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[X] Quasi stealth system
Petals of Titanium -- My Life as a Mecha Setting Bridge Bunny Quest
- Thread starter Gazetteer
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I'm worried about more "pick who dies" choices as a result of engagements, and I think I trust shields more than stealth for giving us better options. I like the idea that we are slippery and hard to target, but that's a trick that gets played at the start of a fight; I want a trick that'll carry us through the end.
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Ergh. Hard to decide between +Shields and +Stealth.
+Stealth sounds nifty and fun, but... the Titanium Rose's general attitude towards operation so far has been less about careful approaches and more like a beat cop stumbling into a drug den, shouting "HEY, YOU!" and ending up in a shootout.
+Shields would help with that a lot, and would be easier than trying to teach Mazlo and Grayson the fine art of subtlety. Amani... is also not very subtle, come to think of it. I think Anja and possibly Captain Andre might be the only people on the ship with a sense of discretion? Stealth might be best left to crews with actual talent for it.
[X] Cutting edge shield technology
+Stealth sounds nifty and fun, but... the Titanium Rose's general attitude towards operation so far has been less about careful approaches and more like a beat cop stumbling into a drug den, shouting "HEY, YOU!" and ending up in a shootout.
+Shields would help with that a lot, and would be easier than trying to teach Mazlo and Grayson the fine art of subtlety. Amani... is also not very subtle, come to think of it. I think Anja and possibly Captain Andre might be the only people on the ship with a sense of discretion? Stealth might be best left to crews with actual talent for it.
[X] Cutting edge shield technology
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
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[X] Cutting edge shield technology
UrsaTempest
Don't Panic!
A convincing argument.
[X] Cutting edge shield technology
[X] Cutting edge shield technology
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From an in-universe perspective, stealth is what makes most sense.
The Rose was built for independent reconnaissance, and being able to get closer to the enemy without them noticing fits that to a T. If I was the admiral making the choice of equipping it with a new system during refit, that's what I would pick based on that class' role and current capabilities.
The Rose was built for independent reconnaissance, and being able to get closer to the enemy without them noticing fits that to a T. If I was the admiral making the choice of equipping it with a new system during refit, that's what I would pick based on that class' role and current capabilities.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
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[X] Quasi stealth system
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
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On the other hand, while the ship may have been intended to do that ,it's not what it's actually been doing so far. That's mostly being shot at and shooting at things.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if any given Admiral wouldn't deem the Rose as cursed. It sure has a habit of being around where-ever the action is.
(an unfortunate side-effect of having MCs on board)
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To an extent? We are rapidly shifting scenarios though, from 'need picket ships to lurk on the fringes and let us know what the enemy is doing' to 'OMG grab anything with a gun and throw it into the battle line'. I think a quasi-stealth upgrade will be perfect AFTER we survive the coming fleet action, where we are much more likely to be called on as a poor-man's frigate than an expensive scout.
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Gazetteer
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Although, the quasi stealth system would be something that makes it harder to get a decent firing solution on the Rose as well and could make it harder to hit even in a pitched battle -- none of these options will be useless in the immediate scenario.
It's going to do shit all if someone eventually does land a shot, though.
It's going to do shit all if someone eventually does land a shot, though.
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That's the trade-off - get hit less but have less protection, or get hit more but have more protection to soak it.
The exact trade-off can only be determined by a numerical analysis, but the difference is that the stealth is useful during battle, and outside of it, whereas the shield only does useful work when its getting shot at.
The stealth system gives the Rose more utility overall.
Plus, with less defense platforms available, figuring out where the enemy is coming from and their composition is going to be even more important in order to make the best use out of the platforms we have, so I could see scouting playing a very important role even in a defensive battle like this.
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For the ship, yes, that makes sense.
For the crew? Well... YOU try telling Perbeck she can't take all the mechs out on an extended patrol, because the Rose is trying to keep a low profile. I'll wait over here.
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I'm not sure that follows? The enemy will know there's something in the area, but that doen't mean they'll know where the Rose is.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
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The ship's not invisible. Once they spot a few mech's appearing out of nowhere, they'll focus scans and will probably pick it up.
Or they could simply follow them home.
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Hmmm, @Gazetteer, could you give us some details on the stealth systems? I don't want to enter a speculation spiral.
It's true the stealth upgrade won't make the Titanium Rose invisible. It's not some sci-fi cloaking device, like the Night Lily's full suite of technology. But making the target harder to track and identify is exactly what real stealth is about, and it does improve both offensive capability and survivability. Stealth doesn't have to be perfect to pay dividends: it's worth it for real world fighters such as the Eurofighter Typhoon take measures to reduce their radar cross-section, and retrofits such as the proposed F-15SE Silent Eagle have been seriously considered. Even large warships have adopted stealth technology. Armor (or shielding in sci-fi) is nice, but not taking the hit in the first place is better.
With less information on the Titanium Rose, the enemy will be less effective. They may be forced to play safe, or underestimate us, or even overlook the threat we pose. For example, in the Titanium Rose's first contact with the enemy:
The shield upgrade would give us thicker skin, but ultimately they still suffer from the same limitations all shields do:
The stealth upgrade offers a comparative advantage the enemy can't match.
A shield upgrade won't make the Titanium Rose suitable for a slugging match. It's not a ship of the line. It's not even a Metallic-class frigate, one of the other original ship options. We chose a Ranger-class heavy reconnaissance craft, and we should play to our strengths.
Indeed, if we're better shielded, we'll probably be expected to put that shielding to use, both from our commanders' perspective and from a narrative point of view. Stealth, on the other hand, lends itself to missions that don't necessarily involve getting pounded.
Sensor data has already played a key role in every engagement. (Of course, part of this is probably due to the fact that our protagonist Amani is a sensor tech.)
With less information on the Titanium Rose, the enemy will be less effective. They may be forced to play safe, or underestimate us, or even overlook the threat we pose. For example, in the Titanium Rose's first contact with the enemy:
The shield upgrade would give us thicker skin, but ultimately they still suffer from the same limitations all shields do:
The stealth upgrade offers a comparative advantage the enemy can't match.
A shield upgrade won't make the Titanium Rose suitable for a slugging match. It's not a ship of the line. It's not even a Metallic-class frigate, one of the other original ship options. We chose a Ranger-class heavy reconnaissance craft, and we should play to our strengths.
Better shields for the Titanium Rose wouldn't have saved Ito, or Song. It won't save Perbeck or J6.
Indeed, if we're better shielded, we'll probably be expected to put that shielding to use, both from our commanders' perspective and from a narrative point of view. Stealth, on the other hand, lends itself to missions that don't necessarily involve getting pounded.
Being more stealthy won't stop the Titanium Rose from employing mechs. Mechs are still far smaller and sneakier than a full-size ship, after all, even one with some stealth upgrades. If anything, stealth might make it easier for the Titanium Rose to support its mechs.
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Gazetteer
Alleged poisoner
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Essentially, it fucks around with detectable heat emissions and releases interference that makes it slower and harder for convention scans suites to figure out what the ship is and precisely where it is/where it's going. Allies can be sent data from the ship to make sure they don't get similarly confused.
An enemy can tell that something is there and emitting heat regardless, but it would become much slipperyer beyond that.
To be clear, the Lily isn't invisible visually, just to scans. Which is the same thing in space unless you're really in spitting distance.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
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What I'm getting from this is that all it does is obfuscate our identity. It doesn't appear to actually provide any meaningfull defensive value.
((Well, not being able to pinpoint the direction exactly makes long range shots hard, but most combat appears to take place at close range, where that advantage will be neglible)). For the most part though, mechs and missiles should be able to self correct and aim at us even if they don't recognize exactly what we are.
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Shields:
Block beam and fast kinetics that can't be engaged by point defense.
Stealth:
Makes it harder to hit the ship with beams and fast kinetics that can't be engaged with point defense.
In a basic combat scenario, their effectiveness is likely comparable overall, but stealth will give us more leeway in terms of dictating the terms of engagement by letting us close in or disengage fast.
The defensive benefits arise exactly from making it harder for the enemy to tell where were area/where we're going.
Block beam and fast kinetics that can't be engaged by point defense.
Stealth:
Makes it harder to hit the ship with beams and fast kinetics that can't be engaged with point defense.
In a basic combat scenario, their effectiveness is likely comparable overall, but stealth will give us more leeway in terms of dictating the terms of engagement by letting us close in or disengage fast.
The defensive benefits arise exactly from making it harder for the enemy to tell where were area/where we're going.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
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Problem is that the speed of light, and the speed of fast kinetics is so big that the effect of the stealth will be negligible at all but the most extreme ranges.
My point is, the Stealth is not a shield. You're not getting 2 benefits for the price of 1. If you want defense, you need the shield. If you want stealth, you pick stealth.
But don't pick stealth believing that it's somehow going to be just as good defensively as the shield, with stealth as a bonus on top.
My point is, the Stealth is not a shield. You're not getting 2 benefits for the price of 1. If you want defense, you need the shield. If you want stealth, you pick stealth.
But don't pick stealth believing that it's somehow going to be just as good defensively as the shield, with stealth as a bonus on top.
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Gazetteer
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Firing ship weapons without knowing precisely where you're shooting and whether it's going to hit something is something that is generally pretty irresponsible and dangerous.
If weapons officer had won most of your job would have been math, even more than Amani's which has a substantial element of interpretation.
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That's the thing, their velocity doen't matter if they can't get a target lock. That's what stealth does. Make it likelier to miss because their targeting sensors can't predict where we'll be.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
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So, it is a feasible defensive system.
Well, I suppose we should pick that then, if it's strictly superior over the other options.