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Price of Blood [Worm fanfic] (Complete)

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Ack said:
Besides, he was armed with two firearms and a knife (and was trained to use all three). Unless and until he was disarmed of all of these, she was perfectly within her rights to keep hitting him.
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But she did disarm him. Then she knelt down on him and beat his brains out. Or did she artistically arrange him after putting the weapons back in his hands?
 
Ack said:
Besides, he was armed with two firearms and a knife (and was trained to use all three). Unless and until he was disarmed of all of these, she was perfectly within her rights to keep hitting him.
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No offense, but he can't use those firearms if he's unconscious. However, I could see her arguing that she wasn't sure she had given him a concussion with those punches (which is necessary to keep the victim from just getting up again three seconds later), and it was proven that Coil had moles inside the PRT building. She could conceivably argue that if she didn't kill him, she was risking him getting back up again and going through with his plan, especially since as far as she knew he could conceivably have made sure the armed security guards that picked him up were in fact his moles.

I would compare this situation to the death of Jacques Mesrine. This was a bank robber who was legendary for escaping from prison several times, disguising himself expertly, and robbing banks with such unbridled impunity that he became seen by the public as a "Robin Hood" figure. The gendarme knew they couldn't hold him, and knew he would never surrender if he could get away with it, so they just boxed in his car and had a bunch of police marksmen go full Bonnie and Clyde on him in an extrajudicial ambush killing. After shooting him 15 times, they finished him off with a point-blank shot from a pistol. No-one was ever charged for this obvious case of police assassination, despite his innocent mistress, also in the car, losing an eye, being shot in the arm and her poodle killed in the barrage.

This is a similar situation, albeit only between two people. Piggot doesn't know if Coil has any more backup plans or hidden agents in the building. She also knows Coil has a tendency to go into any situation extremely prepared, with dozens if not hundreds of contingencies in place and contingencies for those contingencies. And seeing as Coil just marched into her office with two guns, it's obvious from her perspective that he intended to kill her. And now that she finally has the option to nip all of those contingencies in the bud, and isn't sure he won't just get up again at the drop of a hat? Yes, I could totally see her getting away with the killing under those circumstances. On top of that, she's a high-ranking and unpowered member of the country's superhero division and he's arguably one of the most dangerous villains in the city, and a Parahuman to boot.

That's three different tried-and-true excuses right there: 1) The Bonnie and Clyde defense (he was too dangerous to be left alive. Police tend not to be prosecuted in these situations), 2) Normal human vs dangerous parahuman, and 3) The perpetrator was both an authority figure and a cop.

Also, Earth Bet has thirty years of cultural divergence on us. Who's to say there's not a law or regulation somewhere that's meant to excuse the PRT in this exact situation? Maybe the Bonnie and Clyde defense really is enshrined into law there, without even a kill order being necessary. Of course, it's up to Ack how he'll deal with this, so I can't state that it's there for sure, but it's his story and I trust him to wrap things up neatly.
 
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Genon said:
No offense, but he can't use those firearms if he's unconscious. However, I could see her arguing that she wasn't sure she had given him a concussion with those punches (which is necessary to keep the victim from just getting up again three seconds later), and it was proven that Coil had moles inside the PRT building. She could conceivably argue that if she didn't kill him, she was risking him getting back up again and going through with his plan, especially since as far as she knew he could conceivably have made sure the armed security guards that picked him up were in fact his moles.

I would compare this situation to the death of Jacques Mesrine. This was a bank robber who was legendary for escaping from prison several times, disguising himself expertly, and robbing banks with such unbridled impunity that he became seen by the public as a "Robin Hood" figure. The gendarme knew they couldn't hold him, and knew he would never surrender if he could get away with it, so they just boxed in his car and had a bunch of police marksmen go full Bonnie and Clyde on him in an extrajudicial ambush killing. After shooting him 15 times, they finished him off with a point-blank shot from a pistol. No-one was ever charged for this obvious case of police assassination, despite his innocent mistress, also in the car, losing an eye, being shot in the arm and her poodle killed in the barrage.

This is a similar situation, albeit only between two people. Piggot doesn't know if Coil has any more backup plans or hidden agents in the building. She also knows Coil has a tendency to go into any situation extremely prepared, with dozens if not hundreds of contingencies in place and contingencies for those contingencies. And seeing as Coil just marched into her office with two guns, it's obvious from her perspective that he intended to kill her. And now that she finally has the option to nip all of those contingencies in the bud, and isn't sure he won't just get up again at the drop of a hat? Yes, I could totally see her getting away with the killing under those circumstances. On top of that, she's a high-ranking and unpowered member of the country's superhero division and he's arguably one of the most dangerous villains in the city, and a Parahuman to boot.

That's three different tried-and-true excuses right there: 1) The Bonnie and Clyde defense (he was too dangerous to be left alive. Police tend not to be prosecuted in these situations), 2) Normal human vs dangerous parahuman, and 3) The perpetrator was both an authority figure and a cop.

Also, Earth Bet has thirty years of cultural divergence on us. Who's to say there's not a law or regulation somewhere that's meant to excuse the PRT in this exact situation? Maybe the Bonnie and Clyde defense really is enshrined into law there, without even a kill order being necessary. Of course, it's up to Ack how he'll deal with this, so I can't state that it's there for sure, but it's his story and I trust him to wrap things up neatly.
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Piggot's going to deal with it by ... not dealing with it.

She's gonna go on with business as normal, and silently dare everyone around her to make something of it.

"Yes, we detected a mole and set up an operation to capture him. He showed his extreme resourcefulness by killing several of my men before invading my office, armed with an assault rifle and a pistol. I took no chances that he might get up from anything I might do to him. He died as a result, which means we get to write the narrative from here on in. Do you have a problem with that?"
 
Genon said:
This is a similar situation, albeit only between two people. Piggot doesn't know if Coil has any more backup plans or hidden agents in the building. She also knows Coil has a tendency to go into any situation extremely prepared, with dozens if not hundreds of contingencies in place and contingencies for those contingencies. And seeing as Coil just marched into her office with two guns, it's obvious from her perspective that he intended to kill her. And now that she finally has the option to nip all of those contingencies in the bud, and isn't sure he won't just get up again at the drop of a hat? Yes, I could totally see her getting away with the killing under those circumstances. On top of that, she's a high-ranking and unpowered member of the country's superhero division and he's arguably one of the most dangerous villains in the city, and a Parahuman to boot.
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I could see an argument being made and accepted using the above. Believed... Well, official acceptance is all she needs.

Ack said:
Piggot's going to deal with it by ... not dealing with it.

She's gonna go on with business as normal, and silently dare everyone around her to make something of it.

"Yes, we detected a mole and set up an operation to capture him. He showed his extreme resourcefulness by killing several of my men before invading my office, armed with an assault rifle and a pistol. I took no chances that he might get up from anything I might do to him. He died as a result, which means we get to write the narrative from here on in. Do you have a problem with that?"
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The problem with that is the precedence those who understand believes it creates.
 
Also did they know wether coil had powers at the time, and wether they might help him? Im not rereading the whole thing right now to check, but depending on that, they can add thats another excuse (he had powers that he could have used to escape/kill us) would be an obvious narrative.
 
This has got to be my favorite story you've written. It's tense, go-for-broke, we-make-the-rules-here-chum attitude is just so Wormy, while at the same time retaining an air of hope.

1) I can totally see Piggot beating Coil to death; more, I believe it was the right play -- not only because you can only trust Coil when he's fertilizer but because he Knows Too Much and Cauldron is a firm believer in Scorched-Earth-Policy about their secrets. And they're Chaotic Stupid.

2) Go, Undersiders! The epic battle between Grue and Shadow Stalker draws to a bitter, nail-biting finish! Wil Sophia go quietly (HAH), allow herself to be taken alive...or will she Second Trigger? Enquiring fans wanna know!

3) The Any/Taylor sistership chugs on; I love it.

4) Glory Girl gets a much-needed wake-up call as a parahuman who supposedly has no chance against her takes her out of the fight. Let's hope the lesson sticks, hey?
 
Skychan said:
That precedent has already been made. Countless times. Even with video evidence showing that the police/authority figure in question is beyond clearly in the wrong.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/05/us/controversial-police-encounters-fast-facts/index.html

Just a few highlights
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Yes. For the police in various countries. And it is a bad one. But we do not know about what the policy / precedence for the Wards, PRT agents and Protectorate members is. The unwritten rules, the Endbringer truce, Armsmaster's rebranding and the statements by Armsmaster, Miss Militia and Dragon about Alexandria after her death does suggest that a certain appearance of legality and trustworthiness was kept.

Given her health issues Piggot legitimately having no option but shooting Coil is believable. Needing to beat him to death to keep him from escaping or endangering her isn't. Known for doing so, which appears to be the case, gives her people the impression doing so isn't wrong in the eyes of the PRT. Which leads to incidents.
 
Look, let's not kid ourselves. Piggot had a million solid reasons to kill Coil by whatever means necessary but she did it because she just really really wanted to and he had finally given her AMPLE reason.

Also, the whole invalid-getting-to-be-a-physical-badass-again thing must have factored in too. Otherwise, she'd have just emptied a gun into his skull.
 
Something everyone going on about how bad piggot is for continuing to beat Coil after he was unconscious are ignoring. A real fight IS NOT a video game, you don't have a magical health bar that tells you exactly what shape your opponent is, you don't get to calmly look at things and decide when when the guy who was trying to kill you is down and it's safe to let go. You're going to have adrenaline and panic and even when he's down, if you can't get away you really should punch him several more times to make sure he STAYS down.

Piggot could have beaten him unconscious, and have him wake up two seconds later and shoot her, or he could have died from the same blow that knocked him unconscious.
 
And let's be honest here folks Calvert was a dead man even if Piggot wasn't the one to kill him, because do you think if he thought for even a minute that squealing everything he knew would keep him alive then I have a bridge to Terabithia to sell to you as we all would then find out that Coil died in his cell before any kind of interrogation from a sudden and out of nowhere bullet turned his head into chunky salsa.
 
Dr. Mercurious said:
Cauldron is a firm believer in Scorched-Earth-Policy about their secrets. And they're Chaotic Stupid.
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They really aren't. They're super cautious to avoid attracting the attention of the almost-god that could destroy them in a moment if it found them, while raising an army to fight against an opponent they have very little chance of beating and whom their unbeatable precog is completely blind to. All the while trying to prepare for what happens should the miraculous occur and they actually manage to prevent humanities extinction. Chaotic? Yes, I suppose I can agree with that, to a certain extent. Stupid? Absolutely not.
Dr. Mercurious said:
or will she Second Trigger?
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I hope not. Second triggers are meant to be super rare, with only two happening throughout Worm (Grue and King of Cups), and a third that happened pre-canon (Narwhal). Fanfics tend to make them happen very easily and without justification, so I personally hope there aren't any second triggers at all.
 
JackTheBaxter said:
Taylor didn't second trigger. She had a 1.5 trigger, which locked her out of ever getting a true second trigger.
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Allow me to call that bullshit. And the WoG supporting that is "WildBow-level bullshit".

You cannot be "a bit pregnant", and you cannot have "a bit of a trigger event". So even if it's not as effective as a "normal" second trigger, it still is a second trigger.
 
Let's be honest: Taylor can have second triggered, or can still second trigger, or can have he last .5 of a trigger, or have a third trigger, depending on the author's needs for the story she's in at the time.
 
In my mind it doesn't really matter whether it was 2nd or 1.5 trigger. The effects of her power don't change and she cannot trigger again.
 
Darth Thanatos said:
Allow me to call that bullshit. And the WoG supporting that is "WildBow-level bullshit".

You cannot be "a bit pregnant", and you cannot have "a bit of a trigger event". So even if it's not as effective as a "normal" second trigger, it still is a second trigger.
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I agree, totally.

This, IMO, is WB trying to be smart and shoehorning in what he hadn't really fully worked out rules for when he wrote it into the rules he's created after the fact.

Taylor triggered. This created more chaos and conflict in her own mind as she was trapped with the overwhelming awareness of all the bugs, so she triggered again with the ability to understand the awareness and shut it off when she had to.

That fits Worm as written, so that's what I'm going with.

1.5 triggers, my ass.
 
Darth Thanatos said:
So even if it's not as effective as a "normal" second trigger, it still is a second trigger.
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The author says otherwise, therefore you are wrong. It's the shard going "Whoops, I made a mistake, I'll have to use up my fuel reserve to re-calibrate instead of saving it for a second trigger later." You cannot say that Darth Vader isn't Luke Skywalker's father just because that wasn't intended in the original Star Wars script. The author has stated that 1.5 triggers are not true second triggers, therefore they aren't. That's it. End of story.
 
JackTheBaxter said:
The author has stated that 1.5 triggers are not true second triggers, therefore they aren't. That's it. End of story.
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Actually, that level of author-generated bullshit is why "death of the author" is a thing...

I quote the relevant portion:
On the flip side, a lot of authors are unavailable or unwilling to comment on their intentions, and even when they are, they don't always make choices for reasons that make sense or are easily explainable to others (or sometimes even to themselves).
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So basically, any time you disagree with the author on a stated fact of their setting, it must be because they're confused or an idiot.
 
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