzard has released a new shiny and they like it without really thinking about it, then yeah maybe they are being fanboys. If they genuinely like the story and either don't see the flaws or they don't mind them, then they probably aren't fanboys.

They just have bad taste :V /jk
I see flaws of history. They are not difficult to see (especially in the heart of the swarm) but in spite of them I still like the story. I am dissatisfied with flaws and wish there was a way to fix them. I just do not think that the second part of the story can not be saved. It can be saved. It just takes patience and a good writer.
The downer endings have been replaced with cringeworthy stereotypical 'And then the Good Guys won and the sun was shining' bullshit. And rather than go against type and expectations, Blizzard stories have become emblematic of them. The good guys are always good, the bad guys are unambiguously bad, there's very little in-between.
Well, not always there were very downer finals. I can name three games with downer final .warcraft 1, canonical orcs win. Diablo 1, where everything is going very badly. Starcraft Brood War, where the Queen Bitch of the Universe is winning. For comparison, we have a second of Warcraft, Diablo II, and the first Starcraft. That if do not have a good ending, then at least have bittersweet ending.

And yes, the bad guys from Blizzard have always been bad with no issues. Diablo, Orcs, the Overmind (In spite of the charm), I can continue. I do not remember ambiguous villains there. Even Kerrigan was damn evil.

Actually, I think of the AU, where at the end of Brood Wars, Kerrigan did not betray its allies and just retreated to Char. If Mengsk wants to attack her, let him come. I honestly just think remove brainwashing of the Matriarch of the Dark Templar. I did not understand at all how Kerrigan did it.

Seriously, where is there an explanation how Kerrigan found Shakuras, how she crept up to Raszagal, how she managed to brainwash one of the strongest psionic Protoss? Or are these questions remained unanswered over the 15-plus years?
 
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Well, not always there were very downer finals. I can name three games with downer final .warcraft 1, canonical orcs win. Diablo 1, where everything is going very badly. Starcraft Brood War, where the Queen Bitch of the Universe is winning. For comparison, we have a second of Warcraft, Diablo II, and the first Starcraft. That if do not have a good ending, then at least have bittersweet ending.
I count bittersweet endings as part of what I meant by downer endings. In WarCraft 2's expansion Beyond The Dark Portal, the heroes win but only by sacrificing themselves to seal the portal to Azeroth on their side. They had to remain behind in order to do so. (According to WarCraft 2 they went through another portal to who-knows-where but in WoW they remained behind - the point is, You Can't Go Home Again counts as a sacrifice) They may have 'won' but they still lose in a sense. That's everywhere in early Blizzard games - in WarCraft, as you note, Orcs are the canonical winners (not that I'm disputing this but I haven't heard this before, can you elaborate?). In WarCraft 3 the Burning Legion is defeated but only after Lordaeron (the guys you play in WC2) is wiped out and turned into zombie town. Thrall wins and the orcs don't become slaves again but only after Grom Hellscream gave his life to slay whatshisname the big fat demon. Y'know at the end of the orc campaign. The elves are decimated and more or less wiped out too. In Frozen Throne we see Arthas rise to become the Lich King and we help to put him there.

In Diablo you slay big red himself but then you slam the soul stone into your forehead for Reasons. Too bad that's just what Diablo wanted you to do, and in the second game you become the Dark Wanderer, the mortal vessel for Diablo's soul who goes around terrorising the lands of Sanctuary. Yes the heroes of D2 slay Diablo but the good hero you played in the first game is lost forever. In Lord of Destruction you do stop Baal, but not before he completely kicks the shit out of the barbarian lands and fucks with the World Stone to the point where Tyrael decides it needs to be destroyed.

In StarCraft just quickly because people have already talked about it at length - yes you beat the Confederacy but to do so you install a new dictator, it's not moving up it's moving sideways. Yes you stop the zerg but Tassadar dies and Aiur has to be abandoned anyway. In Brood War it's even worse because Kerrigan wins and despite her being a really kickass character with a satisfying arc she's still a baddie.

The point I'm making in all these examples is that the heroes only win if they do massive sacrifices (Tassadar giving up his life, the Alliance army sealing the portal back to their home, the Unnamed Hero who slams the soul stone into his forehead in a futile effort to contain the demon therein, Grom Hellscream) and sometimes they don't win, the bad guys do (Kerrigan, Arthas, Diablo). That stuff went against genre expectations and had a streak of realism in something thoroughly unreal as fantasy and sci-fi storytelling.

Now you beat the bad guys who have all become Chaotic Stupid and the second you do the sun breaks through stormy clouds and a major character waxes poetic in a faux-profound manner and if I roll my eyes any harder they'll spin out of their sockets. :V

And yes, the bad guys from Blizzard have always been bad with no issues. Diablo, Orcs, the Overmind (In spite of the charm), I can continue. I do not remember ambiguous villains there. Even Kerrigan was damn evil.
Those guys were evil but there was also ambiguity. Hell, the Orcs were only evil because they were brainwashed. Thrall wasn't evil. Under his leadership the orcs didn't do bad things either.

But what about characters like Mengsk? At the start and through most of Rebel Yell he's a charismatic rebel who makes pragmatic choices that bit by bit compromise his morals (and you're along for the ride, you help him do that - so what does that say about *you*?). At the end he takes the reins of power and becomes a dictator himself. But he wasn't 'evil' as such, he was ruthless and pragmatic and selfish but like he chose to be that, he could have chosen differently. Evil is a loaded term, and it's one that I think only really applies to supernatural characters who are intrinsically bad, like Diablo and various other demonic characters.

Here's another ambiguous character - Aldaris. He's a mentor-antagonist to the character you play in the protoss campaign. You fight him a couple of times but he never becomes evil. Misguided, yes. But from his perspective, the Dark Templar are evil because of the backstory lore of the protoss. Despite that he puts those feelings aside in order to work with Tassadar (a heretic!) and Zeratul (ZOMG even worse!) to fight the zerg. And even then he has to abandon his home and live with those he considers heretics and even then he sees his erstwhile allies listen to Kerrigan, one of those responsible for driving him out of his home. So from his perspective he has a legitimate grievance even if he's 'wrong'. Carrying on with this theme you have the UED characters who again, aren't evil. But because they're outsiders they're the bad guys to the various Koprulu Sector factions. But from their perspective they're NOT bad guys, they're the good guys.

In Diablo the demons are evil, but are Heaven and the Angels good? I mean at least in the first two games we don't really know - we know Tryael is good but that his hands are tied by the Powers That Be. You never see angels come down and help you fight any of the demons you slay. Deckard Cain said this in one of the quests in Diablo 2 (IIRC it was the end of Act Two when you slay Duriel and meet Tyrael who fills you in): 'While the motives of Hell seem straight-forwardly bent to our destruction, the motives of heaven are harder to discern.'

And then in a move that surprsed me (and one of the reasons I have hope that Blizzard might turn around on this stuff) in Diablo 3's expansion Reaper of Souls the bad guys *are* Angels. I mean, fallen angels and everything but it's still a nice step and one in which the expectations were reversed. And again, other than Tyrael, Heaven does jack shit to stop Malthael.


Seriously, where is there an explanation how Kerrigan found Shakuras, how she crept up to Raszagal, how she managed to brainwash one of the strongest psionic Protoss? Or are these questions remained unanswered over the 15-plus years?
I never got the impression that Raszagal was particularly powerful, but it's been awhile since I've played Brood War. But Kerrigan is fucking powerful as well, don't forget she was a match for Tassadar.
 
In all honesty, the biggest condemnation of this game that I can give is that I have not touched it since release day. I installed, played 5 or so missions (the intro bits + Tarsonis, I believe), listened to Amon do his Big Bad Evil Guy speech thru the Ancient Protoss chick and run away while accomplishing nothing, then realized that Fallout 4 was finished installing and went and played that.
 
Patch 3.3 will be introducing new Co-Op content and features.

Weekly Mutations will provide an optional experience to Co-Op, combining several special conditions called Mutators into a single map. Mutators can vary from fighting a permanently cloaked enemy, lava spewing from the ground, to tornadoes blasting your units a short distance out of position. Anyone familiar with Left 4 Dead 2's Mutations will find it similar in concept.

Two examples provided: Train of the Dead, and Time Lock.

Train of the Dead will take place on Oblivion Express, with three Mutators:

Walking Infested: Any enemy killed will spawn infested terrans; the more health the unit had, the more infested spawned. All three variations will appear, so be prepared for Aberrations and infested marines as well.

Outbreak: Waves of infested will assault your base periodically, on top of the standard assault waves.

Darkness: Fog of War is replaced with replenishing darkness; approaching trains' starting points will be hidden from you, as well as the assault directions.

Time Lock takes place on Lock and Load, with the following three Mutators, all based around speed:

Speed Freaks: Enemies will have much greater speed than usual, so enemy assaults on locks will strike very quickly.

Time Warp: Time Warps will be placed periodically that will slow your forces down considerably and will require avoidance.

Mag-nificent: Mag Mines from the Terran space mission in Heart of the Swarm will be placed on the map. Activating them will require dodging before they blow your army up.

Completing Weekly Mutations will award a bonus experience bounty, stacking cumulatively as you increase the difficulty. Completing on Hard will award the experience bounty for Casual, Normal, and Hard, and completing on Brutal will award the bounty for Casual, Normal, Hard and Brutal.

So what to do with all the bonus experience if your heroes are already at level 15? That's what the new Mastery Levels are for.


Experience beyond level 15 will be used to gain up to 90 Mastery Levels per hero with a corresponding Mastery Point. Mastery Points are used to improve up to six parameters for each Commander, split into 3 Power Sets, ending up with two parameters in one Power Set.

This is important because the Mastery Points will be evenly distributed across the three Power Sets as you level up, so you can't simply dump everything into a single parameter as you level. Even then, with a maximum of 30 Mastery Points per Power Set, you won't be able to max out both parameters in that Power Set, so prioritization depending on the mission is required.

Examples include:

For Artanis, increasing Shield Overload's Duration and Shield Amount versus Speed Increases for warped units (I think this is attack and move speed), increasing Warp Charge regeneration (how long until the next Warp) versus Guardian Shell Life and Shield restoration, and Chrono Boost efficiency versus Initial and Maximum Shield of Adun Energy.

For Swann, it will be increasing Concentrated Beam width and damage versus Combat Drop duration and life, decreasing Immortality Protocal cost and cooldown duration versus increasing Structure Health, and decreasing Vespene Drone cost versus Laser Drill production time.


In addition, while not formally announced yet, the next upcoming Co-Op commander will be Abathur.
 
Time Lock takes place on Lock and Load, with the following three Mutators, all based around speed:

Speed Freaks: Enemies will have much greater speed than usual, so enemy assaults on locks will strike very quickly.

Time Warp: Time Warps will be placed periodically that will slow your forces down considerably and will require avoidance.

Mag-nificent: Mag Mines from the Terran space mission in Heart of the Swarm will be placed on the map. Activating them will require dodging before they blow your army up.
*Winces because that mission is hard enough as it is on brutal*
 
Abathur borrowed Mend from Kerrigan and modified it into what seems to be a area cast heal that will also heal mechs and buildings.

Also looks like he's getting Vipers.
 
Abathur details are now out.


Abathur's ground army consists of the Roach (seems to be Abathur's Zergling, it costs no vespene, see level 1), Ravager, Swarm Queen, Swarm Host and the Brutalisk. Really mixing things up, however, is the return of the SC1 Mutalisk and its Guardian and Devourer evolutions, accompanied by the Viper (available Level 8) and the Leviathan.

Also the other Commander ability is to drop his HotS Toxic Nests, which provide Creep and more Biomass drops if it kills an enemy.

Level Progression said:
1 Biomass Harvester: Abathur's units gain increased life, attack speed, and energy regeneration by collecting Biomass from fallen enemies. Roaches do not cost vespene gas. Larvae spawn at an increased rate.

2 Ultimate Evolution: Unlock the ability for ground units with 100 stacks of Biomass to evolve into Brutalisks. Air units with 100 stacks of Biomass evolve into Leviathans.

3 Virulent Nests: Enemies damaged by Toxic Nests drop 100% additional Biomass. Toxic Nests can not be targeted by the enemy.

4 Roach Warren Upgrade Cache:Unlocks the following upgrades at the Roach Warren and Greater Roach Warren:

Roaches gain +3 armor when under 50% life.
Increase the damage of the Ravager's Corrosive Bile ability by 20.

5 Improved Mend:Mend can store up to 2 charges and its cooldown is reduced by 30 seconds.

6 Evolution Chamber Upgrade Cache:Unlocks the following upgrades at the Evolution Chamber:

Allow Hatcheries, Lairs and Hives to birth two Swarm Queens simultaneously.
Increases the amount healed by the Swarm Queen's Rapid Transfusion ability by 10 and allows it to heal both biological and mechanical targets.

7 Biomass Recovery: When killed, your units have a 50% chance to drop all of their Biomass.

8 New Unit: Viper:Flying caster. Able to manipulate battlefield conditions. Can use Parasitic Bomb, Consume, Blinding Cloud, and Abduct abilities.

9 Infestation Pit Upgrade Cache: Unlocks the following upgrades at the Infestation Pit:

Unlock the Swarm Hosts's Deep Tunnel ability, allowing it to quickly burrow to a target location.
Unlock the Viper's Paralytic Barbs ability, which increases the stun duration of Abduct.

10 Symbiote: Brutalisks and Leviathans gain Symbiotes that follow them, attacking enemies and protecting their host with the Carapace ability.

11 Spire Upgrade Cache: Unlocks the following upgrades at the Spire and Greater Spire:

Increase the Guardian's attack range.
Enable the Devourer's attacks to deal area damage.
Upgrade the Mutalisk's attacks to deal 100% bonus damage to armored units.

12 Mutagenic Potential: Ravager, Guardian, Devourer morph times and resource costs reduced by 50%

13 Locust Injection: Enemy units have a chance to spawn friendly Locusts upon death.

14 Roach Evolution: Vile: Upgrades Abathur's Roaches to the Vile Strain.

Assault unit. Regenerates life quickly while burrowed. Attacks debilitate the target, slowing its attack and movement speeds.

15 Biotic Leech: Abathur's units heal themselves for 1% of the damage they deal per stack of Biomass they possess.
 
Patch is out with Abathur, Mutations and Mastery. First Mutation is Train of the Dead.
Train of the Dead will take place on Oblivion Express, with three Mutators:

Walking Infested: Any enemy killed will spawn infested terrans; the more health the unit had, the more infested spawned. All three variations will appear, so be prepared for Aberrations and infested marines as well.

Outbreak: Waves of infested will assault your base periodically, on top of the standard assault waves.

Darkness: Fog of War is replaced with replenishing darkness; approaching trains' starting points will be hidden from you, as well as the assault directions.
 
New Mutation "First Strike" takes place on Chain of Ascension. Amon's stolen Swann's Laser Drill (don't worry, he got a new one) and will fire upon anything in his sight.

First Strike
With a powerful laser drill at his disposal, nothing is beyond Amon's reach. If he can see you, he can hit you. Charge in, and wipe him out.

Long Range
Enemy units and strucutres have increased weapon and vision range.

Shortsighted
Player units and structures have reduced vision range.

Laser Drill
An enemy Laser Drill constantly attacks players units within enemy vision.

EDIT: If you feel up to it, the Laser Drill is destroyable and situated at the north eastern base. You can use Raynor's Hyperion and Drop Pods to Deep Strike and destroy it (watch for defenses), reducing the difficulty of the encounter.
 
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New Mutation: Time Lock.
Time Lock takes place on Lock and Load, with the following three Mutators, all based around speed:

Speed Freaks: Enemies will have much greater speed than usual, so enemy assaults on locks will strike very quickly.

Time Warp: Time Warps will be placed periodically that will slow your forces down considerably and will require avoidance.

Mag-nificent: Mag Mines from the Terran space mission in Heart of the Swarm will be placed on the map. Activating them will require dodging before they blow your army up.
 
Latest Mutation, Bad Weather takes place on Rifts to Korhal and features only two mutators, but they look like a slight doozy.
Amon's forces tear through reality and make landfall across Augustgrad as tornadoes rampage throughout the city. Can you weather the storm and close the rifts before it's too late?

Void Rifts: Void rifts periodically appear in random locations and spawn enemy units until destroyed.

Twister: Tornadoes move across the map, damaging and knocking back player units in their path.
 
The next Co-Op mission in an upcoming patch will be 'The Vermillion Problem'.

This map will be featuring similar mechanics to the Devil's Playground from Wings of Liberty. Lava rises periodically, and the goal is to harvest 20 xenon crystals before the planet explodes. Xenon crystals will be mined immediately without having to wait, and will extend the explosion timer once the crystals have been deposited.


For the bonus objective, an Ash Worm from the Swarm Host evolution mission in Heart of the Swarm will surface while the lava level is high. Kill it, but watch for its breath.

Also, here's the map layout. Commanders are probably going to start out at the top left, and the crystal drop-off point is likely the purplish-blue circle near there.

 
Nova Covert Ops Mission Pack 2 has been confirmed to be released 2nd August.



The Mission Pack purchase page in the Battle.net shop has also been updated with a description for the two remaining Mission Packs.

Mission pack 2

The conspiracy against Emperor Valerian takes a dark turn as you and your crew race to stop a vicious zerg attack before thousands of lives are lost.



Mission pack 3

With no alternatives left, you must make sacrifices to ensure the future of the Terran Dominion.
 
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