Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Original Historic
globalwarmth
ruining the weather.
- Location
- Polar ice caps
I say we [] Make Terms
we are a couple years younger so we are ahead of the game
then just make a really good job ( and continue to fan the cult )
we are a couple years younger so we are ahead of the game
then just make a really good job ( and continue to fan the cult )
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Notably, our partner controls the command staff.
What does this mean for "make terms"? We use the cult to help leverage him into a more lopsided deal?
- Location
- USA
This is probably something else that we should do, as we want our Legion to still be in effective fighting order. The thing is we probably should leave this to Cassianus considering our Engineering skills are...
Yeah, that, let's not tempt fate and end up creating a rocks fall everyone dies moment because we stacked rocks wrong.
This is something I think we also should do and is something we're uniquely suited for. After all we dealt with a similar issue at the start of the Samnite War, dealing with that murder case. Here, we have a greater reputation with the men, and we're not firmly wedded to one side. If we wish to avoid having the Equites betray us to Sulla later, as is likely their wont to do, we will need to engender support from both sides.
Panory
The Omake Dragon
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Make terms is just lay out who does what. Marius was pretty vague about what being half in control of a legion entails. It would limit our power, but it would also limit his, and give a clear chain of command at the cost of the legion being less flexible.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They were asking what does using the influence MC being head of the Cult of Mars do in terms of influencing the "Make Terms" deal, not asking what "Make Terms" itself does.
- Location
- Texas
The Romans would call it tough negotiations. If the majority of the officers support you being in charge of, say, the legion's pay, it will be easier to establish that in discussions.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
We don't really known what kind of person Cassianus is yet, so we should think about the choice about how to behave around him to be a personal choice; what do we want? Do we want another ally here? Do we want to secure the legion? Remember that the more power we exert the easier it would be for Cassianus to blame us if something goes wrong.
And regardless of what we choose we should shore up our position in the legion. Even if we make terms, we want to make terms on the firmest ground possible. Promoting centurions seems the most obvious choice.
And regardless of what we choose we should shore up our position in the legion. Even if we make terms, we want to make terms on the firmest ground possible. Promoting centurions seems the most obvious choice.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Not to go back and forth but that's a very good point. It seems trying to push for control of the legion is just making an enemy we don't need to and putting ourselves in danger we could avoid. we're good at making friends, let's make friends.
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
Marius is truly a god among men, to think he's both the greatest general of his age and capable of surgery such as to tear a man's guts free from his body and yet keep him alive.
Visella Tertia disagrees.
- Location
- Austria
Jesus Christ, Marius.
On vote...well. Tough.
I would say we should utilize our refreshed Greek and make local connections.
Also, ability to study under Marius, however little, is absolutely priceless. Man is a genius. So we probably want to try connecting and studying his African campaign.
Paying out of our own pocket for legion stuff should ingratiate legion more to us. As should getting more centurions - in fact, we need centurions anyway, what kind of legion does not have full officer cadre?
On vote...well. Tough.
I would say we should utilize our refreshed Greek and make local connections.
Also, ability to study under Marius, however little, is absolutely priceless. Man is a genius. So we probably want to try connecting and studying his African campaign.
Paying out of our own pocket for legion stuff should ingratiate legion more to us. As should getting more centurions - in fact, we need centurions anyway, what kind of legion does not have full officer cadre?
- Location
- Europe
You know what's really the worst? Being told that there is an update in a few hours. If it's a good story, you check again and again for the new part.
Well, not quite the worst thing. Getting verbally castrated ranks higher. Damn, that gloryhound still has some bite in him.
I'll go over voting options soon. First, more exp.
Well, not quite the worst thing. Getting verbally castrated ranks higher. Damn, that gloryhound still has some bite in him.
Yeah, I figured Theo would help with Greek. Glad to see that we Romans, even if we war on each other and proscribe each other and kill each other, can still agree on the one true enemy. The sea and boats.
Pursuing intellectual options earns XP for intelligence and education. Who knew.
I know we couldn't have known, but I'm still miffed at that wasted option.
Ah, it reminds me of Bovianum. This reminds me of... home.
Fantastic, a rival.
Any relationship to this guy?
Ah, the great Marius. Anyone wants to places bets on whether he survives this war?
I could try to think of something witty, but I'm having phantom pains by proxy in the lower regions if you catch my drift.
Marius is not to be messed with, unless your name is Sulla.
First test over!!
Nearly eclipsed dad already.
Yeah, not much learnt here.
I'll go over voting options soon. First, more exp.
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I feel like the best play here is to remain cordial Cassianus for now - we have no idea who this guy really is, and immediately trying to undermine him or buddy up with him could not only backfire, but could hurt the integrity of the entire legion. Keep it strictly business, and build up our support among the men.
We should be appeasing the Centurions and the officers is what I'm saying.
We should be appeasing the Centurions and the officers is what I'm saying.
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
For Cassianus I'd say befriend him. We don't need a knife in the back and he shouldn't have cause to hate us yet. He's also, ironically, somewhat predisposed to like/defer to a smooth talking orator such as ourself (given his adopted father). I wouldn't undermine since it could count as undermining Marius' order. As for Overshadowing him, given how Cassianus is
We could also set terms but that'll restrict our powerrgrabbing some.
^^^ that, trying to blatantly overshadow him when he "will not sit idly and be eclipsed" seems liable to result in him actively trying his hardest to outdo us rather than passively doing so.
We could also set terms but that'll restrict our powerrgrabbing some.
We were kinda... wrecking her whole existance? And her people's Heart of Iron trait further makes that an issue.
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...Holy shit Theo gives us Intelligence XP?! We should take him with us everywhere!
...And Theo was also blessed by the gods, just like us -- he has the Gift of Hermes.
Okay, 'Seafaring' just took on new level of importance: it's not just understanding how to fight battles on the seas, it's about being able to use our actions while traveling over water, without suffering a huge 'seasick' penalty.
...If not for the -8 Seasick penalty, we would have rolled a 31 and a Resounding Success. I think that'd be our first roll over 30 in the entire quest...
Okay, I didn't realize our slim our odds were -- that DC 18 was always going to be insanely tough to beat. Even with our +8 bonus, we had at best a 50% chance of success. This affects our choices for Personal Actions this turn, since Asiaticus is going to be just as tough a nut to crack (if not tougher due to his 'seething with resentment') while seeking out Marius will be even harder to research success (most likely a harsher DC given his extra importance, he distrusts us due to our relationship with Sertorius, I doubt we'd get a bonus for 'Old Blood', and he's not an Orator... we're never going to succeed at that action!)
Yikes. That wasn't even close.
This is probably the most significant paragraph of the whole chapter, given how much importance Cassianus will have in the immediate future. He's a novus homo -- so, unlike us, he comes from the common stock -- but was elevated by a frickin' consul of Rome as his son and heir. He effectively has the benefit of both backgrounds: he can relate to the common soldier, but he's welcomed among the elite because of Asiaticus.
This whole conversation was hilarious, and remarkably revealing: I didn't realize just how splintered the Marian sect was, and how much distrust there was between Marius and his biggest 'supporters'. Marius seems to hate Cinna just as profoundly as he hates Sulla... this does not bode well for the Marian cause. Or perhaps it should give us hope, for if Marius wins and then dies (given his ill health, more likely than not), there will be a fair bit of chaos within the Roman political landscape. And, as we all know: "chaos ish a laddah".
Also an incredibly important passage for what it reveals about Cassianus. "The young man seems quite confident for someone who has just seen his patron -- the source of his influence in Rome -- taken apart and disregarded in the space of minutes." This should be a BIG HUGE NEON RED WARNING LIGHT for us. Cassianus is transparently a political creature: born to the common man, flattered his way to become the son of a consul of Rome, possessing such self-confidence that when his patron is shredded to pieces in front of him by the most powerful man in the known world, he doesn't skip a beat. That's... that's actually really intimidating, is what it is. We have the loyalty of the legion for the moment, but Cassianus is precisely the sort of person who could take that away from us. We must tread very carefully here.
'Overshadow' is obviously the riskiest option here, and given Cassianus' self-confidence and charisma, I'd really worry whether we'd be able to pull it off. 'Undermine' is a bit more underhanded, and possibly more likely to succeed (it relies on us exploiting our existing relationships with the men) but our Intrigue and Subterfuge stats aren't spectacular, so I'm not confident in that choice at all. 'Connect' has the biggest upside: Cassianus is a potentially major rival, and developing a friendship could ensure we work together, here and in the future. However, it's possible Cassianus just won't be interested, in which case we'll start off on our back foot as he tries to steal the loyalty of our men. 'Make Terms' is probably the most neutral outcome -- neither good nor bad, just enough to ensure any personal rivalry doesn't negatively affect the performance of the legion.
I have no idea which of these options I prefer.
Okay, big responsibility, time to shine. Not that any option we don't pick, Cassanius will; we should keep our eye not only on what benefits the legion, or what benefits us, but also what options Cassanius could use to shore us his support among our men. Even if those options don't improve our position, denying them to Cassanius may prove necessary.
Straightforward: make sure the men are ready to win a battle. It's important, and might help us improve our own martial abilities, but I'm not sure either we or Cassanius could use it to develop ties to the legion.
This one is absolutely, unequivocally locked. Way too important to leave to the other guy.
Serve as the face of justice for the legion, and fulfill our primary duty as broad-striped tribune. I'm fairly inclined to pick this one.
Our scores for Stewardship/Administration aren't the greatest -- if we pick this option and fail, it'd be much worse for us than if Cassanius does this successfully. I'm inclined to skip this one.
Huge expense for little return -- our equipment looks less pristine, but it's still usable, and paying out of pocket to equip an entire legion would absolutely break the bank.
This is important, but would probably make us less popular. As long as someone (cough Cassanius) is taking care of it, we should be fine skipping it.
...This could be important, not just for ensuring the legion fights well together, but for denying to Cassanius the opportunity to shore up his support among the men. It would also be an effective test-run for our effort to tread the fine line between populares and optimates. This has my vote for our third action.
...Also important, but definitely something to leave to the other guy.
...If we had a fourth action, I'd pick this, but I don't think it's important at this stage (we should wait until we're actually preparing for battle) and we already had enough religious 'cred' thanks to our Cult of Mars that we should be fine.
Pretty sure everyone knows my vote, and why. (Cicero!)
Calm before the storm. Right. That's not intimidating at all.
...Nice, but low priority at this point.
That DC 18 was killer, and I'm pretty sure our odds will be even worse this round given what just happened with Marius. Plus, as remarkable as it is say this about a consul of Rome, but he's basically a non-entity at this point. Hard pass.
This one has huge upside (it's frickin' Marius!) but equally huge downside (if Sulla wins, we do not want to be strongly associated with Marius). More importantly, I'd expect the DC would be ludicrously high, so our odds of actually getting Marius to like us is really slim. Probable pass.
...I'm somewhat inclined to skip this, for the same reasons as before (our Intrigue and Suberfuge scores aren't high enough to check our Cassanius' faction without his noticing) but we have basically no information about Cassanius, and this is one of the only ways we have of gathering information. We should seriously consider this one.
Big upside, as far as securing the loyalty of the men, but there's a potential downside of being too attached to the Marian faction if Sulla does win.
As we saw with the Seasick penalty this round, we really need to pick this, if only to ensure we're able to get use out of our future rounds traveling by sea.
We get a huge bonus thanks to Theo, and this is why we brought him with us. I say yes.
I'm pretty sure our bonus from Theo would also apply to this, and it will be directly useful in our fight against Mithradites. I say yes.
Useful for the 'end boss', but I'm not sure it's a high priority at this early stage.
...From a meta-gaming perspective, getting another prophecy could prove very useful. From an in-character perspective, we're pretty conscientious about consulting the will of the gods on each step of our path. I say we go for it!
I have no idea. Absolutely no idea. If we do pick any of the above, we may need to pick this just to ensure we succeed. If we roll the dice on friendship with Cassanius, this won't be necessary, but still...
Huh. All three of these options seem like one-time-only opportunities, but I have no idea which of them would be useful for us down the road. Any suggestions? We may want to replace one or more 'study' action with these, given how rare such opportunities are.
If we're going to ingratiate ourselves with Marius, we should definitely pick this to pave the way. Even if we don't, it'd still be useful, to give us a better understanding of our new commander, so we understand his strategies and the thinking behind the orders he gives us. This action is an excellent opportunity to become a more effective subordinate, and for that reason alone, I vote yes.
- Location
- Earth
I'm quite partial towards Connect, after all why make enemies when you can make friends? If we succeed there's the potential to create a capable political ally for the future.
The only point of concern I would say is Cassianus character. To be blunt we don't know much about him, but he was surprisingly confident for man who's patron was torn a new one in front of him. I'd say that marks him as a man of either remarkable arrogance or ambition, both could be troublesome. We don't want to invite a snake into our circle.
If he as surmised (a snake) then we can't exactly trust him to hold to terms of an agreement either, so it may be worth taking another course of action. Or going all-in with our oration skill to woo over our newest rival.
Also
The only point of concern I would say is Cassianus character. To be blunt we don't know much about him, but he was surprisingly confident for man who's patron was torn a new one in front of him. I'd say that marks him as a man of either remarkable arrogance or ambition, both could be troublesome. We don't want to invite a snake into our circle.
If he as surmised (a snake) then we can't exactly trust him to hold to terms of an agreement either, so it may be worth taking another course of action. Or going all-in with our oration skill to woo over our newest rival.
Also
Que "Caligula."
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- Location
- USA
That sea sickness penalty was crippling. When I get a good chance for a break I'll try to phone post an Omakes about getting Roman forces ready for naval warfare and us becoming the best Roman at naval warfare*
I'm liking the idea of being the best Roman at naval warfare, and getting more names in circulation. The tax collectors are untouchable for us, but our successor might be able to chip away at them.
*Step 1 -- train men to not get sea sick
Step 2 -- get a lot of ships
Step 3 -- ram into the other guys and beat them for their ships
Step 4 -- realize you failed at step 1
Step 5 -- get Greeks to do it all for you and act like that was the plan all along
Jokes aside, even though it's a low bar to clear, it'll still take some effort to do so
I'm liking the idea of being the best Roman at naval warfare, and getting more names in circulation. The tax collectors are untouchable for us, but our successor might be able to chip away at them.
*Step 1 -- train men to not get sea sick
Step 2 -- get a lot of ships
Step 3 -- ram into the other guys and beat them for their ships
Step 4 -- realize you failed at step 1
Step 5 -- get Greeks to do it all for you and act like that was the plan all along
Jokes aside, even though it's a low bar to clear, it'll still take some effort to do so
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Thus assembled is a template of the action combo that I think is ideal for the strongest of terms.
[]Plan Rough Template
-[] Make Terms: You sit down with your new compatriot and hash out the details of your new positions -- who will do what, where, and when, and who will be command of what and where.
-[] Promote Centurions: A few centurions and lower-ranking officers left the legion in Rome, their service having ended. Several soldiers who served with distinction during the Samnite campaign may well stand to replace them. Men you raise up may be loyal to you in the future.
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword: The men often have simple issues, complaints, or grievances which they wish to address. As broad-striped tribune, it is your duty to see to these. One afternoon, you set up a table in the middle of the worn palace and invite men to come air their grievances before you, and perhaps even raise a case against a fellow soldier.
-[] Brothers in Arms: You strive to mend the frayed relations between the patrician cavalry and the plebian legionnaires, which have grown worse over time.
-[] The Scipians: Unlike Sertorius, who traveled with a single slave, Scipio has brought along a veritable entourage of slaves, clients, friends, and cronies. These Scipians are largely plebian men of all stripes, and you attempt to integrate yourselves with them in order to learn something more of their new master, Cassianus, who seems to have become a focal point for them -- a novus homo who has risen from their ranks to lead a legion.
-[] The Consul: You attempt to strike up a conversation with the disgraced consul, Scipio Asiaticus. Confined to his rooms by Marius and publicly humiliated in front of his own men, he sits and stews in silent rage in the halls of the Bithynian kings.
-[] The Cult: You call together the cult of Mars, hoping to influence the officers and tribunes within towards your viewpoint on the new tribune. (Need to pick either Undermine, Overshadow, or Make Terms above.)
Promote centurions gives us a new foothold, Brothers in Arms reinforces our old role of mediator, and A Law Beyond The Sword preserves our status as camp lawman. We leave the repairs to him because we are not very good at it, and the "buy the men new weapons out of pocket" because he either can't do anything here if Asiaticus is unhelpful, or if his "Consul" is helpful he can outbribe us by miles.
We meet with the scipians to get a better personal view of their new leader
We meet with the consul to see if he IS gonna fling money at the legion through his adopted son, and leave that role to him in negotiation if it is gonna happen. If we can persuade him to help out, i'd call it worth it honestly, opening negotiation with a carrot we have given him.
We meet with the cult to get a bit more punching power.
[]Plan Rough Template
-[] Make Terms: You sit down with your new compatriot and hash out the details of your new positions -- who will do what, where, and when, and who will be command of what and where.
-[] Promote Centurions: A few centurions and lower-ranking officers left the legion in Rome, their service having ended. Several soldiers who served with distinction during the Samnite campaign may well stand to replace them. Men you raise up may be loyal to you in the future.
-[] A Law Beyond The Sword: The men often have simple issues, complaints, or grievances which they wish to address. As broad-striped tribune, it is your duty to see to these. One afternoon, you set up a table in the middle of the worn palace and invite men to come air their grievances before you, and perhaps even raise a case against a fellow soldier.
-[] Brothers in Arms: You strive to mend the frayed relations between the patrician cavalry and the plebian legionnaires, which have grown worse over time.
-[] The Scipians: Unlike Sertorius, who traveled with a single slave, Scipio has brought along a veritable entourage of slaves, clients, friends, and cronies. These Scipians are largely plebian men of all stripes, and you attempt to integrate yourselves with them in order to learn something more of their new master, Cassianus, who seems to have become a focal point for them -- a novus homo who has risen from their ranks to lead a legion.
-[] The Consul: You attempt to strike up a conversation with the disgraced consul, Scipio Asiaticus. Confined to his rooms by Marius and publicly humiliated in front of his own men, he sits and stews in silent rage in the halls of the Bithynian kings.
-[] The Cult: You call together the cult of Mars, hoping to influence the officers and tribunes within towards your viewpoint on the new tribune. (Need to pick either Undermine, Overshadow, or Make Terms above.)
Promote centurions gives us a new foothold, Brothers in Arms reinforces our old role of mediator, and A Law Beyond The Sword preserves our status as camp lawman. We leave the repairs to him because we are not very good at it, and the "buy the men new weapons out of pocket" because he either can't do anything here if Asiaticus is unhelpful, or if his "Consul" is helpful he can outbribe us by miles.
We meet with the scipians to get a better personal view of their new leader
We meet with the consul to see if he IS gonna fling money at the legion through his adopted son, and leave that role to him in negotiation if it is gonna happen. If we can persuade him to help out, i'd call it worth it honestly, opening negotiation with a carrot we have given him.
We meet with the cult to get a bit more punching power.
Promoting Centurions is an obvious lock in. We just had a campaign, we know who excelled, we'll promote them, they'll like us and the legion will be functioning better. I don't see why we wouldn't choose it.
Other than that, there's a lot of choices for our duties. But personally, I think we should choose Brothers in Arms, to ensure there isn't any breaking lines in the legion that has two commanders already, and then maybe A Law Beyond The Sword - it is our duty still, so doing it would make us look good, and it would still endear us to the men. Through perhaps an Augury should be an order?
As for our joint command, I think the correct choice here is Make Terms, backed up by the pressure of the Cult - with a good roll, we might very well leave Cassianus important duties that would nevertheless not make the legion love him, like Justice Beyond The Walls and Maintenance. Those terms could also be later revisited, should we connect with him more or desire to undermine him.
A lot of Personal options, but beyond the Cult, I think it's also important to get a couple of Study actions there, perhaps Res Publica and Marian campaign. For the last three, perhaps social actions in Bithynia, or concentrating even more on Greeks and their cities.
Other than that, there's a lot of choices for our duties. But personally, I think we should choose Brothers in Arms, to ensure there isn't any breaking lines in the legion that has two commanders already, and then maybe A Law Beyond The Sword - it is our duty still, so doing it would make us look good, and it would still endear us to the men. Through perhaps an Augury should be an order?
As for our joint command, I think the correct choice here is Make Terms, backed up by the pressure of the Cult - with a good roll, we might very well leave Cassianus important duties that would nevertheless not make the legion love him, like Justice Beyond The Walls and Maintenance. Those terms could also be later revisited, should we connect with him more or desire to undermine him.
A lot of Personal options, but beyond the Cult, I think it's also important to get a couple of Study actions there, perhaps Res Publica and Marian campaign. For the last three, perhaps social actions in Bithynia, or concentrating even more on Greeks and their cities.
That's a bit of an overreaction there - we don't know Cassianus' thoughts, so assuming that he's a "transparently political creature" based off of him not embarrassing himself in front of Marius is a big jump. Seems to me more like he's simply outwardly portraying confidence in front of Marius to make a good impression, like almost anybody in his position would try to do.
I agree with pretty much everything here, seems like a good base for a plan.
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- Location
- Europe
Oh, looks like we are now better known in Rome.
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
Since this is like a decade too early for Cleopatra to be born, I think it's this Ptolemy
en.wikipedia.org
Ptolemy IX Soter - Wikipedia
I assume he's a political creature, not because he showed confidence, but because he didn't skip a beat. At least we had a few moments to recover while Cassanius introduced himself, but Cassanius had essentially no time between "my adoptive father, my patron, the Consul of Rome, just lost everything in the span of thirty seconds" and "okay, let's make a good impression."
That's why Marius comments on Cassanius being a flatterer -- it's not the words he said, it's that Cassanius tried to make a good impression despite losing his patron. Cassanius managed able to 'stick the landing' despite everything that had just happened, and that by itself is absurdly impressive.