Shards of Awakening
- Thread starter dmclain2
- Start date
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
[X] provide a few hints that I think could provide the basis for what Quan Jia would say
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
Hmm there's the idea that we should only need to pay off Meng Chao for the short term since we won't need help protecting our fluffy tail pillow from the pig after we accomplish our quest since by then are friend would be too important to the sect to be kicked out by teenager 'plotting'.
I'll go ahead and close the minivote here.
So for hints, there's several things that I think can help, in no real sense of order:
First: at least at this point a resonance is much more about what one does than what one is, so don't worry so much about trying to filter it through sleep or dreams, or through connections or economics either. They're still both weird, probably mal-adjusted teenagers.
Second: Quan Jia cares deeply about specific people, but hasn't demonstrated much care about larger societal things. So it might make a more genuine offer to lean in to who she is, rather than what she thinks Meng Chao would want.
Third: Time is indeed more valuable in money. Meng Chao has the greatest access to wealth in the form of currency of probably any outer sect disciple. Quan Jia almost certainly has access to the most varied stockpile of artifacts though.
Fourth: We've seen in character, and reflected in thread that Quan Jia will do a lot for people she wants to be/is friends with (for instance, imagine the value of the two artifacts she received to help out Xiao Lien) and that she really doesn't think in terms of give and take.
As an aside, and at the risk of spoiling a bit of meta-tension regarding resource utilization, folks should keep in mind the more senior cultivators that would help her at almost literally the slightest request
So for hints, there's several things that I think can help, in no real sense of order:
First: at least at this point a resonance is much more about what one does than what one is, so don't worry so much about trying to filter it through sleep or dreams, or through connections or economics either. They're still both weird, probably mal-adjusted teenagers.
Second: Quan Jia cares deeply about specific people, but hasn't demonstrated much care about larger societal things. So it might make a more genuine offer to lean in to who she is, rather than what she thinks Meng Chao would want.
Third: Time is indeed more valuable in money. Meng Chao has the greatest access to wealth in the form of currency of probably any outer sect disciple. Quan Jia almost certainly has access to the most varied stockpile of artifacts though.
Fourth: We've seen in character, and reflected in thread that Quan Jia will do a lot for people she wants to be/is friends with (for instance, imagine the value of the two artifacts she received to help out Xiao Lien) and that she really doesn't think in terms of give and take.
As an aside, and at the risk of spoiling a bit of meta-tension regarding resource utilization, folks should keep in mind the more senior cultivators that would help her at almost literally the slightest request
- Location
- United States of America
Good things to know!
I'll need to take some time to figure out a good way to approach this then, but I certainly appreciate the hints as that culls some of the more unhelpful ideas and framing devices I was thinking about using. Which lets a better idea be generated!
I'll need to take some time to figure out a good way to approach this then, but I certainly appreciate the hints as that culls some of the more unhelpful ideas and framing devices I was thinking about using. Which lets a better idea be generated!
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Perhaps a partnership where Quan Jia decides that she will be friends with the community of White Caps. With a bit of practise we might be able to apply DEJ to find opportunities that would be helpful for White Caps. Meng Chao could then provide the economics support to turn the potential into reality.
It would be a rather naïve and optimistic proposal, but they are both teenagers here. They can dream big if they want to.
It would be a rather naïve and optimistic proposal, but they are both teenagers here. They can dream big if they want to.
- Location
- United States of America
Alright, so here is my idea for a proposal!
[X] Plan Assemble the Pieces!
-[X] While Quan Jia might not care much about larger society, she will certainly move heaven and earth to help her friends realize their ambitions. If Meng Chao's ambition is to assist the mortal White-Cap city, then Quan Jia would be willing to spend time delving into the realms of fates and dreams to help him achieve his goals.
-[X] Quan Jia has a stockpile of artifacts that Pops has provided to her, ranging from assisting in a wide range of cultivation aspects. If Meng Chao works with her against the sow, then borrowing artifacts for various times could be arranged.
-[X] In a peculiar twist of fate, Quan Jia has also begun making some inroads in forming relationships with Senior Outer Sect Disciples who are willing to bend the rules to stay away from first-year outer sect members. They likely have resources, knowledge, and insights that would be vital in realizing Meng Chao's ambitions, introductions could be made.
So, here is my initial plan. Focusing on three things that Quan Jia has over her social opponent: time/ability to assist Meng Chao in his goal to work with White-Cap city, the artifacts at her disposal (letting him borrow one for a week every so often shouldn't be a problem if we can schedule it in advance), and her connections with older outer Sect Disciples willing to bend the rules a bit.
Critiques, suggestions, and comments welcomed!
[X] Plan Assemble the Pieces!
-[X] While Quan Jia might not care much about larger society, she will certainly move heaven and earth to help her friends realize their ambitions. If Meng Chao's ambition is to assist the mortal White-Cap city, then Quan Jia would be willing to spend time delving into the realms of fates and dreams to help him achieve his goals.
-[X] Quan Jia has a stockpile of artifacts that Pops has provided to her, ranging from assisting in a wide range of cultivation aspects. If Meng Chao works with her against the sow, then borrowing artifacts for various times could be arranged.
-[X] In a peculiar twist of fate, Quan Jia has also begun making some inroads in forming relationships with Senior Outer Sect Disciples who are willing to bend the rules to stay away from first-year outer sect members. They likely have resources, knowledge, and insights that would be vital in realizing Meng Chao's ambitions, introductions could be made.
So, here is my initial plan. Focusing on three things that Quan Jia has over her social opponent: time/ability to assist Meng Chao in his goal to work with White-Cap city, the artifacts at her disposal (letting him borrow one for a week every so often shouldn't be a problem if we can schedule it in advance), and her connections with older outer Sect Disciples willing to bend the rules a bit.
Critiques, suggestions, and comments welcomed!
[X] Plan Assemble the Pieces!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
How much time are you offering, specifically?
- Location
- United States of America
I'm leaving it flexible to be figured out. Meng Chao has a whole philosophy going on where reasonableness is a key factor, so I highly doubt that Meng Chao would try to tie up an unreasonable time frame.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'd rather make a concrete agreement. It's clear communication between us and the QM and clear communication between Quan Jia and Meng Chao. Meng could also take the vague approach as us saying we don't actually know what we're offering him, and then he won't know what he's actually agreeing to.
Also, letting our opposite in a business deal decide all of the terms just makes us look weak and noncommital in this case. "This is what I have, how much do you want?" The honest answer is always "all of it." The point of specifying is that we're telling him our limit. If he's so reasonable that he won't take too much, we should just offer him the most we're willing to give. Would we be fine if he reasonably took the 1 action per month option? Then just offer that.
- Location
- United States of America
I would rather not. If I wanted to create a concrete contract delegating the obligations and rights for each party in this negotiation and set hard limits, terms, and conditions I would be wording this whole thing differently and I would approach the whole thing differently.
The thing is, we have no idea what value Meng Chao would place on our assistance and time or the value he would place on time using our artifacts or the value in our contacts with older outer sect disciples. So trying to set concrete agreements with a complete lack of information on what value Meng Chao places on these aspects of the negotiation is difficult to the point of pointlessness.
I would much rather create a vote that communicates the gist of what we are willing to offer and let the QM take that to form the concrete obligations with negotiations between Quan Jia and Meng Chao.
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
[X] Plan Assemble the Pieces!
Vote closed
- Location
- United States of America
Here's hoping everything goes well!
Not Negotiations Turn 4 Part 4
-[] While Quan Jia might not care much about larger society, she will certainly move heaven and earth to help her friends realize their ambitions. If Meng Chao's ambition is to assist the mortal White-Cap city, then Quan Jia would be willing to spend time delving into the realms of fates and dreams to help him achieve his goals.
-[] Quan Jia has a stockpile of artifacts that Pops has provided to her, ranging from assisting in a wide range of cultivation aspects. If Meng Chao works with her against the sow, then borrowing artifacts for various times could be arranged.
-[] In a peculiar twist of fate, Quan Jia has also begun making some inroads in forming relationships with Senior Outer Sect Disciples who are willing to bend the rules to stay away from first-year outer sect members. They likely have resources, knowledge, and insights that would be vital in realizing Meng Chao's ambitions, introductions could be made.
-[] Quan Jia has a stockpile of artifacts that Pops has provided to her, ranging from assisting in a wide range of cultivation aspects. If Meng Chao works with her against the sow, then borrowing artifacts for various times could be arranged.
-[] In a peculiar twist of fate, Quan Jia has also begun making some inroads in forming relationships with Senior Outer Sect Disciples who are willing to bend the rules to stay away from first-year outer sect members. They likely have resources, knowledge, and insights that would be vital in realizing Meng Chao's ambitions, introductions could be made.
"I don't think I can make myself care about people I don't know, people I don't like," Quan Jia speaks hesitantly into the silence that had been slowly growing since Meng Chao had asked for her offer. "I think it would hurt too much to care about everyone's happiness. And society's too big a thing for someone like me to even try and fix."
"It's hard enough just trying to make sure the people I care about are happy and whole." Wind picks up errant strands of blonde hair as she mumbles into the horizon. "So I don't think I could be much help in trying to do whatever it is you want to do here…"
"I don't even really know what you would want that I could offer," she pauses then, chasing thoughts that flitter like butterflies, flying away from her outstretched hands, "I have stuff, some really cool stuff… stuff that pops' made, and I guess I know some cool people… a few creepy guys, but they're more sneak up behind you creepy than the really bad kind. Other than that, I like to wander around… following fate to find people that I need, or that need me, I guess."
"But fate's a small, personal, kind of thing for me, and you already have all the rest, don't you? All the money, and things, and the people that care about you because of who your parents are..." she trails off, sighs, continues. "This isn't that good an offer, is it?"
"It's not the worst I've heard," he shrugs, then continues with an honesty that is somehow refreshing in its bluntness. "But no, it isn't the best either."
"It's cause negotiations and offers and this kind of thing aren't really something I do. It's really not who I am..." but what am I… ohhh, right… she glance over at Meng Chao, smiles, and asks. "Do you have a lot of friends, Meng Chao?"
"Hmm," he tilts his head thoughtfully and responds, "I have variety of acquaintances, an acceptable and growing list of both formal and informal alliances, and a small collection of cousins near my own age with whom I maintain a cordial relationship."
I didn't think so…
"Do you want to be friends then?" she offers… perhaps it was as easy as that…
"Why would I want that?" again his head tilts in what seems honest confusion, perhaps tinted with uncertainty. "What do friends do that's different from the connections I already have?"
"Nothing," she grins and waits, knowing he couldn't resist.
"Nothing," he parrots and frowns, looking a touch annoyed, and a touch more confused.
"And everything," she continues and grins again, enjoying that space within friendship where annoying someone was actually ok.
"How?" he asks, seeming to realize that she was doing it on purpose, but not quite understanding why.
"If I only ever give as much as I take… that's like a business, like I'm just buying something... and I guess customers are probably important to businesses," I hope this is making sense.. "But what about people who you don't want to keep a list of what they've given and taken? When you give because it makes both of you happy, not to even things out…"
"It seems as though an accurate recording would do better at ensuring both parties were satisfied with the interaction." Meng Chao's disagreement is contrasted somewhat against the thoughtful sort of frown that accents his face.
"How do you measure happiness then? Yours or theirs?" the vibrancy of being at the sect, around new friends contrasts against the almost entirely unremittingly gray of her childhood and she swallows, smiles softly anyways, "life's a lot more interesting with friends around than all those other types of people… I've seen some of that first-hand."
1d100 = 96 + 50 = 146 vs DC 80 = 6 degrees of success.
So to explain things a bit, the key point here was that Quan Jia really had no interest in engaging on the grounds of something like alliance or mutual benefit or whatever, so that really didn't work. It's not who she is, or what she cares about.
I think shifting the offer from a concrete sort of deal with specific money/time was an interesting move, and one that accurately reflected Quan Jia's mindset and outlook. (+ 20)
The major, and most correct point was that this was, to Quan Jia, a matter of friendship. This was touched on in the first point (+30)
This was never going to be an easy DC. Quan Jia was competing against someone naturally skilled in this type of social maneuvering and with all the same type of materiel support that could be offered. There was also no bonus available for social score since both girls had a +2 with Meng Chao.
In order to make the second offer matter in mechanics terms, I'll be rolling some dice whenever an artifact is used during cultivation. This will happen behind the curtain, until and unless you fail whatever check is involved. I say this as a warning so that voters aren't surprised when it happens.
Also, congratulations, you've unlocked another quest.
Quest: Imagine.
Assist Meng Chao in the uplift of White-Caps upon Stone. There is no concrete time-table for success, although a lack of effort in assistance will result in a fracturing of the relationship between Quan Jia and Meng Chao.
So to explain things a bit, the key point here was that Quan Jia really had no interest in engaging on the grounds of something like alliance or mutual benefit or whatever, so that really didn't work. It's not who she is, or what she cares about.
I think shifting the offer from a concrete sort of deal with specific money/time was an interesting move, and one that accurately reflected Quan Jia's mindset and outlook. (+ 20)
The major, and most correct point was that this was, to Quan Jia, a matter of friendship. This was touched on in the first point (+30)
This was never going to be an easy DC. Quan Jia was competing against someone naturally skilled in this type of social maneuvering and with all the same type of materiel support that could be offered. There was also no bonus available for social score since both girls had a +2 with Meng Chao.
In order to make the second offer matter in mechanics terms, I'll be rolling some dice whenever an artifact is used during cultivation. This will happen behind the curtain, until and unless you fail whatever check is involved. I say this as a warning so that voters aren't surprised when it happens.
Also, congratulations, you've unlocked another quest.
Quest: Imagine.
Assist Meng Chao in the uplift of White-Caps upon Stone. There is no concrete time-table for success, although a lack of effort in assistance will result in a fracturing of the relationship between Quan Jia and Meng Chao.
"So what do friends do?" he asks, eyebrow raised in curiosity.
"Eat food," she gestures at the paper trays that had once been filled with fried bits of eggplant.
"Watch the sunset," she turns back to the horizon. "Simple things mostly."
"Then were we already friends?" is the somewhat hesitant question.
"I think so," she nods in response.
"Then why did you ask?" is the perhaps even more hesitant follow-up question.
"Because it's important to say thing out loud sometimes, makes sure no one's confused…" she trails off, looks at Meng Chao, or rather at his shoulder and how it's leaned back against a fluffy pillow.
"You know, there is one other thing friends do," she grins, more than a little slyly, "and I've never slept with a boy before… so sit still."
"Quan Jia," her friend's voice is a near screech as he blushes a bright red, and for perhaps the first time she could recall, the somewhat distant control that Meng Chao kept over his emotions vanishes in a sputtering response, "that's, no, I don't, it wouldn't be, what would your fath-"
"Pops isn't here now," she grins and flops onto her friend's shoulder, "now be a good pillow."
"Ohh, you didn't mean..." he trails off into a mumble that she feels as much as hears, "I don't know whether I should be relieved or…"
"Good pillows don't talk," she murmurs sleepily, already beginning to drift off.
Not as soft, but still nice… "top twenty, definitely."
Meng Chao looks down at the still distractingly pretty face of his... friend and what an unusual, though not necessarily unwelcome thought that was, and his mind slowly whirs into focus. He would help with her retainer's particular issue, and time would tell whether friendship was also a connection worth cultivating, but to provide support he would first need to:
[] start developing an information network. (free rumor roll (1d100) once per month. Low rolls may not reveal anything.)
[] start investigating promising individuals. (identifies individuals that are predisposed to support Xiao Lien and Quan Jia. Individuals identified may not be powerful or influential.).
[] develop a rhetorical framework for debate. (provides a situational bonus to convincing neutral parties to support or at least abstain from the competition between Quan Jia and Liu Lifen. Bonus may be lessened or negated by pre-existing prejudice.)
- Location
- United States
Well done. I love the mentality you have for both of them. It makes perfect sense for them both and despite them having almost polar opposite ideals you bridged the gap in a way that doesnt feel trite or forced.
Quan will never deeply cate for the faceless masses but will move heaven and earth for her loved ones.
Meng meanwhile is going for an economic victory in Civ.
Quan will never deeply cate for the faceless masses but will move heaven and earth for her loved ones.
Meng meanwhile is going for an economic victory in Civ.
Thanks. I had a plan for how this was going to play out and then once I saw the first few sentences on paper, I scrapped the whole idea and went here instead. I think it worked better and I'm glad others think it fits as well.
CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] start investigating promising individuals. (identifies individuals that are predisposed to support Xiao Lien and Quan Jia. Individuals identified may not be powerful or influential.).
WhoTheHeckity
But no one ever asks HowTheHeckity
- Location
- Murica 🦅
[X] develop a rhetorical framework for debate. (provides a situational bonus to convincing neutral parties to support or at least abstain from the competition between Quan Jia and Liu Lifen. Bonus may be lessened or negated by pre-existing prejudice.)
[X] start investigating promising individuals. (identifies individuals that are predisposed to support Xiao Lien and Quan Jia. Individuals identified may not be powerful or influential.).