Puella Magi Imperatrix Mundi, or: Wherein Half Of Japan Tries To Kill You

[Echo]

Also, Nerima neighbours Itabashi. Some of the Itabashi girls we've recruited may have a history... Oh.

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Given the shapes and relative positions of things, either Chizuka's group holds a comparatively huge territory by Tokyo standards or there'd be another group between them and Itabashi.

On the other end of things, the Shimura coalition held the eastern side of Itabashi, so if there was any history it would be with either Hisae's ex-group or the newer group that kicked everyone else out and now holds most of Itabashi ward.

Incidentally, as far as reputations go: Hisae's group was seen as "way more dangerous than they look, do not fuck with them", the Shimura coalition was "usually harmless, too busy with minor internal fights to bother with major external fights, but they've got heavy hitters so don't give them a reason to unite against you", and the current territory holders are seen as "seriously bad news, try to stay off their radar".

Overall, I don't think we actually want Chizuka's group to join us. Chizuka herself we might want (in spite of the fact that she appears to be willing to kill civilians as a side effect of using powers that give her slightly more tactical advantage), but based on currently available information her teammates aren't worthy of the loyalty she's giving them and the fact that she is loyal means that she won't join up without them. If we invite a group of girls who are explicitly untrustworthy to become our subordinates we start risking issues like "they are murdering people and not telling us", "they're passing information they have as members of the city to hostiles outside it", and "they'll turn on us in battle when they get a better offer". Those aren't things that we want to deal with.

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Maiko's grimoire has a tendency to produce a mixture of purple prose and half-assed snark, neither of which should be taken literally. She's pretty good at interpreting what the actual point is these days, but in this case it could be anything from "her teammates are actively treacherous and will backstab her any day now" to "they regard her as That One Annoying Kid who's sort of a friend and easy to take advantage of".

At the same time, it's important to give a coherent party line because she's going to pass on whatever we say to others, and they might pass that on to others. Thus, the basic "you can work for me if you're not awful" message must remain intact even if we suspect that the specific people receiving it are, in fact, awful. If there are not-awful magical girls in Tokyo who hear rumors of us and what we're up to, we want them to know that they're welcome.

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It would also be good to stay consistent with the message that's going to spread when Kaede tells Yukie about the "tea party" and subsequent Witch hunting trip.

It's a good idea, but I get the impression Chizuka herself is kinda new. It's worth asking, but we might have to make do with a more broad overview of the Nerima groups if they don't recognize her.

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She's been meguca for... a bit over a year-ish? Enough to be used to the realities but not as jaded as a lot of the older girls.

If she attacks us again, then I'd advise using deadly force. It's possible she may not come back after all, even if the pessimist in me is sure she will.

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Conservation of QM Effort Detail suggests that any meguca with a name and well-defined magic powers who isn't dead will probably return eventually, one way or another.

 

[Muramasa]

By the way, I forgot.

@Echo

Yui is pushing 2.5K corruption right now. Since most of our seeds can't handle that much individually, how would cleansing work for Yui again?

 

[Genial Precis]

I think the current vote is building toward something good here. That said, some thoughts...

Assuming we're letting her leave if she wants to leave, the question becomes "what news is she carrying back to Nerima, and will that news result in something that we want"?

Overall, I don't think we actually want Chizuka's group to join us. Chizuka herself we might want (in spite of the fact that she appears to be willing to kill civilians as a side effect of using powers that give her slightly more tactical advantage), but based on currently available information her teammates aren't worthy of the loyalty she's giving them and the fact that she is loyal means that she won't join up without them. If we invite a group of girls who are explicitly untrustworthy to become our subordinates we start risking issues like "they are murdering people and not telling us", "they're passing information they have as members of the city to hostiles outside it", and "they'll turn on us in battle when they get a better offer". Those aren't things that we want to deal with.

At the same time, it's important to give a coherent party line because she's going to pass on whatever we say to others, and they might pass that on to others. Thus, the basic "you can work for me if you're not awful" message must remain intact even if we suspect that the specific people receiving it are, in fact, awful. If there are not-awful magical girls in Tokyo who hear rumors of us and what we're up to, we want them to know that they're welcome.

But Chizuka said "we need this territory", which means basically "I will be back again with reinforcements if you don't demonstrate to me why that's a worse idea to attack you than someone else before I leave". As a Tokyo magical girl it's likely that she will interpret our refusal to inflict significant injury as inability to do so, meaning that in spite of the fact that she lost this one she'll still have Nagamioka marked out as a relatively soft target- if she can just get enough support with her to take out this one troublesome girl. I don't know that we can afford to have her sharing both the messages "she said we can come live there if we follow her rules" and "she was better than me, but not way better and I was outnumbered", because that leads to the logical conclusion of "we'll tell her that we'll follow her rules, move in, and kill her if and when she causes trouble" for someone who is all of desperate, ruthless, and untrustworthy, which Chizuka's teammates apparently are.

To me, that means that the "pace her and give our standard set of immigration laws" vote is good, but it needs to be accompanied by a directive to give a show of power of some kind such that the message brought back to Tokyo is that we didn't kill her because we didn't want to rather than because we couldn't. How, exactly, we should accomplish that I'm not sure, but I do think that it's very necessary if we're not interested in needing to muster up a posse to throw back a full-blown invasion in this area within the next couple days.

The vote could also use minor refinements like "keep with her up until the Tokyo/Nagamioka border, but don't cross it" and "have Minami track her movements in Tokyo until she meets up with more girls, then see if she can pass descriptions/imagery of them to Maiko", as well as a set of general directions for the likely case that Chizuka just keeps moving and we're left wondering what to do after we hit the border (go back and talk to our native new contractee, probably).

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Cogent as usual... Here's an attempt at doing some of that; credit to @SystemicHatter for the capture-and-release idea as a show of force.

[x] Overtake Chizuka and go for a tackle in order to capture her.
- [x] Have Minami use her menacing targeting reticle to help box her in.
- [x] Once you've caught her...
-- [x] Explain that, in general, meguca are welcome to immigrate so long as they swear allegiance to Yui as your adorable daimyo and obey some pretty common sense/basic decency rules (like 'not killing people' and 'dont wreck buildings people work really hard on them')
--- [x] And she seems OK and is therefore potentially welcome but her teammates are probably dicks who don't deserve her and therefore unwelcome.
-- [x] Ask if she would like to stay.
--- [x] If she would not, physically throw her out of Nagamioka. Cheerfully, no harm no foul, etc, can't have her skulking around if she's not going to move in, though.
[x] Have Minami spy on Chizuka.
- [x] But don't cross the border with Tokyo to do so, and watch out for ambushes
- [x] Try to use Chizuka to locate her teammates, in order to get info on them to feed to Maiko

 

[Redshirt Army]

[X] Follow her up to the Tokyo/Nagamioka border. Pace her, in fact. Minami and Maiko should tag along in case you get double ambushed by more Nerima girls or something.
-[x] Ask Minami to search for the other Nerima girls as you go.
--[x] If she finds them, she should relay the details to Maiko.

[x] Brainmail the Itabashi girls, with Maiko in the background of the line. Ask if they know about Chizuka. Mention that she's from Nerima, her costume, and her magic. If they do, ask for the super abridged version, you're in the middle of a chase scene!

[x] Brainmail Chizuka. Address her by name.
-[X] Nagamioka is a governed territory. Implicitly invoke your authority as its pink and sparkly leader, and magically assert your authority as Momoko's heir to back up that impression.
-[x] If her group is okay with cooperating, you'd be alright with them hunting in Nagamioka. But they'd have to tone things down - that much collateral damage, and risking civilians, is not okay. Sheesh!

[x] If she doesn't respond: Physically get in front of her. Assert your authority over any magic she tries to pull up and claim it as your own.
-[x] It's rude to ignore people who are talking!
--[x] Give her the message in person, verbally, then escort her to the edge of your territory. If she tries anything, stop her in a way that, preferentially, demonstrates your absurd strength.

 

[MobiusC]

I think we should catch up to her and pace her, trying to get her to talk. Ask for name/hobbies/relationship status, and see if we can't open up a dialog or get any information.

I'd rather we be subtly menacing, rather than overtly.

e:

--[x] Give her the message in person, verbally, then escort her back to her group.

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To the edge of our territory should be fine.

 

[DarkLight140]

@DarkLight140: Maybe catch her and let her go, then? Indicate that Yui could have utterly demolished her, give her the terms, and then ask Minami to see where she goes and what her team is like. As you've indicated, pacing her really isn't good enough for a show of strength.

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Could work. One thing of note is that if she's not attacking anymore because she's running, Yui is no longer distracted from charging up large beams... and we have nonlethal beams as of the latest update. We could just get to a point with reasonably good visibility and hit her with overwhelming magical bombardment to nonlethally incapacitate. The idea of simply moving fast enough to catch her (super strength means super speed, right?) is also solid for forcing engagement, and engaging in melee as in the latest vote by @Genial Precis has some merit but also has the serious problem that melee range means a quick snatch-and-smash for our soul gem becomes a viable move on Chizuka's end, which would be very bad for us. Yui's melee power is great but actually moving into melee opens up vulnerabilities that we don't need.

I think we should catch up to her and pace her, trying to get her to talk. Ask for name/hobbies/relationship status, and see if we can't open up a dialog or get any information.

I'd rather we be subtly menacing, rather than overtly.

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Subtle menace is great except when people are desperate enough that they're inclined to try and call your bluff. Current evidence is that Chizuka's group is, and will.

 

[Redshirt Army]

Hmm. If we want to impress our level of danger... here's a thought.

Charge up an impressive multi-beam spread. Have Minami do her targeting thing. Use our power control to borrow/take the link to the targeting thing. Blow up the pavement in front of Chizuka with it.

Badda Bing badda Boom.

Then, when we want to negotiate later, Minami can just paint a target on the floor in front of anybody within her range while opening up a comm link with them and let them draw their own conclusions.

The biggest issue with it is that it makes our "collateral damage" argument really hypocritical.

 

[Echo]

Yui is pushing 2.5K corruption right now. Since most of our seeds can't handle that much individually, how would cleansing work for Yui again?

Click to shrink...

Right now? Lorelei.

Here's a list of the unused seeds Yui has personally collected, BTW:

Lorelei: 12,000
Erma: 2,900
Claire(2): 3,000
Katrina: 2,500
Wanda: 3,100
Monique: 2,800
Pauline: 2,700
Lisette: 2,400
Victoria: 2,300
Elodie: 2,100
Melanie: 1,800
Harriet(2): 3,000
Mimi: 2,700
Johanna: 2,200
Tarja: 1,800

Maiko has another 20-ish that belonged to Momoko, which are mostly in the 1.5k - 2.5k range.

The idea of simply moving fast enough to catch her (super strength means super speed, right?) is also solid for forcing engagement,

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Yui can run and/or air jump fast enough to break expressway speed limits. She can catch up to most meguca who don't specifically have super-speed, teleportation, &c.

 

[Vebyast]

I can't find the map Echo put up a couple days ago. Isn't there a river between Nagamioka and Tokyo? If so, is she going to have to cross it? We might be able to do the high-end bombardment show of force using that as a backstop.

edit: If we do the capture-and-release strategies, that might be something to do right before we let her go. "BTW, this is why I was worried about accidentally killing you.".

 

[DarkLight140]

The biggest issue with it is that it makes our "collateral damage" argument really hypocritical.

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Yui has already shown herself willing to cause fairly significant property damage in order to achieve a tactical objective, and I don't see that changing moving forward.

The collateral damage that she cares about very much is the fact that Chizuka was using attacks which had a high probability of killing innocent civilians if they went off, which Yui would never do. That's the line that we need to have her draw, because while Chizuka didn't actually get that attack off, if she had killed someone in Nagamioka as a side effect of trying to blast Yui I'm reasonably certain that Yui would have taken a huge grief hit and not only blacklisted her but possibly felt justified in playing serious hardball. I expect that Yui will first kill someone in response to their killing some of her civilians.

 

[Redshirt Army]

Version 2.0!

[X] Follow her up to the Tokyo/Nagamioka border. Catch up to her in a casual display of speed, then pace her.
-[x] Minami and Maiko should tag along in case you get double ambushed by more Nerima girls or something. Minami can search for the other Nerima girls and relay to Maiko as you go.

[x] Brainmail the Itabashi girls, with Maiko in the background of the line. Ask if they know about Chizuka. Mention that she's from Nerima, her costume, and her magic. If they do, ask for the super abridged version, you're in the middle of a chase scene!

[x] Brainmail Chizuka. Address her by name.
-[X] Nagamioka is a governed territory. Implicitly invoke your authority as its pink and sparkly leader, and magically assert your authority as Momoko's heir to back up that impression.
-[x] If her group is okay with cooperating, you'd be alright with them hunting in Nagamioka. But they'd have to tone things down - risking civilians is not okay. Sheesh!

[x] If she doesn't respond: Boost ahead to physically get in front of her. Land in a display of physical strength, and try configuring your wand for a multispread configuration of punchbeams.
-[x] If she tries anything with metal, assert your authority over any magic she tries to pull up and shut it down.
-[x] It's rude to ignore people who are talking!
--[x] Give her the message in person, verbally, then escort her to the edge of your territory.
---[] Then pick her up, jump to the other side of the river, and put her down.

 

[Genial Precis]

No more closing to melee against someone we can't go all-out on, substituted fun with the new beam type, stole @Redshirt Army's line about Itabashi girls, added steel-chewing for a show of strength.

I expect that Yui will first kill someone in response to their killing some of her civilians.

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Ooh, yeah, that may well end up being the case.

[x] Overtake Chizuka and halt her flight with nonlethal beams.
- [x] Use nonlethal beams to control her movements--make her stay more or less in one place and talk.
-- [x] Have Minami use her menacing targeting reticle to help box her in.
- [x] Snatch up a piece of the steel she was throwing at you before you take off.

[x] Once you've caught her...
- [x] Pop a piece of steel in your mouth and see if it is chewy.
- [x] Explain that, in general, meguca are welcome to immigrate so long as they swear allegiance to Yui as your adorable daimyo and obey some pretty common sense/basic decency rules (like 'not killing people' and 'dont wreck buildings people work really hard on them')
-- [x] And she seems OK and is therefore potentially welcome but her teammates are probably dicks who don't deserve her and therefore unwelcome.
- [x] Ask if she would like to stay.
-- [x] If she would not, amiably stand aside and let her go. You have no need to personally chase her out; you'll know if she lingers.

[x] Have Minami spy on Chizuka.
- [x] But don't cross the border with Tokyo to do so, and watch out for ambushes.
- [x] Try to use Chizuka to locate her teammates, in order to get info on them to feed to Maiko.
- [x] Use the menacing targeting reticle to chase her out if necessary.

[x] Brainmail the Itabashi girls, with Maiko in the background of the line. Ask if they know about Chizuka. Mention that she's from Nerima, her costume, and her magic. If they do, ask for the super abridged version, you're in the middle of a chase scene!

 

[Cornix Argentus]

[X] Follow her up to the Tokyo/Nagamioka border. Catch up to her in a casual display of speed, then pace her
-[X] Minami and Maiko should tag along in case you get double ambushed by more Nerima girls or something. Minami can search for the other Nerima girls and relay to Maiko as you go.

[X] Brainmail the Itabashi girls, with Maiko in the background of the line. Ask if they know about Chizuka. Mention that she's from Nerima, her costume, and her magic. If they do, ask for the super abridged version, you're in the middle of a chase scene!

[X] Brainmail Chizuka. Address her by name.
-[X] Nagamioka is a governed territory. Implicitly invoke your authority as its pink and sparkly leader, and magically assert your authority as Momoko's heir to back up that impression.
-[X] If her group is okay with cooperating, you'd be alright with them hunting in Nagamioka. But they'd have to tone things down - that much collateral damage, and risking civilians, is not okay. Sheesh!

[X] If she doesn't respond: Boost ahead to physically get in front of her. Land in a display of physical strength, and try configuring your wand for a multispread configuration of punchbeams.
-[X] If she tries anything with metal, assert your authority over any magic she tries to pull up and shut it down.
-[X] It's rude to ignore people who are talking!
--[X] Give her the message in person, verbally, then escort her to the edge of your territory.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Echo]

I can't find the map Echo put up a couple days ago. Isn't there a river between Nagamioka and Tokyo? If so, is she going to have to cross it? We might be able to do the high-end bombardment show of force using that as a backstop.

Click to shrink...

In this case, a real map might be more useful! As you can see, no river on the northern border of Nerima. The river you're thinking of is the Arakawa, which forms a section of Itabashi's northern border.

Yui has already shown herself willing to cause fairly significant property damage in order to achieve a tactical objective, and I don't see that changing moving forward.

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Yui has so far not caused much more than non-structural damage to stuff that's either out of the way, unused, or already broken. Chizuka, on the other hand, demolished most of a perfectly good building that was in the middle of being built.

Yui probably wouldn't want to blow up, say, chunks of road that people actually use, or anything else that would have immediate negative consequences to civilians.

 

[Nervos Belli]

[X] Redshirt Army

Good combination of diplomatic and authoritative. And getting some practice invoking authority seems like a good idea.

 

[Redshirt Army]

Should we ask Yumi, instead or in addition to the Itabashi girls? She seemed to keep up with the politics in that area decently, and she's more "inner circle" then them...

 

[Echo]

Should we ask Yumi, instead or in addition to the Itabashi girls? She seemed to keep up with the politics in that area decently, and she's more "inner circle" then them...

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Yumi is an "Itabashi girl", though.

Yumi and Rio's group are the remaining members of the Shimura coalition that held eastern Itabashi for many years.

 

[PhDEevee]

-- [] And she seems OK and is therefore potentially welcome but her teammates are probably dicks who don't deserve her and therefore unwelcome.
- [] Ask if she would like to stay.
-- [] If she would not, amiably stand aside and let her go. You have no need to personally chase her out; you'll know if she lingers.

Click to shrink...

I don't like this section. I don't think we're going to get anywhere with this approach - we know she's loyal to her friends, and we don't actually know the extent of their untrustworthiness. We might want to ask pointed questions about what she's doing alone deep in someone else's territory attacking people, though. And what kind of friends would allow that.

@Redshirt Army: I'd go Yumi first and follow up with the rest of the Itabashi girls if she doesn't have anything. She just seems to be more knowledgeable in general.

 

[PhDEevee]

You know, I'm just going to call Rio, Fuuka and Kiyomi the 'Rio Trio' now. It's shorter and avoids confusion with Yumi.

 

[Muramasa]

Right now? Lorelei.

Here's a list of the unused seeds Yui has personally collected, BTW:

Lorelei: 12,000
Erma: 2,900
Claire(2): 3,000
Katrina: 2,500
Wanda: 3,100
Monique: 2,800
Pauline: 2,700
Lisette: 2,400
Victoria: 2,300
Elodie: 2,100
Melanie: 1,800
Harriet(2): 3,000
Mimi: 2,700
Johanna: 2,200
Tarja: 1,800

Maiko has another 20-ish that belonged to Momoko, which are mostly in the 1.5k - 2.5k range.



Yui can run and/or air jump fast enough to break expressway speed limits. She can catch up to most meguca who don't specifically have super-speed, teleportation, &c.

Click to shrink...

Ah. Well good to know, Yui has seeds that won't go over limit. Thanks for answering. Though what are the current rules for seeds that hit the limit? Also I recall Maiko making a request to Yui about how to handle near full seeds?

 

[Vebyast]

Right now? Lorelei.

Click to shrink...

Um. Does this mean that, if Yui starts spiraling or does anything else that takes her over 3k Grief, all but one of our seeds are useless because they're too small to cleanse her safely?

 

[MobiusC]

added steel-chewing for a show of strength.

Click to shrink...

I love that this is a legitimate strategy

 

[Genial Precis]

This is starting to get pretty convergent with Redshirt's vote, which may be a good sign.

[x] Overtake Chizuka and halt her flight with nonlethal beams.
- [x] Use nonlethal beams to control her movements--make her stay more or less in one place and talk.
-- [x] Have Minami use her menacing targeting reticle to help box her in.
- [x] Snatch up a piece of the steel she was throwing at you before you take off.

[x] Once you've caught her...
- [x] Pop a piece of steel in your mouth and see if it is chewy.
- [x] Explain that, in general, meguca are welcome to immigrate so long as they swear allegiance to Yui as your adorable daimyo and obey some pretty common sense/basic decency rules (like 'not killing people' and 'dont wreck buildings people work really hard on them')
- [x] Anyway, what was she actually doing out here? Shouldn't she have had backup or something, or maybe any other teammates at all to patrol the territory they're apparently trying to claim?
- [x] Ask if she would like to stay and join your group. If not, you must ask her to leave.
-- [x] If she would not, amiably stand aside and let her go. You have no need to personally chase her out; you'll know if she lingers.

[x] Have Minami spy on Chizuka.
- [x] But don't cross the border with Tokyo to do so, and watch out for ambushes.
- [x] Try to use Chizuka to locate her teammates, in order to get info on them to feed to Maiko.
- [x] Use the menacing targeting reticle to chase her out if necessary.

[x] Brainmail the Itabashi girls, with Maiko in the background of the line. Ask if they know about Chizuka. Mention that she's from Nerima, her costume, and her magic. If they do, ask for the super abridged version, you're in the middle of a chase scene!

 

[Echo]

You know, I'm just going to call Rio, Fuuka and Kiyomi the 'Rio Trio' now. It's shorter and avoids confusion with Yumi.

Click to shrink...

Oh? Not "the tRio"?

Ah. Well good to know, Yui has seeds that won't go over limit. Thanks for answering.

Click to shrink...

Using Grief Seeds appropriately is generally one of those things I'll have Yui do on her own. Unless it's mid-combat or otherwise a point when stopping to find/use a seed is a strategic issue, of course.

Though what are the current rules for seeds that hit the limit?

Click to shrink...

The given numeric value is the amount required for the Witch to form her barrier. Any Seed at or above that limit can rehatch, but may not do so immediately. Generally, the only safe thing to do at that point is give it to Kyubey.

Also I recall Maiko making a request to Yui about how to handle near full seeds?

Click to shrink...

She wants Seeds too full to be safely used again without exceeding the limit, because those can go in the Grief Seed array used for her Phylactery Charging Station corruption balancer and be safely filled to well over 100%.

Um. Does this mean that, if Yui starts spiraling or does anything else that takes her over 3k Grief, all but one of our seeds are useless because they're too small to cleanse her safely?

Click to shrink...

No, it just means you'll really want Kyubey around to take the filled Seed(s) immediately.

That, or let Maiko disconnect you and use her corruption balancer to reduce the amount of corruption before waking you up.

I love that this is a legitimate strategy

Click to shrink...

I'm still not sure if it's more or less impressive than the concrete-chewing (which already warranted a new tag for this quest).

 

[Redshirt Army]

Um. Does this mean that, if Yui starts spiraling or does anything else that takes her over 3k Grief, all but one of our seeds are useless because they're too small to cleanse her safely?

Click to shrink...

What's our current corruption level, anyway? Is it tracked anywhere convenient? I checked the character sheets and didn't see it, but that might be 'cause I'm on my phone.

Vote Version 2.3!

[X] Follow her up to the Tokyo/Nagamioka border. Catch up to her in a casual display of speed, then pace her.
-[x] Minami and Maiko should tag along in case you get double ambushed by more Nerima girls or something. Minami can search for the other Nerima girls and relay to Maiko as you go.

[x] Brainmail Yumi, with Maiko in the background of the line. Ask if she knows about Chizuka. Mention that she's from Nerima, her costume, and her magic. If she does, ask for the super abridged version, you're in the middle of a chase scene!

[x] Brainmail Chizuka. Address her by name.
-[X] Nagamioka is a governed territory. Implicitly invoke your authority as its pink and sparkly leader, and magically assert your authority as Momoko's heir to back up that impression.
-[x] If her group is okay with cooperating, you'd be alright with them hunting in Nagamioka. But they'd have to tone things down - risking civilians is not okay. Sheesh!

[x] If she doesn't respond: Boost ahead to physically get in front of her. Land in a display of physical strength, and try configuring your wand for a multispread configuration of punchbeams.
-[x] If she tries anything with metal, assert your authority over any magic she tries to pull up and shut it down.
-[x] If she tries to approach you in melee or get past you, nonlethal beams to control her movements and get her to stand still.
--[x] It's rude to ignore people who are talking!
---[x] Give her the message to her group in person, verbally, then escort her to the edge of your territory.