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Remember [FSN/FZ] - Four Heavenly Threads

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It could also be that Kiritsugu is trying to conceal that Archer scares him by being so unpredictable.
 
Cleared up. Iri was the one that announced the CG status.

I never meant for Saber to overhear it in the forest as she was busy being attacked on all sides by squiddies, but so many people assumed she'd hear it I figured I'd get the information into Team Saber's hands ASAP anyway.

Regarding the discussion in-fic:

Characters can have opinions, and those opinions can be wrong. Kiritsugu has little emotion when he's at work, but you could say he has a bit of professional contempt for those who would spare his life on the field of battle. It's a huge tactical blunder from his perspective, at least. He can't predict Archer, and he's -scared- of Kotomine. Half the issue with characterization is we never really see Kiri off balance all grown up. I am sort of flying by the seat of my pants here, I admit. He doesn't get trolled often.

There are a handful of things left that can go off like canon before the butterflies overwhelm everything. Rin's adventure and Kariya's arrival at that scene, Team Rider showing up at Caster's place, and Caster going full Cthulhu when he realizes he's been stripped of other options. As I run out of retread, I switch gears and have to start inflating the narrative. As that happens, I'll probably start getting more disagreements flung my way. It's inevitable.
 
NeoSeether said:
Addendum: Winged Knight, while that is factually true, it is also an incomplete analysis; it makes the same dangerous assumptions as Kiritsugu's (as in, somehow dismissing Archer's near-identical-to-Kiritsugu's-own mindset in combat.)
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Oh, certainly. If I were fighting Archer and knew what I knew I wouldn't underestimate him. In fact, I'd try to force him into situations where his relatively weaker stats would be at the forefront and he had less opportunity to be clever. I was merely stating that the idea that Archer's been playing with smoke and mirrors to confuse his enemies and make himself look stronger than he actually is is accurate, because that's what he has to do to survive in fights where people are throwing truly ludicrous amounts of power around. The analysis was never supposed to be an exhaustive explanation of Archer's combat ability.
 
Liam-don said:
No, he really can't. Sparks Liner high is yet again a case of plot working in Shirou's favor. The only reason his K&B combo worked is because Alter is considerably slower and has her senses dulled compared to Saber at her prime. Basically, she was gimped just so she could be overcome by this attack.
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Aren't Agility and Speed different things?
 
I'd just like to point out that if Kiritsugu doesn't start taking hints, he's going to be screwed over even harder than in canon.
 
I sort of think that's what Kirei and Archer have in mind.
 
Ergast said:
Well, I'm glad this fic isn't dead, or in hiatus. The last chapter was good, thats for sure. The fact that both Risei and Tokiomi are the only ones who seem to have a healthy respect for Archer being a CG tells everything, though. As people said, Kiri seems to have drawn the idiot ball this time. CGs not being rival to normal Legendary Souls? I can think of one or two names of CGs (or almost CGs) that can go toe to toe with other legends. Arturia has been named, but... how about Jeanne, by example? Because she is a CG, with a powerful (as in "I win this fight" button powerful) Noble Phantasm and as strong when it comes to stats as Arturia, or almost.
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Jeanne was slated to become a CG, but managed to cheat her way out by becoming a proper HS. This is a documented loophole, one that GL already mentioned in relation to Artie. The only real CG we've seen is Archer.
About Saber vs Archer, in Nasu's words, in ideal conditions for both of them (I supose that means at a certain distance, not close enough for Saber to overwhelm him and not far enough for Archer to overwhelm her), it would come to the will and strenght of the Masters to determine the victor. In this fic, I would give the victory to Archer, as Saber and Kiritsugu doesn't get along at all. In a theoretical Shirou vs Rin... I would give a 50-50 if both of them are going all out. In a normal scenario, Rin would win because Shirou would refuse to let Saber go at full strenght, meaning Archer would win and then would be stoped by Rin.
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In a "fair" Shirou vs Rin, Shirou's Servant will always lose, because he's a crap magus that isn't providing any mana. If you wanted to make it a fair fight, it'd have to be Rin vs Rin.
 
Kyte said:
Jeanne was slated to become a CG, but managed to cheat her way out by becoming a proper HS. This is a documented loophole, one that GL already mentioned in relation to Artie. The only real CG we've seen is Archer.
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Somehow... I don't think Caster's going to like that.
Kyte said:
In a "fair" Shirou vs Rin, Shirou's Servant will always lose, because he's a crap magus that isn't providing any mana. If you wanted to make it a fair fight, it'd have to be Rin vs Rin.
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Or Rin vs Luvia.
 
He did at hercules one time. took seven of his lives if i remember right. I think it was in the fate route. and it impressed everyone cause they had no idea who he was.
 
Before anybody decides to wank Archer based on that fight, I'd like to mention that Archer's great advantage vs Herc is that, even if he's not one of the gifted few with natural-rank A NPs that carry enough power to kill 'zerk multiple times over, he does have a stunning variety of rank-B NPs he can Break to kill Berserker one life at a time. Plus tactics, insight, versatility and couple big hitters of his own.

Just wanna have you guys keep in mind that circumstances are just as important as on-paper stats.
 
Wait... This is a case of an uninjured Archer. And Kiritsugu's underestimating him?

He is officially totally deserving of whatever divine punishment is wrought upon his being by the conclusion of this conflict - TOTALLY deserving.
 
Angelform said:
Kiritsugu is not known for dramatic exaggeration. He would not have died because he still has command seals to block with. Still horrific stupidity on Arturia's part but not quite that dire.
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OOC points aside, I stand by this. If Lancer wanted to, he could have taken off Kiritsugu's head before Kiri ever realized he was there. Command Seal to block with, my foot. You have to perceive a threat before you can save yourself.

I already made my statement on stations of canon in my previous post.

Regarding Kayneth's timing, I guess I will just spell it out: It is not important. It will not matter. I am not going to waste my limited time to write this fic regurgitating scenes with miniscule differences that have no bearing on the greater plot. The assumption has always been, if I don't focus on a canon scene, it went down like canon. If I was reading this, and read the details you are talking about, I would then naturally assume the author included those details for a reason and that the fact that they are different from canon was significant. Once it became apparent that the end was the same, I'd be mildly annoyed as a reader that those words could have been spent on something else fresh, new, interesting, or relevant.
 
John117xCortana said:
What would happen if Saber sees Archer trace Caliburn ?
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Arch-Magos Winter said:
Nothing good.
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Archer: *Traces Caliburn* So what now, Saber? I've got your sword and there's nothing you can URK!!!!!!
Saber: *Has him by the throat, shaking him* Where did you get that?!
Archer: Saber... Air...
Saber: Knave, I will cut you! Answer me!
 
if his smile in ghostface's was whole instead of half, it would qualify.

Unfortunately, Archer never actually laughs in canon that I am aware of. Smirking confidence is much more his natural style. Laughing would only serve him as a specific bluff or taunt if needed.
 
Golden Lark said:
if his smile in ghostface's was whole instead of half, it would qualify.

Unfortunately, Archer never actually laughs in canon that I am aware of. Smirking confidence is much more his natural style. Laughing would only serve him as a specific bluff or taunt if needed.
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Have you checked Carnival Phantasm for that?
 
Maybe something from the anime (or UBW movie) from one of the times Archer fights Lancer?

Maybe during the "(un?)fortunately, I have no pride..." comment while fighting Lancer.
 
Garlak said:
Maybe something from the anime (or UBW movie) from one of the times Archer fights Lancer?

Maybe during the "(un?)fortunately, I have no pride..." comment while fighting Lancer.
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Anybody got a video of this?
 
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