Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome

[Simon_Jester]

If the number is 'people being honored get half a year's pay,' then honoring legionnaires adds up pretty fast.

Assuming there were a combination of about 50-60 men who participated in Mercator's charge and Titus's arson combined, then to give them all honors would cost about one talent (that is to say, each man gets the equivalent of, oh, twenty thousand dollars or something like that, combining to somewhere in the neighborhood of a million).

Now, the loot, counting only gold and valuables measured in talents, is about 24.5 talents. If we divvy up an extra talent among a group of men who consist of roughly 10% of the cohort (that is, 50-60 men, as estimated above), then in effect we're giving them an extra share of the pay that amounts to, um... I don't actually know how the Romans normally divide up loot, but it'd be something like giving them an extra share of the loot. Maybe 50% more or twice as much as they'd normally get.

This seems... reasonably fair. Most of the Romans who fought in the battle are going to agree that the men who fought with Mercator and Titus did enough to save and help their fellow Romans that a double share of the loot is not unwarranted. Furthermore, if we have to detail men to perform special duties in the future, it will give them an incentive to volunteer, and to fight bravely, because they know they stand to receive honors if they perform their duties conspicuously well.

Then we'd be splitting up another talent worth of loot between Mercator, Titus, and Maximinus. I'd seriously consider rewarding Tercerus for a job well done, and if he weren't our servant I'd be strongly in favor of it. As it stands, I can go either way on rewarding Tercerus.

Either way, the money earmarked for honors would be about 10% of the total, so the rest of the legion is 'only' getting about 10% less than they otherwise would, which would hopefully feel fair-ish to them as well as to me.

Perhaps we should also sacrifice one of our gifts to the gods?

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We could maybe arrange for Tercopholes to be the October Horse, sacrificed to Mars? It'd be a good way to raise our social profile a bit in Rome.

Of course, it is now April and that's a while from now.

 

[Spacegnom]

Personally, I think I'm gonna vote for the honors outlined by @Publicola :
[] Honors
-[] Mercator
-[] Titus Gallio
-[] Maximius
-[] The Cohort

The three men who distinguished themselves and the cohort as a whole. Yes, those chosen for the charge performed admirably. But, they did so because they were chosen to perform that duty. Honors are given for perfomace beyond expectations.
Edit: The same argument could be made for not honoring the whole cohort. But, I see this as more of an attempt to gain their loyalty.
No honors for us, honors for all of them!

 

[Simon_Jester]

It's actually unclear whether the men who participated in Mercator's charge and Titus' burning were selected or volunteered, and either way they undertook unusually hazardous duty.

Furthermore, if we try to reward the entire cohort with honors it eats up about ten talents of our loot, which means that after the rest is divided up by standard rules the officers get a pittance, and the bulk of the legion only gets about 50% more than they would have gotten anyway. That... may backfire against us.

 

[Spacegnom]

Furthermore, if we try to reward the entire cohort with honors it eats up about ten talents of our loot, which means that after the rest is divided up by standard rules the officers get a pittance, and the bulk of the legion only gets about 50% more than they would have gotten anyway. That... may backfire against us.

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Mhh good point, my goal (achieving loyalty from the whole cohort including the officers) can probaly be better achieved by only honoring those three and then letting everyone else profit from higher base rewards.

Regardless, the whole vote is pretty uncontentious. That is probaly why there is such a lack of discussion during this moratorium.

 

[JamesShazbond]

If we pick up the horse, I wonder if we can set up a horse ranch down the line.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Mhh good point, my goal (achieving loyalty from the whole cohort including the officers) can probaly be better achieved by only honoring those three and then letting everyone else profit from higher base rewards.

Regardless, the whole vote is pretty uncontentious. That is probaly why there is such a lack of discussion during this moratorium.

Click to shrink...

Well, the big questions are:

1) Do we reward Tercerus? People seem to be 'meh' about this.
2) Do we reward the cohort, or the specific body of men who assisted in the key parts of the battle? Most people want one or the other.

3) Which treasure do we take from the spoils? There's not a lot of agreement about this one, but people also don't seem very excited about it.

4) What do we do about the bandits? I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been more talk about this.

 

[Dark Abstraction]

If we pick up the horse, I wonder if we can set up a horse ranch down the line.

Click to shrink...

Actually, this is probably one of the best ways we could use this horse if we choose it for ourselves. It's got a notable lineage and impressive qualities, even discounting the Bucephalus bit, so selling its use as a breeding stud once the campaign ends would probably be incredibly lucrative, both financially and prestigiously. And the tablet as a gift would be absolutely priceless both prestigiously and in principle as a gift of oratory wisdom given to a scholarly-inclined man, so we'd all but secure Sertorius' lasting gratitude and friendship by presenting it to him.

Alternatively, flip those; the horse is good as a gift for those same reasons and we could directly benefit from the prestige of the tablet. But personally, I wouldn't do it this way; the kind of reputation we'd build as someone whose gratitude only be measured by the term 'priceless', in conjunction with keeping mastery of a horse descended from Bucephalus because it was the lesser potential gift, would probably be about as valuable than the tablet itself.


As for honors, I think Mercator, Titus, and Maximus are pretty good choices (I could go either way with Tercerus, honestly). It honors those men most influencial to our victory while also maintaining some humility for ourselves and allowing a higher foundation of payment for the cohort and legion; makes it known that Atellus rewards acts of military distinction justly, regardless of political climate, that he is humble despite his competence, and that he understands the economics of the legions. All incredibly important things for gaining the love of the legion(s), which will be important in the years to come.

 

[Spacegnom]

Well, the big questions are:

1) Do we reward Tercerus? People seem to be 'meh' about this.
2) Do we reward the cohort, or the specific body of men who assisted in the key parts of the battle? Most people want one or the other.

3) Which treasure do we take from the spoils? There's not a lot of agreement about this one, but people also don't seem very excited about it.

4) What do we do about the bandits? I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been more talk about this.

Click to shrink...

1) Seems like mostly no's all around to me. For the same reasons people want to forego awarding an honor to ourselves.

2) Well, as you reminded me. The less people we honor the more we reward the cohort. I think all plans will include Mercartor, Titus and Maximus. The rest is really not that contentious of a point.

3) Interesting, my impression was that almost everyone agreed that the Tablet would long term be the best for ourselves. For Sertorius I got the impression it's gonna be either horse or map.

4) Pretty sure most people are gonna go for either: 'Delegate & threaten the Samnites' or 'simply leave'. (Or a write-in to similar effect).
Speculation: The difference between those two options is probably that the success of the former depends on a dice roll. Failure = worse than just leaving. Bare Failure/Success = basically the same result as 'simply leave'. Success = better standing with both Samnites & Sertorius.

 

[Simon_Jester]

@Dark Abstraction , how do you feel about passing out honors (and, in effect, something like 50%-100% higher shares of the loot) to the soldiers specifically involved in Mercator and Titus's special operations? It'd come out of everyone else's paycheck, but only to the tune of 5%-10% of their totals, depending on the exact nnumbers involved which I don't actually know.

 

[kaeim]

I would say in light of the failed blessing by the gods, we need to demonstrate our piety to them by offering them one of our gifts. I would vote for sacrificing the horse, not in our name but in the name of our legion.

That would build up a lot of goodwill not only with the priesthood and the people of Rome, but also with the Legion.

 

[Dark Abstraction]

@Dark Abstraction , how do you feel about passing out honors (and, in effect, something like 50%-100% higher shares of the loot) to the soldiers specifically involved in Mercator and Titus's special operations? It'd come out of everyone else's paycheck, but only to the tune of 5%-10% of their totals, depending on the exact nnumbers involved which I don't actually know.

Click to shrink...

Same boat as Tercerus; I'm on the fence and prepared to go either way. If we did honor those men, I'd prefer that we then absolutely not do Tercerus, simply to avoid honor-bloat. But beyond that concern, I think it's as viable an option as any.


Really though, my fellow questers, I think that the superior option here would be to give the tablet as a gift and keep the horse. We've been building a reputation, up to this point; Quintus Cingulatus Atellus repays honor and generosity done unto him many-fold. We have, through our actions and influences, caused a resurgence of prestige and favor towards Scaevola even despite the political climate. Here and now, we could cement that reputation - there is a tremendous amount of prestige in owning one of those tablets, in being the bearer of that kind of wisdom; imagine, then, the kind of prestige in being a man known to give such a thing as a gift to the man who provided honor and tutelage to us during our time with his legion.

We would forever etch into the minds of Rome that Quintus Cingulatus Atellus in a man to enter into confidence with; Quintus, who takes what his confidants give him, leverages it into arete, and unto those confidants he offers repayment beyond expectation. We could leverage this into becoming one of the brightest rising stars in Rome.

 

[Spacegnom]

[] Plan Honors, Spoils & Bandits
-[] Mercator
-[] Titus Gallio
-[] Maximius
-[] The Tablet of Ascargantus
-[] The Mural of Simbellia
--[] You took this as a gift for Sertorius.
-[] You draft several Samnites from the surrounding towns, deputize them, and task them with hunting down these forces, warning them that betrayal or laxness in their duties will be met with the same fate as Aeclanum.

So, I've gone ahead and written up my prefered plan:
Minimum honors. The tablet to longterm boost both our Speech & Prestige. The Mural for Sertorius as a largely symbolic gift (TBH I don't think he really needs another nice horse). When it comes to the bandits I wanna try and use our new trait to try and threaten the Samnites into submission.

That said, as I posted earlier I'm quite flexible on most of these votes:
Honors: I'm willing to go up to 4 honors, 3 of which should be those listed above.
Spoils: The horse and the blades are also interesting spoils, both for Sertorius and ourself.
Bandits: I'm not opposed to simply leave or vote for a write-in that doesn't cost us & our troops much time.

 

[Professor Vesca]

[] Mercator
[] Tercerus
[] Titus Gallio
[] Maximius
[] Write-In: The Chosen Men: the legionnaires who accompanied Mercator in the charge that broke the Samnite resistance outside the town, and those who accompannied Titus Gallio in his effort to fire the buildings.

SPOILS
[] The Tablet of Ascargantus
--[] You took this as a gift for Sertorius
[] The Steed of Cassimaius

Honor us, become our friend, our patron, and we shall honor you in kind ten times, and ten times again.

 

[kaeim]

[] Plan What is Due
-[] Mercator
-[] Tercerus
-[] Titus Gallio
-[] Maximius
-[] Write-In: The Chosen Men: the legionnaires who accompanied Mercator in the charge that broke the Samnite resistance outside the town, and those who accompannied Titus Gallio in his effort to fire the buildings.

SPOILS
[] The Tablet of Ascargantus
--[] You took this as a gift for Sertorius
[] The Steed of Cassimaius
--[] You took this as a sacrifice for the gods
[] The Mural of Simbellia

 

[firestorm440]

Tablet is a good gift idea. I'm not decided between the horse and the sword yet - do we have the business skill to make a go of the stable?

 

[Undead Martyr]

The tablet I think we shoild take for ourselves. And give the map; then again I can be convinced. Sacrificing the horse is a fair idea too, but I could see its use.

As far as the legion goes, honor the officers and the men with Mercator. Don't honor tercerus.

 

[Dark Abstraction]

Tablet is a good gift idea. I'm not decided between the horse and the sword yet - do we have the business skill to make a go of the stable?

Click to shrink...

If we don't, we can give orders to make it happen. We've got vineyards providing our estate with income, so diverting some (or all, depending on how much speed we'd like to do it with) of that profit towards setting up a horse ranch should be viable. And it would allow us to ensure that the prestige from the horse's pedigree endures past just its lifespan; instead of one monumentally well-bred horse for ourselves, we'll have set up a system of producing many such steeds, to the benefit of our family for generations to come.

The benefit of the horse isn't just its immediate prestige, it's that we can branch that prestige into lucrative financial and political capital. Imagine Julius Caesar's Triumph upon his return from Gaul - now imagine that he deliberately sought out Atellus-raised stallions to pull that chariot. Imagine Crassus offering to pay a premium for exclusive rights to use our stallions as breeding studs for his own stables. That's the real benefit of having a horse with such a lineage at out disposal; it'll cost us time and money to set up the system to exploit this, but once we do we'll be able to leverage it for pretty much the rest of the quest.

 

[Publicola]

If we don't gift the 'Mural' to Sertorius, we should not pick it for ourselves -- its symbolic value is greatest when it belongs to the governor/conqueror of the region, not a 'lowly' tribune responsible for a single cohort.

Picking the horse for ourselves is potentially a big windfall, but only if we're able to convert that horse into a ranch via studding service. Need I remind people that our Stewardship skills suck? Besides, check out those descriptions again: the horse is described as beautiful, but besides an obviously false rumor of its descent from Bucephalus, there's nothing to indicate the horse may be legendary. It's just a really impressive horse. The 'Tablet' is unquestionably legendary -- extraordinarily important as a cultural record, as well as exceedingly rare (less than 40, and all of those in private estates around the peninsula). Our strength is our Oratory skills -- that's why we picked Scaevola as patron, and why we befriended Cicero. This is our chance to double-down on our strengths, rather than rely on our weakest stat for a future windfall.


@Telamon, are we allowed to sacrifice one of the items to the gods? Because I agree that sacrificing the horse might be a good way to honor the gods and (hopefully) get a better 'prophecy' roll later.

 

[firestorm440]

If we don't, we can give orders to make it happen. We've got vineyards providing our estate with income, so diverting some (or all, depending on how much speed we'd like to do it with) of that profit towards setting up a horse ranch should be viable. And it would allow us to ensure that the prestige from the horse's pedigree endures past just its lifespan; instead of one monumentally well-bred horse for ourselves, we'll have set up a system of producing many such steeds, to the benefit of our family for generations to come.

The benefit of the horse isn't just its immediate prestige, it's that we can branch that prestige into lucrative financial and political capital. Imagine Julius Caesar's Triumph upon his return from Gaul - now imagine that he deliberately sought out Atellus-raised stallions to pull that chariot. Imagine Crassus offering to pay a premium for exclusive rights to use our stallions as breeding studs for his own stables. That's the real benefit of having a horse with such a lineage at out disposal; it'll cost us time and money to set up the system to exploit this, but once we do we'll be able to leverage it for pretty much the rest of the quest.

Click to shrink...

Alright, you've sold me on taking the horse for stud.

 

[Simon_Jester]

[X] Plan Arts, Laurels, and Headhunters
-[X] Mercator
-[X] Titus Gallio
-[X] Maximius
-[X] Write-In: The Chosen Men: the legionnaires who accompanied Mercator in the charge that broke the Samnite resistance outside the town, and those who accompannied Titus Gallio in his effort to fire the buildings.
-[X] The Tablet of Ascargantus
-[X] The Mural of Simbellia
--[X] You took this as a gift for Sertorius
-[X] Write-In: You draft several Samnites from the surrounding towns, deputize them, and task them with hunting down these forces, warning them that betrayal or laxness in their duties will be met with the same fate as Aeclanum. As compensation, you offer a modest bounty for bandit heads.
-[X] Yes, spend some of our XP this turn
--[X] 9 XP
--[X] Combat

 

[ThatGuyWithIdeas]

[X] Plan Arts, Laurels, and Headhunters
-[X] Mercator
-[X] Titus Gallio
-[X] Maximius
-[X] Write-In: The Chosen Men: the legionnaires who accompanied Mercator in the charge that broke the Samnite resistance outside the town, and those who accompannied Titus Gallio in his effort to fire the buildings.
-[X] The Tablet of Ascargantus
-[X] The Mural of Simbellia
--[X] You took this as a gift for Sertorius
-[X] Write-In: You draft several Samnites from the surrounding towns, deputize them, and task them with hunting down these forces, warning them that betrayal or laxness in their duties will be met with the same fate as Aeclanum. As compensation, you offer a modest bounty for bandit heads.
-[X] Yes, Use 9 of our XP this turn to Combat

 

[Spacegnom]

[X] Plan Arts, Laurels, and Headhunters

 

[Telamon]

If we don't gift the 'Mural' to Sertorius, we should not pick it for ourselves -- its symbolic value is greatest when it belongs to the governor/conqueror of the region, not a 'lowly' tribune responsible for a single cohort.

Picking the horse for ourselves is potentially a big windfall, but only if we're able to convert that horse into a ranch via studding service. Need I remind people that our Stewardship skills suck? Besides, check out those descriptions again: the horse is described as beautiful, but besides an obviously false rumor of its descent from Bucephalus, there's nothing to indicate the horse may be legendary. It's just a really impressive horse. The 'Tablet' is unquestionably legendary -- extraordinarily important as a cultural record, as well as exceedingly rare (less than 40, and all of those in private estates around the peninsula). Our strength is our Oratory skills -- that's why we picked Scaevola as patron, and why we befriended Cicero. This is our chance to double-down on our strengths, rather than rely on our weakest stat for a future windfall.


@Telamon, are we allowed to sacrifice one of the items to the gods? Because I agree that sacrificing the horse might be a good way to honor the gods and (hopefully) get a better 'prophecy' roll later.

Click to shrink...

You can sacrifice the horse...at the cost of taking it yourself. Or rather, you take it yourself and sacrifice it. And the items you do not select don't exist, or rather, they aren't found. Perhaps the horse ran away before the battle, the tablet burned in one of the buildings, and Spurio in his greed hid his wealth too well. Or maybe the blade was taken by a fleeing Samnite, and will survive as a weapon of its people...

Anyhow, as Simon_Jester has noticed, voting is open.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Ahh. A pity, in that case, about Spurio's hoard; we're almost certain not to take it and the legion would love to have it.

 

[kaeim]

[X] Plan What is Due
-[X] Mercator
-[X] Tercerus
-[X] Titus Gallio
-[X] Maximius
-[X] Write-In: The Chosen Men: the legionnaires who accompanied Mercator in the charge that broke the Samnite resistance outside the town, and those who accompannied Titus Gallio in his effort to fire the buildings.

SPOILS
[X] The Tablet of Ascargantus
--[X] You took this as a gift for Sertorius
[X] The Steed of Cassimaius
--[X] You took this as a sacrifice for the gods in the name of the legion

-[X] Write-In: You draft several Samnites from the surrounding towns, deputize them, and task them with hunting down these forces, warning them that betrayal or laxness in their duties will be met with the same fate as Aeclanum. As compensation, you offer a modest bounty for bandit heads.