Price of Blood [Worm fanfic] (Complete)

[Railyn]

Do you really think three meathead jocks who run into a crowd of bees are going to go "hey, where did all those bees come from" and go back and check the spot they just got chased out of? Or report it out of the blue to an adult while having to explain what they were doing?

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Not sure they'd have to. Next day, they come back to school covered in bee stings. Sophia asks, "So did you get her?" and the guys reply, "Nah, these bees came out of fucking nowhere and started stinging us, so we gave up." So Sophia, being herself and having a direct line to the Protectorate, calls in a possible parahuman attack on unpowered civilians, telling them a story about how a few guys she knows were out on a walk when they got attacked by a bunch of insects while this girl watches with a nasty look on her face. Doesn't really matter if she actually believes Taylor's a parahuman or not; the accusation itself is probably going to cause a bunch of shit for Taylor so mission accomplished regardless.

And I do not buy AT ALL that she couldn't figure this out on her own while running.

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She forgot at least one thing while carefully planning her debut as a hero in canon: she left herself no way to call in the Protectorate if she ran into a situation she couldn't handle. She didn't even have change for a pay phone.

So I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that, if she forgot something that important while planning over the course of several months, she could have overlooked something while trying to figure out a way to get away from a bunch of assholes over the space of a few blocks.

 

[TheUnicorn]

"Items 2 and 3 above apply to all those, with the added benefit of failing to explain why Taylor didn't use her powers to escape or why she believes the teenagers can pose such a threat."

You realize that that exact same complaint can be brought against the original, right?

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No, how do they apply? Taylor panicking when surrounded by attackers with no one else nearby explains 2, the fact she was knocked unconscious explains 3, and for the rest are you honestly claiming you missed Taylor using her powers to try and escape, or that five boys weren't a physical threat to Taylor?

Ack accuses me of not giving "credible" scenarios. The girl with perfect multitasking failing to find any way to use her bugs until some kids are pulling down her pants isn't credible.

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Something fanon misses about Taylor, she does NOT have perfect multitasking. Taylor has the ability to handle an unlimited number of seperate commands to her bugs, she's still very limited in the number of Tasks Taylor can handle. This is seen by how she can't hold two conversations at once, even though she's perfectly able to handle a dozen different bug clones. Taylor being too busy trying to escape to reason logically how to get a swarm that will:
1)Pose enough of a threat to chase off her attackers
2)Not reveal the fact she has powers to anyone observing
Additionally keep in mind how insanely tight control of her bugs Taylor held in her civilian life, refusing to use them for anything, her not thinking of using her bugs in one of the many useful ways that would not out her is canon, why would she suddenly change?

Well she's a child and they wanted to rape her sooooooooo...

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No, she's a minor, which is legally a child but NOT in any practical terms, especially not when it comes to sex or violence. When you say "child rape". or "child killer" people picture pre-pubescent children being the victims, this is used to increase the sensationalism around some crimes and twist the narrative, as you're trying to do here and it's disgusting.

So I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that, if she forgot something that important while planning over the course of several months, she could have overlooked something while trying to figure out a way to get away from a bunch of assholes over the space of a few blocks.

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Between Taylor not thinking of a name, or seemingly even think of the fact she needed one, Lisa's opinion on Taylor being suicidal, and the way Taylor decided to go off I'd put the lack of cellphone at more evidence of suicidal tendencies, not being forgetful.
Not that there's any reason to believe Taylor has perfect memory, or multi-tasking, so her overlooking options is certainly plausible.

 

[Ack]

That ^^^^ plus:

To answer your points:

1) Why did it take so long for her to get bugs to attack the boys?

Answer: It's right there in the text.

Up until then, I had been determined to let them have their prank and go on their way. Tying me up was worrisome, but I figured that once they were gone, I could get bugs to chew through the duct tape – at least, I hoped they could chew through the duct tape – and I could go home.

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It was only when she realised how far they were going to go that she started to panic. And it's not surprising that there weren't convenient nests of stinging/biting bugs just seconds away. Bugs take time to get anywhere.


2) How did they figure out she was a cape?

Answer: Also, right there in the text.

Shit, look at that!"

"Look at what? Fuck, this is too weird! Where'd all these bugs come from?"

"They're not attacking her! And those roaches are going for the duct tape!"

"The fuck?"

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Up until that point, Taylor had had her mind set on being a hero. Which meant keeping her powers a secret from everyone (ie, not being outed). So she held off using her powers at all until she realised that they were really needed. A miscalculation? Sure. She's fifteen, and she's had control of her powers for two weeks. A master of tactics, she ain't. She's never done a mass use of her powers before.

And she certainly didn't know that if she was knocked out, the last command would stay in effect.

Now, @Tricia , if you can give me a scenario where the result comes out roughly the same (Taylor injured but not mentally broken, hundreds dead, PRT alerted) without that particular threat ... I'm listening. But until you can, I'll use what I've got, thanks.

 

[Tricia]

Now, @Tricia , if you can give me a scenario where the result comes out roughly the same (Taylor injured but not mentally broken, hundreds dead, PRT alerted) without that particular threat ... I'm listening. But until you can, I'll use what I've got, thanks.

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They physically beat her. Body punches to make her unable to breathe and feel like dying. Still deeply unpleasant, still preferable to what you have written.

 

[Tricia]

No, she's a minor, which is legally a child but NOT in any practical terms, especially not when it comes to sex or violence. When you say "child rape". or "child killer" people picture pre-pubescent children being the victims, this is used to increase the sensationalism around some crimes and twist the narrative, as you're trying to do here and it's disgusting.
.

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"Practical terms."

Aren't you the same one who claimed that Vista , a thirteen-year-old, is only a not an adult from a "certain point of view?"

I'm honestly thinking I'm not the disgusting one here.

 

[Ellf]

I thought the point was she didn't get raped because of what she did, just that she was nearly so. Is it disturbing, disgusting, and horrifying? Absolutely, but that's the point. It's what got her into the mental state of "I need to get away, to hurt these people so I can get away." And then they knocked her out, and the bugs continued within her range.

I don't know if there's anything else that would have gotten her in the state of mind that would have caused this. Nor does it make sense for a set of teenage gangbangers to just beat up a girl.

 

[Ack]

They physically beat her. Body punches to make her unable to breathe and feel like dying. Still deeply unpleasant, still preferable to what you have written.

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She's been beaten. By Sophia. It's not a new sensation.

And why would they try/pretend to beat her to death? It's not like she's a credible opponent. Especially five on one.

"Practical terms."

Aren't you the same one who claimed that Vista , a thirteen-year-old, is only a not an adult from a "certain point of view?"

I'm honestly thinking I'm not the disgusting one here.

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Taylor is fifteen. In three months, in-story, she initiates an intimate relationship with Grue, of her own accord. At sixteen, she is legally and physically mature enough to do so.

And citation for what you claim @TheUnicorn said, please.

I thought the point was she didn't get raped because of what she did, just that she was nearly so. Is it disturbing, disgusting, and horrifying? Absolutely, but that's the point. It's what got her into the mental state of "I need to get away, to hurt these people so I can get away." And then they knocked her out, and the bugs continued within her range.

I don't know if there's anything else that would have gotten her in the state of mind that would have caused this. Nor does it make sense for a set of teenage gangbangers to just beat up a girl.

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Exactly and precisely.

 

[Tricia]

Nor does it make sense for a set of teenage gangbangers to just beat up a girl.

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Doesn't make any more sense for them to try and rape her.

Ack's comment:

"I've always thought that Sophia either didn't think it through or didn't care what happened to Taylor. I mean, what happens if a bunch of jocks from a school on the wrong side of the tracks get incited to chase down a loser loner who nobody ever listens to anyway? They catch her, they're all amped up from the chase. If there are no witnesses, things have a strong possibility of getting out of hand."

I'm going to go out on a limb and say what happens usually isn't them up and deciding to rape a random person. I mean "amped up?" "Strong possibility?"

There is rape culture. "What did she think would happen" is just dumb as shit.

"She's been beaten. By Sophia. It's not a new sensation.

And why would they try/pretend to beat her to death? It's not like she's a credible opponent. Especially five on one."

To feel powerful, just like any other bully. Mobs beat people no matter how one-sided the fight is. If you can come up with a reason for them to randomly decide to rape her but not for them to pummel her, I don't know what to say.

And there's a damn huge difference between getting kicked around off-handedly and getting battered by someone who knows what they're doing. I've sparred with a former lightweight boxing champion and even holding back, it was a uniquely miserable experience because he knew how to target the liver, solar plexus, and other areas to maximize pain. Taking that kind of punishment from someone not holding back and who has no guarantee of stopping? Nightmare. Grown athletes will fall down screaming and writhing from one good punch to the body.

EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot. You're asking me why guys would beat up a girl while talking about how Sophia beat her?

 

[Ellf]

Doesn't make any more sense for them to try and rape her.

Ack's comment:

"I've always thought that Sophia either didn't think it through or didn't care what happened to Taylor. I mean, what happens if a bunch of jocks from a school on the wrong side of the tracks get incited to chase down a loser loner who nobody ever listens to anyway? They catch her, they're all amped up from the chase. If there are no witnesses, things have a strong possibility of getting out of hand."

I'm going to go out on a limb and say what happens usually isn't them up and deciding to rape a random person. I mean "amped up?" "Strong possibility?"

There is rape culture. "What did she think would happen" is just dumb as shit.

"She's been beaten. By Sophia. It's not a new sensation.

And why would they try/pretend to beat her to death? It's not like she's a credible opponent. Especially five on one."

To feel powerful, just like any other bully. Mobs beat people no matter how one-sided the fight is. If you can come up with a reason for them to randomly decide to rape her but not for them to pummel her, I don't know what to say.

And there's a damn huge difference between getting kicked around off-handedly and getting battered by someone who knows what they're doing. I've sparred with a former lightweight boxing champion and even holding back, it was a uniquely miserable experience because he knew how to target the liver, solar plexus, and other areas to maximize pain. Taking that kind of punishment from someone not holding back and who has no guarantee of stopping? Nightmare. Grown athletes will fall down screaming and writhing from one good punch to the body.

EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot. You're asking me why guys would beat up a girl while talking about how Sophia beat her?

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They did beat her. Repeatedly. And she fought back. They took it as a personal insult. You have to remember, at Winslow, there's a slew of E88, ABB and Merchant wannabes. Some of them are even likely on the track team with Sophia, and while I sincerely doubt that the E88 people let a black girl incite them into chasing down whitey, the ABB and Merchants kinda have a bit of a reputation for what they do.

I find it more plausible that the kids from a gang school would try to emulate the gangs that pretty much run their school to begin with. Oh, and they did beat her in the story. They didn't rape her. They might have tried to, but then they got death by bug swarm.

Here's the problem as I see it. You see this as potentially disrespecting those who actually do suffer this sort of atrocity. Because that's what it is, isn't it? It's an atrocity. It's a horrifying experience that nobody should ever have to go through. But people do, and if we can't use that fact in literature, then it's potentially minimizing it.

This fic isn't glorifying the attempted rape. It's treating it as the horrifying act that it is and it's showing the mental state of a young girl who happens to have the ability to control bugs after the attempt. It's showing the deaths of the would-be rapists. It's showing the fact that the girl now has to deal with the fact that in addition to her would-be rapists, 259 more people are dead.

Again, is it a horrifying act? Absolutely. Is it being glorified in any way? No. It just happens to be a plot point. If you don't want to read the fic because of it, nobody will stop you from dropping it, but continuing this argument by going around and around in circles when you've said your piece seems pointless.

@Ack clearly doesn't see the beatings as enough to provoke that kind of reaction, and he handled this in a respectful, safe for work way.

 

[Ack]

Doesn't make any more sense for them to try and rape her.

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Really? A bunch of boys chase down a girl and get her helpless, without any witnesses around, and you're certain that nothing will happen? Especially when these boys are okay with bullying, and the girl is an unpopular loner geek freak who nobody ever believes anyway? And they're all high on adrenaline from the chase? Also, teenage boys. We're talking serious hormones here, as well as peer group pressure. Plus the whole risk-taking aspect of the developing juvenile mind. Not saying that most boys would do it, but these are boys who have agreed to bully someone on someone else's behalf.

Ack's comment:

"I've always thought that Sophia either didn't think it through or didn't care what happened to Taylor. I mean, what happens if a bunch of jocks from a school on the wrong side of the tracks get incited to chase down a loser loner who nobody ever listens to anyway? They catch her, they're all amped up from the chase. If there are no witnesses, things have a strong possibility of getting out of hand."

I'm going to go out on a limb and say what happens usually isn't them up and deciding to rape a random person. I mean "amped up?" "Strong possibility?"

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Usually? Yeah, maybe. In this case? A lot of the factors are pointing that way.

There is rape culture. "What did she think would happen" is just dumb as shit.

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Yes. There is. Sophia doesn't care what happens to Taylor.

"She's been beaten. By Sophia. It's not a new sensation.

And why would they try/pretend to beat her to death? It's not like she's a credible opponent. Especially five on one."

To feel powerful, just like any other bully. Mobs beat people no matter how one-sided the fight is. If you can come up with a reason for them to randomly decide to rape her but not for them to pummel her, I don't know what to say.

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She's a girl, alone, at their mercy, who they don't see as really being a 'person'. Also, high on adrenaline. They're not sociopaths, who would rather beat someone up rather than have sex. They're teenage boys, with hormones and adrenaline blasting through their bloodstreams.

If it was a boy they were chasing, sure, they might beat him up. With a girl, there's a whole different series of responses. Especially (and I can't believe I have to keep repeating this) one who is at their mercy and who is known to not be listened to. FFS, she's a tailor-made rape victim right there.

And there's a damn huge difference between getting kicked around off-handedly and getting battered by someone who knows what they're doing.

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Such as someone who's been an active vigilante, beating up thugs for the last few years? That sort of someone?

I've sparred with a former lightweight boxing champion and even holding back, it was a uniquely miserable experience because he knew how to target the liver, solar plexus, and other areas to maximize pain. Taking that kind of punishment from someone not holding back and who has no guarantee of stopping? Nightmare. Grown athletes will fall down screaming and writhing from one good punch to the body.

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Yes, but seriously, they have no reason to beat her. Beating someone is a means to render them helpless. Or a means to express hate. They don't hate her. They have no reason to. She's already helpless. She is literally no threat to them. If they were E88 and she was Jewish or black, sure, they'd kick her around. If they were ABB and she'd dissed one of them, then again, sure. But she's white, they're white, she's done nothing to them. The only reason they're even chasing her is because Sophia told them to. That's not enough reason to beat her. They've got nothing personal against her.

EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot. You're asking me why guys would beat up a girl while talking about how Sophia beat her?

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Because Sophia has a personal vendetta against her. Which anyone reading the story can see. She has made it her personal goal to keep Taylor Hebert down.

The boys chasing her? Don't have that personal problem with her.

They did beat her. Repeatedly. And she fought back. They took it as a personal insult. You have to remember, at Winslow, there's a slew of E88, ABB and Merchant wannabes. Some of them are even likely on the track team with Sophia, and while I sincerely doubt that the E88 people let a black girl incite them into chasing down whitey, the ABB and Merchants kinda have a bit of a reputation for what they do.

I find it more plausible that the kids from a gang school would try to emulate the gangs that pretty much run their school to begin with. Oh, and they did beat her in the story. They didn't rape her. They might have tried to, but then they got death by bug swarm.

Here's the problem as I see it. You see this as potentially disrespecting those who actually do suffer this sort of atrocity. Because that's what it is, isn't it? It's an atrocity. It's a horrifying experience that nobody should ever have to go through. But people do, and if we can't use that fact in literature, then it's potentially minimizing it.

This fic isn't glorifying the attempted rape. It's treating it as the horrifying act that it is and it's showing the mental state of a young girl who happens to have the ability to control bugs after the attempt. It's showing the deaths of the would-be rapists. It's showing the fact that the girl now has to deal with the fact that in addition to her would-be rapists, 259 more people are dead.

Again, is it a horrifying act? Absolutely. Is it being glorified in any way? No. It just happens to be a plot point. If you don't want to read the fic because of it, nobody will stop you from dropping it, but continuing this argument by going around and around in circles when you've said your piece seems pointless.

@Ack clearly doesn't see the beatings as enough to provoke that kind of reaction, and he handled this in a respectful, safe for work way.

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Exactly and precisely.

 

[Tricia]

"Such as someone who's been an active vigilante, beating up thugs for the last few years? That sort of someone?"

Attacking off-handedly at school, caring about at least minor plausible deniability, versus people actually cutting loose and who outweigh Sophia by quite a few pounds? Especially since at school, Taylor has assurance that Sophia won't kill her. No assurance here.

"Because Sophia has a personal vendetta against her. Which anyone reading the story can see. She has made it her personal goal to keep Taylor Hebert down.

The boys chasing her? Don't have that personal problem with her."

If you're wiling to diverge from canon enough to have the main character get raped, why are you treating everything else as sacrosanct?

Yes, but seriously, they have no reason to beat her. Beating someone is a means to render them helpless. Or a means to express hate. They don't hate her. They have no reason to. She's already helpless. She is literally no threat to them..

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So have you never seen people batter others just for the sake of doing it? Simply because they could? Because that happens. And it strikes me as way, way more plausible then "after a healthy run, I'm up for a good rapin'."

"They're not sociopaths, who would rather beat someone up rather than have sex."

This? This honestly disturbs me on multiple levels. Because calling attempted rape "having sex" is just all kinds of ick. The fact that you imply a sociopath would be willing to beat someone but not rape them is also profoundly bizarre and off-putting to me.

I am legitimately leaving now because you're digging yourself into a pit I really, really, really don't want to to follow you into.

 

[zeferin098]

It's rare to see a story where Taylor put on escalation mode at the start of the story. Is it bad that I wanna see her commit to going full warlord mode and not end up on the hero's side? I wanna see everyone quake in fear when they hear her name and it just wouldn't make the same impact if she turns into a hero. I hope this has regular updates. Good Work!

 

[TheUnicorn]

Aren't you the same one who claimed that Vista , a thirteen-year-old, is only a not an adult from a "certain point of view?"

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I don't recall making any such claim, I suspect you're again trying to twist things out of context to make things look more favorable to you, assuming you're not simply lying that is.

 

[Tricia]

I don't recall making any such claim, I suspect you're again trying to twist things out of context to make things look more favorable to you, assuming you're not simply lying that is.

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Bye.

 

[rudy]

Intriguing story; plausible setup to push Taylor to the brink.

Watched for sure!

 

[Railyn]

Between Taylor not thinking of a name, or seemingly even think of the fact she needed one, Lisa's opinion on Taylor being suicidal, and the way Taylor decided to go off I'd put the lack of cellphone at more evidence of suicidal tendencies, not being forgetful.

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Could be. I was more inclined to say 'forgetful' because her reaction upon realizing she didn't have a way to contact the Protectorate was something like, 'damn, I wish I'd done that. I'll make sure to fix that next time.'

Doesn't make any more sense for them to try and rape her.

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Humans don't make sense most of the time. Especially teenagers. I sure as hell made a lot of my problems in life worse when I was a teenager because I refused to approach them in ways that made sense. Honestly, if you're going to use that argument, it doesn't make sense for Sophia to send people after Taylor, or even for her to start bullying Taylor in the first place.

 

[TheUnicorn]

Bye.

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As I thought, you were twisting things out of context.

Here's the important part of that post:

Every culture and society has it's own view on what constitutes an "adult" and usually some rituals involved in taking responsibility for being/becoming one. From mainstream modern, western society's views a 12 y/o is a child no matter what they do or how they act, but that's just one POV, although I'll admit I generally prefer the modern western society's view of things to those of any historical society which would accept Vista as an adult.

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It's a fact that there were historical societies where a 12y/o might be considered an adult, you can consider that one of the things we've improved since then (I do) or not, but it doesn't change the fact they did exist.

 

[esotericist]

Still deeply unpleasant, still preferable to what you have written.

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I think this is the crux of the matter. "Preferable". The core of this is a preference of story content. Ack's preference is what he considers plausible. I agree with his appraisal that his selected narrative path is plausible and no other clearly plausible alternative is available. You disagree with him.

The degree to which you are running around in circles beyond this issue does not look to me like discussing in good faith.

Why are you fighting this so hard? What is your actual motivation here? Do you simply flat-out object to rape as subject matter in writing period?

 

[Fizzfaldt]

"They're not sociopaths, who would rather beat someone up rather than have sex."

This? This honestly disturbs me on multiple levels. Because calling attempted rape "having sex" is just all kinds of ick. The fact that you imply a sociopath would be willing to beat someone but not rape them is also profoundly bizarre and off-putting to me.

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First off, I agree, I am sickened by someone calling (attempted or not) rape "having sex".
However, I imagine (hope) @Ack meant it from the point of view of the attempted rapists.
There a bunch of studies that show far more men admit to rape... if you don't call it that.
In general, most rapists don't consider themselves to be rapists.
Similar to how earlier it was pointed out that they don't consider Taylor to be a "human/person". They feel entitled to (as they horrifyingly call it) "having a little fun".

Anyone who doesn't believe some jocks from frelling Winslow in Earth Bet would do such a thing, take a look at real life. It is horrible, but jocks in high school and college do this a whole lot, and that's even without being angry at a perceived slight (How dare Taylor have the temerity to make chasing her difficult, let alone elbowing one of them in the balls when they're "just" chasing her down, beating her up, and taping her to a telephone poll.).

I am trying my hardest to come up with something that does actually work as a replacement.. but like @Ack said, the proposals so far don't actually fit the plot.

Edit: Reworded a little bit and fixed some typos

 

[Ugolino]

I think this is the crux of the matter. "Preferable". The core of this is a preference of story content. Ack's preference is what he considers plausible. I agree with his appraisal that his selected narrative path is plausible and no other clearly plausible alternative is available. You disagree with him.

The degree to which you are running around in circles beyond this issue does not look to me like discussing in good faith.

Why are you fighting this so hard? What is your actual motivation here? Do you simply flat-out object to rape as subject matter in writing period?

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I think Tricia's stated reasoning is fairly clear and valid and an accusation of bad faith is completely meaningless in and of itself. It's a buzzword.

This doesn't seem like a good premise- or well-executed, and I suspect that the story'll end up on the chopping block sooner rather than later, especially given that the author's reasoning reads like rationalizations for what he wants to write happen or, if taken at face value, shows a fundamentally skewed view of "how people work".

Tricia's already explained the problems in depth, but I'll add in that it seems to be a tired, trite "rape as tragic backstory pushes character to powertrip and kill people" story that really isn't covering any new ground and epitomizes the worst cliches of Worm fandom. (Never mind that "people in stories that don't act or think like ways I can believe would happen with actual people" is one of my pet peeves and this sets off those alarm bells for me.)

To put it bluntly, as I understand things, Ack is writing "rape as backstory" when it isn't really necessary for his already cliched premise or makes for a better story, he hasn't written said use of rape very tastefully or with the tact it kinda needs to be, and what he's posted so far to defend it is either a bizarrely skewed view of How People Work, a justification of the tired and lazy cliche of "generic rape thugs" or- what I think is the case- a rationalization.

 

[Ack]

First off, I agree, I am sickened by someone calling (attempted or not) rape "having sex".
However, I imagine (hope) @Ack meant it from the point of view of the attempted rapists.

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That is correct. Rape is a power thing, not an attraction thing. It is never consensual from the victim's PoV, no matter how much the attacker might claim otherwise, and it is never, ever right.

There a bunch of studies that show far more men admit to rape... if you don't call it that.
In general, most rapists don't consider themselves to be rapists.
Similar to how earlier it was pointed out that they don't consider Taylor to be a "human/person". They feel entitled to (as they horrifyingly call it) "having a little fun".

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This surprises me not at all. Horrifying, yes. Surprising, no.

Anyone who doesn't believe some jocks from frelling Winslow in Earth Bet would do such a thing, take a look at real life. It is horrible, but jocks in high school and college do this a whole lot, and that's even without being angry at a perceived slight (How dare Taylor have the temerity to make chasing her difficult, let alone elbowing one of them in the balls when they're "just" chasing her down, beating her up, and taping her to a telephone poll.).

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Yeah. How dare she.

I am trying my hardest to come up with something that does actually work as a replacement.. but like @Ack said, the proposals so far don't actually fit the plot.

Edit: Reworded a little bit and fixed some typos

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Yup.

I think Tricia's stated reasoning is fairly clear and valid and an accusation of bad faith is completely meaningless in and of itself. It's a buzzword.

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Except where Tricia keeps ignoring canon or outright proposing OOC actions on the part of the characters. Or making claims about what other people on here have posted in order to belittle what we are writing.

This doesn't seem like a good premise- or well-executed, and I suspect that the story'll end up on the chopping block sooner rather than later,

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Pretty sure that's my option, not yours.

especially given that the author's reasoning reads like rationalizations for what he wants to write happen or, if taken at face value, shows a fundamentally skewed view of "how people work".

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Really. So no high school jock has ever raped a girl? Peer group pressure doesn't happen, especially among high school jocks? People don't do things they normally might not do when in the heat of the moment? Adrenaline highs never happen?

I find your statement both sweeping and inaccurate. I've considered the potential consequences for if the boys had caught Taylor for some time, and I personally believe that it could have gone quite badly if she didn't have powers. However, this gives me the option to use this as a plot point for a story beginning.

Tricia's already explained the problems in depth, but I'll add in that it seems to be a tired, trite "rape as tragic backstory pushes character to powertrip and kill people" story that really isn't covering any new ground and epitomizes the worst cliches of Worm fandom. (Never mind that "people in stories that don't act or think like ways I can believe would happen with actual people" is one of my pet peeves and this sets off those alarm bells for me.)

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I'm guessing that you never actually read the chapter.

She never got raped.

She doesn't powertrip.

The deaths happen when she's unconscious because she gets kicked in the head.

She never actually intended for anyone to die. This is specifically outlined in her thought process.

To put it bluntly, as I understand things, Ack is writing "rape as backstory" when it isn't really necessary for his already cliched premise or makes for a better story, he hasn't written said use of rape very tastefully or with the tact it kinda needs to be, and what he's posted so far to defend it is either a bizarrely skewed view of How People Work, a justification of the tired and lazy cliche of "generic rape thugs" or- what I think is the case- a rationalization.

Click to shrink...

It's not rape, it's attempted rape. It is, however, a situation where she is terrified enough by the prospect to push her power to its limit, then is knocked unconscious so that the 'attack' command tragically keeps going, thus killing a couple of hundred people.

Tell you what; when you've actually read it, and you're willing to discuss what actually happened in the story, rather than what you seem to think I wrote, get back to me and we'll chat.

 

[Ugolino]

That is correct. Rape is a power thing, not an attraction thing. It is never consensual from the victim's PoV, no matter how much the attacker might claim otherwise, and it is never, ever right.

This surprises me not at all. Horrifying, yes. Surprising, no.


Yeah. How dare she.

Yup.


Except where Tricia keeps ignoring canon or outright proposing OOC actions on the part of the characters. Or making claims about what other people on here have posted in order to belittle what we are writing.


Pretty sure that's my option, not yours.


Really. So no high school jock has ever raped a girl? Peer group pressure doesn't happen, especially among high school jocks? People don't do things they normally might not do when in the heat of the moment? Adrenaline highs never happen?

I find your statement both sweeping and inaccurate. I've considered the potential consequences for if the boys had caught Taylor for some time, and I personally believe that it could have gone quite badly if she didn't have powers. However, this gives me the option to use this as a plot point for a story beginning.


I'm guessing that you never actually read the chapter.

She never got raped.

She doesn't powertrip.

The deaths happen when she's unconscious because she gets kicked in the head.

She never actually intended for anyone to die. This is specifically outlined in her thought process.


It's not rape, it's attempted rape. It is, however, a situation where she is terrified enough by the prospect to push her power to its limit, then is knocked unconscious so that the 'attack' command tragically keeps going, thus killing a couple of hundred people.

Tell you what; when you've actually read it, and you're willing to discuss what actually happened in the story, rather than what you seem to think I wrote, get back to me and we'll chat.

Click to shrink...

"It's just attempted rape" is irrelevant to "HURR DURR RAPE THUGS THAT WANT TO RAPE BECAUSE THEY EXIST TO RAPE RAPE RAPE" which is what your story premise boils down to (though with the level of writing in canon worm, I guess superficial, contrived, cliches are entirely consistent with the source material's quality) and if you think you're the first person to ever write shitty fanfiction with that as a starting point, you clearly haven't read much of it. Your 'characters" and that scene exist solely because you wanted to write a rape scene and warped the plot into knots to justify it when it boils down to a pointless and tasteless irrelevancy to your desired outcome of "character kills people but it's totally okay" and any consideration on your part doesn't make this scene read as any less contrived and pointless.

And frankly, Tricia's alternatives both make more sense and are an improvement on what you actually wrote, which boils down to "I want to write a rape scene, come hell or high water".

Character used powers to kill people because >insert justification here, which really has no reason whatsoever to be rape and which comes over as both superficial and contrived. I don't see any distinction worth making here.

Fortunately, I've said my piece and the next time I'll be reading this story is the inevitable "why the shit didn't you people report this creepy nonsense a long time ago" JakeCrown style intervention down the road.

 

[CinnabarSage]

A person is allowed an opinion. Hell, there even allowed to voice it to others. But, speaking it more than once implies you don't think we heard you or you don't intend to allow others to have their own. either way is unfriendly and demeaning.

►Winged_One
Replied On Sep 23rd 2010:
@XxVoid_CowboyxX @SuperBlaster While your tenacity could be seen as admirable, this is not the place for it or your arguments. There is a board perfectly usable for this, and if that isn't enough we have the miracle of PM's available. Cut it out, you two!

Click to shrink...

 

[Blackhole1]

*Reads thread*

Protip for the writer: take a break from the thread and write another chapter. Rape (attempted or otherwise) is a sensitive subject with very strong emotional connotations. Its hard to have a calm and reasonable debate about it and if you keep trying, you'll eventually get turned off the story because you don't want to deal with arguments that go nowhere because we're too emotionally invested in our viewpoints. My suggestion? Publish another chapter soonish so the debate can move away from the rape issue and keep this story from being stranded.

As for everyone else: not to be insensitive, but could we argue about something else? I mean, this discussion has been going on for three pages. Every point that could have been made about rape has been made by now and we're just arguing in circles. Maybe we should all just agree to disagree and talk about something else before things stop being civil.

 

[CinnabarSage]

armsmaster comically said the Foam was for him and velocity... thoughts on him taking skitter more seriously and how her naive interaction with him and the dissonance of the two actions must seem to him

CinnabarSage threw 1 2-faced dice. Reason: Roll for Relevance Total: 1