That was this last turn. It does not follow that it will occur every turn or in the same quantities. Economic Growth is a stat on our Territory Sheet, so we know it is at least fairly stable. Population Growth is not and might be much more variable, counting on a linear increase in the same way as Economic Growth is a potentially bad mistake.
But as a separate option from normal lowering of taxes. I suspect a second lowering of taxes will help morale, but not as much as the first one, and there's no guarantee as it isn't a listed consequence of the action.
But as a separate option from normal lowering of taxes. I suspect a second lowering of taxes will help morale, but not as much as the first one, and there's no guarantee as it isn't a listed consequence of the action.
Also note that the 75% -> 65% isn't the same as the 10% economic improvement from the townhall stimulus.
If your current growth rate reduction is 75% then that means our base economic improvement is actually 40%.
The Town Hall stimulus would presumably increase that base to 50% for a net 2.5% after the reduction.
Using the tax decrease would yield a new economic rate of 14% or a net increase of 4%.
Doing both would end up with a 17.5% economic growth.
Unfortunately we are missing the gross economic output of our territory as well as the tax rate. With just the current tax revenue number the flat reduction of 5,000 imperials means that none of these options ever actually make a profit over just leaving things as they are.
Edit: I did just notice that both the spirit stone mine and the alchemy hall provide a +20 economic growth. So that's confirmation of that 40% base at least.
Oh wow, you're right. I totally misinterpreted how that worked.
I do think the two are intended to have the same effect and the wording is just a tad imprecise, but yeah, just reducing the reduction makes the economic gains significantly lower. Still worth doing once to increase morale, I think.
Oh wow, you're right. I totally misinterpreted how that worked.
I do think the two are intended to have the same effect and the wording is just a tad imprecise, but yeah, just reducing the reduction makes the economic gains significantly lower. Still worth doing once to increase morale, I think.
Well they're actually two different things. One increase the base growth rate. And one reduces the reduction rate. They're also both called a stimulus which makes referring to them separately kind of difficult. Still I think I may have been interpreting them incorrectly. If they are a stimulus and not a tax decrease like I thought, then it should be possible for me to calculate the long term impacts.
Increasing the base would result in a net profit on turn 10.
Reducing the reduction result in a net profit on turn 8.
Doing both would also result in a net profit on turn 8, but at the cost of about 20k less imperials up to that point and with the benefit of a much better growth rate afterwards.
This assumes that the stimulus is a flat expense and doesn't vary based on population and taxes.
We lose the town hall stimulus if we don't do it this turn. So we should definitely take it if we can do both. If we can only do one then the standard stimulus is better. There's no significant different between doing both now, and doing one now and one next turn.
Just to clarify some details, economic growth is based on your "standard tax rate" Imperial Income. So if you are at 11k, drop to 1k from using all the stimulus options, you grow based on 11k not 1k.
Similarly, economic growth is a major motivation for immigration. Even more than "are people happy" so that is what I emphasized. Immigrants will suffer racism and other evils for reliable access to a job that covers their needs. They will even break the law to get into an economic situation that keeps their bellies full.
Things like morale and safety are both relevant but I'm probably not going to mention them unless you start dipping in terms of the primary reason is economic for the immigration.
RE: Me liking stuff.
I like everything to encourage discussion, its not meant to be a confirmation that its 100% accurate or I agree with the position.
If you have any other clarifications you need, just @ me.
Just to clarify some details, economic growth is based on your "standard tax rate" Imperial Income. So if you are at 11k, drop to 1k from using all the stimulus options, you grow based on 11k not 1k.
Similarly, economic growth is a major motivation for immigration. Even more than "are people happy" so that is what I emphasized. Immigrants will suffer racism and other evils for reliable access to a job that covers their needs. They will even break the law to get into an economic situation that keeps their bellies full.
Things like morale and safety are both relevant but I'm probably not going to mention them unless you start dipping in terms of the primary reason is economic for the immigration.
RE: Me liking stuff.
I like everything to encourage discussion, its not meant to be a confirmation that its 100% accurate or I agree with the position.
If you have any other clarifications you need, just @ me.
I think it's more 'has a growing economy'. They don't really care how we did it, just that we did.
We can probably also ameliorate it by sharing our wealth and/or techniques for gaining wealth. Though we want to do that somewhat selectively, of course.
Currently the vote is really close, so I'm going to give it a bit more time to see if things change.
Adhoc vote count started by Abydon on Mar 25, 2023 at 9:06 AM, finished with 47 posts and 10 votes.
[X] Plan The People's Needs
- [X] Rumors of commoner unrest. Severity increases if left unattended, increasing severity required of response.
--- [X] Implement Stimulus (-5000 Imperials/Turn, +10% Economic Growth)
- [X] A whistleblower has approached you about the spirit stone mine. (Diplomacy)
- [X] Establish Artifice Hall (Step 2)
- [X] Cultivate: Gain +11 Power (110% Cultivation Speed)
-- [X] Use Foundation Establishment Spirit Stone Supply for +30% Cultivation Speed (+3 Power)
- [X] Quest: Improve Affinity by 20%
--- [X] Fire
--- [X] Life
[X] Plan Death and Taxes
- [X] Rumors of commoner unrest. Severity increases if left unattended, increasing severity required of response.
--- [X] Implement Stimulus (-5000 Imperials/Turn, +10% Economic Growth)
- [X] A whistleblower has approached you about the spirit stone mine. (Diplomacy)
- [X] Financial Stimulus
- [X] Cultivate: Gain +11 Power (110% Cultivation Speed)
-- [X] Use Foundation Establishment Spirit Stone Supply for +30% Cultivation Speed (+3 Power)
- [X] Quest: Improve Affinity by 20%
--- [X] Fire
--- [X] Life
[X] Plan Stimulus, Spy Network, and Whistleblower
- [X] Rumors of commoner unrest. Severity increases if left unattended, increasing severity required of response.
--- [X] Implement Stimulus (-5000 Imperials/Turn, +10% Economic Growth)
- [X] A whistleblower has approached you about the spirit stone mine. (Diplomacy)
- [X] Establish Spy Network
- [X] Cultivate: Gain +11 Power (110% Cultivation Speed)
-- [X] Use Foundation Establishment Spirit Stone Supply for +30% Cultivation Speed (+3 Power)
- [X] Quest: Improve Affinity by 20%
--- [X] Fire
--- [X] Life
Okay closing the vote, may be a bit for a post but I should have it before tomorrow hopefully
Scheduled vote count started by Abydon on Mar 24, 2023 at 11:25 AM, finished with 50 posts and 11 votes.
[X] Plan The People's Needs
- [X] Rumors of commoner unrest. Severity increases if left unattended, increasing severity required of response.
--- [X] Implement Stimulus (-5000 Imperials/Turn, +10% Economic Growth)
- [X] A whistleblower has approached you about the spirit stone mine. (Diplomacy)
- [X] Establish Artifice Hall (Step 2)
- [X] Cultivate: Gain +11 Power (110% Cultivation Speed)
-- [X] Use Foundation Establishment Spirit Stone Supply for +30% Cultivation Speed (+3 Power)
- [X] Quest: Improve Affinity by 20%
--- [X] Fire
--- [X] Life
[X] Plan Death and Taxes
- [X] Rumors of commoner unrest. Severity increases if left unattended, increasing severity required of response.
--- [X] Implement Stimulus (-5000 Imperials/Turn, +10% Economic Growth)
- [X] A whistleblower has approached you about the spirit stone mine. (Diplomacy)
- [X] Financial Stimulus
- [X] Cultivate: Gain +11 Power (110% Cultivation Speed)
-- [X] Use Foundation Establishment Spirit Stone Supply for +30% Cultivation Speed (+3 Power)
- [X] Quest: Improve Affinity by 20%
--- [X] Fire
--- [X] Life
[X] Plan Stimulus, Spy Network, and Whistleblower
- [X] Rumors of commoner unrest. Severity increases if left unattended, increasing severity required of response.
--- [X] Implement Stimulus (-5000 Imperials/Turn, +10% Economic Growth)
- [X] A whistleblower has approached you about the spirit stone mine. (Diplomacy)
- [X] Establish Spy Network
- [X] Cultivate: Gain +11 Power (110% Cultivation Speed)
-- [X] Use Foundation Establishment Spirit Stone Supply for +30% Cultivation Speed (+3 Power)
- [X] Quest: Improve Affinity by 20%
--- [X] Fire
--- [X] Life
[X] Plan The People's Needs
- [X] Rumors of commoner unrest. Severity increases if left unattended, increasing severity required of response.
--- [X] Implement Stimulus (-5000 Imperials/Turn, +10% Economic Growth)
- [X] A whistleblower has approached you about the spirit stone mine. (Diplomacy)
- [X] Establish Artifice Hall (Step 2)
- [X] Cultivate: Gain +11 Power (110% Cultivation Speed)
-- [X] Use Foundation Establishment Spirit Stone Supply for +30% Cultivation Speed (+3 Power)
- [X] Quest: Improve Affinity by 20%
--- [X] Fire
--- [X] Life
Yufei and his ministers developed a stimulus program that would lower taxes for the poor as well as subsidize the farmers to secure food supplies in the coming war, if it arrived. Farmers now have large bulk purchases by the government for rice, beans, and other vegetables to feed the poor. Its subsistence eating but at least they are not skipping meals because of a lack of coin anymore. The lower taxes might allow those that are employed to afford a little meat now that they are not paying for the essentials to not starve.
This is well received and morale is good among the common people. There is muttering among the nobles about government intervention in the economy but it is just muttering. Nothing that would culminate in action as long as you were not too kind to the common man.
Mine Takeover
Yufei's informat, Fang Li, provided all the ledgers and proof that was needed to raid the family compound of the Wang family. The minor nobles responsible for managing the spirit stone mine. Originals were found that provide Fang Li's evidence to be both valid and correct. The income the Wang family reported for tax purposes was not what was on their official family ledgers. Tax evasion was enough for an execution of the head of a noble house. To compound that with the entire family being involved in covering up the fact spirit stone production being higher than had been reported for years? That was grounds to strip of them of their titles and leave them as penniless commoners.
[][Wang Family] Execute the head of household and leave the rest of the family penniless stripped of their titles. (Fair Justice, everyone agrees this was reasonable and expected)
[][Wang Family] Strip everyone of their titles and leave them penniless. No need to kill anybody. (Merciful Justice, the nobles approve and the common man mutters about favoritism. A very, very minor adjustment to common opinion to improve noble opinion.)
[][Wang Family] Execute all of them. They stole from your family for close to a decade. An example must be made. (Harsh Justice, the nobles disapprove but no better than to say so in public. Commoners are ecstatic that nobles suffered the kind of justice they are used to. Significant shift in commoner opinion to the positive at the cost of Noble opinion)
Artifice Hall
Progress was made far faster than expected on arranging the supply lines that would bring cultivator-grade materials to Yufei's artificers for fair prices. If Yufei had been a skilled artificer, he would have realized he was easily paying 10% over what the stuff was worth but it is what it is. A little corruption never hurt anyone.
The Artifice Hall is now operational and next year the first Treasures will be produced. (Shopping for Core Formation or lower treasures no longer suffers transportation risk or scarcity cost penalties)
In addition, a unique master had offered to work in the frontier so he could relax in his retirement in the countryside.
[][Master] Ji Ying
Considered a penny pincher by many, he can maximize the ROI in Treasure and Talisman production. While Yufei lacks the appropriate skills to significantly improve the economy with good deals, Ji Ying does and will help. (+20% Economic Growth modifier, reduced to 5% due to current economic situation. Cannot be improved by learning Artificer Skills personally.)
[][Master] Ling Fe
A master of the Talisman. His one use Treasures are powerful and he will train the two young masters who also work in the Hall as part of his employment. Stonehaven will be known for its Talismans. This is a significant advantage in the marketplace as quality work is important to cultivators. (+10% Economic Growth modifier, reduced to 2.5% due to current economic situation. Can be improved by Yufei learning Artificer skills. Talismans provide +5 to their effect rolls.)
[][Master] Hu Wang
A master of the Sword. It is a narrow focus for an Artificer but his flying and combat swords are significantly better than the rest. He is the only master of this set to be known throughout the Empire for his skill. The problem is, the quality comes at signifcant cost so it does not really help the economy at large. (Swords created in your Artifice Hall provide +10 above what they would normally. However, the extra materials costs will not make this an effective way to grow your economy.)
Cultivation
Power was important to a cultivator and while Yufei longed to form his core, he knew he needed a good foundation to maximize the power it provides. To be weak against assassins or less than perfect in his primary element was not acceptable. He needed to grow stronger. (+13 Power)
Quest: Life Affinity (0/5)
Things went...wrong when Yufei practiced what he thought would improve his Life affinity. It was not a total disaster as Yufei put an end to the experiment before anyone saw. Still, it left him with an undesirable corruption of his Life affinity. A corruption that might not be detected by anyone in the province but still a risk socially even if it offered power in its own way.
[][Life Failure] Undeath Affinity 20: Yufei has gained an affinity for turning the living into the living dead. It should not have been possible to "accidentally" gain an affinity but he managed it somehow. He can animate simple zombies and ghouls and suspects the limit on his control is massive. A small army at a minimum could be raised and completely loyal to him. They could outnumber his household troops if he really wanted to go down such a dark path. (3% Risk of Discovery each turn, Discovery will result in arrest as the dangers of self-propagating troops are well known as they always get out of from their owners control eventually. If by growing too numerous, if nothing else. Extremely powerful if you make it to the Civil War undetected. This becomes an individual quest for a bit when the arrest happens and he escapes. He'll have to rebuild without resources.)
[][Life Failure] Dark Affinity 20: The ability to drain the life from his enemies was something Yufei never considered. It resembled death affinity in that it was weaker than the more normal affinities but it offered advantages. He could drain Power from cultivators and add it to his own. Even in the middle of battle. However, without proper techniques the effects would be temporary but the potential is there. (3% Risk of Discovery each turn, Discovery will result in arrest as cultivators feeding off other human cultivators is forbidden and that is the only reason to have a Dark affinity. Significant advantage in combat if you make it to the Civil War undetected. This becomes an individual quest for a bit when the arrest happens and he escapes. He'll have to rebuild without resources.)
[][Life Failure] Purged: Yufei purged his soul of the corruption before it could take root but at a cost. His cultivation was now fundamentally damaged and he would no longer be able to strengthen his Life Affinity before the next Realm. He would need skills that were simply unavailable to him now to heal himself. If he asked for help, he risked people assuming he did this as part of an intentional attempt to learn a forbidden element. (No risk of discovery if he waits. 30% chance of being turned in if attempts to acquire help to solve this problem)
Quest: Fire (2/5)
A secret chamber was prepared with properly locked doors. A place of contemplation that would allow Yufei to focus on binding Fire Qi to his body and then filter it into his soul. The process was painful as he was forced to heal himself even as his flesh burned. A lesser man would have given up on such a painful technique but not Yufei. Yufei had a mission to grow stronger before the War came. He would see it through. (+1 Qi Affinity progress)
Well, Life aside that went well. Life is...more of a problem. Shit.
First, the easy stuff:
[X][Wang Family] Strip everyone of their titles and leave them penniless. No need to kill anybody.
We're doing a lot to improve commoner opinion, let's take the opportunity to not alienate the nobles. The Wang won't be able to achieve anything retributive without money anyway, and alienating other nobles is a great way to have enemies we don't want to deal with.
[X][Master] Ling Fe
We need other treasures more than we need swords, and we definitely want some economic increase, and ideally even more if we learn artifice.
Now, for the life things: Firstly, a 3% chance every turn winds up with about a 30% chance of being caught over the remaining time pre-war...but worse because it likely results in more time spent building up the thing we then lose, and I honestly think we don't want either of those Affinities. So, I'm going with #3.
[X][Life Failure] Purged:
Whether we decide to seek help is another matter...I'm fine either way but we should do so immediately if we do, so we have more of a chance to recover afterward. We could also just choose not to worry about going in with 'only' an 80 Affinity, as the difference is only +2 to +4 at most. That's honestly where I'm leaning, though I could be convinced.
Why? That has a very real risk of getting us caught, the same chance as us seeking a cure would, only (as I said) worse because it likely kicks in after we spend more time building up a domain we then lose. If we're gonna get caught, it's better to get caught now.
Why? That has a very real risk of getting us caught, the same chance as us seeking a cure would, only (as I said) worse because it likely kicks in after we spend more time building up a domain we then lose. If we're gonna get caught, it's better to get caught now.
We gain an affinity. With the cost of potentially being discovered and incentive to try to squash that probability down.
In addition those are the only options that don't just screw over our plan of getting life affinity 100%, where you said yourself specialization is key. (Against my protestations no less)
Its fairly reasonable odds, for a good reward, and avoids screwing over our plan.
[X][Wang Family] Execute the head of household and leave the rest of the family penniless stripped of their titles. (Fair Justice, everyone agrees this was reasonable and expected)
[X][Master] Ling Fe
[X][Life Failure] Undeath Affinity 20
[][Life Failure] Dark Affinity 20
Note this isn't unfixable. At Worst, All it does is temporarily change our circumstances, which we can deal with.
