Recursive Cultivation (Original Xianxia Cosmology)

Ah, you know, I'm surprised that it doesn't seem to have come up explicitly, but how does the actual 'immortality' bit of being an Immortal play out? There doesn't seem to be any inherent life extension tied to cultivation, but I guess I'm assuming that's just a function of having a Dantian (your ageless phylactery), and eventually an Energy Body (your custom-spec disposable outer self).
 
Something I find mildly annoying about this system is that clever tactics only work on the ground floor. Cool, unique ways of setting up an Inner World are inherently abandoned the moment you Ascend, even if that method is what allowed you to be Willful enough to do so. And then you're stuck with whatever world setup the guy who lost that contest had. Sure you can dick around with Laws but unless you want to cripple yourself and start over, you're stuck with the shape and inhabitants.
Although I've put a decent emphasis on Ascension in my writeup because it is tied pretty heavily to the setting's metaphysics, it should be noted that in actually most people spend their entire lives on the World they were born in. It is a numbers game; out of everyone currently in a given World plus that World's current God, exactly one individual or merged individual can be the world's God in a year, or a decade, or a century.

So on one hand, you are right; any direct advantage you may have from cultivating your Inner World goes away once you ascend. But on the other hand, most like you will NEVER Ascend, so what you build is what you've got.

Furthermore, it is incorrect to say that you lose the entirety of your gains upon Ascension. Law Comprehension in particular is kept, as is insight into what sorts of things work - so the tools you've built and the lessons you've learnt stay with you for use on a new Inner World. Furthermore, your previous Dantian is now recursively nested in your new Dantian, and while the gains from such a thing a lesser, they are still non-negligible.

Ah, you know, I'm surprised that it doesn't seem to have come up explicitly, but how does the actual 'immortality' bit of being an Immortal play out? There doesn't seem to be any inherent life extension tied to cultivation, but I guess I'm assuming that's just a function of having a Dantian (your ageless phylactery), and eventually an Energy Body (your custom-spec disposable outer self).
Quite right. Will doesn't inherently degrade, and nor does a Dantian, which means that once you form a Dantian old age and disease aren't really issues any more.

There are of course caveats. For one thing, a Dantian alone doesn't offer any structures for drawing in or shaping Qi, so you will want to have either a biological or an Energy Body; the alternative leaves you unable to act in the Outer World. Learning to make an Energy Body isn't hard, but it does take Qi - and if you have no Qi and no Energy Body you are pretty screwed, and it is not a good way to go. That is not to say this happens often, but it still deserves a mention. Running completely out of energy without a way to get more is bad.

The bigger caveat is that just because you don't age and can remake your body when you want doesn't mean you can't die. Someone just needs to hit you where it hurts - the Dantian. Technically, the Dantian is indestructible from the outside, but any damage to it translates directly into damage to the Will holding that Dantian's Throne - and enough Will damage will kill you.

Also, sometimes there will be Heavenly Tribulation set up to strike cultivators every 100/250/1000 years or whatnot, just to keep the ecosystem healthy. It should be noted that Heavenly Tribulation is especially effective at damaging Wills directly - and as mentioned earlier, enough Will damage kills you.

ALSO, sometimes the very world you are in dies, and takes you with it. There are ways to save a dying World, but those depend on the resources and people that that World can draw on, and sometimes it is not enough. Survivorship bias does mean that type of end isn't one doesn't consider often, but in a setting where every cultivator is a World, it is a fact that many Worlds have lifetimes which are brutish and short, and they take all their inhabitants with them.


...and now I'm bummed out about the amount of mass death in my imaginary setting. :(
 
...Is it possible for a Cultivator to jump into an unattended Dantain without ending up it's God?
No. A Dantian can only be claimed from the inside, so either you form it around your Will and it is yours or you ascend as one of it's inhabitants. Furthermore, the only form of travel allowed between worlds is forming a Dantian and Ascending, so jumping down another world isn't in the cards.


I actually considered a form of World-travel for this setting at some point in its development, but decided on what I have now as a simpler and more elegant approach, even if it does rule out a number of possibilities.
 
How does Qi scale work anyway? Like, the god of a world has access to all the Qi in that would and can spend it and respire more from the surroundings. Does that mean that every inner world just has orders of magnitude less Qi than the world above it or is 1 unit of world 1's Qi worth 100 units of world 2 because it's physically bigger?
 
How does Qi scale work anyway? Like, the god of a world has access to all the Qi in that would and can spend it and respire more from the surroundings. Does that mean that every inner world just has orders of magnitude less Qi than the world above it or is 1 unit of world 1's Qi worth 100 units of world 2 because it's physically bigger?
...Damn, that is a really good idea. I wish I had thought of it when I started building; that could made the startup stages of cultivation much faster. But no, I'm afraid that is not part of the design; 1 unit of Qi is 1 unit of Qi no matter where it is.

Also of note: God doesn't have access to all the Qi in their World; they just get to use the Heavens as a massive pump/magnet. So the Qi itself doesn't just disappear out of the Inner World wherever it is; it takes time to get drawn up to the Heavens, and depending on what is in the way it might not be able to get there at all.
 
ALSO, sometimes the very world you are in dies, and takes you with it. There are ways to save a dying World, but those depend on the resources and people that that World can draw on, and sometimes it is not enough. Survivorship bias does mean that type of end isn't one doesn't consider often, but in a setting where every cultivator is a World, it is a fact that many Worlds have lifetimes which are brutish and short, and they take all their inhabitants with them.


...and now I'm bummed out about the amount of mass death in my imaginary setting. :(
I see now why deliberately killing a cultivator maximises your negative karma.
Infinite genocide is a very bad thing.
 
I see now why deliberately killing a cultivator maximises your negative karma.
Infinite genocide is a very bad thing.
It's not actually that bad I think - a sufficiently-developed World with sufficient sub-worlds to give it Qi in turn should be able to sustain even catastrophic damage pretty much indefinitely. In other words, as long as the cultivator you're murdering is old enough it's not genocide! Assuming there's no way of scaling up how much Qi a damaged dantian spews pretty much indefinitely, and even then that would basically be pointless, deliberate genocide of a bunch of people who not only never did anything to you but are unlikely to ever be able to do anything to you. Also dumb, you just got an infinite Qi source and you wanna screw it up for short-term gains? Don't be a stupid, you're immortal. Think long-term.

Edit: I just realized something that pisses me off - all these countless gods are gonna set up so damn much cool stuff with their different inner worlds and comprehensions and chance cultural development and different species, and nobody ever gets to see more than a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of it all. Dammit, can't there be some way of traveling between worlds freely even if it's ludicrously hard? I like thinking of myself as a character in a setting and this is just awful. I wanna see it all, okay!
 
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Qi density
The base unit of Qi density is the GU (Grandmist Unit), which unsurprisingly matches the implied density of Qi out in the Grandmist.

The level of Qi used in the makeup of Reality in a given World is 1 GU with just the Existence Law, 1.1 GU with both the Existence and Recursion Laws, and greater level from there as you stack additional Laws.

Qi is typically found in a gaseous form. gaseous Qi has a "preferred" density of 2.71-3.14 GU, coalescing into clumps of said density when Qi is sparse and spreading out towards a uniform density once it exceeds that value. Neither of those is instantaneous - it is possible to find less dense regions of Qi but only very briefly, and it is possible to find more dense regions that are slowly trying to expand. Note that 3.14 GU is also the density at which Qi existing at the boundary of a World is consumed to expand reality there.

Gaseous Qi can be forced to a density of up to 101,325 - at which point it naturally condenses further into the next state of Qi, Liquid Qi. On the reverse side, liquid Qi that is exposed to an environment with an ambient Qi Density of under 30,000 GU will constantly evaporate, raising the atmospheric Qi Density to at least that level as long as there is Liquid Qi remaining.

Liquid Qi is mostly incompressible and has a roughly constant Qi density: around 299.8 million GU. This means that the condensing of Gaseous Qi reduces it to 1/3000th the volume, or conversely the evaporation of Liquid Qi creates about 10,000x the volume of the Liquid Qi in gas. Of course, this is talking about the maximally condensed gaseous Qi, which itself will expand to 30,000x its size when diffusing further.

The maximum rate at which a Dantian can release Qi is by shooting out streams of Liquid Qi moving at roughly 15% the speed of sound (~115 mph). When using the entire surface of the Dantian, this is enough to release about 30 cubic meters of Liquid Qi per minute - or the equivalent of roughly 3 cubic kilometers of Gaseous Qi after diffusion. At low levels, this is a ludicrous amount of energy that a cultivator wouldn't be able to safely channel, much less shape into Manifestations. At intermediate levels, it is the sort of energy you might need to throw into a serous fights but which you can't freely afford to spend. At high levels, this quantity of energy is freely used, both in fighting and for casual life; from that height, the world truly looks different.
 
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Is Qi an actual substance in this verse, in the sense that it has particles and/or naturally excludes other non-Qi forms of matter from being in the same location as itself? Or is it more like a largely intangible excitation in some fundamental field?
 
Is Qi an actual substance in this verse, in the sense that it has particles and/or naturally excludes other non-Qi forms of matter from being in the same location as itself? Or is it more like a largely intangible excitation in some fundamental field?
Qi doesn't interact directly with physical matter; you can both in the same place and they won't get in each other's way.

...yes. Though it is not going to actually be exact past a couple of decimal points; this is an authorial Easter egg (that you found! congrats!), not a fundamental law of the universe that relates to the nature state of Qi to the ratio of a circle's circumference to its radius.

So does Qi only appear in gaseous or liquid states? Or are other, more exotic states possible?
Well, it can be argued that being part of a Law Manifestation is also a state of Qi, though I don't know if that counts.
I am also not ruling out for specific Laws to also allow Qi to enter exotic states, though I don't have any particulars in mind. But by default, any Qi that isn't in use is either Liquid or Gas, no exotics.

Can it be freely transferred between individuals?
Yes. Qi is homogeneous and universal; every drop of Qi is the same, and equally suitable to all applications and anyone's usage.
 
About how much does Energy Agriculture speed things up by anyway?
 
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The Genesis of Will is thought. Note that "thought" here need not refer to the thinking of biological entities; whenever you have a process that takes some sort of input and produces output in a varied but directed fashion, you have thought. A thundercloud "thinks" when it sends out lighting along a certain path, a forest-fire "thinks" when it spreads in a certain way, and a rock "thinks" when it crumbles in a certain way from erosion.
Is this a consequence of the Law of Life granting thought metaphysical significance?

This also seems to allow influencing people by running lots of directed computations around them, though perhaps the effect is too small to matter in normal cases. Alternatively, you could use it on yourself as an external aid to Will cultivation.
But you can't copy such an AI. You can copy the starting conditions in a way that reliably produces sapience, but you can't copy the sense of self that the AI would have. Nor could you copy their Law Comprehension (since it is tied to Will, not physical memory). Furthermore, their nature as machines won't provide much of an increase in Law Comprehension, because the Will is the one doing the comprehension and the physical body plays a supporting role at best.
What is Law Comprehension, exactly? It's clearly not just information like the name implies, since you don't seem to be able to transfer it outside of a Will, but it must feel from the inside like understanding out or it wouldn't be called that.
At high levels, this quantity of energy is freely used, both in fighting and for casual life; from that height, the world truly looks different.
At that point you've reached the limits of Qi cultivation, right? Is there a corresponding limit to Will or Law cultivation?
 
Anyway, it occurs to me that much of the reason it takes so long to start up significant Energy Cultivation is because at the start a new Cultivator is frantically scraping up whatever loose Qi they can find, trying to get enough habitable volume for Cultivating life to take hold.

Logically, if a new Cultivator happened to receive a large windfall of Qi, this phase could be skipped. The most likely source of such would be to get a Qi donation from an already established Cultivator who's willing to sponsor new people. Other plausible occurrences include visiting a Qi fountain, or happening upon someone's emergency stash of Pseudo-Dantians that they made to restart their Energy Cultivation in a hurry.

It's also theoretically plausible to accumulate a stockpile of Qi to jumpstart a proper Dantian by going through the Core -> Dissipate cycle a number of times, but this seems like a rather tempermental process which would be prone to interruptions and Qi leakage.

Of course, once there's enough habitable volume you're stuck waiting until someone inside your Dantian starts Cultivating. Fortunately there's already a way to speed that up by a significant amount of time thanks to Energy Agriculture. After all, Plant Cultivators do tend to start Cultivating much sooner and more numerously than human ones do; couple that with the Core -> Dissipate cycle meaning you don't need to wait as long to start getting returns from these Cultivators, and you're in business.

So, given these factors, I view it as plausible that at least the middle levels of Cultivation could be reached within a few decades if someone really put their all behind it and got a boost along the way. If someone was theoretically jump-started by an already established Cultivator the day of their birth (not likely, I know), and they immediately went for Energy Agriculture, they could conceivably have enough Qi generation to start pumping Liquid Qi every once in a while by age 40.
 
At that point you've reached the limits of Qi cultivation, right? Is there a corresponding limit to Will or Law cultivation?
I don't see why that would be the limit of Qi cultivation. You'd have limited throughput but you could still increase your total output. Plus, we know that you can use space fuckery to bypass the cap on throughput.
 
Is this a consequence of the Law of Life granting thought metaphysical significance?
No. I thought of doing that and it is a reasonable take, but that would make Life a Fundamental Law, which I wanted to avoid. Creation of Will from Thought is supported by the Recursion Law.

What is Law Comprehension, exactly? It's clearly not just information like the name implies, since you don't seem to be able to transfer it outside of a Will, but it must feel from the inside like understanding out or it wouldn't be called that.
It is a supernatural form of tacit knowledge/skill. If it helps, you can also think of it as resonance/entanglement between a Will and the compehended Laws; closer entanglement means an easier and more flexible ability to draw on the Laws.

At that point you've reached the limits of Qi cultivation, right? Is there a corresponding limit to Will or Law cultivation?
Well, not quite the limit; you might still want more energy generation for stuff going on in your Inner World. But yes, mostly at that point you are done with that form of cultivation.

Will cultivation has no cap, but is subject to steeply deminishing returns at a certain level. Basically progress is logoritmic, so you need to put exponentially more work into each successive unit of improvement.

Law Cultivation doesn't seem to have a cap, though ability to prove requires understanding and the depths of Laws become too alien to understand without changing your Will in possibly-fundamental ways.
 
I know people can use spatial fuckery to collapse Dantians faster but do people at the "cap" of Qi cultivation ever use it to allow for even more massive expenditures of energy?
 
Plus, we know that you can use space fuckery to bypass the cap on throughput.
...I did say that. But, uh, I'm going to have to eat those words. So consider that officially retconned. Apologies; I'll try not to make it a habit.

I know people can use spatial fuckery to collapse Dantians faster but do people at the "cap" of Qi cultivation ever use it to allow for even more massive expenditures of energy?
That is what made the original design a problem. I like the way a limited bandwidth for a dantian shapes the setting; it makes higher levels of cultivation different from the lower levels in a new and interesting way.

Anyway, it occurs to me that much of the reason it takes so long to start up significant Energy Cultivation is because at the start a new Cultivator is frantically scraping up whatever loose Qi they can find, trying to get enough habitable volume for Cultivating life to take hold.
Yeah. Basically, early Inner World cultivation is sharply limited by available energy. Normally you get through this stage by just drawing in energy from the Outer World and continuing to do that for a long time until your Inner World is self-sufficient - but if you have enough energy available you can compress compress the time involved by orders of magnitude.


It's also theoretically plausible to accumulate a stockpile of Qi to jumpstart a proper Dantian by going through the Core -> Dissipate cycle a number of times, but this seems like a rather tempermental process which would be prone to interruptions and Qi leakage.
The normal way you stockpile Qi is by drawing it in from the environment. Growing your own Qi using the Dissipation cycle is extraordinarily rare; you really don't see that in normal setups.

Of course, once there's enough habitable volume you're stuck waiting until someone inside your Dantian starts Cultivating.
Indeed. It doesn't take that long, but we are still talking at least 5-10 years for people to start cultivating, and that timer only starts once you have people in the first place.
 
So about how common is it for established Cultivators to provide jump start services to new Cultivators anyway? Clearly it's something that happens on at least a semi-regular basis, and it seems a decent way to acquire allies of notable power a few years down the road.
 
So about how common is it for established Cultivators to provide jump start services to new Cultivators anyway? Clearly it's something that happens on at least a semi-regular basis, and it seems a decent way to acquire allies of notable power a few years down the road.
Broadly speaking, yes.

If you think about it, any Cultivator who has Cultivators in their Inner World already functionally nurtures those inner denizens with their own gathered Qi. They plan to get that Qi back eventually, of course - but if they are willing to make an investment in an inner denizen for the purpose of getting energy back, it is sensible to make the same investment in a junior to empower an ally. Though on the other hand most such prospective allies don't survive long enough to become actual allies, so you only see meaningful investments in people who are either emotionally important (e.g. family) or who are unusual talents.

Also keep in mind that the word "established" here carries a lot of weight. The first stretch of cultivation is an absolute slog; you just draw in more and more energy, without seeing much in the way of improvement for a long time. Getting to the point where you have enough qi for you inner denizens to start forming their own Inner Worlds and cultivating seriously takes a while.
 
...I did say that. But, uh, I'm going to have to eat those words. So consider that officially retconned. Apologies; I'll try not to make it a habit.
That does make god death a lot more survivable then. At least for worlds with high power owners.
Also, are divine artifacts and the like possible or is interaction too limited for that?
Hmm... I'm trying to calculate how long it would take for Energy Agriculturalists to reach maximum throughput. We know that a cultivator dissipating their Dantian is approximately a 10x increase using only the fundamental laws. Unfortunately without a volume measurement for a GU, I can't calculate how many units of energy you would need. We can get output per diem by dividing population by the average number of days they cultivate before dissipating but I don't know the average rate of expansion so I can't figure out the units themselves either.
 
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