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Situation Foxtrot (SAO/Foxhole) [COMPLETE]

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Roll the dice enough times and you'll get a 1. But... I think Hooker is not going to fucking listen, so we have to still be here and help him unfuck everything, and then he'll probably want to go for Rime but whatever.

[X] New Plan: Play for time. That gunboat artillery is powerful, but if its anything like the mortars you're used to, it's also inaccurate. If you keep moving so that they can't correct their shots, and keep running anti-tank on the coastline as a threat, and the gunboats will either have to focus fire the bunker base you're getting re-fortified to accept the next load of troops at, or stop Zairman from harrasing their lines. It's a dicey plan, but it's also the one that saves the most people- you think.
 
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[X] New Plan: Play for time. That gunboat artillery is powerful, but if its anything like the mortars you're used to, it's also inaccurate. If you keep moving so that they can't correct their shots, and keep running anti-tank on the coastline as a threat, and the gunboats will either have to focus fire the bunker base you're getting re-fortified to accept the next load of troops at, or stop Zairman from harrasing their lines. It's a dicey plan, but it's also the one that saves the most people- you think.
 
[X] Very new plan: Tell Hooker to waive off. You've got rank on him, you're the woman on the ground, and most importantly you can put Kitsuragi on the line to make very sure Hooker understands this is a dead letter. If he's in-hex, your King Spire's radio will reach him, if he's not then the radio sets at Quietus can. You don't know how many dead bodies are on the beach right now, but the number is too damn many for his "brigade" to stand a chance in hell of engaging Rime, even if you called Asuna right now and told her to start pounding.
 
[X] Very new plan: Tell Hooker to waive off. You've got rank on him, you're the woman on the ground, and most importantly you can put Kitsuragi on the line to make very sure Hooker understands this is a dead letter. If he's in-hex, your King Spire's radio will reach him, if he's not then the radio sets at Quietus can. You don't know how many dead bodies are on the beach right now, but the number is too damn many for his "brigade" to stand a chance in hell of engaging Rime, even if you called Asuna right now and told her to start pounding.

I can't in good conscience choose anything else, and while this will absolutely fuck Hooker he'll simply have to take it because fuck him, he did this. I don't think there's much of a chance he can refuse us, not because he's all that sensible but because we hold all the cards: If we take the survivors here and go then his OP is fucked no matter and he knows it. The consequences here will be one hell of a shitstorm afterwards as we assblast Hooker over not very secure comms, but saving people takes priority.
 
[X] New Plan: Play for time.

Between the other two, this reads to me as the least bad option. Old plan seems like a recipe to have the second wave be killed pretty bad cause doing this again seems ill advised once colonial reinforcments arrive. 2New4U Plan might work, but I dont like the odds and im willing to try and hold the position for the second wave.
 
So, we're not doing Old Plan. On the one hand, we could try and hold here, and possibly help the next wave to drop in the beach, but that's provided they don't have more navy vessels that we can't hit interdict the new landing, and Very New Plan hinges on Hooker listening, which is not likely, and listen to Orr in particular, which is even lower as a possibility, but then the next wave may get clapped if they do make it through whatever it is that is in the water for the Greens should we pull back and have no plans to return.

Fuck
 
[X] Very new plan: Tell Hooker to waive off. You've got rank on him, you're the woman on the ground, and most importantly you can put Kitsuragi on the line to make very sure Hooker understands this is a dead letter. If he's in-hex, your King Spire's radio will reach him, if he's not then the radio sets at Quietus can. You don't know how many dead bodies are on the beach right now, but the number is too damn many for his "brigade" to stand a chance in hell of engaging Rime, even if you called Asuna right now and told her to start pounding.

We got the ability to re-establish comms that apparently Hooker didn't bring any back ups for. Let's actually use them.
 
[X] New Plan: Play for time. That gunboat artillery is powerful, but if its anything like the mortars you're used to, it's also inaccurate. If you keep moving so that they can't correct their shots, and keep running anti-tank on the coastline as a threat, and the gunboats will either have to focus fire the bunker base you're getting re-fortified to accept the next load of troops at, or stop Zairman from harrasing their lines. It's a dicey plan, but it's also the one that saves the most people- you think.
 
[X] New Plan: Play for time. That gunboat artillery is powerful, but if its anything like the mortars you're used to, it's also inaccurate. If you keep moving so that they can't correct their shots, and keep running anti-tank on the coastline as a threat, and the gunboats will either have to focus fire the bunker base you're getting re-fortified to accept the next load of troops at, or stop Zairman from harrasing their lines. It's a dicey plan, but it's also the one that saves the most people- you think.
 
Changed my mind. Fuck this, I don't want to keep pushing the luck and mission creeping.

[X] Very new plan: Tell Hooker to waive off. You've got rank on him, you're the woman on the ground, and most importantly you can put Kitsuragi on the line to make very sure Hooker understands this is a dead letter. If he's in-hex, your King Spire's radio will reach him, if he's not then the radio sets at Quietus can. You don't know how many dead bodies are on the beach right now, but the number is too damn many for his "brigade" to stand a chance in hell of engaging Rime, even if you called Asuna right now and told her to start pounding.
 
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Derpmind said:
It's about four hours. Not the easiest amount of time to hold, but we've already gone overnight just to get here. Four more hours is manageable, and then we'll have (some kind of) reinforcements to help us. More importantly, if Orr thinks this is the plan that saves the most people, we have to try it. We can replace everything else, but we can't replace anyone who hits permadeath.
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Yeah, that's my main problem with the Very New Plan, the time frame. I'm not sure that 4 hours is enough time for the message to travel from us, to Hooker, then from Hooker down the chain in order to actually call off the attack. Operations have inertia, and even if Hooker is willing to immediately see reason and call off the attack (fat chance) that's still not much time for the command to trickle down the chain. It's quite possible that attempting to call off the next wave will result in parts of the wave attacking unsupported, without realizing that the operation was called off.

[X] New Plan: Play for time. That gunboat artillery is powerful, but if its anything like the mortars you're used to, it's also inaccurate. If you keep moving so that they can't correct their shots, and keep running anti-tank on the coastline as a threat, and the gunboats will either have to focus fire the bunker base you're getting re-fortified to accept the next load of troops at, or stop Zairman from harrasing their lines. It's a dicey plan, but it's also the one that saves the most people- you think.
 
Time to stir the hornet's nest!

FC Error said:
>Multiple waves
>without cross-hex radios

Hooker what the fuck
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This is more "Navy, what the fuck" rather than just Hooker. He's enabling Von Klaes, and that guy- while capable- is very much used to considering the materiel value of the operation first and foremost. Traditionally for a Major and Permanent Naval Invasion like this, you'd do it in three waves: first wave with push-guns to open up the beachhead, second wave with battle barges to guard the White Whale, third wave to bring any task-specific gear and more general resupply for the Whale and to get a CV in if the beach is viable.

LuciDreamer said:
Look, I know Option C is probably the good, responsible plan, but Option C also lays the blame on the operation's failure squarely on Orr. Since, you know. She'll be the one who told everyone to go home. Nobody likes the messenger with bad news, even if she's objectively correct.
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As mentioned on one of the discords, who blames Orr versus everyone else depends on who's talking. The Navy wouldn't be happy about an operation scrub, but does understand shit happens- and more importantly, it would quickly devolve into Orr versus Hooker on the status of the operation. The Logistics Union, though, as an example of "other parties" that are involved, will 100% blame Orr to the hilt because, well, Orr. They don't like her, for obvious reasons.

Inertial said:
Old plan does not commit, it's waffling back and forth under fire until we all bleed out.
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More like it commits to a fallback posture. Working out of Wraith's Gate, she can decide the relative economy of going back into the breech and the hostile sea, or if pressure is too strong she can fall back into her own lines in good order. If need be, Asuna can absolutely level Ulysses- it'll just cripple the 15e's artillery park to do so due to shell and manpower exhaustion. It would involve taking heat re-breaking the Juliette connection, but they can't try and get it up to Tier 2 with the risk of Zairman's armor this close to them.

Derpmind said:
It's about four hours. Not the easiest amount of time to hold, but we've already gone overnight just to get here. Four more hours is manageable, and then we'll have (some kind of) reinforcements to help us. More importantly, if Orr thinks this is the plan that saves the most people, we have to try it. We can replace everything else, but we can't replace anyone who hits permadeath.
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Four hours is a pretty important amount of hours. It's an hour and a half to make the trip one way, plus an hour to rearm and refit. That's not a short trip, and more importantly that's the length of a naval duty shift. That's going to be important, if anyone in the chain needs to shift change.
 
[X] New Plan: Play for time. That gunboat artillery is powerful, but if its anything like the mortars you're used to, it's also inaccurate. If you keep moving so that they can't correct their shots, and keep running anti-tank on the coastline as a threat, and the gunboats will either have to focus fire the bunker base you're getting re-fortified to accept the next load of troops at, or stop Zairman from harrasing their lines. It's a dicey plan, but it's also the one that saves the most people- you think.
 
[X] No new plan: You didn't bring the supplies, the troops, or the equipment to bring this dumpster fire of a base into spec. Get everyone into trucks, pull them back to Wraith's Gate, and then sort of float back to there and then do this all over again when Hooker and the rest of the goon squad gets here.

Yanking the guys off the beach already changes things. If the Navy can make Collie gunboats shoo we're in better shape to collect the second wave. If they can't? Well, they still have whatever they dragged into this mess to fiddle with while our group tries to jam more truckloads down the rail connection. And the respawned marines might have some ideas too.

Sticking around on the beach is just asking for a Colonial force to full send at a nearly cut-off point that's already dialed in for naval fires. Once the next wave lands we can chug coffee and consider how bad it got this time.
 
So like, increasingly, I'm thinking we maybe shouldn't argue with Hooker about the second wave on open comms where anyone can listen in?
 
Something that I didn't realize to ask myself before was if the radios actually have any sort of encryption. Yes, broadcasting over open comms seems like a rather bad idea, especially when you also considering how the comms jamming affected us talking to just the other tanks nearby us.

[X] New Plan: Play for time. That gunboat artillery is powerful, but if its anything like the mortars you're used to, it's also inaccurate. If you keep moving so that they can't correct their shots, and keep running anti-tank on the coastline as a threat, and the gunboats will either have to focus fire the bunker base you're getting re-fortified to accept the next load of troops at, or stop Zairman from harrasing their lines. It's a dicey plan, but it's also the one that saves the most people- you think.
 
[X] New Plan: Play for time. That gunboat artillery is powerful, but if its anything like the mortars you're used to, it's also inaccurate. If you keep moving so that they can't correct their shots, and keep running anti-tank on the coastline as a threat, and the gunboats will either have to focus fire the bunker base you're getting re-fortified to accept the next load of troops at, or stop Zairman from harrasing their lines. It's a dicey plan, but it's also the one that saves the most people- you think.
 
So: the Very New Plan involves arguing with Hooker over open comms, with everyone and their goblin listening in... and what are the odds that the Colonials aren't using SIGINT? That said, in 1.4 the Colonials were speaking Italian, so linguistic issues could well cause them trouble in the short term. Well, barring Sundowner being a complete asshole, which is never something to bet against. So it should be possible to pass information back to Weathering Halls, but having it out with Hooker should be assumed to be heard by everyone.

Hmmm. We have an active Colonial unit in Rime, which is pushing on us from the north. There's another one in Wightwalk, pushing on our blocking force holding the passage past Fort Juliet open. Pulling back would let the Rime force either chase us back to our lines (not great) or redeploy north and west to go after our forces facing Fort Ysomething (also not great, but should be workable). Staying put involves hoping the Colonial gunboat artillery can't hit moving targets.

So, I'm having to balance my hatred of the New Plan, with the desire to actually not get stuck in a completely shitty situation.
 
[X] New Plan: Play for time. That gunboat artillery is powerful, but if its anything like the mortars you're used to, it's also inaccurate. If you keep moving so that they can't correct their shots, and keep running anti-tank on the coastline as a threat, and the gunboats will either have to focus fire the bunker base you're getting re-fortified to accept the next load of troops at, or stop Zairman from harrasing their lines. It's a dicey plan, but it's also the one that saves the most people- you think.

I'll be honest, I don't like this idea so much we hate it the least. That being said, given how FUBAR the situation is, I can't say such feelings aren't appropriate. My compliments to the QM.
 
Just found this quest a couple days ago. First vote.

I'm pretty unhappy with our ootions, but let me try and run down the goals. Maybe I am misunderstanding something and the correction will help me decide.

Old Plan: evacuate the survivors of the First Wave and retreat before our narrow corridor is crushed. Leaves the Second Wave to its own devices.

New Plan: Attempt to hold the evacuation corridor open, so that the Second Wave has somewhere to go. Places our men in danger as the corridor was planned to be temporary.

Very New Plan: Try and call off the Second Wave. May possibly fail. May air dirty laundry over open air. We stick around a la New Plan unless the attack is confirmed called off.

Am I understanding correctly?
 
buli-buli said:
May air dirty laundry over open air.
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Will air dirty laundry over open air and tells the Collies what's going on.

Because some Collies aren't NPCs. Sundowner is a dick and might be using his PMC as opfor.

(Quest is ~40% SAO, 40% Foxhole, 5% Metal Gear 15% technothriller as per discord.)
 
Well we don't know what exactly the Collies are, but we do know they're intelligent enough to specifically call out Hooker and Orr by name when they were broadcasting propaganda during the push on Allsight.
 
[X] New Plan: Play for time. That gunboat artillery is powerful, but if its anything like the mortars you're used to, it's also inaccurate. If you keep moving so that they can't correct their shots, and keep running anti-tank on the coastline as a threat, and the gunboats will either have to focus fire the bunker base you're getting re-fortified to accept the next load of troops at, or stop Zairman from harrasing their lines. It's a dicey plan, but it's also the one that saves the most people- you think.
 
[X] New Plan: Play for time. That gunboat artillery is powerful, but if its anything like the mortars you're used to, it's also inaccurate. If you keep moving so that they can't correct their shots, and keep running anti-tank on the coastline as a threat, and the gunboats will either have to focus fire the bunker base you're getting re-fortified to accept the next load of troops at, or stop Zairman from harrasing their lines. It's a dicey plan, but it's also the one that saves the most people- you think.

I hate it, but it will hopefully save lives.
 
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