- Location
- Classified
I mean, we're actually just one level under average, which sucks but isn't a disaster. If we'd stayed in Rome, we might have been able to get some more tutoring from Scaevola. Here's hoping he doesn't die until we get back.
Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Original Historic
- Location
- va
[X] Plan a permanent solution
-[X] Court-Martial
-[X] Call It Peace
-[X] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[X] The Left Hand Strays
-[X] The Legate
-[X] The Old Teacher
-[X] Court-Martial
-[X] Call It Peace
-[X] A Law Beyond The Sword
-[X] The Left Hand Strays
-[X] The Legate
-[X] The Old Teacher
Edit: Actually after rereading the arguments A Social War seems somewhat less of a pipe dream so I'll go with:
[X] Plan Fidelis Constans
[X] Plan Fidelis Constans
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Again, if the blurb in the previous update (VI, I think) is to be believed, Sertorius and Cinna believe they can plausibly hope to subdue the Samnites without exterminating them. Not that they'd be devastated if the Samnites fight to the last man and are crushed as a people, but they seem to think they can force the Samnites to kneel rather than die. And they, IC, know the Samnites a lot better than we do, because while to us the Samnites are 'eternal enemies of Rome,' to Cinna and Sertorius, they're also 'oh yeah, those guys over there.' They should know what is and is not possible, and they seem to think A Social War is an acceptable default plan.
I can't claim to have noticed this before assembling plan Fidelis Constans, but it did make me more confident in doing so when I noticed.
I can't claim to have noticed this before assembling plan Fidelis Constans, but it did make me more confident in doing so when I noticed.
- Location
- NY
[X] Court-Martial
[X] Call It Peace
[X] Coin Is Mightier Than The Sword
[X] The Left Hand Strays
[X] The Legate
[X] The Old Teacher
[X] Call It Peace
[X] Coin Is Mightier Than The Sword
[X] The Left Hand Strays
[X] The Legate
[X] The Old Teacher
[X] Plan Vae Victis
- [X] Court-Martial
- [x] Call It Peace
- [x] Training
- [X] Coin Is Mightier Than The Sword
- [X] The Legate
- [x] Silver Tongues, Silver Words
I just want to gain some wealth for maximum gain,try to kiss our new boss is not so bad for social war but that don't give us any real bargaining chip in bribe but we need to depend on other guy leniency .
I can understand social war ...we are modern people and the creator of the plan don't want to stand position on modern morality but let be clear...social war is bad for our position.
We involve in new man politic and voting blog of political faction,choose another option get wealth and glory but stay neutral in sacking the samnite.
- [X] Court-Martial
- [x] Call It Peace
- [x] Training
- [X] Coin Is Mightier Than The Sword
- [X] The Legate
- [x] Silver Tongues, Silver Words
I just want to gain some wealth for maximum gain,try to kiss our new boss is not so bad for social war but that don't give us any real bargaining chip in bribe but we need to depend on other guy leniency .
I can understand social war ...we are modern people and the creator of the plan don't want to stand position on modern morality but let be clear...social war is bad for our position.
We involve in new man politic and voting blog of political faction,choose another option get wealth and glory but stay neutral in sacking the samnite.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The way I see it, with Fidelis Constans we're the guy who counseled Sertorius to stick with the plan to conquer the Samnites. With Vae Victis we're the guy who went out of his way to change the plan to annihilate the Samnites for personal gain.
- Location
- Central Europe
Call it Peace is obviously the way Sertorius stands to profit the most. He is the one who is trying to tempt us into taking all that land. Whether we would go along with it due to personal ambition, wanting to support him or to erradicate a potential pro-marius force is subject to interpretation.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It sounds like Sertorius is genuinely torn about whether to exceed his orders and crush the Samnites (for personal gain), stick with his orders and conquer them, or at least as a possible option to just slap them around a bit (the 'short campaign' option). If he wasn't torn about this he wouldn't be asking for advice. I certainly don't think he's trying to tempt us into taking big piles of land, since he could simply order the legion to crush the Samnites.
I'm not saying the personal gain would all be ours, Sertorius would definitely profit handsomely.
[Also, a legion of Sertorius loyalists settled on conquered Samnite land is unlikely to turn out to be less pro-Marian than the Samnites themselves, in my opinion]
- Location
- Central Europe
Well with that argument this whole vote is a farce. He doesn't have to ask us for any advice. As you say he can do what ever he wants with his legion. That said, this quest is designed to give us some agency. Thus, what ever we decide/advise here will probably be done.
Personally, I doubt Sertorius wants to follow Cinna's intentions. He would prefer a legion loyal to himself over Samnites loyal to Cinna/Marius.
It would take time to allocate this land to Sertorius legionaries. Years to decimate the Samnites. Months to pass through the Senate. Years to settle the Land. During all this time two Pro-Marius forces will be engaged and ultimately weakened for a few years.
Call for Peace is in the short term 1-5 years definitely the most pro-Sulla option available.
Edit: And should Sulla lose, we have a new Mentor in Sertorius with loyal legionaries and land to spare.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
No see, that's my point. Sertorius is genuinely asking us for advice, because he is genuinely conflicted about what to do.
Possibly so- but if he weren't conflicted about it, he wouldn't be asking us for advice.
So it comes down to, are we counseling him to stick with the plan to conquer the Samnites, or to overstep his orders and destroy the Samnites for personal gain? Left to his own devices he might choose either outcome, of course.
I, for one, vote to counsel him to stick with the plan to conquer the Samnites, so that's what Plan Fidelis Constans does.
This strikes me as a really indirect way to 'support' Sulla.
If we were that interested in supporting Sulla, we probably shouldn't have informed on Pompey's plot.
[Also, given what 'And Call it Peace' does to the Samnites, decimation would be a kindness compared to what would really happen. Let's use words to mean what they mean...]
- Location
- Central Europe
I ratted on Pompey, because I didn't believe his conspiracy had much of a chance. Pompey also wasn't very pro-Sulla. His father let Marius march into Rome unopposed.
I see two possible outcomes here: Either Sulla wins (Stick with Scaevola) or Cinna/Marius/Young Marius stay in power (Align with Sertorius).
Call it Peace will either boost Sertorius's position in the Marian faction. Or (If Sulla returns), will allow us to claim to have arranged two of his foes to struggle and weaken.
I'm not here to debate morality. But, decimation means killing 1 in 10. That sounds like it would be roughly in the ballpark of what is described under Call it Peace.
Edit: (The rest would be resettled and/or enslaved. Which is not in any way a better fate. But, I don't see this option calling for the complete extinction of their people)
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'd be... not pleasantly surprised, but less-unpleasantly surprised, if the death toll among the Samnites from resisting the relocation campaign 'only' hit ten percent.
- Location
- Central Europe
In the end it would be a genocide no doubt about that. Anyway, looking at the vote we probably won't find out what the QM had planned for us down that route. Of course, Sertorius could still overrule us or the realities of the campaign could force our hand.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
[X] Plan Fidelis Constans
- Location
- Europe
Now this is an exciting quest. Glad to see both good writing and interesting discussions.
[X] Plan Fidelis Constans
I am not particularly bothered by the morality of the war. I'm just a little wary of letting a general who isn't Quintus plant loyal veteran soldiers in the middle of Italy. It's probably unfunded.
In the same vein I don't care about saving the republic, I'd rather pull a Caesar on it, but that is still decades away if not impossible.
Spending time with the mentors is certainly not wasted and sorting out the pay is always important (the army doesn't march on just its stomach).
Not quite convinced by training the tribunes, but spending time with Rufus might not be so bad.
[X] Plan Fidelis Constans
I am not particularly bothered by the morality of the war. I'm just a little wary of letting a general who isn't Quintus plant loyal veteran soldiers in the middle of Italy. It's probably unfunded.
In the same vein I don't care about saving the republic, I'd rather pull a Caesar on it, but that is still decades away if not impossible.
Spending time with the mentors is certainly not wasted and sorting out the pay is always important (the army doesn't march on just its stomach).
Not quite convinced by training the tribunes, but spending time with Rufus might not be so bad.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
In fairness to my opposition, Sertorius is arguably the best possible choice for a general to have loyal soldiers in the heart of Italy from our point of view. He's young enough that he'll outlive Marius barring extreme misfortune, and compared with any of the other Roman generals of his generation (e.g. Sulla), he is far more likely to be well-disposed to us.
IF we could steer him into a position of pre-eminence within Rome, then that might well be to our advantage; he'd be in some ways a second patron to us and we might well stand to inherit his power base when he dies or becomes too old to take an active role in Roman affairs (he's twenty years older than us, roughly, as I remember).
If people really, really want the Caesar route, then they could do a lot worse than finishing the job of helping Sertorius talk himself into ethnically cleansing the Samnites for his (and our) benefit.
Yeah,to be the good man or great man question.
To let other decide our fate or determine our fate with our decision.
Also any idea to prevent decline of Republic,I think we should tax the woman but also give them right to vote.
"No taxation without representation",This way we can gain more tax because women become wealthy by doing business and that is quite big loophole in my opinion.
Tax women in exchange for their right to senator should be reasonable.(We can have more money double with taxing half of population but senator need a lot of influence to be elected anyway
)