SACQ 9/4: Tank Development II, HEAT edition
- Thread starter 7734
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- New Texas
[X] Little Box of Wonders.
- Location
- Buskerud, Norway
And having a transport that cannot transport many, a combat vehicle that cannot eliminate tanks
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
[x] Little Box of Wonders
Task I Entrants
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
After pounding out the RFQ, you sat back on your heels, smiled, and spent the rest of the day in as close as a state of relaxation as you could before having dinner, getting a drink, screwing a whore, and getting a nice eight hours of sleep. When you woke up, though, you realized you had to pay for your sins against the military hierarchy. The other shoe dropped shortly after breakfast, though, when a Confessor of the Order of Santiago came up to you with a pile of ecclesiarchial documents and a sealed order from the government. Cracking it open, you winced.
You had four months to conduct testing and initial outfitting, before your unit was seconded to the Order of Santiago so that they could continue crusading against the heathens, heretics, and pagans in Outreamer and continue their now three hundred year long war against the State of Al-Memphis. The reason this was anywhere near legal was because the Order of Santiago had, technically, been a state without land after some dodgy land appropriation deals and the unification of Peresciova, which the Galaceian government handled by letting the Order take partial suzerainty of the city of Bocha. It wasn't a one-way street, though: Galaceia legally couldn't have a navy, but the Order of Santiago had no such restriction. Everyone protested, but considering the third largest city in Galaceia was effectively a naval-bound March it wasn't too untenable.
You still had to go out there eventually though. What was worse was you were also the batallion headquarters closest to Bocha, which was why you got this shitty job. Oh well.
It was about a month into your four month window that you got your response to the RFQ, and you had to groan. Each company had sent in two prototypes, and what was worse was that since the government had actually bought the damn things you were stuck with them for it.
The first entrant was by Elizade Automotive, and you had to hold your head in your hand. It was a standard three axle truck with an eight cylinder three liter v-block engine, and was up-armored with eight millimeter rolled steel on a ten millimeter spacer set in the frontal arc and four millimeter steel in the rest. A snorkel exited the top opposite the behind-cab smokestack, and between the two was a small gun nest equipped with an Irromine Smg.62 heavy machine gun on top with a good arc of fire over the frontal forty degrees. The vehicle possessed no chemical warfare resistance for the troops in the rear or the gunner, but the cab was protected by a chemical filter based around countering the big three war gasses through activated charcoal filters. The end design clocked in at about eight and a half tons, held the entire standard infantry squad with room to spare, and had rear exit. mac Vaermi loved it to bits at first sight, and firmly believed it would save the battalion's immortal souls.
The second design was the Irizar Bus Work's deign, which was a lot more capable in exchange for also being terribly heavy. A tracked design with a five cylinder flat opposed four liter engine, it was most notable for it's twenty millimeter front rolled plate and all-around twelve millimeter protection. Amphibious capability was done by raising a crew snorkel and a set of jumper cables to allow a second unit to provide power to the electric transmission while standing offboard as an auxillery power unit, and the entire vehicle was proof against chemical warfare and had air filtration done by a mechanical draw-through filtration system often used in mines. Weapons-wise, it had a pair of Slk.82 2cm autocannons, a long-barrel and high energy version of the venerable Slk.69 gun, as well as a pintle mounted autorifle. The end design clocked about thirteen and three quarters tons dry, held the infantry squad in acceptable discomfort, and had a set of rear barn doors to exit from. Siemprevides liked the design a lot, but was sad it didn't have a shell-firing gun to work with.
The third design was produced by L'Osseau, Galaceia division. Designed around a very basic four-wheel chassis and overbuilt suspension, this design was powered by a six-cylinder inline four liter engine that had the traditional Balhk reliance on air cooling and a large oil reservoir. For protection, it had a six millimeter sheet steel cladding over the engine and driver's compartment, while the back had only three millimeters. Over the engine itself was an additional six millimeter plate, and the driver and cab passenger also had armored drop-down shutters. Fording was done by finding a bridge, since the design only had about forty centimeters of water it could clear before the engine bay flooded and the thing stalled out. Chemical protection was likewise scarce, since the crew compartment was only sealed, not provided with a filtration system, and the passenger compartment was totally open. What made the design excel, though, was the degree of armament options afforded. The 'base' model carried a Kubachin Warrl heavy machine gun in 12.7mm set on a ring and pintel mount, but the open topped back let the vehicle be easily customized. The two extra demonstrated versions were equipped with a low velocity 75mm gun and an 88mm mortar, respectively, sacrificing their troop carrying capacity to do so. Their troop carrying capacity was their weakest suit, really, since they could only move six guys around at anything approaching safety, which meant if you adopted it you'd need to re-draw your ToE for any unit equipped with them. On the plus side, though, they were the cheapest by a massive margin, and only weighed five tons soaking wet and full of dudes.
The last design was the Ghermain Brothers Auto Galaceia group's submission, and it was a fucking box with treads. There was no other way to describe it. If it was any more of a box you'd need to compare it to a cardboard box, and watch the storage container loose. Powered by a four cylinder boxer with five liters of displacement, the Metal Box as everyone called it had the most impressive protection: twenty millimeters of armor plate in the front, albiet flat, with eight millimeters of armor everywhere else. The provided weapon was a single pintel mount for a machine-gun of your choice, which meant knowing your budget an autorifle was probably getting stuck up there. Fording was handled via a long snorkel and the crew getting told to hold their breaths, and chemical protection was via the same filtration system that was used on the Elizade- literally both made by the same company. The design actually fit twelve dudes, so your current squads would probably either get expanded or find shit to fill all that empty space with. As long as they didn't try cooking in them, they'd be fine.
Now all you had to do was find out how to determine which one was best, ideally without destroying them. Much. This was going to be tricky.
PLAN VOTE: Come up with a test vote to determine which is best. It's suggested you test armor and endurance at the very least.
(AN: you have two of each vehicle, plus one additional unit of the L'Osseau of the mortar and gun carrier versions)
You had four months to conduct testing and initial outfitting, before your unit was seconded to the Order of Santiago so that they could continue crusading against the heathens, heretics, and pagans in Outreamer and continue their now three hundred year long war against the State of Al-Memphis. The reason this was anywhere near legal was because the Order of Santiago had, technically, been a state without land after some dodgy land appropriation deals and the unification of Peresciova, which the Galaceian government handled by letting the Order take partial suzerainty of the city of Bocha. It wasn't a one-way street, though: Galaceia legally couldn't have a navy, but the Order of Santiago had no such restriction. Everyone protested, but considering the third largest city in Galaceia was effectively a naval-bound March it wasn't too untenable.
You still had to go out there eventually though. What was worse was you were also the batallion headquarters closest to Bocha, which was why you got this shitty job. Oh well.
It was about a month into your four month window that you got your response to the RFQ, and you had to groan. Each company had sent in two prototypes, and what was worse was that since the government had actually bought the damn things you were stuck with them for it.
The first entrant was by Elizade Automotive, and you had to hold your head in your hand. It was a standard three axle truck with an eight cylinder three liter v-block engine, and was up-armored with eight millimeter rolled steel on a ten millimeter spacer set in the frontal arc and four millimeter steel in the rest. A snorkel exited the top opposite the behind-cab smokestack, and between the two was a small gun nest equipped with an Irromine Smg.62 heavy machine gun on top with a good arc of fire over the frontal forty degrees. The vehicle possessed no chemical warfare resistance for the troops in the rear or the gunner, but the cab was protected by a chemical filter based around countering the big three war gasses through activated charcoal filters. The end design clocked in at about eight and a half tons, held the entire standard infantry squad with room to spare, and had rear exit. mac Vaermi loved it to bits at first sight, and firmly believed it would save the battalion's immortal souls.
The second design was the Irizar Bus Work's deign, which was a lot more capable in exchange for also being terribly heavy. A tracked design with a five cylinder flat opposed four liter engine, it was most notable for it's twenty millimeter front rolled plate and all-around twelve millimeter protection. Amphibious capability was done by raising a crew snorkel and a set of jumper cables to allow a second unit to provide power to the electric transmission while standing offboard as an auxillery power unit, and the entire vehicle was proof against chemical warfare and had air filtration done by a mechanical draw-through filtration system often used in mines. Weapons-wise, it had a pair of Slk.82 2cm autocannons, a long-barrel and high energy version of the venerable Slk.69 gun, as well as a pintle mounted autorifle. The end design clocked about thirteen and three quarters tons dry, held the infantry squad in acceptable discomfort, and had a set of rear barn doors to exit from. Siemprevides liked the design a lot, but was sad it didn't have a shell-firing gun to work with.
The third design was produced by L'Osseau, Galaceia division. Designed around a very basic four-wheel chassis and overbuilt suspension, this design was powered by a six-cylinder inline four liter engine that had the traditional Balhk reliance on air cooling and a large oil reservoir. For protection, it had a six millimeter sheet steel cladding over the engine and driver's compartment, while the back had only three millimeters. Over the engine itself was an additional six millimeter plate, and the driver and cab passenger also had armored drop-down shutters. Fording was done by finding a bridge, since the design only had about forty centimeters of water it could clear before the engine bay flooded and the thing stalled out. Chemical protection was likewise scarce, since the crew compartment was only sealed, not provided with a filtration system, and the passenger compartment was totally open. What made the design excel, though, was the degree of armament options afforded. The 'base' model carried a Kubachin Warrl heavy machine gun in 12.7mm set on a ring and pintel mount, but the open topped back let the vehicle be easily customized. The two extra demonstrated versions were equipped with a low velocity 75mm gun and an 88mm mortar, respectively, sacrificing their troop carrying capacity to do so. Their troop carrying capacity was their weakest suit, really, since they could only move six guys around at anything approaching safety, which meant if you adopted it you'd need to re-draw your ToE for any unit equipped with them. On the plus side, though, they were the cheapest by a massive margin, and only weighed five tons soaking wet and full of dudes.
The last design was the Ghermain Brothers Auto Galaceia group's submission, and it was a fucking box with treads. There was no other way to describe it. If it was any more of a box you'd need to compare it to a cardboard box, and watch the storage container loose. Powered by a four cylinder boxer with five liters of displacement, the Metal Box as everyone called it had the most impressive protection: twenty millimeters of armor plate in the front, albiet flat, with eight millimeters of armor everywhere else. The provided weapon was a single pintel mount for a machine-gun of your choice, which meant knowing your budget an autorifle was probably getting stuck up there. Fording was handled via a long snorkel and the crew getting told to hold their breaths, and chemical protection was via the same filtration system that was used on the Elizade- literally both made by the same company. The design actually fit twelve dudes, so your current squads would probably either get expanded or find shit to fill all that empty space with. As long as they didn't try cooking in them, they'd be fine.
Now all you had to do was find out how to determine which one was best, ideally without destroying them. Much. This was going to be tricky.
PLAN VOTE: Come up with a test vote to determine which is best. It's suggested you test armor and endurance at the very least.
(AN: you have two of each vehicle, plus one additional unit of the L'Osseau of the mortar and gun carrier versions)
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- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
MEHTAL BAWKSES
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
- Location
- San Juan Metro, Puerto Rico
we... wee're gonna have to take away some metal bawkses
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
whelp can we call it the Rhino for the LOLZ?
anyway which design should we put them through? Do we want to test them with high standards, moderate standards, or put them through simple tests?
As well as how easy is it to repair and maintan each of them? Not to mention what ammo and conditions can they work through? As well as be Amphibious? Can they survive under simple test fire?
anyway which design should we put them through? Do we want to test them with high standards, moderate standards, or put them through simple tests?
As well as how easy is it to repair and maintan each of them? Not to mention what ammo and conditions can they work through? As well as be Amphibious? Can they survive under simple test fire?
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Well, that's what writing a test is for. Pick what you think these vehicles should realistically be able to do, and then you'll get to see what they can do. I'll say now that a lot of the time numbers are deceptive- for example, 'under the hood' things like transmissions and ease of use for the driver are going to be big things that matter. I'll be handling a lot of this like I did for SACQ 3/2, so skimming whatever the next stage of a contest you're on is a good way to get ideas on what to do.
That said, though, as a general rule repair and matinence are two very different thing that you need to know about- repair is anything that requires Headquarters to throw a truck at you, while maintenance is making sure you can keep the assault vehicle rolling.
Task I Entrants Table
Winged_One²
SACQ Tablemaster
- Location
- Germany
| Entrant | Propulsion | Powertrain | Armor Front | Other Armor | Amphibious | Weapons | CBRN | Weight | Dismounts |
| Elizade Automotive | 3 axle truck | 3l V8 | 8mm rolled steel, 10mm spacer | 4mm rolled | Snorkel | Smg.62 (HMG) (40° arc) | Crew cab, charcoal filters | 8.5t | 11 (rear exit) |
| Irizar Bus Works | Tracked | 4l 5cyl opposed-piston electric transmission | 20mm | 12mm | Snorkel, buddy-power | Slk.82 (2cm) x2, Slk.69, pintle machine gun | Entire vehicle, overpressurization | 13.75 | 11, rear exit |
| L'Osseau, Galaceia division | 2 axle truck | 4l I6 | 6mm (+6mm engine) | 3mm | No | Kubachin Warrl HMG 88mm mortar or 75mm gun in exchange for dismounts | Sealed, no measures | 5t | 6 |
| Ghermain Brothers Auto Galaceia group | Tracks | 5l Boxer-4 | 20mm | 8mm | Snorkel and pray | Pintle mount machine gun (not included) | Charcoal filters | 6.5 | 12 |
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- Location
- San Juan Metro, Puerto Rico
So, looking at that handy chart, right now the Irizar entry looks like the winner already. Testing it first seems best.
- Location
- Kansas
How about a , I don't know, a basic endurance test? Drive em around for 4000 miles and record how often they break down and how long it takes to fix em. Better have em follow the same path as well. Also, wasn't one of our requirements being able to fit traincars?
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- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
I dunno, the
- Location
- Kansas
Hmm, the elizade automotive seems to be the more simple and reliable option, however.
Winged_One²
SACQ Tablemaster
- Location
- Germany
I like the Irizar mostly because it's fully filtered and overpressurized. And hope that there's a ton or two to be shaved off if we go down to a single Slk.82 and the pintle gun.
I also think the L'Osseau should not be invited for testing since it cannot ford and has no CRBN measures. Which I price higher than how easy it is to make a mortar carrier out of it, because I think a gun-mortar version of the Elizade or Ghermaine isn't that hard to make.
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All in favor of disqualifying the L'Osseau immediately, from this contest at least? That's a gun carrier, not a troop carrier. Also something we'll need in the long term given the terrain and our infantry weaponry, but not what we need right now.
Or do we want to see if they can enclose the passengers first?
The other three all seem workable, especially with a few modifications.
The Elizade can use some of it's spare space for a fourth axle for redundancy and better terrain tolerance, better CRBN, and maybe expanded weaponry (traverse, and possibly gunner protection and a coaxial grenade launcher for fire support and smoke screens, especially the latter being important for some extra protection with it's light armor). Important question though: It does use solid rubber tires, and not pressurized ones, right?
The Irizar can drop an MG and some armor to save weight. I'd also like to improve it's fording.
The Ghermain can actually add some weight (which boggles the mind with that kind of armor) for some better weapons and fording.
In terms of testing, a rally to start us off sounds good.
@Winged_One² , where did you get that the Elizade needs buddy power for it's fording?
Or do we want to see if they can enclose the passengers first?
The other three all seem workable, especially with a few modifications.
The Elizade can use some of it's spare space for a fourth axle for redundancy and better terrain tolerance, better CRBN, and maybe expanded weaponry (traverse, and possibly gunner protection and a coaxial grenade launcher for fire support and smoke screens, especially the latter being important for some extra protection with it's light armor). Important question though: It does use solid rubber tires, and not pressurized ones, right?
The Irizar can drop an MG and some armor to save weight. I'd also like to improve it's fording.
The Ghermain can actually add some weight (which boggles the mind with that kind of armor) for some better weapons and fording.
In terms of testing, a rally to start us off sounds good.
@Winged_One² , where did you get that the Elizade needs buddy power for it's fording?
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Winged_One²
SACQ Tablemaster
- Location
- Germany
If it's the same Ghermaine from 3/2, then it might have tiny issues like everyone needing to be smaller than 170cm or something like that. Last time, they couldn't into ergonomics.
Slipped into the second paragraph.
FC Error
Missileer
- Location
- Aware of where I am not
Irizar and GB both looks like promising options. The L'Osseau entry strikes me as more of a mortar carrier than battle taxi or IFV - maybe something for a future project, but we want to move madlads here, so it's a maybe but not hugely appealing. Maybe an initial round of testing - endurance, on- and off-road performance, dig up some troops and do mount/dismount tests, and then filter more finely from there?
- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
I agree with this
Counterargument is that we're working with limited budget, and need the budget we have for testing IFVs. Buying fuel and maintenance supplies for endurance-testing a vehicle we already know we're most likely going to fail doesn't help us. Better to discard them for now and tell them to come back when we're asking for weapons carriers, and test the vehicle when we actually have the spare budget for it, is my thinking.
- Location
- Kansas
How much money DO we have, anyway?
I'm actually mildly concerned that the Itizar and Gherimain have crap endurance. Maybe it's all the features these bloody things have.
I'm actually mildly concerned that the Itizar and Gherimain have crap endurance. Maybe it's all the features these bloody things have.
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Six and a half thousand kilometers is a bit much for endurance testing on your current budget: that would entail doing two and change laps around the perimeter of the country that isn't Naturally Occuring Boarders (the ocean in the north and Sorcicio Mountains in the southeast).
Testing is simultaneous.
It's the same guys, yeah. They have a branch of the company in Galaceia to get at that sweet sweet Thile export market without actually building in the decimated hellscape that is Thile. If the government ever gets cocky, you may end up deployed there on 'peacekeeping' missions.
Adding a fourth axle would actually make things a lot worse, because it uses fixed axles, which means that more axles equals less control over which tire is on the ground at what time. More importantly, the Elizade doesn't have a turret: it has a tripod with a standard tripod mount welded into the top of the cab. That's what restricts your arc of fire, not any mechanical limitations therin. Likewise, adding protection would mean adding a gun shield, which is a massive amount of work considering the current setup. Remember the Elizade is basically an existing truck with a new body and a shitload of caulking done to the driver's compartment- they didn't think they needed a totally new design, and more importantly think they couldn't tank the loss of some magical wunderwaffen if they didn't win the contract. L'Osseau and GBA can build fancier things because said fancier things are already in use at home or can have the home company reimburse them in case it doesn't work.
A few million dollars real, plus the batallion's war chest. Considering a round of 13.2 costs about six pesos and a liter of gasoline is about a dollar real, this isn't nearly as much cash as it looks like at first sniff.
- Location
- United States