If possible, I'd lean towards asking the Pentri nobles to raise a militia to defend Bovianum while we're gone, and then ask Himatus to find us a number of loyal volunteers to serve as scouts. The optics would be better regarding our promise, and local scouts would help counteract one of Gemino's advantages. (Assuming they are in fact loyal, of course.)
Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Original Historic
- Location
- Central Europe
Lets analyse Gemino's situation: He has 3 Targets we could attack/defend:
The Enemy in the West and any Write-in aiming to catch Gemino before he enters the Valley of Vulturnus will probably have to contend with these dice modifiers:
Our Boni: +2 (Accomplished Military) + 1 (Gift of Minerva) + 2 (Gallic Cavalry) +1 (Skilled)= 6 (There is some narrative potential for an additional +1 or +2 from 'Allied Samnites', 'Marius Himatus' and/or outnumbering him)
Gemino Boni: +4 (Renowned Military) +2 (Home Turf) +4 (Renowned Command) = 10
I favor attacking the 'Western Towns', Gemino's new powerbase, in some capacity. They are described as 'falling behind him almost to a man'. Which probably means that most or even all of their forces are away with Gemino. Burning, raiding and pillaging the hometowns of Gemino's newest recruits could force him to turn back. We could compound this by sending most of our forces to block the pass to Aesernia.
That said there are certain risks here: Doing this could provoke a stronger Samnite response then we might want. Uprisings in Bovanium and/or an attack from Tercerian. Also splitting our forces is dangerous. If Gemino manages to catch the forces we send to attack the western towns by surprise, the main force would most likely be to far away to assist.
[] Write-In: The Might of Rome
The main force lead by ourselves, consisting of the 3rd, 6th and 9th Cohorts plus the Gallic auxiliaries and the Noble levy sets of as soon as possible to cut off Gemino from the Valley of the Vulturnus. The Gaul are used to scout and if possible hinder Gemino's movements. Meanwhile a smaller force consisting of Pompolussa's 2nd and the Samnite Auxillaries will remain behind at Bovanium. Pompolussa should move out to attack Geminos powerbase in the western towns, once the forces send by Sertorius arrive. How many cohorts he takes with him on this task should depend on his assessment of the direct threat to the region around Bovanium. Regarding the case that no assistance from Sertorius arrives, we advise him to risk it and leave only the Auxilaries behind. Once the main force has positioned itself between Gemino and the entrance to the Valley, their next goal is to force the Rebels into battle. During this second phase the main force should be on guard for the two most likely eventualities: Gemino trying to go around them and him going after Pompolussa's force.
I honestly, don't know if I like this better than The Enemy in the West. It definitely seems riskier, but I wanted to create a write-in abusing Geminio's reliance on his new powerbase. Maybe someone has a better idea how to utilize this.
Edit: Changed the Write-in
- His current powerbase: The western towns.
- His short-term goal: The Samnite army in Aesernia.
- His long-term goal: Bovanium.
The Enemy in the West and any Write-in aiming to catch Gemino before he enters the Valley of Vulturnus will probably have to contend with these dice modifiers:
Our Boni: +2 (Accomplished Military) + 1 (Gift of Minerva) + 2 (Gallic Cavalry) +1 (Skilled)= 6 (There is some narrative potential for an additional +1 or +2 from 'Allied Samnites', 'Marius Himatus' and/or outnumbering him)
Gemino Boni: +4 (Renowned Military) +2 (Home Turf) +4 (Renowned Command) = 10
I favor attacking the 'Western Towns', Gemino's new powerbase, in some capacity. They are described as 'falling behind him almost to a man'. Which probably means that most or even all of their forces are away with Gemino. Burning, raiding and pillaging the hometowns of Gemino's newest recruits could force him to turn back. We could compound this by sending most of our forces to block the pass to Aesernia.
That said there are certain risks here: Doing this could provoke a stronger Samnite response then we might want. Uprisings in Bovanium and/or an attack from Tercerian. Also splitting our forces is dangerous. If Gemino manages to catch the forces we send to attack the western towns by surprise, the main force would most likely be to far away to assist.
[] Write-In: The Might of Rome
The main force lead by ourselves, consisting of the 3rd, 6th and 9th Cohorts plus the Gallic auxiliaries and the Noble levy sets of as soon as possible to cut off Gemino from the Valley of the Vulturnus. The Gaul are used to scout and if possible hinder Gemino's movements. Meanwhile a smaller force consisting of Pompolussa's 2nd and the Samnite Auxillaries will remain behind at Bovanium. Pompolussa should move out to attack Geminos powerbase in the western towns, once the forces send by Sertorius arrive. How many cohorts he takes with him on this task should depend on his assessment of the direct threat to the region around Bovanium. Regarding the case that no assistance from Sertorius arrives, we advise him to risk it and leave only the Auxilaries behind. Once the main force has positioned itself between Gemino and the entrance to the Valley, their next goal is to force the Rebels into battle. During this second phase the main force should be on guard for the two most likely eventualities: Gemino trying to go around them and him going after Pompolussa's force.
I honestly, don't know if I like this better than The Enemy in the West. It definitely seems riskier, but I wanted to create a write-in abusing Geminio's reliance on his new powerbase. Maybe someone has a better idea how to utilize this.
Edit: Changed the Write-in
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- Location
- Europe
Ok, I'm back quicker than anticipated.
First of all, isn't it cool that a Roman emperor more than two-hundred years from now is quoting Atellus' speech? That he delivered one if not the most forward example of a speech to get rebellious tribes back into the fold?
Unless we bungle the two following battles I expect out reputation in Rome to rise.
Also I love that mental image of a stewing Gemino. I'm sure after we sent a cohort after him he had thought us pecked. Typical arrogant Roman, as inexperienced as our age would suggest. Write a letter and taunt him, then run circles around him.
Hah, we showed him.
So, the vote
I mean, we could lie to him, but that might just mean that he double crosses us and links up with Gemino. A victorious Gemino Tercerian might be able to deal with, but if Rome triumphs his days are numbered.
Frankly I would be for this if we had a more experienced army and Atellus was more skilled in logistics and command. That's something I'd do when we reach Caesar in Gaul level.
And of course our men wouldn't be as exhausted as if they would be if we stole the march on Gemino and reached the valley first.
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Five hundred Romans will likely dissuade anyone from rising up.
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The auxiliaries had only a few weeks of training, so while I expect them to stay loyal, I also expect them to flee rather quickly come battle.
Leaves Sertorius and the noble levies of which I'm in favour. Asking Sertorius might just be the hint he needs to get that we need a bit of time and it would also likely provide us with the most experienced men next to the noble levies.
Noble levies for two reasons. First, Samnite scouts. We made an effort to work with the traditional Samnite elite, I think we can count on them. Second, they likely hate Gemino with intensity. The rabble of Bovianum, sure they were starving. But so were the nobles and Gemino was also harassing and pillaging their lands and their estates.
It might be a risk, after all we can't be sure how many we can raise (although I expect our new Orator trait to help here), but whatever we raise I expect to be of quality and be damn loyal.
My thoughts on the matter.
First of all, isn't it cool that a Roman emperor more than two-hundred years from now is quoting Atellus' speech? That he delivered one if not the most forward example of a speech to get rebellious tribes back into the fold?
Unless we bungle the two following battles I expect out reputation in Rome to rise.
Also I love that mental image of a stewing Gemino. I'm sure after we sent a cohort after him he had thought us pecked. Typical arrogant Roman, as inexperienced as our age would suggest. Write a letter and taunt him, then run circles around him.
Hah, we showed him.
So, the vote
Gemino's forces are experienced, but I don't think they are far ahead of us in that regard. After all, our men were marching through the countryside, too, and were constantly harassed by him and bandits. Obviously we can't allow them to link up. We don't know what stats Tercerian has, but given the situation I'm sure we can expect him to be less skilled than Gemino.
I'm not sure. The man killed every Roman citizen in the valley. Even if we would do this, could we even him any protection? Not to mention, I heavily doubt he would go for an offer like that. Also, would it be in character for Atellus as an idealist populares to even consider such an offer?
I mean, we could lie to him, but that might just mean that he double crosses us and links up with Gemino. A victorious Gemino Tercerian might be able to deal with, but if Rome triumphs his days are numbered.
Can we even insure that we would have numerical superiority here? The difference between Gemino and Tercerian could be so stark that the rebels just flock to Gemino's banner, meaning that we might have handed Gemino a victory should we go with this option. And even if that is not the case, we are under time pressure since Sertorius wishes to march on Nola. If the numbers of the rebels are too great, we might need to prepare for a longer siege, if they aren't carrying out a sortie.
Tempting, but has the same problems as the first siege option, but this time we wouldn't have to surround a city. However, we don't now the lay of the land. If there is a possible pass out of the valley we don't know about, this might have been for naught. Not to mention that again we sadly don't know how much time we actually have before we are forced to leave either way.
I expect Tercerian to be the less competent leader of men, but that doesn't mean that this option is a sound one. For starters, he has a city and the numerical advantage. He might decide to face us in the open, or he could entrench himself. Either way, it's dangerous. Gemino's objective is to kill us, he might pounce on the possibility to be the hammer to Tercerian's anvil. Also, the question is if we can even beat him here to the valley. Sertorius noted that we travel fast, but that was with the First Cohort. I'm not confident in this one, even if success might just heave fame on us. Then there is exhaustion which plays a factor.
Frankly I would be for this if we had a more experienced army and Atellus was more skilled in logistics and command. That's something I'd do when we reach Caesar in Gaul level.
I would either favour this here, especially if we can get Samnite scouts or a good Write-in. We have the numerical advantage and this time it likely won't be an ambush. Also Tercerian's hold on Aesarnia was noted as so weak he couldn't sally out of the valley.
And of course our men wouldn't be as exhausted as if they would be if we stole the march on Gemino and reached the valley first.
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I'm honestly not sure how much time would pass during our mini-campaign. I can't imagine that it could grow that bad. I'd support the Ninth, I think. I'm against the siege options, so they likely wouldn't be needed. I'm also against auxiliaries. Sure, we brought the Pentri over, but who is to say that we don't accidentally employ Gemino's men.
Five hundred Romans will likely dissuade anyone from rising up.
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Levy Bovianum and raise the Pentri could potentially be going back on our words.
The auxiliaries had only a few weeks of training, so while I expect them to stay loyal, I also expect them to flee rather quickly come battle.
Leaves Sertorius and the noble levies of which I'm in favour. Asking Sertorius might just be the hint he needs to get that we need a bit of time and it would also likely provide us with the most experienced men next to the noble levies.
Noble levies for two reasons. First, Samnite scouts. We made an effort to work with the traditional Samnite elite, I think we can count on them. Second, they likely hate Gemino with intensity. The rabble of Bovianum, sure they were starving. But so were the nobles and Gemino was also harassing and pillaging their lands and their estates.
It might be a risk, after all we can't be sure how many we can raise (although I expect our new Orator trait to help here), but whatever we raise I expect to be of quality and be damn loyal.
My thoughts on the matter.
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I have to agree with @Thyreus, our real enemy is Gemino, we really need to decisively beat him before we leave the area and we've just been ordered to prepare to leave the area to rejoin our army, therefore any option that results in Gemino running away again while still having a serious number of men or us having to commit to a siege is not acceptable. We need to force Gemino into a field battle and hope that our massive numerical advantage and local support can beat his greater skill and knowledge of the Terrain. Since this battle is rather do or die and we have significant local support I'd leave the absolute minimum of troops behind us, at most 1 cohort or maybe even only the auxiliaries. If we win the battle then we'll be back very quickly almost certainly before major issues crop up and if we loose we're kind of screwed anyway. In terms of reinforcements we're limited due to our promises and our need for quality troops therefore I'd ask our commander for more men and see if the local nobles won't help us out.
xa na xa
A.E.I.O.U. - Antarticae est imperare orbi universo
- Location
- σ Octantis
I don't see how it's more breaking our promise than the Noble Levy, or our Aquilonia Auxiliary.
Our promise was to not conscript people directly into Roman forces. Militias raised by locals are another matter.
I think asking Sertorius is a bad choice. All other choices increase the total of men available to Rome, in one way or another, and it's merely a question of deciding which have greater cons and pros. Taking a cohort from Sertorius merely redistributes the numbers, without adding to the total.
From the overall strategic perspective, it does not create more available resources, alone among all other possible choices.
Also from the overall strategic perspective, weakening Sertorius' half-legion as it could be soon confronting the main rebel force around Nola sounds rather unwise.
There are also personal considerations, asking again for help after we already had to for protecting our supply lines wouldn't reflect well upon our capacity to handle an autonomous command.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Oh he will probably send men. That is not the question. But I don't think the hit we would take to our reputation would be worth it.
- Location
- USA
Right now I think this is the best option for us. One of my reasons for this comes from this:
If we look at things mechanically, simply through the lenses of Gemino's mechanical advantages, it would seem almost suicidal to attack him in a field battle as his bonuses outrank ours.
With a likely whopping bonus of at least +10, our comparative bonus of +5 due to having Accomplished Military (+2), Average Command (+0), Gift of Minerva (+1), and Gallic Cavalry (+2), does not seem to compare, though that depends on if the Gallic Cavalry having improved to Skilled Gallic Cavalry will possibly change things, like say at +5 to a +7. If we simply compared out stats to each other, then it would seem almost unquestionable that we would likely lose this battle.
However, as stated in the Battle Mechanics page, there are things we can do to mitigate his mechanical advantages through the use of clever tactics and circumstance. First off, if we choose to confront Gemino and his force with all of our forces save a cohort and some auxiliaries behind the defend Bovianum and Aquilonia, we should still well outnumber him around 1900 men to 1000 men, which should hopefully give us an advantage in terms of giving Gemino a -6 outnumbered malus which evens the odds for us if we face each other personally. Secondly, if we are to assume that the outnumbered malus applies equally against the whole of Gemino's forces, giving all of his subordinates -6 to their roles as well, I think we have an equal shot of having our own subordinate commanders hold off the Rebels long enough for us to deliver a decapitating strike. The Second Cohort under Pompolussa should have a mechanical bonus of around +4 due to being an average cohort with his accomplished military and command. Tercerus if we look at how well he did mechanically during the Battle of Aeclanum should have a whopping +8 bonus due to his renowned command and renowned military skills, though it will likely be only a +7 if we stick him in a half-green legion. So even though things look daunting at first, I believe we have the tools and subordinates to win a decisive victory here.
Fighting a decisive battle against Gemino here is something that plays to our strengths rather than his. We are not the ones getting ambushed this time. To accomplish his objective he will need to literally go through us. Through blocking the way to his goal his only option will be to stand and fight, as to flee back to where he came from will mean objective defeat for him as he has already alienated his power base in the Pentrii heartlands, and his new supporters likely won't appreciate his cowardice. With a stand up fight being his only option our tactics here should be simple. We outnumber him, and while his troops may fight ferociously that is hard to do when you are fighting someone at a 2 to 1 disadvantage. With our forces at hand I believe that all we really need to do here is tie Gemino down with our Legionary Cohorts, while using our Gallic Cavalry, which we should command personally, as a mobile reserve, intervening here and there in certain engagements to turn the tide of one. I don't remember hearing about Gemino having cavalry of his own, and if that is the case we should have the advantage of tactical mobility here, especially if we can use our strategic mobility to choose a battlefield that suits us, IE the open field where our cavalry and overwhelming numbers can be used to our advantage. With little choice but to go through our heavy infantry, and no answer to our cavalry, we can disrupt the battlefield as we please, going to and forth adding flanking and rear charge maluses across the line, with a potential chance to confront Gemino ourselves if we can get stuck in with his unit and possibly defeat him in a decisive duel.
Even discounting the battle itself there are some other things that might merit weight here. Firstly it seems that while his numbers may have improved through recruiting some of the outlying villages and towns, it doesn't help in this kind of scenario as much as he thinks it does. As he is still outnumbered against us, while the people who he has recruited likely aren't veteran troops. From their description it seems like they only joined him because they and their people were already suffering under Tercerian, which to me doesn't describe skilled rebels, but instead are likely farmers and other common people who are probably starving and malnourished taking up arms here, which will likely give another malus to his forces outside of his core rebels. Furthermore, considering what we know of Tercerian, it's not likely he will sally out to meet us at this juncture, especially as we are dealing with Gemino for him, but even if he does sally out I think if we fight a decisive battle he will not have the time to do so in any case.
As was mentioned in the battle mechanics page, all of the our pre-battle choices should allow us to beat Gemino if we play to our strengths. Fighting a decisive battle here does so when we continue to outnumber him. While luck will likely play a part in all of this, I think that if we take into account all of the strategic context at the moment, we have the initiative here and enough tools at our disposal to defeat him in the field.
This does not seem to be a smart move. Not only are we not guaranteed to get there quickly due to the poor state of the roads, even if we go get to Aesernia first there is no guarantee we can win the battle there due to the numbers we are up against. If we fail to get there quick enough we will be at risk of being forced to confront a force that heavily outnumbers us and is under a competent commander.
Considering the fact that our Legion architects are essentially telling us that they don't think they are up to the task for this, I would trust their judgement here. The fact that we don't have a good enough lay of the land complicates things for us. This will be a race against time, and with our poor engineering skills,and us having no true knowledge of Pompolussa's engineering skill, I don't think we will be able to do this in the time required, especially considering the fact that the confrontation at Nola is still hanging over our heads, which adds a further timetable for us to finish things up,
Similar to the blocking option I do not think that we will have time to siege and wait out the rebels. Sertorius is on a timetable here, and while a siege may play to our strengths, if Gemino is able to defeat Tercerian and win over enough troops to his side then this siege may be voided outright as he could simply sally out with his thousands of men and fight us on the field.
From what we know of Tercerian, his action of killing all the Romans in the valley, I don't think we can trust him here, nor would he trust us. All this would do for him is probably forewarn him. Besides I don't like the idea of somewhat like him escaping retribution for his crimes.
Personally speaking, since we already had the sixth train an auxiliary force for Aquilonia I think we can afford to take them with us.
Nope. Aside from the fact that the Gauls are our only real mobile cavalry force, if we left them behind not under our command I do not doubt they will buck our reins and simply go pillaging for wont of nothing to do. The reason they were so unhappy with us in the first place was because we kept them idle for so long. Let's not repeat that again here, especially when they will likely play a key role in the battle to come.
Also nope. We need our best trained, granted only at average, and also one of our best commanders with us for this fight against Gemino.
I think we can afford to leave the Ninth behind. With the fort we have constructed they should be able to hold out against any force that comes against them, and this will likely assuage the fears of anyone inside Bovianum as they are serving as a measure of protection.
Considering they only have a few weeks of training I think taking them with us to the battle might not be too advantageous to us, possibly even be a detriment, which makes me believe that leaving them behind is the right course of action. I am sure that if for some reason Gemino doubles back they will fight much harder against them here, at their homes, guarding the food and supplies that will be keeping their people fed than in the field alongside us.
See above. Plus we are not entirely sure of their loyalties just yet.
While this is not explicitly a levy, I am not entirely sure that asking the Tribal Assembly to give us more men, when we explicitly told them in a stirring speech that we wouldn't take any more men, would go very well for us. If we take the decisive battle option against Gemino and his 1000 men, I'm not entirely sure we would need these men in the first place.
If we take into account the 8000 men that Sertorius believes we will have at Nola after this, taking out the 2400 under our command makes it so that Sertorius likely has around 5600 men with him, including the Hirpini auxiliaries. If we ask Sertorius for aid in this task and he dispatches a cohort to assist us, that will likely leave him with around 5000 men, which in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter too much unless the Hirpini auxiliaries under him try to betray him. If this works this will be a great boon for us in this upcoming battle. However we might take a hit to our reputation here if we do this. Then again, it may be better to ask now than come back in failure.
We cannot do this after promising that we wouldn't do this.
This might be a viable option as that will give us battle ready troops in the short term. My only concern is that this may be seen as us going back on our word, which I would rather we not do so immediately after having given it.
All in all, I am in favor of meeting Gemino in the field, where our numerical advantage and our tactical mobility will allow us to win the day.
Even the idea of Sertorius reinforcing us is useful, really, especially combined with any effort to expand the militia. It puts Gemino under more pressure to seek a decision with us, and provides a check to any potential remaining malcontents who might rise in our rear.
What hit? There is a possible legion's worth of rebels to our west. We have under half that. I'm confident we can deal with Gemino with what we have, but given that a defeat here could derail the whole campaign, it would be irresponsible not to plan for the worst case scenario. Sertorius and everyone else who matters know that.
We can't make decisions based on what our opponents might say about us, because Romans will sling mud over anything. So long as you are successful and make at least a cursory effort to frame your actions as properly Roman, you're fine. (And if the success is big enough, the latter can slide.)
What hit? There is a possible legion's worth of rebels to our west. We have under half that. I'm confident we can deal with Gemino with what we have, but given that a defeat here could derail the whole campaign, it would be irresponsible not to plan for the worst case scenario. Sertorius and everyone else who matters know that.
We can't make decisions based on what our opponents might say about us, because Romans will sling mud over anything. So long as you are successful and make at least a cursory effort to frame your actions as properly Roman, you're fine. (And if the success is big enough, the latter can slide.)
- Location
- Hawaii
Ok, so this update was amazing, and even just the description of the speech to the Pentrii was amazing to read. Things were going well, the route to Beneventum remained secure, the liberated towns were patrolled and we strengthened ties and improved our command with the Gauls. Gemino's silence was the only problem. But that in itself was the problem. Gemino spent that time rallying more men to his banner, and is moving to take over Tercerian's thousands of rebels in the Valley of the Vulturnus. This news arrived with Sertorius' dispatch that he has flipped the Hirpini for promises of land and wealth. Between Legio VI Gradivius and the Hirpinii auxiliaries, Sertorius would outnumber the 6,000 revolting Samnites in Nola.
So, the mood of the city seems much less hostile after Atellus' epic speech at Aquilonia, so it's unlikely that we'll see "Romani ite domum" graphited on the walls. Of the various war options, I am most in favor of going directly for Gemino, as he is the premiere threat to Bovianum, the security of which was our mission. From the text of the option, it seems we are likely to catch up to Gemino before he reaches Aesernia. If at all possible, I would prefer to interdict him before he enters the Valley of the Vulturnus, because it seems that the pass is a known choke point that even the Samnites are restricted by. If, and that is a very conditional if, we can beat Gemino to the pass, we could prevent him from taking over Tercerian's men. Optimally, we can force Gemino into direct conflict and make use of our numbers and cavalry advantages. From the sounds of it, Gemino's men are mostly green recruits from the western towns, bandits from his raiding around Bovianum, with a small core of veterans from the war against Sulla. From the text of the update, even the Samnites fear the Gauls, while they hate Romans. We can make use of their presence, reputation, and savagery to spook the Samnites.
Another benefit from reaching the pass to the Vulturnus first is that Tercerian is currently unable to operate outside of the valley, and it is unlikely he could bring his full force, demoralized as it is, against us at the entrance to the valley. If he makes the attempt, there will be desertions and possibly mutinies. If Tercerian declines to move from Aesernia, we could attempt a defeat in detail. If we are able to catch and kill Gemino, that might demoralize the rebels of the valley to desert in droves. After all, if even the legendary insurgent fell before us, what chance does the tyrant Tercerian?
As for who to take, definitely 2nd cohort and Gauls, and I'm tempted to bring the Ninth. While they might have the least combat experience, the next action is the siege of Nola, and we should probably blood them now, rather than have them break at a crucial moment during the siege. Also, the Ninth was led by a particularly capable centurion in spite of his inexperience, who was able to withdraw from defeat in good order rather than rout. Therefore, the Sixth and the Auxiliaries should remain. As for reinforcements, asking the nobles will helps, and even if they contribute little, the men should be somewhat reliable. militia, conscripts and the auxiliaries as they stand are unreliable at best and liabilities at worst. We can also ask Sertorius. It might sting our pride and diminish his view of us a bit, but we can either ask for time or ask for a cohort. He might send the First just to expedite it, and Mercator can kill as many Samnites as he pleases. If we can ask for additional time, perhaps we could pull off one of the more siege-y options while Sertorius invests Nola with his current force.
It depends on how Sertorius intends to handle the siege of Nola. If he wants to go for high-intensity, frequent raids against the walls, he needs more troops for a reserve he can rotate the raiders through. If he's planning a slow, grinding siege, starting with circumvallation, he might not need our half of the legion immediately. The extra numbers would help deter a serious sally attempt, but countering raiding against work crews should be doable. If he plans to assault Nola, he would start building siege towers and a wooden frame for a ramp. Question for @Telamon, does the legion have scorpions? If so, Sertorius might want to build towers just to be able to leverage them against the defenders.
So, the mood of the city seems much less hostile after Atellus' epic speech at Aquilonia, so it's unlikely that we'll see "Romani ite domum" graphited on the walls. Of the various war options, I am most in favor of going directly for Gemino, as he is the premiere threat to Bovianum, the security of which was our mission. From the text of the option, it seems we are likely to catch up to Gemino before he reaches Aesernia. If at all possible, I would prefer to interdict him before he enters the Valley of the Vulturnus, because it seems that the pass is a known choke point that even the Samnites are restricted by. If, and that is a very conditional if, we can beat Gemino to the pass, we could prevent him from taking over Tercerian's men. Optimally, we can force Gemino into direct conflict and make use of our numbers and cavalry advantages. From the sounds of it, Gemino's men are mostly green recruits from the western towns, bandits from his raiding around Bovianum, with a small core of veterans from the war against Sulla. From the text of the update, even the Samnites fear the Gauls, while they hate Romans. We can make use of their presence, reputation, and savagery to spook the Samnites.
Another benefit from reaching the pass to the Vulturnus first is that Tercerian is currently unable to operate outside of the valley, and it is unlikely he could bring his full force, demoralized as it is, against us at the entrance to the valley. If he makes the attempt, there will be desertions and possibly mutinies. If Tercerian declines to move from Aesernia, we could attempt a defeat in detail. If we are able to catch and kill Gemino, that might demoralize the rebels of the valley to desert in droves. After all, if even the legendary insurgent fell before us, what chance does the tyrant Tercerian?
As for who to take, definitely 2nd cohort and Gauls, and I'm tempted to bring the Ninth. While they might have the least combat experience, the next action is the siege of Nola, and we should probably blood them now, rather than have them break at a crucial moment during the siege. Also, the Ninth was led by a particularly capable centurion in spite of his inexperience, who was able to withdraw from defeat in good order rather than rout. Therefore, the Sixth and the Auxiliaries should remain. As for reinforcements, asking the nobles will helps, and even if they contribute little, the men should be somewhat reliable. militia, conscripts and the auxiliaries as they stand are unreliable at best and liabilities at worst. We can also ask Sertorius. It might sting our pride and diminish his view of us a bit, but we can either ask for time or ask for a cohort. He might send the First just to expedite it, and Mercator can kill as many Samnites as he pleases. If we can ask for additional time, perhaps we could pull off one of the more siege-y options while Sertorius invests Nola with his current force.
It depends on how Sertorius intends to handle the siege of Nola. If he wants to go for high-intensity, frequent raids against the walls, he needs more troops for a reserve he can rotate the raiders through. If he's planning a slow, grinding siege, starting with circumvallation, he might not need our half of the legion immediately. The extra numbers would help deter a serious sally attempt, but countering raiding against work crews should be doable. If he plans to assault Nola, he would start building siege towers and a wooden frame for a ramp. Question for @Telamon, does the legion have scorpions? If so, Sertorius might want to build towers just to be able to leverage them against the defenders.
- Location
- Central Europe
Here is my prefered plan so far:
[] Plan The Hunt is on
-[] The Enemy in the West
-[] The Auxiliaries
-[] The Ninth
-[] Write to Sertorius
-[] Noble Levy
--[] Write-In: Ask Himatus find us a number of loyal volunteers to serve as scouts.
The Enemy in the West has been argued as being the best standard option by myself and others, so I will not discuss this choice further.
When it comes to Who Remains I'm still waiting for an answer from @Telamon, but it is my belief that the 3rd Cohort will remain behind, except if we pick No One. Thus I would be content to additionally only leave behind the The Auxiliaries. IF the 3rd is not automatically left behind I would add another cohort (probably the 3rd or 9th). Edit: Added The Ninth
As for Reinforcements, I say let us go with the most professional sources. Sertorius might not be happy about sending troops. But, I guarantee you he'd rather be forced to send a cohort than be forced to content with 4000 Gemino-led Samnites in his rear.
Also @Telamon: Are all these Reinforcements options roughly equal in the time they take to muster/arrive? Or, should we expect maluses for picking more time intensive ones?
Should that be the case it might be prudent to task the Sertorius's reinforcements with protecting Bovanium and move out as soon as the Noble Levy has mustered.
I'm still partial to a write-in when it comes to dealing with Gemino. I could see us changing the structure of this vote entirely and divide our forces in two (Offensive & 'Defensive'):
[] Write-In: The Might of Rome
The main force lead by ourselves, consisting of the 3rd, 6th and 9th Cohorts plus the Gallic auxiliaries and the Noble levy sets of as soon as possible to cut off Gemino from the Valley of the Vulturnus. The Gaul are used to scout and if possible hinder Gemino's movements. Meanwhile a smaller force consisting of Pompolussa's 2nd and the Samnite Auxillaries will remain behind at Bovanium. Pompolussa should move out to attack Geminos powerbase in the western towns, once the forces send by Sertorius arrive. How many cohorts he takes with him on this task should depend on his assessment of the direct threat to the region around Bovanium. Regarding the case that no assistance from Sertorius arrives, we advise him to risk it and leave only the Auxilaries behind. Once the main force has positioned itself between Gemino and the entrance to the Valley, their next goal is to force the Rebels into battle. During this second phase the main force should be on guard for the two most likely eventualities: Gemino trying to go around them and him going after Pompolussa's force.
[] Plan Powerbases can be attacked
-[] Write-In: The Might of Rome
--[] 3rd, 6th & 9th + Gauls & Noble Levy lead by Us; move out as fast as possible to head off Gemino
--[] 2nd & Sertorius's Reinforcements lead by Pompolussa; move out later to attack the western towns and force Gemino to fight
-[] The Auxiliaries
-[] Write to Sertorius
-[] Noble Levy
--[] Write-In: Ask Himatus find us a number of loyal volunteers to serve as scouts.
This could also be changed to take the 2nd with us and instead leave a different cohort behind. Although, then we should probably leave Tercerus behind to take command of this 'task force'. Thoughts?
[] Plan The Hunt is on
-[] The Enemy in the West
-[] The Auxiliaries
-[] The Ninth
-[] Write to Sertorius
-[] Noble Levy
--[] Write-In: Ask Himatus find us a number of loyal volunteers to serve as scouts.
The Enemy in the West has been argued as being the best standard option by myself and others, so I will not discuss this choice further.
When it comes to Who Remains I'm still waiting for an answer from @Telamon, but it is my belief that the 3rd Cohort will remain behind, except if we pick No One. Thus I would be content to additionally only leave behind the The Auxiliaries. IF the 3rd is not automatically left behind I would add another cohort (probably the 3rd or 9th). Edit: Added The Ninth
As for Reinforcements, I say let us go with the most professional sources. Sertorius might not be happy about sending troops. But, I guarantee you he'd rather be forced to send a cohort than be forced to content with 4000 Gemino-led Samnites in his rear.
Also @Telamon: Are all these Reinforcements options roughly equal in the time they take to muster/arrive? Or, should we expect maluses for picking more time intensive ones?
Should that be the case it might be prudent to task the Sertorius's reinforcements with protecting Bovanium and move out as soon as the Noble Levy has mustered.
I'm still partial to a write-in when it comes to dealing with Gemino. I could see us changing the structure of this vote entirely and divide our forces in two (Offensive & 'Defensive'):
[] Write-In: The Might of Rome
The main force lead by ourselves, consisting of the 3rd, 6th and 9th Cohorts plus the Gallic auxiliaries and the Noble levy sets of as soon as possible to cut off Gemino from the Valley of the Vulturnus. The Gaul are used to scout and if possible hinder Gemino's movements. Meanwhile a smaller force consisting of Pompolussa's 2nd and the Samnite Auxillaries will remain behind at Bovanium. Pompolussa should move out to attack Geminos powerbase in the western towns, once the forces send by Sertorius arrive. How many cohorts he takes with him on this task should depend on his assessment of the direct threat to the region around Bovanium. Regarding the case that no assistance from Sertorius arrives, we advise him to risk it and leave only the Auxilaries behind. Once the main force has positioned itself between Gemino and the entrance to the Valley, their next goal is to force the Rebels into battle. During this second phase the main force should be on guard for the two most likely eventualities: Gemino trying to go around them and him going after Pompolussa's force.
[] Plan Powerbases can be attacked
-[] Write-In: The Might of Rome
--[] 3rd, 6th & 9th + Gauls & Noble Levy lead by Us; move out as fast as possible to head off Gemino
--[] 2nd & Sertorius's Reinforcements lead by Pompolussa; move out later to attack the western towns and force Gemino to fight
-[] The Auxiliaries
-[] Write to Sertorius
-[] Noble Levy
--[] Write-In: Ask Himatus find us a number of loyal volunteers to serve as scouts.
This could also be changed to take the 2nd with us and instead leave a different cohort behind. Although, then we should probably leave Tercerus behind to take command of this 'task force'. Thoughts?
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- Location
- Classified
This update is a real rollercoaster. We simply never had the free time to send forces west. Unfortunate, but we're just going to have to deal with it. Attacking Gemino seems like the best option. We definitely have to call up Sertorius, which sucks, but I'd rather add a smudge to our first independent command than lose or die. Does Noble Levy break our agreement?
- Location
- France
Great update Telamon! Appropriately epic, this makes me want to see a Heroic spirit!Atellus at some point...
Hummm I wonder if we can just ask for guide from the locals Samnites? That would help giving us the lay of the Land.
I also think we should keep the Legion Architect with us, since we may or may not have to construct fortification on the go to tilt the odds in our favor.
Hummm I wonder if we can just ask for guide from the locals Samnites? That would help giving us the lay of the Land.
I also think we should keep the Legion Architect with us, since we may or may not have to construct fortification on the go to tilt the odds in our favor.
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- Location
- USA
At work on the phone, but this was a great update. Getting the itch to write something on this when I get home.
Only comments I have at the moment:
Attempting to ask the nobles for their levies seems like a good move. It gives them their own chance for glory, they like us after that awesome crit on the speech, and it gives them more buy-in in a Roman world.
Bringing the Gauls: these guys are the Classical World's equivalents to Orks. There's a massive fight with some gits o'er dere. And their boss follows us. No sense in not bringing them.
Only comments I have at the moment:
Attempting to ask the nobles for their levies seems like a good move. It gives them their own chance for glory, they like us after that awesome crit on the speech, and it gives them more buy-in in a Roman world.
Bringing the Gauls: these guys are the Classical World's equivalents to Orks. There's a massive fight with some gits o'er dere. And their boss follows us. No sense in not bringing them.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Mm. Gotta go before I can write a proper reaction post or talk about tactical plans, sorry, something came up.
@Telamon , I would just like to note that when an update comes in at 3 a.m. Eastern Standard Time on a weeknight, you're going to have some trouble getting discussion out of it within the next twelve hours. Many of the American posters will be asleep or at work for most of the discussion window, so you're limited to the Asian posters (who see it at the beginning of their evening) and the European posters (whose evening overlaps with the tail end of the discussion).
This might be a time when you'll actually get better results by extending the window of opportunity for discussion and voting.
The cool part is, that was Marcus Aurelius quoting Quintus Atellus. In other words, Marcus Aurelius, the philosopher-emperor, last of the Five Good Emperors, was standing there thinking: "You know, what's the most convincing thing I can think of to say to these bozos?" And his answer wasn't "make up some brilliant aphorism like my many, many others." It was "oh yeah, that thing Quintus Atellus said. That's the best for this situation."
Squee.
"OH, NOW YOU WONDER ABOUT THAT? YOU WONDER WHY? WELL, IT'S BECAUSE FUCK YOU. BECAUSE FUCK YOU, THAT'S WHY!"
@Telamon , I would just like to note that when an update comes in at 3 a.m. Eastern Standard Time on a weeknight, you're going to have some trouble getting discussion out of it within the next twelve hours. Many of the American posters will be asleep or at work for most of the discussion window, so you're limited to the Asian posters (who see it at the beginning of their evening) and the European posters (whose evening overlaps with the tail end of the discussion).
This might be a time when you'll actually get better results by extending the window of opportunity for discussion and voting.
Okay, but why not try to defeat Gemino's smaller force (which is closer to us) instead of Tercerian's smaller force (which is both farther away and not as small)? I mean, it would seem logical.
(4) especially weighs on me. I mean, with the Aeclanum defense where we literally had to set them on fire to get them to stop trying to kill us counting as 'low morale' by Samnite standards, I'm not sure I want to know what they look like on defense when their morale is high.
Having a journal only helps if we're famous enough that the journal itself is deemed worthy of preservation after we die. Give it some time and we may see some of these bits and pieces retconned.What do you mean, now lost? What's the point of writing a journal then?
That's not the cool part.
The cool part is, that was Marcus Aurelius quoting Quintus Atellus. In other words, Marcus Aurelius, the philosopher-emperor, last of the Five Good Emperors, was standing there thinking: "You know, what's the most convincing thing I can think of to say to these bozos?" And his answer wasn't "make up some brilliant aphorism like my many, many others." It was "oh yeah, that thing Quintus Atellus said. That's the best for this situation."
Squee.
The Ghost of Pyrrhus of Epirus:
"OH, NOW YOU WONDER ABOUT THAT? YOU WONDER WHY? WELL, IT'S BECAUSE FUCK YOU. BECAUSE FUCK YOU, THAT'S WHY!"
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@Simon_Jester Time should not really matter too much. Say op lives on the west coast then it is midnight when he posts but it is three for you. Also op has a life outside of these why should it matter when he posts at all , but that he keeps posting when he can.
Thinking about it, as a Roman nobleman, we have a moral obligation to make as big a deal as possible out of that speech. I'm thinking funding a shrine or temple of Concordia in Bovianum when this is over, and making a point out of making an annual sacrifice to the goddess on the anniversary would be a good start.
(I'm also really tempted to pay for a bronze plaque or inscription in that temple in Aequum Tuticum reading something like "spared from fire and pillage by the grace of Quintus Cingulatus Atellus.")
(I'm also really tempted to pay for a bronze plaque or inscription in that temple in Aequum Tuticum reading something like "spared from fire and pillage by the grace of Quintus Cingulatus Atellus.")
- Location
- ferreries
Honestly, I really hope that part is retconned in the future. Not because i don't like Marcus Aurelius, he was an awesome emperor, but avoiding the tranformation from republic to empire is sometthing i would very like to acomplish.
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xa na xa
A.E.I.O.U. - Antarticae est imperare orbi universo
- Location
- σ Octantis
I would like a 24 hrs moratorium period.
That way, all time zones are fairly and equally treated.
It allows @Telamon to publish at whatever time suits him best.
As of now, I find that 12 hrs is just enough time for people to lay out some plans, and then voting is open and some get picked (often w/ bandwagoning) Another 12 hrs allows time to go through, criticise and amend proposals in discussions with a chance for everybody to participate before voting.
That way, all time zones are fairly and equally treated.
It allows @Telamon to publish at whatever time suits him best.
As of now, I find that 12 hrs is just enough time for people to lay out some plans, and then voting is open and some get picked (often w/ bandwagoning) Another 12 hrs allows time to go through, criticise and amend proposals in discussions with a chance for everybody to participate before voting.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This isn't about when he posts, its about the voting moratorium.
- Location
- France
Eh, Rome is already at the limit of what it can endure as republic, it is simply too big and too strong to keep going like that right now, Rome is very much in a self destructive cycle of civil war after civil war, and anyways keeping it a republic doesn't really change much. As it is right now Rome has basically been ruled by an Emperor in all but Name several time.
We will be dead by that time so it's not really our business in any case.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Still can't do more Big Posts, but wanted to react to the commentary.
The point isn't "Hey, @Telamon, post at a time more convenient to me." The point is that not all twelve-hour windows of opportunity are created equal for the purpose of discussion. SV is an English-speaking forum, so its readers are concentrated in certain specific time zones, chief among them UTC+0 (Britain), UTC-5 to UTC-8 (US and Canada), and UTC+8 to UTC+11 (Australia). There are, naturally, a considerable scattering of posters from outside these zones, particularly in Europe (UTC to UTC-2 or so).
The fact that people sleep during the late hours of the night and usually work during the early hours of the day in their respective time zones imposes practical constraints on many of us, which in turn impose practical issues on a quest, which in turn argue in favor of slightly longer discussion windows for things like major story/vote posts that are made in the late morning hours UTC.
So yes, time matters, though not the way you seem to think that I think it does.
This. Given how strongly and commendably @Telamon is working to promote discussion and careful thought, a longer moratorium wouldn't go at all amiss unless it would present Telamon with other problems.
You're missing my point.
The point isn't "Hey, @Telamon, post at a time more convenient to me." The point is that not all twelve-hour windows of opportunity are created equal for the purpose of discussion. SV is an English-speaking forum, so its readers are concentrated in certain specific time zones, chief among them UTC+0 (Britain), UTC-5 to UTC-8 (US and Canada), and UTC+8 to UTC+11 (Australia). There are, naturally, a considerable scattering of posters from outside these zones, particularly in Europe (UTC to UTC-2 or so).
The fact that people sleep during the late hours of the night and usually work during the early hours of the day in their respective time zones imposes practical constraints on many of us, which in turn impose practical issues on a quest, which in turn argue in favor of slightly longer discussion windows for things like major story/vote posts that are made in the late morning hours UTC.
So yes, time matters, though not the way you seem to think that I think it does.
Yes.
I'd like that. Though I doubt it'd work out too well during Visellia Tertia's lifetime, if only because our plaques and whatnot would get serially defaced.
The big problem with the Roman Republic was that so many of its core institutions basically worked on the honor system, and its rules were riddled with loopholes because when you run on the honor system, you don't need airtight laws.
I beg to differ. Contemplating the historical implications of our actions is one of the core points of a quest like this, and it is very much part of our business to think about how Quintus Atellus's actions will impact history.