SEE YOU NEXT MISSION - Metroid Series General

In terms of raw power? Lategame Corruption or the end of Dread. In terms of versatility? Probably Samus Returns, as you said. Even if she lacks the speed booster in SR, the time dilation upgrade and the Power Bomb pseudo-Shinespark cover for it in functionality anyway. (Though Dread and Echoes feel like decent runner-ups on the versatility front.)
 
I feel like her strongest individual beams were from Echoes, outside of Hypermode, the Omegacannon, and such.

The Light, Dark, and Annihilation Beams are just really good at melting enemies, and their beam combos all were leagues beyond the beam combos in both Super and Prime 1. The Darkburst and Sunburst even feel like they're referenced in Dread by Raven Beak's attacks.

Besides that, however, I do think Dread has the best loadout overall and it's also the game with her developing her Metroid powers. Even without the Metroid Suit, the ability to recharge and rearm is such a game changer, and it lets her (in cutscenes) kill EMMIs by just grabbing them. Samus has always been about fighting at range, but they gave her a sick instant-win melee ability that also actively heals and rearms her, which means as long as there's something to drain, she has infinite endurance.

Then you add the Aeion abilities on top of that, the strongest depiction of the Power Bomb, the fact all her 275 missiles are Super Ice Missiles, she's got a mostly fully combined beam that can be spammed faster than any other game, has Storm missiles which are Seeker missiles but better... Yeah, Dread Samus is way above Super in terms of strength I believe.

Samus Returns does have more offensive/defensive Aeion abilities, but they pale in comparison to Dread's Metroid powers.
 
Then you add the Aeion abilities on top of that, the strongest depiction of the Power Bomb, the fact all her 275 missiles are Super Ice Missiles, she's got a mostly fully combined beam that can be spammed faster than any other game, has Storm missiles which are Seeker missiles but better... Yeah, Dread Samus is way above Super in terms of strength I believe.

Samus Returns does have more offensive/defensive Aeion abilities, but they pale in comparison to Dread's Metroid powers.

Time slow though! The concept is super cool at least, even if it seems to have limited utility in-game. I haven't actually played Samus Returns so I haven't tried it out for myself. But it slows down time by half right?

Also is Dread the most powerful version of the power bomb? I thought that was Other M.
 
Time slow though! The concept is super cool at least, even if it seems to have limited utility in-game. I haven't actually played Samus Returns so I haven't tried it out for myself. But it slows down time by half right?

Also is Dread the most powerful version of the power bomb? I thought that was Other M.

Phase Drift slows time by half for everything except Samus, and you can keep it up a decent amount of time, but unlike Dread, Aeion doesn't recharge automatically. You have to use pickups or a recharge station to fill it back up, meaning you only have a limited amount of use in boss fights. It's biggest use is getting past crumble blocks, and for prolonging the weak point window for certain bosses.

As for the power bomb... I've never played Other M, so I wasn't considering it. (I'll probably begrudgingly try it after I'm finished with the Prime games.)

So, it being cooldown based with unlimited ammo is interesting, but I'm not sure how large its range is? Its damage sounds great, but I was mainly thinking about Dread's Power Bombs being the best due to having their radius be so large, the explosion can actually follow you into other rooms and kill enemies there. There's also the fact they can instantly kill the Chozo Robot Soldier mini-bosses. It's very cathartic to just one-shot the duo of bots in Burenia.
 
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I've been wondering, and I'm interested in getting input on this: at what point is Samus at her strongest? That is, excluding one-offs like the Metroid Suit or hyper beam in Super, what is her strongest loadout?

Previously I would have said Super Metroid, since she has basically all her standard upgrades like the gravity suit, wave/plasma beam, speed booster, etc.

But then Samus Returns adds a whole bunch of new abilities. In addition to her standard abilities she also gets rapid fire beams, lightning armor, and even slowing down time. The downside is she loses her speed booster.

Then there's Dread, which introduces the flash shift, cross bombs, and phantom cloak. The downside is that her armor is still repairing itself and seems a bit more fragile.

So which is the most powerful version of Samus?

If we're going by in game stats its actually Fusion, hilariously enough. That Samus takes barely any damage from anything and her beam kills everything stupid fast.
 
If we're going by in game stats its actually Fusion, hilariously enough. That Samus takes barely any damage from anything and her beam kills everything stupid fast.

Yeah, going by pure game stats, I can see that.

You can clearly compare Fusion Samus to Super Metroid Samus with the SA-X too.

Samus only takes 20 energy damage from the SA-X's power bombs for one. It's also the game where she has the largest amount of expansions.

20 Energy Tanks, 250 Super Diffusion Ice Missiles, and 74 Power Bombs.
 
If we're going by in game stats its actually Fusion, hilariously enough. That Samus takes barely any damage from anything and her beam kills everything stupid fast.
Wait what? I distinctly remember Samus being extremely fragile in that game and taking ludicrous amounts of damage. And even with her Fusion gravity suit by the end, she is still distinctly weaker than the SA-X in the Varia suit.
 
Wait what? I distinctly remember Samus being extremely fragile in that game and taking ludicrous amounts of damage. And even with her Fusion gravity suit by the end, she is still distinctly weaker than the SA-X in the Varia suit.
Fusion Samus only really takes huge damage from kihunters before gravity suit and the SA-X, plus her charge beam blocks single projectiles. Combine that with 20 e-tanks, and she can facetank for days.

Damagewise, Fusion Samus kills the SA-X in like 4 shots if you do it right, which makes her weapons way more powerful than Super Metroid's.
 
Fusion Samus only really takes huge damage from kihunters before gravity suit and the SA-X, plus her charge beam blocks single projectiles. Combine that with 20 e-tanks, and she can facetank for days.

Damagewise, Fusion Samus kills the SA-X in like 4 shots if you do it right, which makes her weapons way more powerful than Super Metroid's.

I was actually thinking of Kihunters specifically, those things are a pain in the ass. But I remember constantly being on low energy even in the later parts of the game, it just seems more difficult in general.

Also how do you kill the SA-X in four shots? I counted one time and it took me like 12!

By the way, I did a test a while back to see how much damage the SA-X does to you in your blue Fusion suit. Remember the scene in the TRO sector where you drop into the top part of a room and the SA-X is walking on the bottom part? If you drop down and fight the SA-X it will immediately hit you with an ice beam then shoot a super missile at you. The ice beam instantly takes off two energy tanks, and the super missile takes off one. Compared to this the power bomb seems hilariously weak, which is interesting.
 
I think the reason for that is simple: It's extremely hard to not be hit by the power bomb in that scene, where it's always considered a player mistake if you get hit by the Ice Beam/Super Missile combo. Of course, in character, the reason that Samus takes more damage is probably due to being part Metroid.
 
I think the reason for that is simple: It's extremely hard to not be hit by the power bomb in that scene, where it's always considered a player mistake if you get hit by the Ice Beam/Super Missile combo. Of course, in character, the reason that Samus takes more damage is probably due to being part Metroid.
The power bomb does seem to be much more powerful in Dread. Though we don't know exactly how much damage it does to her shields, the red EMMI power bomb visibly staggers Samus and brings her to her knees - temporarily at least, she recovers pretty quickly.
 
As tough as Samus is generally portrayed as being, her most basic power suit has some notable weaknesses. For example, acid, magma, and even superheated magma filled rooms will slowly eat away at her shields. Other M also has some head scratchers, like instantly dying to an avalanche.

A reviewer I like, The Geek Critique, sardonically commented in a review of Other M that "the power suit can survive massive explosions and crushing underwater depths, but being buried under snow? That's the one thing the Chozo never considered."
 
As tough as Samus is generally portrayed as being, her most basic power suit has some notable weaknesses. For example, acid, magma, and even superheated magma filled rooms will slowly eat away at her shields. Other M also has some head scratchers, like instantly dying to an avalanche.
I'll chalk that one up to gameplay and story segregation.
 
Does anyone else think the location names in Metroid Dread are kinda strange? Like, a name like Crateria makes sense, because it's on the surface and covered with craters - something like that. Brinstar, Norfair, Maridia, Phendrana, I don't know if these names have meanings but they sound memorable.

But what is Artaria supposed to mean?
 
Status Update:

Metroid Prime 2: I've reached Sanctuary Fortress.

Metroid Prime 3: I'm past Bryyo and now in Sky Town.

Which is pretty neat, since both of these areas fully showcase both societies' technology when building advanced settlements. It's pretty much the only time we ever see a non-Mawkin Chozo settlement with their level of tech on full display, rather than it hidden away in stone statues and temples.

Both the Luminoth and Chozo like to keep things a bit humble, but it's cool to see they have highly advanced settlements as well. Sanctuary Fortress is a skyscraper/mountain of tech overlooking an entire cityscape. And Skytown is the only thing you could call a Chozo city we've ever seen I believe.

It's interesting to compare the two. The Chozo in their past sure loved their steampunk aesthetic, while the Luminoth went full "the Future is Neon." ...Well, they are giant moth people, so it fits.
 
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Finally nearing the end of my 100% Metroid Prime 2 playthrough.

I have all the Sky Temple Keys, all the energy tanks/missile expansions/power bomb expansions, and all the missable scans. I was looking for that last missile expansion for almost an hour before I found it too. I'm really glad future Metroid games after Prime 2 have an item checklist. All that's left is to give Emperor Ing and Dark Samus a thrashing. Then I can go on to hard mode and the speedrun and I'll be done with my Retroachievements for it.

I can tell you for sure, Metroid Prime 2 makes you work for some of those items. Some of the expansions had more elaborate Spider-Ball tracks than the Plasma Beam in Prime 1 did. I think I went to the Underwater Temple in Torvus like half a dozen times because I kept missing things! Part of that is probably just because I don't have Prime 2's maps nearly as memorized as I do Prime 1, but they hide things very well.

Now that I've had time to play around with it in both games: The Prime 1+2 Power Bombs are odd. Oh sure, they do tons of damage and can let you instantly kill enemies that normally need a lot more fight tangoing, and they even have their place in boss fights here and there... but their range sucks sooo much. In some ways, they feel like a midway step between Samus' normal bombs and her 2D game's Power Bombs. Worse, you can't really spam them either! You get more than five times the amount of power bombs in the 2D games, which lets you just make any normal enemy encounter a breeze. Meanwhile, in the Prime games, if you aren't right by enemies in morphball mode, forget about it, and you're lucky if you get three enemies with one bomb. Post-Quadraxis, the Annihilator Beam + Luminoth Crystal/Beacon combo makes rooms far more of a breeze in comparison. If anything needs a readjustment in a future Prime game, I think Power Bombs do.

In Prime 3: Still on Elysia, but near the end. In the middle of making the Nuclear Bomb for the Leviathan Seed. Annoyingly, I was stuck in a boss fight with the Skytown Berserker Lord to the point I thought I was actually soft locked! The bastard kept firing his orange mouth globs at me after I took out his shoulder weak points and refused to fire any of his blue orbs I could shoot back at him to take out his armor plating. I wasted like five energy tanks just going into hypermode to see if I could bait him out of it! I was almost about to let him kill me just to reset before he suddenly got out of the loop and actually gave me an opening.

It was incredibly incredibly cathartic instant killing him with the Screw Attack after his armor plate was down. I do like how early you get the Screw Attack in Prime 3. It spices up combat a touch as an option to use.

Phazon Metroids are much more annoying than I remember. Hitting them with ice missiles just isn't worth it since they seemingly decide to go intangible nine out of ten missiles. They are on my "Hypermode immediately" list so I can just brute force past them now. Screw Attack if I have the room.
 
Update:

Prime 2:
I just need to beat Prime 2 on Hard and than do a speed-run before I move on, but I have finished my 100% run.

After playing through it again, it is definitely the Twilight Princess of Metroid, if that makes sense. It's got the darkest tone of all the Metroid games and the atmosphere feels oppressive at time. Obviously that fits perfectly with the Ing and Dark Aether.

I do love the game, but I'm not sure if it's my favorite of the series.

Mainly because of the Ing.

Don't get me wrong. I love the concept of the Ing. They're an eldritch race of shapeshifters from a dimension hostile to normal life and are basically living darkness.

But despite being the main threat of the game, and the majority of foes you face... they don't have a strong presence. I know that sounds contradcitory, but let me explain.

The Ing are a faceless evil. Unlike every other faction in the Prime series, there is no lore that covers their objectives or thoughts beyond outside perspectives from the Pirates and Luminoth. In a way, that fits with their darkness-aesthetic and their main tool being possession. They are a living darkness that can wear any face, so the mystery is part of the appeal, but... it diminishes their pressence.

Yes, most bosses in the game are literally Ing Warriors just possessing other creatures or machines, and yes they were on the brink of ultimate victory until Samus arrived at the literal eleventh hour... but there's a disconnect between what we see in-game and what little story we get.

When we start the game going through the destroyed GF base, the storytelling implied by the enivronment is that the Marines were suddenly attacked en mass by Ing possessed creatures and even the marines themselves. Then we actually see the Ing at their home dimension, they immediately pounce on Samus and steal much of her equipment and integrate the upgrades into their own bodies. (Sidenote, this is the best "return to zero" moment in Metroid for me.) Shortly after, from the Galactic Federation ship cutscene, we see an entire army of Ing possessed Splinters attack all the Marines at once, probably at the same time their underground base was attacked.

We are introduced early on to the Ing as a very proactive force that attacks offworlders, and they use their numbers to their advantage to overwhelm who they fight.

...And then from there on, the Ing feel very passive. Too passive. Oh sure, they do send some possessed Pirate Commandos after you, but it feels like after that introduction, Samus is mostly hunting the different Ing Guardians herself in their hiding spots, rather than it being her taking on an entire army.

It feels less like you're actively fighting a militant faction that brought the Luminoth to near extinction but are fighting what remains of them in a post-apocallypse Aether.

The lore builds up the Ing as a Horde that fight with massive numbers, eat their dead, and send their weakest younglings in first to soften the enemy. The gameplay never really gives this sense of scale. If there were a few places in the game where you had to fight swarms of Ing warriors, this would help, but the most Ing you ever fight at once is like four or five.

They do a good job of doing some characterizing with Dark Samus in this game, all via her silent actions in cutscenes and such... but the Ing on the other hand after the start of the game lack that, and it hurts them as the antagonists. They even get fully sidelined at the end by Dark Samus taking over as final boss.

Which okay, Dark Samus is the big bad in Prime 3, but... man, I wish the Ing just had more gravitas.

Maybe that could have been fixed by having the Emperor Ing possessing a Luminoth Warrior and have it be more present throughout the game actively taunting her? This game was the first one with active dialogue in a Metroid game, from various Luminoth holograms and U-Mos speaking directly to Samus. Playing more with that from the villain side of things may have balanced it out, and give the Emperor Ing more of a direct presence than merely it being a penultimate boss without build-up.

They're a cool concept, but they just feel too empty as an enemy.

Prime 3:

Doing the final upgrade round-up before I finish the game.

And... for some reason, I always thought the Energy Cells were optional! I thought the whole point of Valhalla was that it was a treasure trove of upgrades and not a mandatory part of the game. Color me surprised when by the end I get the Leviathan Battleship control code. Clearly, they're Prime 3's version of the Artifacts and Sky Temple Keyes.

I have no idea how I came to that conclusion when I was younger. It also means all the "bonus locations" and such I thought were cool are just normal parts of the game.

It's kind of embarrasing really! :oops:

Beyond that, Phazon Metroids have gone from the most annoying Metroid to fight to the easiest. Nova Beam + X-Ray Visor means I can just one tap them now. Even their cool Metroid Hatcher mini-bosses go down in one hit.

With the Nova Beam, Phazon has just made the Metroids weaker.
 
To be clear, the biggest difference between the Energy Cells and the Artifacts/Sky Temple Keys is that you don't need all of them. You need, like, 3? of the 9, whereas you need all of the Artifacts and Sky Temple Keys. The vast majority of them are bonuses, and most of the Valhalla is optional. In my opinion, it's a far superior version compared to requiring getting them all.
 
They're a cool concept, but they just feel too empty as an enemy.
Honestly, even as an Echoes shill, I agree completely. Really wish we'd have gotten some sort of scannable lore from their viewpoint; even if it just reinforced the evil vibes from elsewhere, it still could have done a lot to flesh them out and characterize them, instead of just relying secondhand on the Luminoth accounts and observations that are obviously not going to be terribly charitable. Prime 1's Pirate scans are kind of a masterclass in fleshing out a faction beyond just ontologically evil, without really making them sympathetic either.

Maybe that could have been fixed by having the Emperor Ing possessing a Luminoth Warrior and have it be more present throughout the game actively taunting her? This game was the first one with active dialogue in a Metroid game, from various Luminoth holograms and U-Mos speaking directly to Samus. Playing more with that from the villain side of things may have balanced it out, and give the Emperor Ing more of a direct presence than merely it being a penultimate boss without build-up.
This also would have been pretty great.

Honestly just the concept of possessed Luminoth in general feels like something potentially excellent got wasted. Going by textures and stuff people found, apparently they were going to be a thing to some degree... but must have been cut for time or budget reasons, which is a shame.
 
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Honestly, even as an Echoes shill, I agree completely. Really wish we'd have gotten some sort of scannable lore from their viewpoint; even if it just reinforced the evil vibes from elsewhere, it still could have done a lot to flesh them out and characterize them, instead of just relying secondhand on the Luminoth accounts and observations that are obviously not going to be terribly charitable. Prime 1's Pirate scans are kind of a masterclass in fleshing out a faction beyond just ontologically evil, without really making them sympathetic either.

Yeah!

From the Prime 1 Pirate Lore, we know that the Pirates are actively hunting for Samus's Gunship to sabotage it. You know they have groups moving around the planet doing things. There's several lore scans talking about "The Hunter" and them freaking out about Samus and doing several things about you. And the enemies that are outright copying your beam weapons means they have been busy, and lore even says they tried to go beyond that. (Those poor Pirate Morph Ball Alpha testers.)

The Ing? I have no idea what the Ing are doing collectively in Prime 2 outside of sending Pirate Commandos after you and presumably forcing possessed Metroids to breed in different locations on Dark Aether.

Maybe the Ing don't really consider Samus a big threat at first, but after she gets the Energy Transfer Module or steals Dark Agon's Energy, she should be their enemy number one and primary concern.... and it doesn't really feel like it.

This also would have been pretty great.

Honestly just the concept of possessed Luminoth in general feels like some thing potentially excellent got wasted. Going by textures and stuff people found, apparently they were going to be a thing to some degree... but must have been cut for time or budget reasons, which is a shame.

Yeah, Prime 2 did come out less than two years after Prime 1 by a few days. That fast game creation cycle was more of the norm back then, but you can tell they recycled a good bit from Prime 1. The Ingsmashers definitely use the Elite Pirate as a base, and the same with Grenchlers being obviously based on Baby Sheegoth.

Has some Majora's Mask energy there in that regard.
 
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