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Star Wars the Clone Wars: A Padawan's Tale (A CK2/Adventure Quest in the Clone Wars) Complete.

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Dermon said:
I might be a little bit hesitant to proclaim the imminent end of the order there at the end of your paragraph. Might be a bit too inciting.
Could be better to go with an implied metaphor, like: "In resisting change, we have become brittle, and that which is brittle stands in danger of shattering."
Seems a bit less confrontational and more 'sagely,' which might go down well with the council.
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No fence sitting. No, "the Order is not broken, even though I am saying the Order is broken". No avoiding confrontation to eat all the cakes when you can only have one slice.

Ugh, I don't want another fence sitting chosen. Fence sitting is almost always chosen. If you can have a harem the questors go for every woman with more than one sentence of dialogue. I got issues with fence-sitting okay.

I got nothing else, so I'm casting my vote on this:

[X] "I am of the opinion Anakin, and the padawans, voice a valid request in regards to the Jedi Order. The Order has clutched, with a death grip, onto tradition. The Russan Reformation was necessary in a different political climate from the current climate where the reformation has become chains enslaving the Order. Fifty percent of donations as taxation makes the Order ineffective, compared to a decrease in that tax. The fact the Order has done nothing substantial about slavery in the Republic, speaks volumes of how ineffective we have become. The war should have opened the Order's eyes to the galaxy in a way that staying in the Order's luxury never could. The students know more now about the galaxy, and how blind the jedi of the past thousand years have been to the chains of the Republic. If no reforms are made then this is the end of the Jedi Order. Masters, that's what I'd like to say before things begin."

Key points for those willing to vote.
-The thread seems to be willing to choose Anakin and the padawans side.
 
[X] "I am of the opinion Anakin, and the padawans, voice a valid request in regards to the Jedi Order. The Order has clutched, with a death grip, onto tradition. The Russan Reformation was necessary in a different political climate from the current climate where the reformation has become chains enslaving the Order. Fifty percent of donations as taxation makes the Order ineffective, compared to a decrease in that tax. The fact the Order has done nothing substantial about slavery in the Republic, speaks volumes of how ineffective we have become. The war should have opened the Order's eyes to the galaxy in a way that staying in the Order's luxury never could. The students know more now about the galaxy, and how blind the jedi of the past thousand years have been to the chains of the Republic. If no reforms are made then this is the end of the Jedi Order. Masters, that's what I'd like to say before things begin."
 
One thing we should probably also highlight just how unprepared the Jedi order is for the current situation. Don't remember how the first battle of Geonosis went, but that could be a point in our favor, because things have changed, and the Jedi order has not been adapting in turn, which could easily put the whole order at risk, ESPECIALLY with the Chancellor trying to tie the Jedi even more tightly around the Republic, and therefore Palpatine...
 
[X] "I am of the opinion Anakin, and the padawans, voice a valid request in regards to the Jedi Order. The Order has clutched, with a death grip, onto tradition. The Russan Reformation was necessary in a different political climate from the current climate where the reformation has become chains enslaving the Order. Fifty percent of donations as taxation makes the Order ineffective, compared to a decrease in that tax. The fact the Order has done nothing substantial about slavery in the Republic, speaks volumes of how ineffective we have become. The war should have opened the Order's eyes to the galaxy in a way that staying in the Order's luxury never could. The students know more now about the galaxy, and how blind the jedi of the past thousand years have been to the chains of the Republic. If no reforms are made then this is the end of the Jedi Order. Masters, that's what I'd like to say before things begin."
 
[X] "I am of the opinion Anakin, and the padawans, voice a valid request in regards to the Jedi Order. The Order has clutched, with a death grip, onto tradition. The Russan Reformation was necessary in a different political climate from the current climate where the reformation has become chains enslaving the Order. Fifty percent of donations as taxation makes the Order ineffective, compared to a decrease in that tax. The fact the Order has done nothing substantial about slavery in the Republic, speaks volumes of how ineffective we have become. The war should have opened the Order's eyes to the galaxy in a way that staying in the Order's luxury never could. The students know more now about the galaxy, and how blind the Jedi of the past thousand years have been to the chains of the Republic. If no reforms are made then this is the end of the Jedi Order. Masters, that's what I'd like to say before things begin."

None of that pussyfooting around we need to make a concise statement
Also by making that slave statement makes me excited since Anakin is living proof and he will have an even stronger reaction than he already did
 
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[X] "I am of the opinion Anakin, and the padawans, voice a valid request in regards to the Jedi Order. The Order has clutched, with a death grip, onto tradition. The Russan Reformation was necessary in a different political climate from the current climate where the reformation has become chains enslaving the Order. Fifty percent of donations as taxation makes the Order ineffective, compared to a decrease in that tax. The fact the Order has done nothing substantial about slavery in the Republic, speaks volumes of how ineffective we have become. The war should have opened the Order's eyes to the galaxy in a way that staying in the Order's luxury never could. The students know more now about the galaxy, and how blind the Jedi of the past thousand years have been to the chains of the Republic. If no reforms are made then this is the end of the Jedi Order. Masters, that's what I'd like to say before things begin."
 
[X] "I am of the opinion Anakin, and the padawans, voice a valid request in regards to the Jedi Order. The Order has clutched, with a death grip, onto tradition. The Russan Reformation was necessary in a different political climate from the current climate where the reformation has become chains enslaving the Order. Fifty percent of donations as taxation makes the Order ineffective, compared to a decrease in that tax. The fact the Order has done nothing substantial about slavery in the Republic, speaks volumes of how ineffective we have become. The war should have opened the Order's eyes to the galaxy in a way that staying in the Order's luxury never could. The students know more now about the galaxy, and how blind the Jedi of the past thousand years have been to the chains of the Republic. If no reforms are made then this is the end of the Jedi Order. Masters, that's what I'd like to say before things begin."

Better than my own ideas, at least!
 
I'm not sure leading with the tax thing is a good move. The Council already thinks Laron is too close to his company, this may reinforce that the corporate mindset and lifestyle may be rubbing off on him.

Maybe Laron should mention how his first master died on Geonosis and dozens more Jedi have lost masters, students, and friends. Maybe lean into how The War has pretty much ripped away the Galaxy & Republic's veneer of civility and justice exposing the corruption for everyone in the order to see.

Something like:
"An entire generation of Padawans, Initiates, and Knights have lost their innocence. Now they're, I don't want to say lashing out, but they see problems everywhere and they're trying to fix everything themselves because the Council and Republic have failed them."
 
[X] "I am of the opinion Anakin, and the padawans, voice a valid request in regards to the Jedi Order. The Order has clutched, with a death grip, onto tradition. The Russan Reformation was necessary in a different political climate from the current climate where the reformation has become chains enslaving the Order. Fifty percent of donations as taxation makes the Order ineffective, compared to a decrease in that tax. The fact the Order has done nothing substantial about slavery in the Republic, speaks volumes of how ineffective we have become. The war should have opened the Order's eyes to the galaxy in a way that staying in the Order's luxury never could. The students know more now about the galaxy, and how blind the jedi of the past thousand years have been to the chains of the Republic. If no reforms are made then this is the end of the Jedi Order. Masters, that's what I'd like to say before things begin."
-[X] Hold the tax point for later in the conversation/negotiation.
 
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[X] "I am of the opinion Anakin, and the padawans, voice a valid request in regards to the Jedi Order. The Order has clutched, with a death grip, onto tradition. The Russan Reformation was necessary in a different political climate from the current climate where the reformation has become chains enslaving the Order. Fifty percent of donations as taxation makes the Order ineffective, compared to a decrease in that tax. The fact the Order has done nothing substantial about slavery in the Republic, speaks volumes of how ineffective we have become. The war should have opened the Order's eyes to the galaxy in a way that staying in the Order's luxury never could. The students know more now about the galaxy, and how blind the jedi of the past thousand years have been to the chains of the Republic. If no reforms are made then this is the end of the Jedi Order. Masters, that's what I'd like to say before things begin."
-[X] Hold the tax point for later in the conversation/negotiation.
 
two things I would say

[ ] Now that things Have come so far change will happen no matter when the only question if the change starts here and now with traditionalists to temper what they believe to be incorrect and try to prove it or if all those who want change leave and create a new force sect with few traditionalists to watch those are changing from accidently falling without anyone to watch them

[ ] Tradition is both a guide and shackles as those Traditions were made to suit the beliefs and reality of when they are made and the passing of time Traditions made in a time of war will work well in war but not in peace those made in peace may be shattered with the necessity's of war. Isn't that why the Jedi of today are different of the Jedi of the time of before the reformation because what the Jedi believed they would need to do was different then what the Jedi of but a little while ago needed to do now we must change of the times we live in not mean we must change like they did for the new peace they lived in.

cant right so someone else can fix this up but I believe you can understand what I am saying.
 
Marlin said:
No fence sitting. No, "the Order is not broken, even though I am saying the Order is broken". No avoiding confrontation to eat all the cakes when you can only have one slice.

Ugh, I don't want another fence sitting chosen. Fence sitting is almost always chosen. If you can have a harem the questors go for every woman with more than one sentence of dialogue. I got issues with fence-sitting okay.
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With all due respect, I disagree. I don't think this is fence sitting. Instead, I think it's using proper diplomatic language.
I don't want to say anything substantially different than what you've said, but I think that presenting a plain and bare threat to the council isn't likely to make them agree with everything else we say. Especially with said language coming from a Padawan.

I would be damn worried that language like that would only encourage them to drop the hammer and end the standoff violently, and we don't know right now if that's a fight we can win. Moreover, even if we do win, it's a fight that does irreparable damage to the order, the Republic, and our friends and family.

To that end, here's my submission:

[X] Plan: Diplomatic Approach
-[X] "I think the requests being made by Anakin and the padawans are both valid and reasonable. Many of the traditions and customs of the Order, far from serving us, have become chains that bind us. In its time, the Ruusan Reformation was necessary, but the galaxy has not stood still. By refusing to adapt, the Order has surrendered much of its power to do good. The continued existence of slavery in the Republic, and our inability to address it, is an insult to the values that we hold dear. Many of the strictures placed upon us only isolate us from those we wish to serve and protect, as well as from what makes us the people we are."
-[X] "The Order has trusted the Council. It has followed the Council and the Republic into conflict. An entire generation of Padawans, Initiates, and Knights have lost their friends, their family members, and their innocence. We are asking for the Council to place the same trust in us. In refusing necessary change, the Order has become brittle. Unfortunately, that which is brittle is in danger of shattering."

A thanks to @chriswriter90 and @Lonely_Samurai for their suggestions.
 
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Dermon said:
With all due respect, I disagree. I don't think this is fence sitting. Instead, I think it's using proper diplomatic language.
I don't want to say anything substantially different than what you've said, but I think that presenting a plain and bare threat to the council isn't likely to make them agree with everything else we say. Especially with said language coming from a Padawan.

I would be damn worried that language like that would only encourage them to drop the hammer and end the standoff violently, and we don't know right now if that's a fight we can win. Moreover, even if we do win, it's a fight that does irreparable damage to the order, the Republic, and our friends and family.

To that end, here's my submission:

[X] Plan: Diplomatic Approach
-[X] "I think the requests being made by Anakin and the padawans are both valid and reasonable. Many of the traditions and customs of the Order, far from serving us, have become chains that bind us. In its time, the Ruusan Reformation was necessary, but the galaxy has not stood still. By refusing to adapt, the Order has surrendered much of its power to do good. The continued existence of slavery in the Republic, and our inability to address it, is an insult to the values that we hold dear. Many of the strictures placed upon us only isolate us from those we wish to serve and protect, as well as from what makes us the people we are."
-[X] "The Order has trusted the Council. It has followed the Council and the Republic into conflict. An entire generation of Padawans, Initiates, and Knights have lost their friends, their family members, and their innocence. We are asking for the Council to place the same trust in us. In refusing necessary change, the Order has become brittle. Unfortunately, that which is brittle is in danger of shattering."

A thanks to @chriswriter90 and @Lonely_Samurai for their suggestions.
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You are sugar-coating the confrontation to eat the cake for no consequences. That's why I used the term "fence-sitting". Pick a side and stick with that side without going politician of maybe you said yes, maybe you said no, at that time, but meant this, at the time. Which is supposed to be equivalent to this, but meant that.

The confrontation is unavoidable the moment the protagonist chose a side. If the Masters react with violence from the protagonist speaking, when asking the protagonist to speak. The Order is truly broken. This is meant to be the opening of discussion and talk about a weighty topic with severe consequences if not addressed.

If anything, by sugar coating the new generation of the order leaving the Order, or getting cut down by the Masters in a scuffle, to avoid a confrontation. Events are only escalating to put the protagonist into spokesman for Anakin and the Padawans.

I'm really, really, bad at these multiple choice options where the write-ins are up to the players. Been invested in a choice before, then got burned by the choice going differently than how I imagined because the wording was off, or the choice was just unintelligent but I wanted my imaginary cake.
 
Marlin said:
You are sugar-coating the confrontation to eat the cake for no consequences. That's why I used the term "fence-sitting". Pick a side and stick with that side without going politician of maybe you said yes, maybe you said no, at that time, but meant this, at the time. Which is supposed to be equivalent to this, but meant that.

The confrontation is unavoidable the moment the protagonist chose a side. If the Masters react with violence from the protagonist speaking, when asking the protagonist to speak. The Order is truly broken. This is meant to be the opening of discussion and talk about a weighty topic with severe consequences if not addressed.

If anything, by sugar coating the new generation of the order leaving the Order, or getting cut down by the Masters in a scuffle, to avoid a confrontation. Events are only escalating to put the protagonist into spokesman for Anakin and the Padawans.
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Unfortunately, I think you're missing a bit of the point here. What we're doing here, what this whole protest or uprising is, is inherently political. Using different language and 'sugar-coating' isn't trying to avoid consequences. It's instead about trying to make us and by extension, our faction, look like the reasonable side of the debate. Opening with what could be seen as an ultimatum - "Accept the changes we demand, or it's the end of the Order," while it may be accurate, is no way to get your opponent to agree with you. Perhaps more importantly, it also alienates others who might otherwise back your position. Sugar-coating the medicine can indeed make it go down more easily.

Additionally, by opening with an ultimatum, we end the conversation and negotiation immediately. People generally don't react well when someone comes in and says, "You have to do this, or you're going to regret it." The Council still has enough power to call our bluff and say, "No, fuck you," if we push them too hard. I would consider that a failure state for negotiations.

I understand that you don't like politics and would prefer to speak frankly. I get it, it feels like premature compromise and fence-sitting. But unless we're ready to start the revolution here and now and start putting up barricades, this is politics.
 
We should probably be careful about talking about the donation situation, since it could open us up for the traditionalists to say that we are being corrupted by our position as CEO, both to undermine our position and 'prove' their point...
 
I'm not able to properly write one, but I'd start from asking Master Yoda how old he was. If he always looked like this. Walked like this. Talked like this. Or if he'd grown and changed since his childhood several hundred years ago. Ask if he loves the order and wishes it well. Ask why he thinks the order shouldn't get the same ability to grow and change.

The Jedi haven't been involved in a war like this in a thousand years. Maybe the needs of the order in peace are different from its needs in war.

Essentially, ask them questions that lead them to think about the issues. "Masters, I am a Padawan who knows he has much to learn. I have a few questions..." And go full Socratic from there.
 
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What we should be trying to do (especially with the success Laron has accomplished) is persuade people to back off, calm down and talk things out. Stating that we're on the Padawans' side straight off the bat is only going to get the Council to dig their heels in even more - they will see us as an opponent, and people are a lot less likely to listen to their opponents. We want to be seen as reasonable so that the Council will listen to us - Laron is a Sentinel rather than a Consular but he's been taught by Obi-wan Kenobi, The Negotiator himself, so we can talk this out.

[X] Plan Everybody Calm Down
-[X] "Yes I do have something to say, Master Kenobi. I think that the Council is holding a primed thermal detonator in its hands, and it needs to be handled carefully. A thermal detonator can be immensely destructive, but its explosion can be precisely channelled with the right focus. The Jedi Code established by Master Odan-Urr states 'There is no passion, there is serenity,' yet right now passions are running extremely high, and not just among the Padawans and younglings. Knight Pong Krell referred to the gathered crowd, including Master Skywalker, as traitors. This is not something that frightened and traumatised Padawans need to hear!"
-[X] "Does it surprise you that the Padawans are upset, Masters of the Order? That they are emotional? That they are acting in a way that could be seen as irrational? Many of the Padawans of the Order have commanded troops in combat, fought, killed, and lost loved ones before they are old enough to buy a drink at a cantina. My first Master died at the First Battle of Geonosis, I've led clone troopers onto the field of battle, have killed and have nearly been killed, and I am only fifteen standard years old. This is the greatest war to afflict the galaxy since the signing of the Ruusan Reformations a thousand years ago, with the fate of the Republic at stake. Emotions are as much a part of a sentient being as blood or breath - if they weren't then our training wouldn't teach us how to control them. Padawans learn at the side of their Masters, and many times that learning isn't easy - it's part of the reason why graduating a Padawan to the rank of Jedi Knight is a requirement for a Jedi to be named a Master. We appreciate the guidance of our Masters and the Council but we have to walk the path of learning on our own. Sometimes that path is smooth, but there are plenty of times when we wind up stumbling around or taking a faceplant on the ground."
-[X] "That's what those Padawans are doing downstairs. They're not rebels or traitors - they're seeking knowledge just like a Padawan is expected to! They have seen the galaxy outside the Temple, and they've seen it's different from what they have been taught. There's an old saying 'as constant as the stars in the sky,' but the stars move in their orbits. The galaxy has moved on since the Ruusan Reformations but the Jedi Order has not. The last words I heard when I left this chamber as the Council approved Master Skywalker's marriage was Master Yoda saying 'Stagnant we have become,' but with that decision we started to break free of the chains of stagnation that bind us. The Padawans see this and feel that other things can be changed to bring the Order into the present. They still respect you - all they ask is that you show them respect by giving their arguments some serious consideration."


* Pointing out that Pong Krell is not a Master (his Wookieepedia page mentions he's never graduated an apprentice to Jedi Knight, which is a requirement to be a Master) yet he's presuming to speak for the Council.
* Trying to emphasise that the Padawans aren't rebelling against the Order itself but the way they go about things. Pointing out that it doesn't have to be adversarial
* Rather than accusing the Council of the problems the Padawans are lashing out at, emphasising the opportunity the Council has to change things, and that they've already started down that path by legitimising Anakin's marriage.
 
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Chaeronea said:
* Pointing out that Pong Krell is not a Master (his Wookieepedia page mentions he's never graduated an apprentice to Jedi Knight, which is a requirement to be a Master) yet he's presuming to speak for the Council.
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One thing I am going to say. Krell is speaking for the more traditionalist members of the order, not for the council itself.

he is also speaking out of turn, but no one has the courage to stop him at the moment because a very angry Anakin Skywalker is in the room and the council is focusing more on him, rather then the man they should actually be focusing on.

If they actually held everyone to the standards of meetings in the council.
 
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Magoose said:
One thing I am going to say. He is speaking for the more traditionalist members of the order, not for the council itself.

he is also speaking out of turn but no one has the courage to stop him at the moment when a very angry Anakin Skywalker is in the room.
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Laron is speaking out of turn? I thought Kenobi asked for him to speak.
 
Magoose said:
No Krell was. in fact his very presence there violates several rules.

Laron is not.
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I thought so. That's part of the reason why I had Laron mentioning his presence and his actions to the Council. It's pretty obvious that Krell is not speaking for the Council but this way Laron isn't directly calling him out.

And for an added dose of irony, the first character I ever created for the Star Wars D6 RPG released in the 1990s was a human pilot named Damon Krell :) Nothing like the canon character, for which I am very grateful.
 
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