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Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome

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[X] Plan Cunctator
-[X] Castrum Aestiva
-[X] Garrison
-[X] Eliminate the Bandits
--[X] Use the Gauls
--[X] Join the hunt
-[X] Establish Supply Lines
--[X] Pompolussa
-[X] Liberate the Towns
-[X] Connect With Elders
-[X] Study Logistics
 
[X] Plan Cunctator
-[X] Castrum Aestiva
-[X] Garrison
-[X] Eliminate the Bandits
--[X] Use the Gauls
--[X] Join the hunt
-[X] Establish Supply Lines
--[X] Pompolussa
-[X] Liberate the Towns
-[X] Connect With Elders
-[X] Study Logistics
 
[X] Plan Cunctator
-[X] Castrum Aestiva
-[X] Garrison
-[X] Eliminate the Bandits
--[X] Use the Gauls
--[X] Join the hunt
-[X] Establish Supply Lines
--[X] Pompolussa
-[X] Liberate the Towns
-[X] Connect With Elders
-[X] Study Logistics
 
Thyreus said:
So Hannibal at Cannae was just short of a catastrophic negative modifier? Not gonna lie, I now want to know what military stats you'd give him and Scipio Africanus.

Oh, and since we got logistics this round: What skill did Caesar have in that field? I can't imagine he conquered Gaul without knowing whether his men needed food or not, but his character sheet doesn't say anything about it.;)
(Also Augustus isn't bookmarked)
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Hannibal had morale modifiers, and was using tactics which gave the Romans huge penalties. Also, he was Hannibal, so legendary mil/logistics/command all around served to carry the day, along with his unique modifier (The Punic Foe), which gave him +3 to offensive battles against Romans on Roman soil. Scipio's Gift of Mars, as well as his Epic military and cavalry-disrupting tactic, managed to overcome Hannibal on Carthaginian land, where his modifier was absent.

Now Alexander the Great, for example, had ridiculously high stats for Military (20), Command (19), Logistics (18), and Combat (20), but far lower stats in almost all non-military stats/skills, with a staggering 4 for Subterfuge. His unique modifier was (Ho Megas), which is a straight +3 to all even vaguely military actions. There were several situations where it was literally impossible for him not to crit.

And I copied Caesar/Augustus' sheets directly from yours and edited them in to match, without adding relevant skills. My mistake.
 
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[X] Plan Cunctator
-[X] Castrum Aestiva
-[X] Garrison
-[X] Eliminate the Bandits
-[X] Use the Gauls
-[X] Join the hunt
-[X] Establish Supply Lines
-[X] Pompolussa
-[X] Liberate the Towns
-[X] Connect With Elders
-[X] Study Logistics
 
racnor said:
Even without the +2 from home turf, we have a 30% chance of outrolling this guy with our best forces led by Pompolussa. Add that home turf bonus in and our chances drop to 22.75%.
The only way we win this is by rolling against him as little as possible and CERTAINLY never going on the offensive.
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That translates into Gemino getting turn after turn to raid our logistics and those of Bovianum for free.

For a heavy regular force trying to counteract a guerilla force, hunkering down and trying to stay on the defensive is NOT a winning strategy. You have to push out there and clash with their forces, deter them from raiding your supplies, sweep them out of areas too close to your base of operations, and in general keep them from being able to settle down and recruit/bulk up into a regular-ish force capable of threatening you in open battle.

Yes, you'll probably "lose" more clashes with the guerillas than you win, in that you will repeatedly fail to bring them to battle or fail to crush them. As we will lose more opposed rolls with Gemino than we win. The difference is, we have a massive numerical advantage and can bounce back from multiple failures as long as he doesn't manage to starve us out. He can't bounce back so easily, as long as we don't raise the countryside against us.

Gemino might well trap and inflict significant losses on one of our cohorts. That would be bad, and we should try to avoid it... but ultimately, we have more. And even a battle on unfavorable terms may turn out to be favorable to us.

xa na xa said:
Taking cases will allow us to gain intelligence and know all about what happens in Bovianum, and further entrench our reputation as a just ruler. An obligatory choice.

[] Prosecute Cases
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I wouldn't call it obligatory. Among other things, we might be better off taking the field against Gemino, or other things.
​
Total wildcard. I'm intrigued by the Greek rites. I'm open to this option.
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Ditto.

Dieb said:
Between this and not being able to even read the whole letter from Proserpina last turn without subterfuge 8, I think getting our subterfuge up will have to be a priority when the campaign is done. There doesn't seem to be a way to train subterfuge during the campaign unfortunately.
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Hmyeah.

We're lucky Sertorius bailed us out of a bad roll here. We should put someone better in charge of this next time. Tercerus would be my choice, he has good stats and this is far too important to fail again.
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I don't disagree, but at the same time... I'd like to point out that confronting Gemino without Tercerus at our side could go badly. Tercerus's age and wisdom, and the fact that he doesn't have any hesitation or authority-related qualms about warning Quintus Atellius he's making a mistake, are one of our best insurance policies against traps or ambushes set by Gemino. With mostly inexperienced centurions and Atellius having all of one mini-campaign under his belt, that's a problem. Especially since Gemino may well have cut his teeth on exactly this kind of "ambush the stupid Romans" crap against Sulla's troops.

If we send Tercerus to secure our supply line, we may NOT want to go out and hunt Gemino personally.

We need the food, and training a volunteer force is just asking for trouble. We'll need to Garrison Aquilonia, at least until we can round up the rebels and the bandits.
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I agree.

High priority. Gemino is a huge thorn in our side. I think we should probably use the Gauls for this, cavalry should help a good amount against an elusive foe. We should probably also personally join the hunt, although it has a large downside if he continues to elude us. Our +1 from Gift of Minerva should help, though.
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It would help us, on the other hand:

1) As noted, it backfires if he manages to elude us, and our +1 isn't a big enough bonus to come close to offsetting his Renowned Military and Command. We probably have other commanders who are just about as good; I can't imagine that the commander of the Gauls is a weakling.

2) The risk of the Gauls getting trapped and hammered, putting us in danger, is significant. Gemino is good and could well turn the tables on a cohort-sized force.

On the other hand, if we use the Gauls for this we may need personal supervision of them just to keep them from doing anything stupid.

Medium priority. It's such a Roman thing to do, though, so we should definitely consider it.
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Agreed, and it simplifies everything else we do later on, which is a big plus.

Highest priority. I'd send Tercerus, for a few reasons. First of all, we know he has high stats. Secondly, we can totally trust him. Finally, Pompolussa and the Second can be used elsewhere.
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I agree. The only problem with doing this is that NOT having Tercerus with us while going after Gemino could go badly for us.
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JamesShazbond said:
Our command skill is already being increased by Tereceus and fighting battles. If we were on the verge of a new rank, I'd consider it, but we have other things that need doing.
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You're not wrong. On the other hand, if we consistently cultivate our Command skill now we may well be able to level it up significantly faster in the long run, before it is put to a critical test in which that extra +1 bous would have turned out to make a huge difference.

Anduril said:
While at the moment it's probably not the best option, training a militia for Aquilonia eventually may be the right play (perhaps within a turn or two, even).

The reason (at least by their own admission) that Aquilonia is not sending supplies is because they fear reprisal from Gemino and other rebellious elements. The possibility of an Aquilonian militia turning against Rome is correlated to those exact same fears. As the cohorts work to stabilize and clean up the region, those risks will diminish, and even in the worst case scenario a militia will not be a viable threat to a cohort. Basically, in their minds eventually (hopefully) their fears of being attacked by Gemino will be outweighed by their fears of another Aeclanum.

As for overall strategy, the big play unfortunately didn't work, partially because of bad rolls and partially because the Samnites wound up damn good (that Gemino roll, sheesh!). Rome won a lot of wars not through big battles but through steady pressure and superior fundamentals. We should shore up our supply lines and food situation first. Also, sturdy defense here is a viable form of offense against the rebels; repelling raids and strengthening the cohorts' position will shut off a stream of good morale to Gemino, perhaps even turn the morale trend in the other direction. Drying up their successes (which includes vindictive satisfaction at evading hunting parties) will hurt them.

I think Pompolussa should secure the route to Boventum. It's the most reliable source of supplies, and if we do take a more defensive posture we probably won't need the Second's expertise as badly.
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This is a good point. We can afford a turn or two to build up our fundamentals. At the same time, though, we can't just hunker down and wait for Gemino to go away, because he won't. And sooner or later the Gauls will do something stupid, even if we avoid that this turn. That will give Gemino more strength and options, so we want to be trimming him down to size (I think a haircut right around the neckline would suit) as soon as practical.

Caesar said:
Essentially, we are playing the role of Pompey in Spain to Gemino's Sertorius - the materially and numerically superior force hamstrung by poor logistics facing a more mobile force specialising in ambush, with greater local knowledge and support, lead by a superior general. We could do considerably worse than follow Pompey's playbook. Get your logistics in order and play a cautious, methodical game - attrition favours you. Don't rush to a decision - avoiding defeat is more important, because the longer you do so, the more cracks appear in the other man's aura. The enemy commander can only be in one place at a time, so use your numbers to put him in a fork. Frustrate him, stress him out. Offer money and amnesty to traitors to ramp up the paranoia in the enemy camp.

To move from such generalities to the specificities of our situation, our first priority has to be food, both for the legion and Bovianum itself. Gemino knows this, and so his priority is to stop us feeding everyone. He can almost certainly counter any one attempt we make, so we need to make more than one. He doesn't have the strength to contest us everywhere. If he strikes at Aquilonia, it will be at a time and place we are expecting him, on ground we will have had a chance to prepare, and close enough to our base of operations that we can muster overwhelming force with relative ease. If he strikes at the hinterlands of Bovianum, he runs the risk of eroding his support base, and (in order to do so efficiently) he will have to disperse his men somewhat, allowing us to swallow up isolated groups. Finally, if he targets our supply convoys, he will be sacrificing the opportunity to interfere with our supplying Bovianum, which means that we can start sharing supplies next turn if absolutely necessary, and he will be facing our best troops under our best officer, quite possibly without the advantage of home ground.

Our second priority should be morale, both of our men and Bovianum. Securing supplies will help massively with this, but a nice string of victorious skirmishes and a sharp decrease in predation on the roads will help even more. Chasing Gemino is just playing his game and giving him oxygen, so we need a lesser calibre of opponent - the bandits. This has the additional benefit of cutting down on the number of men Gemino can potentially gather to his banner. As the Gauls are simultaneously our most restive and mobile, and least versatile troops, they are an excellent choice for this. Given their (lack of) discipline, however, I do not think that they should be trusted to operate independently of our oversight.

It is important to realise that Gemino cannot beat us conventionally without absurd luck or us conniving at our own destruction. He has to either a) break our will/ability to remain here (hence both the letter and striking at our supply lines), or b) cause a general uprising. So long as we keep Bovianum in hand and avoid any catastrophes, he is eventually going to lose, and he knows that. Sooner or later, he will have to take a chance. And that will be our opportunity, if we cannot engineer one before then.

[] Plan Cunctator
-[] Castrum Aestiva
-[] Garrison
-[] Eliminate the Bandits
--[] Use the Gauls
--[] Join the hunt
-[] Establish Supply Lines
--[] Pompolussa
-[] Liberate the Towns
-[] Connect With Elders
-[] Study Logistics
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I like your thinking. My main point of disagreement with you is about the wisdom of 'liberating' the towns before we've got the means to reliably protect them, but I can at least see how that fits into the overall strategy. I will note that you did NOT send Tercerus off to handle the supply lines, which I approve of; we need the canny old bastard at our side for this campaign.

Claytonimor said:
You guys are crazy. It can't be July in-story. Augustus hasn't added that month to the calendar yet!
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That is... an extremely good point, actually. :p

Bullmoose said:
[] Plan Cunctator

Caesar's reasoning is sound. Chasing Gemino around the region is playing to his strengths. We can afford to focus on our more immediate problems, and then force him to make a risky move in a turn or two.
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For that matter, after a turn or two of getting our troops into hand, building up experience and maybe winning more respect from the Gauls if the bandit hunt goes well... Maybe we can afford to go kick his ass. :D
 
Nurgle said:
I am hoppin that is a joke since winter in Italy is so mild.
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Little known historical fact: Augustus didn't want his month to be cold and dreary, so he extended summer to fit it, and stretched winter out over several months to accomodate instead. Without the holy month of the God Augustus there to ease the transition and slow the winter down, winters in antiquity hit all at once instead over several months, and were actually incredibly severe.

History be crazy, yo. :V
 
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Telamon said:
Little known historical fact: Augustus didn't want his month to be cold and dreary, so he extended summer to fit it, and stretched winter out over several months to accomodate instead. Without the holy month of the God Augustus there to ease the transition and slow the winter down, winters in antiquity hit all at once instead over several months, and were actually incredibly severe.
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PFFFFT!!!! I think you mean that, Augustus, twisted the fabric of reality to suit his own whims.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I like your thinking. My main point of disagreement with you is about the wisdom of 'liberating' the towns before we've got the means to reliably protect them, but I can at least see how that fits into the overall strategy. I will note that you did NOT send Tercerus off to handle the supply lines, which I approve of; we need the canny old bastard at our side for this campaign.
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That is one of the big risks with the plan, yes. The dispersed nature of the towns makes them the hardest target to defend. But looking at it from a strategic perspective, hitting the towns isn't the best move available to Gemino. If it works it kills Romans and embarrasses us, but it doesn't make much real progress towards making our position untenable unless he can also dislodge us from Aquilonia, and I don't think he has the strength to do both. His best move and thus the one he is most likely to make, I think, is hitting our supply convoys. Success there kills Romans, embarrasses us, and forces us to choose between starving our troops or taking actions likely to make the locals angry.

(That's my logic at least, and I would appreciate it if people could point out any potential holes in it).

In any case, ideally next turn will see the the potential threats to the towns reduced and the Gauls sufficiently exercised to trust with guarding them.

For that matter, after a turn or two of getting our troops into hand, building up experience and maybe winning more respect from the Gauls if the bandit hunt goes well... Maybe we can afford to go kick his ass. :D
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That's the ideal scenario, and the one we should be aiming for.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
This is a good point. We can afford a turn or two to build up our fundamentals. At the same time, though, we can't just hunker down and wait for Gemino to go away, because he won't. And sooner or later the Gauls will do something stupid, even if we avoid that this turn. That will give Gemino more strength and options, so we want to be trimming him down to size (I think a haircut right around the neckline would suit) as soon as practical.
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Yessir, I agree we can't stay on the defensive forever - hopefully it's for just one or two turns in order to secure our basic fighting position, after which it'd be more suitable to go on the offensive fully.

While there's something to be said for harassing Gemino, I'd rather make certain that we have the food we need and then be free to take the fight to him full force, than try to split our attention and have possibly the former (our basic prerequisite to fighting in the first place) go awry again. Besides, it not only reflects badly on us to muck up our supplies again, weakening Sertorius's scheme and operations as whole... it'll make him even more disappointed in us. The -horror-! :o

Which... is probably basically the consensus opinion anyway, so I might just be preaching to the choir :D
 
[X] Plan Cunctator
-[X] Castrum Aestiva
-[X] Garrison
-[X] Eliminate the Bandits
--[X] Use the Gauls
--[X] Join the hunt
-[X] Establish Supply Lines
--[X] Pompolussa
-[X] Liberate the Towns
-[X] Connect With Elders
-[X] Study Logistics
 
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Warfare and Battle Mechanics
  • Informational
    • Welcome to another installment of "Telamon Explains Something He Should've Explained a While Back, But Didn't Fully Flesh Out Until Now".

    Today, we'll be covering Warfare and Battle in Antiquity. Awesome modifiers and cool-sounding ranks with big numbers next to them look awesome on paper, but a fight between two legendary generals (Caesar and Pompey) would hypothetically look like this if you just threw their personal modifiers and army modifiers together:

    Hypothetical Fucking Awesome Battle That Never Happened said:
    Attack Pompey (Julius Caesar): 1d20 +8 (Legendary Military) +8 (Legendary Command) +5 (Gift of Mars) +3 (Elite Troops) +2 (High Ground) = 45
    versus
    Attack Caesar (Pompey Magnus): 1d20 +8 (Legendary Military) +8 (Legendary Command) +5 (Gift of Mars) +3 (Elite Troops) -2 (Terrain Disadvantage) =38
    Result: Holy Shit Those Are Some Big Numbers
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    That's not, historically, how battles happened in real life, however. Rather, when commanders fight on the level of armies and campaigns, generals often don't command personally, and a brilliant general's stats can be screwed over by a weakness in those under him. That's why in legion-scale battles and up, the rolls are done between different flanks of the army engaging one another. So, say, a battle between Pompey and Caesar under this system would realistically look like this:

    Significantly Less Awesome But More Realistic Battle said:
    Attack Pompey's Flank (Caesar Underling #4): 1d20 + 1 (Proficient Military) + 0 (Average Command) +3 (Elite Troops) +2 (High Ground) = 18
    versus
    Defend the Flanks (Pompey Underling #35): 1d20 + 1 (Proficent Military) + 2 (Accomplished Command) +3 (Elite Troops) -2 (High Ground) = 16
    Result: Narrow Victory
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    A general's high stats aren't worthless on this scale, however. Any modifiers they add are applied to their troops on an army-wide scale, so if Caesar has a (Fuck Pompey) modifier which gives him +3 to all combats with Pompey, all his troops get it. Half a general's command skill is also applied to morale rolls to see if the flank/cohort/what have you breaks. For example:

    Pompeian Morale Check: 1d20 + 4 (Legendary Command) +3 (Elite Troops) = 12
    Needed: 5
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    Morale Check DCs depend on the closeness of the defeat (i.e, a Narrow Defeat is a DC 5, while a Resounding Defeat is a DC 14, and a Crippling Defeat (20 vs a 1, almost impossible without terrain/tactical advantage) would be a DC 18. After every defeat in a round of combat, the Morale Check DC for the next round increases by 1 no matter what. So, in the next turn of the hypothetical battle above, Pompey's cohort would have to beat a DC 6 if they lost narrowly again, and a DC 15 if they lost Resoundingly.

    A general's personal cohort, which he is in command of, obviously receives all of his boosts, and so a force personally commanded by Pompey would decimate anything it came into contact with -- unless, of course, the shit commander to his flank crumbled, giving him a -4 tactical disadvantage, and the one to the right of him broke as well, giving him another tactical disadvantage and a -6 outnumbered malus. He might not do so well then, and his only reasonable choice would be to flee.

    A general with a high logistics or military score might instead chose to remain behind the main force and command the entirety of the battle, giving all of his troops half of his military stat as an armywide bonus to combat, and half of his logistics skill as an armywide bonus to movement.

    What does this mean? Well, it means fuckheug stats will not and cannot always win the day. Feeding your troops, keeping their morale up, and selecting competent subordinates is just as important in this game is it would have been in real life. Later, when you can make large-scale strategic decisions, things like picking the terrain and making pre-battle choices (say, splitting your force in half to attack from behind and in front) may add modifiers which will turn the tide of battle against even a vastly more skilled opponent.

    (Note: This is all subject to change and modification in the future as Telamon wrangles with his oldest and greatest enemy, numbers.)
     
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  • Informational
    • [X] Plan Cunctator
    -[X] Castrum Aestiva
    -[X] Garrison
    -[X] Eliminate the Bandits
    --[X] Use the Gauls
    --[X] Join the hunt
    -[X] Establish Supply Lines
    --[X] Pompolussa
    -[X] Liberate the Towns
    -[X] Connect With Elders
    -[X] Study Logistics


    Well,we can lost most of battle but can still win the war if our logistic is in order.
     
    D King Hecht said:
    Of course Caesar was going to win, he had the high ground.
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    Gaius Julius Caesar - "Its over Pompey, I have the high ground!"
    Gnaeus Pompeius the Younger - "You underestimate my power"

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    [old] Plan Gauls & Glory Modified
    -[] Castrum Aestiva     You keep the camp as it is, a lightly-defended summer camp composed mainly of tents and a thin outer wall. The Ninth are freed to work on other things, and the legion has a place to sleep.
    -[] Garrison You send the Sixth to Aquilonia, to garrison the city and protect it for an indeterminate period of time. This will mean effectively losing the Sixth for the next few weeks -- and all the weeks after that, should you choose to continue the garrison.
    -[] Eliminate the Bandits You set one of the cohorts to tracking down and eliminating the numerous bandit groups plaguing the hills around Bovianum. There are many places for crafty and cunning natives to hide, and it will no doubt be an arduous task to track down and destroy each group of then.
    -[] Defeat the Rebels You continue the hunt for the crafty and wily rebel captain Gemino.
    --[] You join the hunt for Gemino yourself (-1 Personal Action)
    --[]     Use the Gauls: The Gallic Auxiliaries you brought with you have sat back and done little for the last week, largely being used to forage and scavenge for supplies. Their ferocity is both a boon and a drawback -- if they attack or loot the very people you're meant to be protecting, your authority in Bovianum will take a nosedive. (Can Only Be Used Once, Does Not Use Up a Command Vote if Used)
    -[] Establish Supply Lines     You try again to establish a supply line to Boventum, and you delegate the task to...
    --[] Pompolussa assures you he can easily do it, but assigning him here will mean the Second cannot perform any of the many tasks for which it is needed.
    -[] Connect With Elders: The elders of Bovianum are some of the most influental and powerful men in Samnium. By making connections among them, you could shift how you are seen in the eyes of the Samnite people as a whole.
    -[] Study Logistics: You read books on planning and organization, hoping to gain greater mastery of logistics and large-scale planning.

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    Edit: @Telamon, I am unsure about something.

    Telamon said:
    (Can Only Be Used Once, Does Not Use Up a Command Vote if Used)
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    This quote seems to imply, that if we send the Gauls on a mission, we actually have a Pick 4 Command Votes not just 3 Command votes that you say we have.
     
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    Temes1066 said:
    Gaius Julius Caesar - "Its over Pompey, I have the high ground!"
    Gnaeus Pompeius the Younger - "You underestimate my power"

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    [X] Plan Gauls & Glory Modified
    -[X] Castrum Aestiva     You keep the camp as it is, a lightly-defended summer camp composed mainly of tents and a thin outer wall. The Ninth are freed to work on other things, and the legion has a place to sleep.
    -[X] Garrison You send the Sixth to Aquilonia, to garrison the city and protect it for an indeterminate period of time. This will mean effectively losing the Sixth for the next few weeks -- and all the weeks after that, should you choose to continue the garrison.
    -[X] Eliminate the Bandits You set one of the cohorts to tracking down and eliminating the numerous bandit groups plaguing the hills around Bovianum. There are many places for crafty and cunning natives to hide, and it will no doubt be an arduous task to track down and destroy each group of then.
    -[X] Defeat the Rebels You continue the hunt for the crafty and wily rebel captain Gemino.
    --[X] You join the hunt for Gemino yourself (-1 Personal Action)
    --[X]     Use the Gauls: The Gallic Auxiliaries you brought with you have sat back and done little for the last week, largely being used to forage and scavenge for supplies. Their ferocity is both a boon and a drawback -- if they attack or loot the very people you're meant to be protecting, your authority in Bovianum will take a nosedive. (Can Only Be Used Once, Does Not Use Up a Command Vote if Used)
    -[X] Establish Supply Lines     You try again to establish a supply line to Boventum, and you delegate the task to...
    --[X] Pompolussa assures you he can easily do it, but assigning him here will mean the Second cannot perform any of the many tasks for which it is needed.
    -[X] Connect With Elders: The elders of Bovianum are some of the most influental and powerful men in Samnium. By making connections among them, you could shift how you are seen in the eyes of the Samnite people as a whole.
    -[X] Study Logistics: You read books on planning and organization, hoping to gain greater mastery of logistics and large-scale planning.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Edit: @Telamon, I am unsure about something.



    This quote seems to imply, that if we send the Gauls on a mission, we actually have a Pick 4 Command Votes not just 3 Command votes that you say we have.
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    Yes, that's correct. 3 normal Command Votes, plus a Fourth if you choose to use the Gauls (at the risk of them being, well...the Gauls).
     
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