Recursive Cultivation (Original Xianxia Cosmology)

Of course, for most cultivators such a thing is a distant dream. "Oh no; an Inner World large and prosperous enough that it produces more Qi than even the World's expansion can't keep up. Whatever shall I do?" Since a Dantian is usually formed at the beginning of the Cultivation path, it is a question of theoretical foundation for who-knows-how-many-levels up, so most people don't even bother to worry about it. And they aren't wrong; after all, the vast vast majority of cultivators never make it to a point where such a thing would matter.
What does happen when Qi density is high enough that it would normally lead to world expansion, but the edges of the world are too far away for it to get there in a reasonable amount of time?
(and of course, once a cultivator uses a different topology, so does most of their inner world as well)
It seems like you'd generally expect worlds to get better designed as you go down, because each layer has their God's work to build on and most of them won't go for anything worse.
and since you also need the Cultivation Law to digest Grandmist at all, you can't break even either.
What does a world look like when God has only learned the Existence law? Just a 0-dimensional point?

Is there a way for God to incentivize people to treat their inner worlds well, or is it generally not possible to see 2 layers down like that?
 
What does happen when Qi density is high enough that it would normally lead to world expansion, but the edges of the world are too far away for it to get there in a reasonable amount of time?
This really needs a Threadmark to explain properly, but the short answer is that Qi will just keep building up, until it can't build up any more. I'll try to post about this in considerably more detail tomorrow, if I have time.

It seems like you'd generally expect worlds to get better designed as you go down, because each layer has their God's work to build on and most of them won't go for anything worse.
It is not that cut-and-try. World-building is a long-term project, so success and failure might not be distinguishable for a looong time - and since World-shapes are hard to change once you get started, there is no good way to improve on what you have once you know the result. Of course nobody sets out to make a worse setup than one they've seen already, but without perfect knowledge that ends up happening as often as not.

What does a world look like when God has only learned the Existence law? Just a 0-dimensional point?
Learning is irrelevant. A World comes into existence when a Cultivator Manifests the Existence Law internally with a sufficient supply of Qi; at that time, the Inner World is formed... and tiny. It will always contain connected pieces of Heaven and Firmament both, as well as an area of existence corresponding to the amount of Qi initially used by the Cultivator; from there, getting further requires Manifesting the Cultivation Law internally so that the Inner World can start to expand and then adding enough Qi for the expansion to keep happening.

In practice, when forming the Plane shape at least, what you start out as is a disk of Heaven and a protruding "leg" of Firmament, placed around the center-top of what will be the central pillar once the world has filled out enough to make things recognizable.
 
So, I think I've figured out another cheat for exponential growth, this one fully supported by all the rules you've laid out, particularly this post:
If it makes you feel better, this system also absolutely supports cultivation in a genocide free manner. For example, there is a cultivation style where you set up the Law of Karma in you inner world. And it is actually good karma to protect young cultivators and mortals. It is also extremely good Karma to dissipate your cultivation after the Core Formation stage. So there are cultivators who form their core, cultivate a Qi a bunch, then dissipate their own Energy cultivation. As long as they haven't discarded their physical body, they can keep doing this - and they can then reform the Core almost immediately since they keep their Law comprehension and much of their Will cultivation. In return, they and their sect have reliably great luck. This scheme doesn't require even individual death at all.
As you've noted, it's fully possible for Cultivators to voluntarily dissipate their own Dantians. You've also noted that Cultivators need to be alive, but you haven't stated any other requirements.

The solution? Use Laws to specify that each and every plant, along with each and every microbe, and each and every fungus within your Dantian is an extremely single-minded unimaginative instinctive Cultivator, heavily optimized for cycling through Core Formation and Dantian dispersal as quickly as possible. Frequencies measured in the kilohertz may well be possible. This turns each and every non-animal organism into a heavily optimized Qi engine capable of processing immense amounts of Grandmist into Qi, thus expanding the Dantian at an exponential rate as new chunks of Reality come into being already containing these Biological Qi Engines.

Unlike the Law of Oscillation this won't result in Desolation buildup, at least nowhere the Cultivator on top cares about, since the mini-Dantians on the second level of creation are being jettisoned almost immediately.

EDIT: As a side note, I'd like to dub this technique Energy Agriculture, since it revolves around making plants do all the hard work.
 
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Congratulations! This approach is fundamentally feasible. There are a number of details which would have to work differently than what you outlined, with a couple presenting serous problems - but the broad approach does work.

Let me go over those details first.
Use Laws to specify that each and every plant, along with each and every microbe, and each and every fungus within your Dantian is an extremely single-minded unimaginative instinctive Cultivator
A Cultivator is someone who uses their Will to create and shape an Inner World. It is axiomatically impossible to have a Cultivator without Will, and a will implies an ego. You might be able to turn up focus and turn down imagination, but at the end of the day the creations HAVE to be sapient; you can't have literal cultivation machines.

You might be able to define the starting conditions, but the way the Will grows, especially once separate from the body, is outside your control. Of course, in practice defining the starting point plus exterior conditions is enough to get most cultivators following the path you've lined up for them; you might not be able to control any individual Will but creating trends is doable enough.

Use Laws to specify that each and every plant, along with each and every microbe, and each and every fungus within your Dantian is an extremely single-minded unimaginative instinctive Cultivator
To do this, you would need to make every plant/microbe/fungus sapient. The Law of Life does allow you to get life-forms which aren't completely bound by normal physics, so it is possible to get even tiny bodies to support fully sapient minds (and therefore generate corresponding Wills), so that part is doable.

If you actually want them to form a Dantian, though, you are going to run into a problem with most of the life you mentioned. A Dantian always has a fixed size - approximately 1.1 inches (2.8cm) in radius, or about 30% bigger than a golf ball. A human cultivator can make space inside their bodies for a such a thing, and then move their Will and Qi there to form a Dantian; a microbe isn't going to be able to pull it off for lack of space. Furthermore, presumably you want your body to keep working even with part of its area displaced, so that means you need more than the ability to physically fit a Dantian; you need to be able to do so without displacing anything critical to life.

Point being, if you can't fit a gold ball inside a creature without killing it, letting that creature cultivate won't actually let it walk the road of cultivation past the core-formation breakthrough. This rules out any microbe and the smaller plants/fungi, though there should still be plenty of the latter two for you to work with.

Use Laws to specify that each and every plant, along with each and every microbe, and each and every fungus within your Dantian is an extremely single-minded unimaginative instinctive Cultivator
Every cultivator is an "instinctive Cultivator"; the Law of Cultivation basically gives beings with Will the ability to sense Laws and the broad steps needed to move forward with beginner cultivation.

However, instinct only covers the ability to sense the Laws; comprehension is up to the individual. You can't give a life form "genetic memory" of Law or the like; at best, you can make a life form whose body inherently uses certain laws, which would make those laws much easier to sense for said life due to the proximity of examples. If your idea is making plants which would be able to form a Dantian as easily as normal plants grow towards the sun, that isn't going to work; the plants would need to improve their comprehension first, and that is not going to be something you can build in.

cycling through Core Formation and Dantian dispersal as quickly as possible. Frequencies measured in the kilohertz may well be possible.
You don't want to do that. This generates no energy; if you create a Dantian and then immediately disperse it, all you get out is what you put in. You haven't actually "digested" any Grandmist at this point, so you haven't actually added any more net energy. To get net energy, you need to Manifest the Recursion law in the Inner World and start sucking down energy to expand it. At that point, every unit of energy you've pulled in to use towards cultivation means more than 1 unit released. (It is actually a pretty large multiplier when you have only the Existence and Recursion laws to support, close to 10x.)

cycling through Core Formation and Dantian dispersal as quickly as possible. Frequencies measured in the kilohertz may well be possible.
Core Formation by a beginner is something that will usually take minutes-to-hours, so you can't go that fast even if you wanted to. Worse, Dantian dispersal is a lot more difficult that you seem to suspect. Basically, the process of Dantian dispersal looks like this:
  1. Prepare a target anchor that you are going to be moving your Will to and which can survive a connection to your Inner World
  2. Perform a Lesser Ascension ritual, expelling your Will from your Dantian and into the prepared Anchor
  3. Destroy the Dantian which used to be your Inner World, releasing the energy within
  4. Spend time recovering from the moderate Will damage that a Lesser Ascension ritual implies (unlike a true Ascension, Lesser Ascension requires a bond between an Inner World and something that is NOT an Inner World, making the connection imperfect; accordingly, the degree to which your Will is transported out is also imperfect)
The last step in particular means that rapid destruction of one's Dantian is not realistic; the Will just can't survive that sort of strain. You have to build in time for recuperation.

The first step could prove a dealbreaker entirely, though fortunately the body itself can act as a passable anchor if significantly reinforced via the Law of Life. Of course, a body is even more different from an Inner World than a pseudo-dantian, which means even greater Will damage and required recovery.

new chunks of Reality come into being already containing these Biological Qi Engines
New Reality coming into existence can't include life (or more precisely, beings with Will), though the seeds for life to emerge can be there.

Unlike the Law of Oscillation this won't result in Desolation buildup, at least nowhere the Cultivator on top cares about, since the mini-Dantians on the second level of creation are being jettisoned almost immediately.
Yup. Nobody really thinks of Desolation in abandoned Worlds; "where do those Desolate Worlds go" is just the dual side of the "where does the Grandmist consumed to make Qi come from" question. Basically, it is an academic question at best.


See next post for how I imagine an Inner World set up for Energy Agriculture could look after the amendments noted above.
 
Cultivation Method: Energy Agriculture
The Law of Life is actively in use in the World, giving plants and fungi metaphysically-reinforced bodies and sapient minds capable of generating Will. Being mostly immobile and somewhat lacking in other senses, such plant life will be well inclined towards meditating on Laws, which means means that they tend to reach Core Formation faster and in greater numbers than humans.

Those plants have a inborn desire to cultivate energy and then use Lesser Ascension to return to their bodies and dissipate said cultivation. The setup of either their bodies or the World itself supports this; perhaps the surge of released Qi is actually a significant part of their reproductive cycle, perhaps this triggers soothing rain in the surroundings, or perhaps there is some other reinforcement method. As a result, the default path for plant cultivators in this world is to settle into a cycle of cultivating energy and then releasing it.

Some "demonic" plant cultivators may decide to progress differently, refusing to disperse their energy cultivation and trying to gather energy and advance their Inner Worlds without giving back to the Outer World. It is recommend for a World to deal with such cultivators somehow, lest they uncontrollably spread and disrupt the functioning of the World's ecosystem. The Law of Karma is particularly well suited for this, though other approaches are also feasible.



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The main strength of this cultivation scripture is superb energy cultivation, allowing the generation of Qi at a meaningfully faster rate than a conventional human-centric world.

The main weakness is that it blocks the path to ascension for the Righteous Path, which encourages defection and means that any cultivator who does manage to Ascend is liable to see the Heavens as an enemy.
 
How flexible is the Law of Karma? Like, obviously you can't make a set of karmic rules that only applies to one person but can Karma work differently for different species?
 
Well yeah but clearly conditionals must apply in some cases. Like how keeping someone locked up is wrong but keeping a criminal locked up is good.
Karma is based on actions, and how it affects the World and others. When you lock up a person, you sow negative karma with them - but for a criminal who themselves had negative karma with others, locking said person up sows positive karma with the victims.

The God setting up the Karma Law has minimal control over how Karma between people works, but they have a great deal of flexibility with how Karma towards the Heavens works; after all, they ARE the Heavens. The rules have to be determined purely by action in the Outer World (you can't punish someone for what they think, or what they do inside of their own Dantian), but beyond that you can do whatever you want, with the normal caveat that the more precise and unusual your setup the greater a grasp of Law is required.



I should note that the Law of Karma alone doesn't have much in the way of enforcement; you should think of it as primarily a way of keeping track of the score, so to speak; not a way to EVEN the score. However, Karma can be easily hooked into other Laws to give it teeth; for example, hooking the Karma Law into the Fire Law can be used to make negative-Karma individuals more flammable.
 
Karma is based on actions, and how it affects the World and others. When you lock up a person, you sow negative karma with them - but for a criminal who themselves had negative karma with others, locking said person up sows positive karma with the victims.

The God setting up the Karma Law has minimal control over how Karma between people works, but they have a great deal of flexibility with how Karma towards the Heavens works; after all, they ARE the Heavens. The rules have to be determined purely by action in the Outer World (you can't punish someone for what they think, or what they do inside of their own Dantian), but beyond that you can do whatever you want, with the normal caveat that the more precise and unusual your setup the greater a grasp of Law is required.



I should note that the Law of Karma alone doesn't have much in the way of enforcement; you should think of it as primarily a way of keeping track of the score, so to speak; not a way to EVEN the score. However, Karma can be easily hooked into other Laws to give it teeth; for example, hooking the Karma Law into the Fire Law can be used to make negative-Karma individuals more flammable.
Hmmm... It would probably take a pretty decent understanding of Karma to work out but I think you could theoretically create a karmic caste system. Basically have certain actions sow bad karma but other actions that can only be performed in conjunction with those actions and only with specific abilities sow a greater amount of good karma. This could get you the best of both worlds with Energy Agriculture by allowing a specific species to reach ascension status with karmic incentives to learn diverse Laws and try to align their Will with the Will of Heaven before ascending. And if you forbid the study and use of Life then you still get to avoid genocide, even if it'll take a bit longer for them to ascend without achieving godhood. On the other hand, since these dudes are just plants, they probably won't be going around murdering each other so the percentage of cultivators that survive to ascension should be notably higher than the norm.
Plus, once you're ready to ascend, whichever plant you groomed to be your heir will become a cool spirit tree on the world you left behind.
 
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On the other hand, since these dudes are just plants, they probably won't be going around murdering each other
Plants are brutal man, they'll do whatever it takes to get one over the others.

In general, it seems like this setting is very dependent on no one having a deep enough understanding of AGI to construct Wills to spec. Otherwise it's hard to avoid the possibility of, say, teaching various Laws to an AI and then copying it into a large number of Wills and tiling your Inner World with Dantian's, or using an AI with predictable behavior to maintain control over nested worlds, or merging many copies of the same AI into one super-Will that can subsume God without loss.

In fact, given that last possibility which allows for projecting power upwards as well as downwards, I think things like this have to be categorically impossible. There needs to be a fairly tight limit on how much influence anyone can have over a new Will, and how much it's possible to speed up their Law comprehension.
 
So. I think I've finally figured out how I'd set up my excessively detailed minmaxing exercise Dantian if I happened to get SI'd into this mess.

So, first thing's first, I'd obviously be using the Honeycomb topology, with the "Heavens Inwards" orientation. Cell radius of fifteen kilometers with a Heavens-Earth distance of three kilometers at all locations except the inter-cell access pores. The pores will only be five hundred meters across, with a Heavens-Earth distance of 100 meters and a total lack of interesting terrain.

Meanwhile, I'd pretty obviously be going for an Energy Agriculture setup for those sweet gains, which practically mandates the following Laws.

-Law of Existence (for obvious reasons)
-Law of Cultivation/Recursion (Required)
-Law of Life (This lets me give the plants and fungi minds, so they can become Cultivators)
-Law of Karma (Needed for producing a viable incentive structure to keep everyone on track)
-Law of Reincarnation (Used to give everyone a chance to reach Cultivation)

Now, those Laws are the bare minimum, however I have a few more I'd like to include, both for fun and to give the Law of Karma some serious teeth to bite with.
-Law of Gravity
-Law of Electromagnetism
-Law of Communication

Anyway, now to hook the Law of Karma to the following Laws: Life, Gravity, Electromagnetism, Communication
The incentive structure will be structured as follows, especially since I plan on also having humans around and also don't want to have problems with universally hostile ascendants:
+ HUGE positive Karma: Cultivating via the Core Formation -> Dissipation cycle.
+ Positive Karma: Producing fruit for the mobile species to eat.
+ Positive Karma: Contributing Qi to the world.
+ Positive Karma: Helping those who've fallen on hard times or are otherwise vulnerable.
+ Positive Karma: Propagating plant life to places it has not yet reached or taken root.
~ Neutral Karma: Cultivating a sizable Inner World and not dissipating it.
~ Neutral Karma: Preparing to Ascend
- Negative Karma: Harming any being with Positive or Neutral Karma (some forgiveness for accidents)
- Negative Karma: Placing one's self above another in any exploitative hierarchy.
- MASSIVE Negative Karma: Tampering with the Reincarnation system.
- ALL the Negative Karma: Deliberately harming a Cultivator performing the Core Formation -> Dissipation cycle.

Residents of the Dantian with positive Karma will find it easier to come by the necessities of life, Gravity will be significantly more merciful and permissive of attempted shenanigans, they'll be extremely unlikely to get struck by lightning, and they'll have a tendency to encounter people (be they human or plant) that they'll get along well with if they strike up a conversation.

Negative Karma meanwhile will lead to harsher environmental conditions with a general dearth of resources, Gravity will progressively become more and more crushing, the individuals in question will also be massive lightning bait, and they will find themselves increasingly unlikely to encounter anyone that isn't a powerful Cultivator aiming to get rid of a low-Karma liability.

Tribulation meanwhile will be heavily Karma-dependent. For people with high Karma the Law of Communication is first used to get a sense of why they're wanting to Ascend and other related information. Depending on the answers, Tribulation either kicks into ludicrous death barrage mode, or the Ascendant is simply allowed to progress to Integration with no additional trouble. Low-Karma Ascendants meanwhile immediately end up on the receiving end of a ludicrous death barrage intended to wipe them from existence as quickly and thoroughly as possible.
 
Where does Will come from?
Will is a metaphysical entity capable of Comprehending Law, controlling Qi, and supporting personality and cognition.

The Genesis of Will is thought. Note that "thought" here need not refer to the thinking of biological entities; whenever you have a process that takes some sort of input and produces output in a varied but directed fashion, you have thought. A thundercloud "thinks" when it sends out lighting along a certain path, a forest-fire "thinks" when it spreads in a certain way, and a rock "thinks" when it crumbles in a certain way from erosion.

Every thought is enough to birth a spark of Will, but not every spark catches. For Will to actually persist, thought has to occur with enough density and consistency to coalesce into a sense of identity and start growing from there. This happens regularly with animals and humans, occasionally with plants, and only very rarely with anything else. In particular, of the examples used previously, a thundercloud and forest-fire are likely too large, diffuse, and mutable to coalesce a stable Will in all but the most unlikely of circumstances. The rock in turn has too little in the way of "thoughts".

Whenever Will is first formed, it has little in the way of options; the Will is not the body after all, and being formed by a body's thoughts doesn't automatically give the Will control of said body. A Will can't even independently think; it can only uncontrollably merge with Will sparks emerging from the thoughts of the body, a process which can either reinforce the Will or destabilize it depending on whether those Wills match or contradict. The only lever for action available to the Will is it's ability to control Qi - and once a Will has grown enough, that turns out to be sufficient. An instinctive usage of the Recursion law can allow a Will to influence the thoughts of the body* to be more in line with the Will, which kicks off a cycle:
  1. The thoughts of the body become a closer match to the Will
  2. The Will-sparks generated by the body become closer in nature to the Will, allowing the Will to grow more smoothly
  3. The Will is able to enforce greater alignment between the body's thoughts and its nature, leading us back to step 1
The result of this process is that after stabilizing, the thoughts of the body can be said to be the thoughts of the Will, with the body being an extension of Will and not a separate entity at all. This can be thought of as the Will "taking over" the body, but in truth that is an overly antagonistic take on the process. The Will is born of the thoughts of the body, after all; so this isn't a possession by a foreign agent, but rather a catalyzation of something internal. Or, as some might put it, this process is how a mere body births a Soul.


*Of course, to change the thoughts of the body means to change something physical; this one of the reasons that a sufficient density of Will is required to kick off this process, and also why entities with a central nervous system generate stable Wills much more readily than ones without such convenient lever for generating macro-level actions with minimal physical changes.
 
What Laws would you have to tweak to make this more common? I want elementals and non-human entities in my world, darn it!
For non-exotic non-human life (something that could live and think based purely on conventional physical laws) you might not need to use any additional Law at all, and just manipulate the Existence law to encourage those sorts of being to form naturally. For exotic non-human life, you can use the Life law to allow the physical forms of living beings to have supernatural properties (this is going to be the Law you lean on to get giant insects, walking trees, mythological creatures of various sorts, and so on). For elementals in particular, you might be able to get a decent amount of leverage with the Life law as well, but you could also use the appropriate Elemental laws to give the elements intrinsic direction past just the physical, which makes it much easier for them to coalesce a Will.
 
How harsh can you make a Heavenly Tribulation? Like, say, if you, as a god, just plain don't want anybody ascending because you're scared of ego-death, can you make it an absurd practically unsurvivable endless death barrage? What does it depend on? General Law understanding? The strength of your Will? The size of your World (and the amount of Qi you have, by extension)? Two of the three? All three? Is it practically possible to make Ascension impossible?
 
How harsh can you make a Heavenly Tribulation? Like, say, if you, as a god, just plain don't want anybody ascending because you're scared of ego-death, can you make it an absurd practically unsurvivable endless death barrage? What does it depend on? General Law understanding? The strength of your Will? The size of your World (and the amount of Qi you have, by extension)? Two of the three? All three? Is it practically possible to make Ascension impossible?
The main factor that decides how much you can do with your Inner World's Laws is absolutely and unquestionably Law Comprehension. Qi cultivation is completely irrelevant; you need Qi to set up Laws at all, but different implementations of Laws don't cost extra. In other words, actually changing how Tribulation works (e.g. it's strength) once you've set it up at all has no Qi cost. Will Cultivation is also irrelevant here, except insofar that Will cultivation makes it easier to pay attention to all the changes that happen in one's Inner World and therefore make it easier to spot issues and the like. No; what you want here is Law Comprehension - and the more specific and "non-central" the effect you want is, the greater the demands on said Comprehension are.

Take the Tribulation Law in particular. The nature of this Law is a mix of concepts: order, challenge, eradication. It is easy to set the Law up in a way that has Tribulation strike those challenging a boundary, with Ascension being a very clear-cut example of such. Setting up the Tribulation to be unsurvivable is... a lot more difficult. That sort of thing is in conflict with Tribulation's status as a challenge; what sort of challenge would it be if it is impossible to overcome? Ramping up the difficulty a bit is not a problem, but it gets progressively harder the further you push things.

And of course, nothing in the World is unbeatable; even the grandest Tribulation would not be able to defeat someone with a sufficient mastery of Law and the Qi to power it.



But. If you set up Tribulation to strike down anyone Ascending, and also strike down people who have lived enough (so they can't accumulate too much power), you can make your Dantian effectively watertight from the inside. No more Wills joining yours, for better or for worse.
 
In general, it seems like this setting is very dependent on no one having a deep enough understanding of AGI to construct Wills to spec. Otherwise it's hard to avoid the possibility of, say, teaching various Laws to an AI and then copying it into a large number of Wills and tiling your Inner World with Dantian's, or using an AI with predictable behavior to maintain control over nested worlds, or merging many copies of the same AI into one super-Will that can subsume God without loss.

In fact, given that last possibility which allows for projecting power upwards as well as downwards, I think things like this have to be categorically impossible. There needs to be a fairly tight limit on how much influence anyone can have over a new Will, and how much it's possible to speed up their Law comprehension.
I wrote the Will threadmark above to give context to this, but it should be stated that computers can act as pretty good bases for creating Will. Bootstrapping a machine into sentience is pretty easy, and while you can't program the Will precisely, if you are good at setting up the hardware/software, you might be able to set things up so that the Wills tend to have a given nature most of the time.

But you can't copy such an AI. You can copy the starting conditions in a way that reliably produces sapience, but you can't copy the sense of self that the AI would have. Nor could you copy their Law Comprehension (since it is tied to Will, not physical memory). Furthermore, their nature as machines won't provide much of an increase in Law Comprehension, because the Will is the one doing the comprehension and the physical body plays a supporting role at best.
 
Regarding my Tribulation setup, is connecting it to Karma and Communication like I did a feasible endeavor? Basically, in that case the actual challenge is "Be someone I can actually stand the thought of merging with." and the fail condition is "Be obliterated as quickly and thoroughly as possible."
 
The main factor that decides how much you can do with your Inner World's Laws is absolutely and unquestionably Law Comprehension. Qi cultivation is completely irrelevant; you need Qi to set up Laws at all, but different implementations of Laws don't cost extra. In other words, actually changing how Tribulation works (e.g. it's strength) once you've set it up at all has no Qi cost. Will Cultivation is also irrelevant here, except insofar that Will cultivation makes it easier to pay attention to all the changes that happen in one's Inner World and therefore make it easier to spot issues and the like. No; what you want here is Law Comprehension - and the more specific and "non-central" the effect you want is, the greater the demands on said Comprehension are.

Take the Tribulation Law in particular. The nature of this Law is a mix of concepts: order, challenge, eradication. It is easy to set the Law up in a way that has Tribulation strike those challenging a boundary, with Ascension being a very clear-cut example of such. Setting up the Tribulation to be unsurvivable is... a lot more difficult. That sort of thing is in conflict with Tribulation's status as a challenge; what sort of challenge would it be if it is impossible to overcome? Ramping up the difficulty a bit is not a problem, but it gets progressively harder the further you push things.

And of course, nothing in the World is unbeatable; even the grandest Tribulation would not be able to defeat someone with a sufficient mastery of Law and the Qi to power it.



But. If you set up Tribulation to strike down anyone Ascending, and also strike down people who have lived enough (so they can't accumulate too much power), you can make your Dantian effectively watertight from the inside. No more Wills joining yours, for better or for worse.
If Tribulations are inherently beatable (even if it's really hard) would it be a better idea to link Death, Fire, Lightning and a shitload of other offensive Laws into the Law of Karma and apply an arbitrarily large amount of negative Karma to those who violate the will of heaven? I assume it's not but I'd like to know why.
Also, what happens to people who try to Ascend on Top?
 
@PrimalShadow I have only a few remaining questions.

1: You've mentioned Apocalypses as a thing that can happen. How are those perceived from inside a Dantian, and is there anything the denizens can do to save their world?

2: What does an unattended Dantian look like from the outside anyway?

3: You've mentioned that a sufficiently energetic unattended Dantian can wind up acting as a sort of Qi Fountain. How does that work?
 
If Tribulations are inherently beatable (even if it's really hard) would it be a better idea to link Death, Fire, Lightning and a shitload of other offensive Laws into the Law of Karma and apply an arbitrarily large amount of negative Karma to those who violate the will of heaven? I assume it's not but I'd like to know why.

I don't see why you wouldn't already be linking your other Laws to the Tribulation Law to make it more effective than it could be alone? Like, folding the Laws of Karma and Tribulation together to make Tribulations more punishing for lower-Karma individuals, and using your comprehension of various destructive/offensive Laws to actually design your Tribulation effects from the ground up, that sort of thing.

Plus anything cultivators can do to overcome Tribulation is probably also something they can use to overcome your Karmic mockup.
 
Regarding my Tribulation setup, is connecting it to Karma and Communication like I did a feasible endeavor? Basically, in that case the actual challenge is "Be someone I can actually stand the thought of merging with." and the fail condition is "Be obliterated as quickly and thoroughly as possible."
Communication isn't a Law, though concepts of communication can be reached through a number of other Laws (so that part isn't an actual issue). Addressing your broader point, using Tribulation to filter out people who you can't bear to merge with is absolutely something that people do - this is called a "heart tribulation" and setting such things up is quite common overall.

If Tribulations are inherently beatable (even if it's really hard) would it be a better idea to link Death, Fire, Lightning and a shitload of other offensive Laws into the Law of Karma and apply an arbitrarily large amount of negative Karma to those who violate the will of heaven? I assume it's not but I'd like to know why.
If you want an absolute barrier, Tribulation is actually lacking in meaningful ways, because part of the concept of Tribulation is that there should be a seed of success. It is more complicated to use other Laws for the same sort of Ascension barrier, but it is certainly possible to arrange, and if you do it right you can get a result that is harder to get through with raw power.

You can't apply arbitrarily large amounts of negative Karma to people, though you can make Ascension hit you with a solid amount of negative-Karma. Frankly if you just want to link something to Ascension directly, the Law of Karma is probably not the best tool; Karma is supposed to be a global scoresheet, not a trigger for one specific thing.


Also, what happens to people who try to Ascend on Top?
Historically, they succeed the Integration step but fail the Dominion step. I have a specific design for what would happen if someone succeeds one day, but that is a story for another day.

1: You've mentioned Apocalypses as a thing that can happen. How are those perceived from inside a Dantian, and is there anything the denizens can do to save their world?
"Apocalypse" is the word for the thing that is perceived from the inside. From the outside of Dantian, there is no such thing; merely damage done to the Dantian.

Apocalypse follows its own rules, and part of those rules involve recovery, which denizens can help with if they have sufficient cultivation.

2: What does an unattended Dantian look like from the outside anyway?
It is possible to see a Dantian that isn't manifesting a body, drawing in or expelling Qi, or really doing anything other than just sitting here; such a thing looks like a perfectly-round 1.1-inch diameter ball with a perfectly reflective surface. I'll note that this isn't the same thing as "unattended", because while a Dantian without a controller looks this way, so does one where the control is just not doing anything (including supporting an Energy Body) in the Outer World. Those two states look the same from outside.

3: You've mentioned that a sufficiently energetic unattended Dantian can wind up acting as a sort of Qi Fountain. How does that work?
A sufficiently energetic damaged Dantian might act that way; an unattended Dantian justs this there.

This ties into Apocalypse. When a Dantian is damaged, it uncontrollably releases Qi at the maximal possible rate from the damaged portions until repaired. Normally, this is either patched or it drains a World all the way into complete Desolation, at which point the Dantian pops. However, there is nothing inherently unstable about the "spewing Qi" process; the reason the World tends to die is because it runs out of Qi, not because the damage kills it directly. If the World has enough Qi generation to support letting out a constant river of Qi, it just does that. In the Outer World, this is called a Qi Fountain, and it is just that - a fountain constantly shooting out Qi.
 
Something I find mildly annoying about this system is that clever tactics only work on the ground floor. Cool, unique ways of setting up an Inner World are inherently abandoned the moment you Ascend, even if that method is what allowed you to be Willful enough to do so. And then you're stuck with whatever world setup the guy who lost that contest had. Sure you can dick around with Laws but unless you want to cripple yourself and start over, you're stuck with the shape and inhabitants.

Although...

That's actually an interesting idea for an MC. If they're heavily focused on their unique style then they can easily convince someone to help them Ascend, because, if they succeed and then instantly shunt into a new body, that leaves the Throne open for their accomplice.
 
Well, there's always the (rather unlikely) possibility of being born in Top. On the other hand, this means having to contend with large numbers of old as fuck ludicrously powerful Cultivators.
 
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