Not necessarily viable - they'd know that the reactor was designed to produce plutonium, in fairly large quantities, which is weird for reactor designs as plutonium is harder to work with. Ironically, if plutonium RTGs were a thing, this would be easier to explain.
SACQ 23/9: NTR Edition
- Thread starter Winged_One²
- Start date
- Original
TortugaGreen
Constantly out of the loop
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We could say a bit more, and note it is intended for production of heavy elements for research purposes, as well as power generation. Leave out that the heavy elements are to be put into bombs, at least until we better understand him and are willing to reveal that.
- Location
- Oooooooh emotional roller coaster
Tentative thoughts:
Do not build a bomb per se. Bombs have delivery concerns we just don't care about yet: altimeters, arming switches, fail-safes*, et cetera. Instead, we should build an implosion device with the minimal payload that doesn't increase the risk of a misfire (~5kg?)
The new priority is preparing fort the test. Expect to nod and agree earnestly that the device suffers from limitations in its current form, and circulate some delivery concept sketches for first-generation and next-generation devices. This would also be a good time to ask the brass for advice on how they'd like the weapons integrated into an overall defense strategy, so that they can feel listened-to.
Do an early test once the engineers think a testing opportunity is likely to materially improve the chances of meeting the deadline (rather than just marginally improve them). Manage expectations from an early test accordingly. A gun-type device demonstration should be the fallback option if the initial test fails and our engineers just can't understand why, or can't do anything about it in a timely manner.
I'm not thrilled about running tests off a tiny stockpile, and it doesn't make sense in isolation, but my concerns are somewhat assuaged by the rate at which it is expected to accumulate.
- If we do bring in the reactor guy, I'd prefer not to leave him to be clever and infer what we're doing by himself. He should at least be told, "we believe there may be defense applications of the material. Because they relate to our defense, that fact is classified, any specifics of the applications are classified, the existence of a project working on these applications is classified, and any speculative ideas that may occur to you are also classified."
- Bring in the reactor guy. His work will improve our access to fissiles long-term. You have heard about how much I like fissiles, right?
-- Consider useful applications of heat besides electric power generation.
- Focus reactor design improvements on safety and efficiency of construction.
(*Remember that despite movies, a fail safe fails safe, i.e., not armed.)
Do not build a bomb per se. Bombs have delivery concerns we just don't care about yet: altimeters, arming switches, fail-safes*, et cetera. Instead, we should build an implosion device with the minimal payload that doesn't increase the risk of a misfire (~5kg?)
The new priority is preparing fort the test. Expect to nod and agree earnestly that the device suffers from limitations in its current form, and circulate some delivery concept sketches for first-generation and next-generation devices. This would also be a good time to ask the brass for advice on how they'd like the weapons integrated into an overall defense strategy, so that they can feel listened-to.
Do an early test once the engineers think a testing opportunity is likely to materially improve the chances of meeting the deadline (rather than just marginally improve them). Manage expectations from an early test accordingly. A gun-type device demonstration should be the fallback option if the initial test fails and our engineers just can't understand why, or can't do anything about it in a timely manner.
I'm not thrilled about running tests off a tiny stockpile, and it doesn't make sense in isolation, but my concerns are somewhat assuaged by the rate at which it is expected to accumulate.
- If we do bring in the reactor guy, I'd prefer not to leave him to be clever and infer what we're doing by himself. He should at least be told, "we believe there may be defense applications of the material. Because they relate to our defense, that fact is classified, any specifics of the applications are classified, the existence of a project working on these applications is classified, and any speculative ideas that may occur to you are also classified."
- Bring in the reactor guy. His work will improve our access to fissiles long-term. You have heard about how much I like fissiles, right?
-- Consider useful applications of heat besides electric power generation.
- Focus reactor design improvements on safety and efficiency of construction.
(*Remember that despite movies, a fail safe fails safe, i.e., not armed.)
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[X] Bring the new scientist in to work exclusively on the reactor portion of the project.
-[X] Make sure that the scientist is aware that everything they are working on for the project is highly, highly classified. The plutonium breeding functionality of the reactors is for research purposes, and anything more than that is classified beyond his work due to potential defense applications.
[X] Focus reactor design improvements on safety and efficiency of construction. Look into useful applications of reactor heat beyond electrical power generation.
[X] Plan Trinity
-[X] Get started on making sure that we can be certain that an implosion-type device will detonate uniformly. We're only going to get 1, maybe 2 shots at making a working device, so making sure that it will work is important.
-[X] Implosion device, using as little uranium as the scientists think we can use and still be 100% certain that it will still detonate when triggered, assuming that the implosive timing is not off. Ignore any constraints on the design related to deploying the device as needed - we need to prove that this will work, but even a test device will hopefully be sufficient for the deadline.
-[X] Make sure that the scientist is aware that everything they are working on for the project is highly, highly classified. The plutonium breeding functionality of the reactors is for research purposes, and anything more than that is classified beyond his work due to potential defense applications.
[X] Focus reactor design improvements on safety and efficiency of construction. Look into useful applications of reactor heat beyond electrical power generation.
[X] Plan Trinity
-[X] Get started on making sure that we can be certain that an implosion-type device will detonate uniformly. We're only going to get 1, maybe 2 shots at making a working device, so making sure that it will work is important.
-[X] Implosion device, using as little uranium as the scientists think we can use and still be 100% certain that it will still detonate when triggered, assuming that the implosive timing is not off. Ignore any constraints on the design related to deploying the device as needed - we need to prove that this will work, but even a test device will hopefully be sufficient for the deadline.
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I don't think we care about whether or not this device can be air droped as a bomb quite yet as much as we care about it working the first time and being built quickly. To that end, I would favor conceptualizing this as less a deploy-able bomb, and more the core parts of a bomb surrounded by a shed full of equipment that, collectively, we expect to successfully explode. We can refine that into a bomb later, and if we need one to actually be used ASAP, we either throw together a gun type device, or we put the next exploding shed on a boat. For taking out an invasion fleet, something configured as a sort of nuclear fireship. For second strike capability (at the risk of significant political and economic backlash), some terribly generic freighter that could smuggle it somewhere at need under a false flag.
Winged_One²
SACQ Tablemaster
- Location
- Germany
I don't like giving out information about this stuff as QM, but like it even less if you derp because someone made a mistake and everyone ran with it. Implosion types based of Uranium do in fact work.
Historical note: that's what The Gadget, the device fired during Trinity, was. The device within Fat Man ended up lighter and a bit smaller, but Fat Man was considerably larger and heavier because of the added requirements of being a bomb.
Plan edited to take this into account.
I had kind of figured, in part because Children of a Dead Earth has player designable nukes, and the go-to fissile for that is U-233. U-235 works just about as well (a bit better, actually), but due to the way the game's economy works, U-233 is much cheaper per kilo of material, which allows for equally powerful bombs to be cheaper.
Burning Baron
This position needs more entrenching.
- Location
- In here, not out there.
Times like this make me wish I had my copy of The Day the Sun Rose Twice out of storage. It had good info on startup Manhattan Project efforts. Including the guy who almost killed himself by lethal dose of radiation.
[X]Take in new scientist
-[X]Run a vetting process to find out exactly who they are first
-[X]inform them of the classification of elements of this facility, but reveal nothing.
[X] Focus reactor design improvements on safety and efficiency of construction. Look into useful applications of reactor heat beyond electrical power generation
-[X]perhaps a secondary means of power generation
Mostly so if something goes catastrophic then there's a useful and clean source of backup power. I'm not an engineer, but maybe by using induction heat to power a second set of turbines that run to capacitor banks. Like, say, if we have a runaway reaction or fire that forces a shutdown. Backups for backups of backups. Plan B, C, D, E
[X]Bomb details
-[X]We need to actually build a bomb or proof of concept first. But we can't drag our feet either, what with the guvmint doing a politics.
[X]Take in new scientist
-[X]Run a vetting process to find out exactly who they are first
-[X]inform them of the classification of elements of this facility, but reveal nothing.
[X] Focus reactor design improvements on safety and efficiency of construction. Look into useful applications of reactor heat beyond electrical power generation
-[X]perhaps a secondary means of power generation
Mostly so if something goes catastrophic then there's a useful and clean source of backup power. I'm not an engineer, but maybe by using induction heat to power a second set of turbines that run to capacitor banks. Like, say, if we have a runaway reaction or fire that forces a shutdown. Backups for backups of backups. Plan B, C, D, E
[X]Bomb details
-[X]We need to actually build a bomb or proof of concept first. But we can't drag our feet either, what with the guvmint doing a politics.
CthuluWasRight
Fresh Meat for the SV Grinder
- Location
- Canada
[X] Bring the new scientist in to work exclusively on the reactor portion of the project.
-[X] Make sure that the scientist is aware that everything they are working on for the project is highly, highly classified. The plutonium breeding functionality of the reactors is for research purposes, and anything more than that is classified beyond his work due to potential defense applications.
[X] Focus reactor design improvements on safety and efficiency of construction. Look into useful applications of reactor heat beyond electrical power generation.
[X] Plan Trinity
-[X] Get started on making sure that we can be certain that an implosion-type device will detonate uniformly. We're only going to get 1, maybe 2 shots at making a working device, so making sure that it will work is important.
-[X] Implosion device, using as little uranium as the scientists think we can use and still be 100% certain that it will still detonate when triggered, assuming that the implosive timing is not off. Ignore any constraints on the design related to deploying the device as needed - we need to prove that this will work, but even a test device will hopefully be sufficient for the deadline.
-[X] Make sure that the scientist is aware that everything they are working on for the project is highly, highly classified. The plutonium breeding functionality of the reactors is for research purposes, and anything more than that is classified beyond his work due to potential defense applications.
[X] Focus reactor design improvements on safety and efficiency of construction. Look into useful applications of reactor heat beyond electrical power generation.
[X] Plan Trinity
-[X] Get started on making sure that we can be certain that an implosion-type device will detonate uniformly. We're only going to get 1, maybe 2 shots at making a working device, so making sure that it will work is important.
-[X] Implosion device, using as little uranium as the scientists think we can use and still be 100% certain that it will still detonate when triggered, assuming that the implosive timing is not off. Ignore any constraints on the design related to deploying the device as needed - we need to prove that this will work, but even a test device will hopefully be sufficient for the deadline.
TortugaGreen
Constantly out of the loop
- Pronouns
- She/Her
looks good to me.
[X] Bring the new scientist in to work exclusively on the reactor portion of the project.
-[X] Make sure that the scientist is aware that everything they are working on for the project is highly, highly classified. The plutonium breeding functionality of the reactors is for research purposes, and anything more than that is classified beyond his work due to potential defense applications.
[X] Focus reactor design improvements on safety and efficiency of construction. Look into useful applications of reactor heat beyond electrical power generation.
[X] Plan Trinity
-[X] Get started on making sure that we can be certain that an implosion-type device will detonate uniformly. We're only going to get 1, maybe 2 shots at making a working device, so making sure that it will work is important.
-[X] Implosion device, using as little uranium as the scientists think we can use and still be 100% certain that it will still detonate when triggered, assuming that the implosive timing is not off. Ignore any constraints on the design related to deploying the device as needed - we need to prove that this will work, but even a test device will hopefully be sufficient for the deadline.
[X] Bring the new scientist in to work exclusively on the reactor portion of the project.
-[X] Make sure that the scientist is aware that everything they are working on for the project is highly, highly classified. The plutonium breeding functionality of the reactors is for research purposes, and anything more than that is classified beyond his work due to potential defense applications.
[X] Focus reactor design improvements on safety and efficiency of construction. Look into useful applications of reactor heat beyond electrical power generation.
[X] Plan Trinity
-[X] Get started on making sure that we can be certain that an implosion-type device will detonate uniformly. We're only going to get 1, maybe 2 shots at making a working device, so making sure that it will work is important.
-[X] Implosion device, using as little uranium as the scientists think we can use and still be 100% certain that it will still detonate when triggered, assuming that the implosive timing is not off. Ignore any constraints on the design related to deploying the device as needed - we need to prove that this will work, but even a test device will hopefully be sufficient for the deadline.
[X] Bring the new scientist in to work exclusively on the reactor portion of the project.
-[X] Make sure that the scientist is aware that everything they are working on for the project is highly, highly classified. The plutonium breeding functionality of the reactors is for research purposes, and anything more than that is classified beyond his work due to potential defense applications.
[X] Focus reactor design improvements on safety and efficiency of construction. Look into useful applications of reactor heat beyond electrical power generation.
[X] Plan Trinity
-[X] Get started on making sure that we can be certain that an implosion-type device will detonate uniformly. We're only going to get 1, maybe 2 shots at making a working device, so making sure that it will work is important.
-[X] Implosion device, using as little uranium as the scientists think we can use and still be 100% certain that it will still detonate when triggered, assuming that the implosive timing is not off. Ignore any constraints on the design related to deploying the device as needed - we need to prove that this will work, but even a test device will hopefully be sufficient for the deadline.
-[X] Make sure that the scientist is aware that everything they are working on for the project is highly, highly classified. The plutonium breeding functionality of the reactors is for research purposes, and anything more than that is classified beyond his work due to potential defense applications.
[X] Focus reactor design improvements on safety and efficiency of construction. Look into useful applications of reactor heat beyond electrical power generation.
[X] Plan Trinity
-[X] Get started on making sure that we can be certain that an implosion-type device will detonate uniformly. We're only going to get 1, maybe 2 shots at making a working device, so making sure that it will work is important.
-[X] Implosion device, using as little uranium as the scientists think we can use and still be 100% certain that it will still detonate when triggered, assuming that the implosive timing is not off. Ignore any constraints on the design related to deploying the device as needed - we need to prove that this will work, but even a test device will hopefully be sufficient for the deadline.
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
[X] Bring the new scientist in to work exclusively on the reactor portion of the project.
-[X] Make sure that the scientist is aware that everything they are working on for the project is highly, highly classified. The plutonium breeding functionality of the reactors is for research purposes, and anything more than that is classified beyond his work due to potential defense applications.
[X] Focus reactor design improvements on safety and efficiency of construction. Look into useful applications of reactor heat beyond electrical power generation.
[X] Plan Trinity
-[X] Get started on making sure that we can be certain that an implosion-type device will detonate uniformly. We're only going to get 1, maybe 2 shots at making a working device, so making sure that it will work is important.
-[X] Implosion device, using as little uranium as the scientists think we can use and still be 100% certain that it will still detonate when triggered, assuming that the implosive timing is not off. Ignore any constraints on the design related to deploying the device as needed - we need to prove that this will work, but even a test device will hopefully be sufficient for the deadline.
-[X] Make sure that the scientist is aware that everything they are working on for the project is highly, highly classified. The plutonium breeding functionality of the reactors is for research purposes, and anything more than that is classified beyond his work due to potential defense applications.
[X] Focus reactor design improvements on safety and efficiency of construction. Look into useful applications of reactor heat beyond electrical power generation.
[X] Plan Trinity
-[X] Get started on making sure that we can be certain that an implosion-type device will detonate uniformly. We're only going to get 1, maybe 2 shots at making a working device, so making sure that it will work is important.
-[X] Implosion device, using as little uranium as the scientists think we can use and still be 100% certain that it will still detonate when triggered, assuming that the implosive timing is not off. Ignore any constraints on the design related to deploying the device as needed - we need to prove that this will work, but even a test device will hopefully be sufficient for the deadline.