Price of Blood [Worm fanfic] (Complete)

If that's the case, and people can take full responsibility for the consequences of their own actions... why is it so unreasonable to formally lay out the consequences for certain irresponsible or antisocial acts, then enforce them as written?
Because getting people to so universally agree on the premise that revealing a cape's identity is "irresponsible and antisocial", to the extent that they would go along with such a law against over two hundred years of precedent, is not something that can be done in Contessa's spare time in twenty-nine years.

And, for that matter, if she had they wouldn't need to threaten Carol.
 
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Because getting people to so universally agree on the premise that revealing a cape's identity is "irresponsible and antisocial", to the extent that they would go along with such a law against over two hundred years of precedent, is not something that can be done in Contessa's spare time in twenty-nine years.

And, for that matter, if she had they wouldn't need to threaten Carol.

Exactly! That's exactly why the story feels off to me! Every country has cultural berserk buttons, and if you press them, you get violent uprisings. I have no doubt Contessa could make those changes if she put in enough work, her power really is that bullshit -- but either she wouldn't be doing much else, or she'd have a body count to rival Joseph Stalin and make the Slaughterhouse Nine look like total amateurs. Either way, the result would not look like Worm, it would look completely alien, not 'USA with superpowers'.
 
Okay.

Let me say this one more time.

SUPERPOWERS ARE A GAME CHANGER.

There is nothing even remotely similar to super-powers in today's society. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. We don't have men who can fly and emit lasers that can turn corners and freeze water into a block of ice. We don't have women who can juggle main battle tanks for light exercise. We don't--and pay attention, because this part is important--have people who quite literally cannot be replaced in what they can do.

We don't.

It's that simple.

The President of the United States is one of the most important men on Earth, and he's eminently replaceable. In fact, he's up for replacement every four years. Sooner than that for Trump, God willing.

You might say 'scientists are irreplaceable'. Actually, no. Science is teachable, and new scientists, new doctors, new specialists in every field known to mankind are coming along every single day.

But suppose Superman existed (as the only superhero on Earth) and he did his best to make life better on Earth, and he succeeded ... until he got outed, and went into hiding. Who would replace him? Who could replace him? Nobody, that's who. There's nobody on Earth who could do one percent of what he could do on a lazy afternoon.

Now, assume that there's a whole army of superheroes who are employed by the United States, each of whom is an equally irreplaceable resource in and of him (or her) self. But the quickest way to screw them over is to unmask them. How fast would the government put into place legislation to protect their investment, their employees, their unique and individual powerhouses?

Answer: pretty damn fast.

Because superheroes need secret identities. Seventy years of comic books have carved that into the bedrock of pop culture in letters fifty feet high. There is absolutely no denying it. Superheroes whose loved ones don't have powers are uniquely vulnerable, so the government would work to ensure that this vulnerability never got exposed. No judge in the world would actually deny the logic of this.

Likewise, while non-government heroes aren't working directly for them, it's relatively easy to give them a distinct incentive to be a hero by putting in place a powerful incentive for people not to try to unmask them. Joe Bloggs the burglar may unmask Captain Hero in a struggle, but if he outs him, he risks being tried for domestic terrorism. So it's not worth it.

Now, as I said in the chapter, this did not sail through unopposed. There were several court challenges to the 'unconstitutionality' of it. However, given that superheroes were and are a fact of everyday life in Earth Bet, they failed every time. All it requires is for the members of the jury to have been saved in any way, any time by a hero. Or for their loved ones or friends to have been saved in the same way.

The Vikare Act can and would take place in an Earth with powers.

Now can we just fucking drop this pointless argument?
 
I think it has creeped up in nearly every of your stories at least once. It sure feels so. Sorry? (I did not do anything?)
 
Eh. If the law exists it exists. Not use why you need to justify it. Stupid laws get passed all the time. So do illegal ones. And unconstitutional ones. It doesn't matter what law you create, if it doesn't break suspension of disbelief it's fine.

As for suspension of disbelief. Some hints in earlier chapters about its existence instead of a sudden info dump might help deal with that issue.
 
Exactly! That's exactly why the story feels off to me! Every country has cultural berserk buttons, and if you press them, you get violent uprisings. I have no doubt Contessa could make those changes if she put in enough work, her power really is that bullshit -- but either she wouldn't be doing much else, or she'd have a body count to rival Joseph Stalin and make the Slaughterhouse Nine look like total amateurs. Either way, the result would not look like Worm, it would look completely alien, not 'USA with superpowers'.
"Cultural berserk buttons" my ass.

I call bullshit.

Anyone can normalise anything.
 
What has? The Vikare Act? Or pointless arguments over something that's only a tangential aspect of the plot?
Pointless arguments over shit with maybe tangential relation to the plot is part and parcel the whole fanfic gig. I'd be more worried if people didn't get into stupid arguments over a work, because that tells me they don't care enough to form an opinion.
 
Eh. If the law exists it exists. Not use why you need to justify it. Stupid laws get passed all the time. So do illegal ones. And unconstitutional ones. It doesn't matter what law you create, if it doesn't break suspension of disbelief it's fine.

As for suspension of disbelief. Some hints in earlier chapters about its existence instead of a sudden info dump might help deal with that issue.
Like in the previous chapter about not saying anything until she got informed of the full details?

Up until this point, it was never an issue.
 
Pointless arguments over shit with maybe tangential relation to the plot is part and parcel the whole fanfic gig. I'd be more worried if people didn't get into stupid arguments over a work, because that tells me they don't care enough to form an opinion.
It's when they argue back at the author regarding the reasoning behind something that irritates me.
 
Oh for doG's sake! Hey Ack if you want to boilerplate what I posted after I, y'know, read the First Amendment, feel free. Specifically the link I posted.

#bottleofaspirin#
 
What has? The Vikare Act? Or pointless arguments over something that's only a tangential aspect of the plot?

I'd say mostly the latter, but I've never had issues with your stories to argue for or against them. Right now, I'm just waiting before I even decide to argue about it, let alone point out any serious flaws I could see.

It's when they argue back at the author regarding the reasoning behind something that irritates me.

I totally understand that and that's when things can get out of hand where people just want to be right instead of what is right
 
Oh for doG's sake! Hey Ack if you want to boilerplate what I posted after I, y'know, read the First Amendment, feel free. Specifically the link I posted.

#bottleofaspirin#
Good idea. I think I will.

I think this last bit should have been typed in the biggest font you could possiby type it in. And then bolded. And then underlined. And then used as proof that Wildbow Did Not Do The Research.

Also, don't know if this link is posted but: First Amendment . In particular, look up what it says about 'Prior Restraint'. That could easily be modified to protect secret identities. Heck, you could just about apply it to secret IDs as is.

Here we have actual legal precedent for what went into the Vikare Act. Already part of the laws of the United States.

Let me repeat that for the hard of understanding.

THE VIKARE ACT IS BASED ON ACTUAL LEGAL PRECEDENT.

So please read the actual laws before frothing on about "this would never happen". Because. It. Already. Has.
 
So please read the actual laws before frothing on about "this would never happen". Because. It. Already. Has.
Ack, this won't help so just give up on getting people to stop arguing with you about this.

I get that you want to keep arguing until you convince everyone, but this is the sort of subject that if you got a US supreme court judge to pop in and say he liked your story and the legal reasoning worked...it STILL won't change people's opinion.

Past a certain point you need to either drop the argument or drop the thread, given that it's your thread you can just ban the argument.
 
Boiks, I don't normally post (out of fear) but can we please drop the issue, I rather like this fic and would rather not chase away the author because some one decided to be a nick picking ninny, I'm sure there are other threads that you can go too that lets you talk about this stuff.
 
Ack, this won't help so just give up on getting people to stop arguing with you about this.

I get that you want to keep arguing until you convince everyone, but this is the sort of subject that if you got a US supreme court judge to pop in and say he liked your story and the legal reasoning worked...it STILL won't change people's opinion.

Past a certain point you need to either drop the argument or drop the thread, given that it's your thread you can just ban the argument.

Boiks, I don't normally post (out of fear) but can we please drop the issue, I rather like this fic and would rather not chase away the author because some one decided to be a nick picking ninny, I'm sure there are other threads that you can go too that lets you talk about this stuff.
Good points.

Argue all you like about this. Just not on this thread.

Thank you.
 
I'm sorry, but we're all dodging the really hard-hitting question, here: How, precisely, does one pronounce "Vikare?" And, as a follow-up, after whom is it named, and why?
 
I'm sorry, but we're all dodging the really hard-hitting question, here: How, precisely, does one pronounce "Vikare?" And, as a follow-up, after whom is it named, and why?
I think it was the first hero in the Worm setting that died, if I'm remembering correctly. I pronounce it like the first two syllables of 'vicarious'.
 
I'm sorry, but we're all dodging the really hard-hitting question, here: How, precisely, does one pronounce "Vikare?" And, as a follow-up, after whom is it named, and why?

I've been thinking of it as 'vick-air.'

I assume Vikare is probably a superhero it's named after, in the sense of 'what happened to Vikare was terrible, and here's this law to prevent it happening to other Heroes.'
 
That rather depends on the person, and the belief. Like, someone who seriously thinks that they're going to hell would probably be happy and relieved that their actually going to heaven, though in most cases, they'd be less relieved to find out that there's no afterlife at all (whether there is one or not, or what kind there is if it exists, is irrelevant to this post, I just needed an understandable example).

I do agree that most people would not, although in many cases, the reaction tends to be denial with a side of anger, and probably violence if they think it's an option.
 
I'm sorry, but we're all dodging the really hard-hitting question, here: How, precisely, does one pronounce "Vikare?" And, as a follow-up, after whom is it named, and why?

I've been thinking of it as 'vick-air.'

I assume Vikare is probably a superhero it's named after, in the sense of 'what happened to Vikare was terrible, and here's this law to prevent it happening to other Heroes.'
Yes, it's named in honour of the first costumed hero. However, it's not about what happened to him (killed after being hit on the head while trying to quell a sports riot) but what he stood for: the right of parahumans to help others while concealing their identities.

There are no canonical examples of capes (that I recall) being attacked after being outed by their enemies (heroes, anyway). Marquis is a villain, so the Act doesn't cover him, and Fleur had deliberately unmasked along with the rest of New Wave, so she wasn't covered either.
That rather depends on the person, and the belief. Like, someone who seriously thinks that they're going to hell would probably be happy and relieved that their actually going to heaven, though in most cases, they'd be less relieved to find out that there's no afterlife at all (whether there is one or not, or what kind there is if it exists, is irrelevant to this post, I just needed an understandable example).

I do agree that most people would not, although in many cases, the reaction tends to be denial with a side of anger, and probably violence if they think it's an option.
Yup.
 
With that topic nicely banned, what Carol did to Amy is parental abandonment. Will she get called on that? Because as her legal guardian... that's not okay.
No, it's not parental abandonment. Dropping a child at a government agency dealing with children, or the local police station (or other LEO office) is what the government encourages parents who figure they can't deal with their children to do. They don't punish parents for this, although if the parent comes to their attention otherwise they're quite capable of using that as evidence the parent isn't competent to care for any children. It would also be absolutely HORRIBLE PR for New Wave if that's revealed (even ignoring that the child given to the PRT was Panacea), but it's not illegal.

Edit:It appears I was wrong about that, which is weird and defeats the purpose of safe haven laws, but okay.
 
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No, it's not parental abandonment. Dropping a child at a government agency dealing with children, or the local police station (or other LEO office) is what the government encourages parents who figure they can't deal with their children to do. They don't punish parents for this, although if the parent comes to their attention otherwise they're quite capable of using that as evidence the parent isn't competent to care for any children. It would also be absolutely HORRIBLE PR for New Wave if that's revealed (even ignoring that the child given to the PRT was Panacea), but it's not illegal.

That really depends on if the statutes are written in a way that treats the Wards like a foster care agency. There's no indication that's the case in canon and some indication that it isn't (with Sophia's mom and Vista's parents), though of course it's never explicitly stated that it isn't. You can't just abandon your kid at any government agency that deals with kids. If you try that at a Board of Education facility for example, you'll just get arrested. So yeah. I suppose the decision about whether Carol is getting into Legal trouble or not depends on 1. whether Ack decides that the PRT can work like a foster agency in that respect or not, and 2. Whether they believe that Carol is actually abandoning Amy.

She's likely to get in publicity trouble either way if it gets out.
 
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