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PC Builds Megathread

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Kitsune said:
What I mean is the M.2 slot on the motherboard is a Gen 2 x4 since it is an old motherboard
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Ah, okay. Yeah, that's to be expected with a mainboard that old.

Doesn't matter - all NVMe SSDs are backwards compatible, so that's not an issue. The maximum sequential transfer speed should not be the primary metric you look at when choosing an SSD, so my recommendation still stands.
 
I tried to do some Google searching and cannot find what looks like good answers.
I saw a cheap Chromebox with an 8th Gen i7 processor.
Reading discussions of the device, people have replaced the tiny 2242 SSD with 32 GB with 2280 SSD with 512 GB.
What I have read is that you cannot replace the original OS with Windows 10/11.
Does someone understand why you cannot simply replace the SSD with the larger one and install windows?
I am not saying it is possible, just don't understand the why since it is an i7 machine at its heart?
 
Kitsune said:
I tried to do some Google searching and cannot find what looks like good answers.
I saw a cheap Chromebox with an 8th Gen i7 processor.
Reading discussions of the device, people have replaced the tiny 2242 SSD with 32 GB with 2280 SSD with 512 GB.
What I have read is that you cannot replace the original OS with Windows 10/11.
Does someone understand why you cannot simply replace the SSD with the larger one and install windows?
I am not saying it is possible, just don't understand the why since it is an i7 machine at its heart?
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Some of the ChromeOS machines don't have a full UEFI implementation. They're able to load Linux, but don't provide the necessary services for NTLDR to make sense of the machine.
 
This is all discussion of older hardware. Just kind of a trivia item but can matter in some cases. I like to tinker with stuff.

In the house there was an old Asus CM6850 that one of my roommates was given. Has a i7-2600 CPU. It uses a stripped down version of the P8H67-M PRO motherboard. It is a standard mATX motherboard. Uses a standard power supply as well. Bought a cheap 512 GB SSD and wireless card and got the computer working again.

As well there was an old Ultra brand aluminum PC cases from my other roommate that had real dinosaur components in it. Talking Pentium-D or older components. Case was filthy as well. Cleaned up well though after I took it down to its parts. Dated by today's standard with no back area for cabling but still a nice case if you can work around that issue.

Decided to move the components into the CM6850 into the Ultra case and did not have many issues.

Makes me curious about something though, when did various computer manufacturers switch over to proprietary hardware for desktops? When, for example, were you unable to move a Dell or HP (or other companies) to a standard case or use a standard motherboard in one or their cases. When did they switch over to have to use their power supplies?
 
I have a question to do with windows licensing?

I have an older computer with an FX-8350 CPU. Not my primary computer but almost a toy. I found a really good deal on a AM3+ motherboard that uses an M2 storage and decided to change out the motherboard. The old board was an Asus and the new one is an Asrock. An M.2 drive is quite a bit faster than a normal SSD.

When I pulled the CPU from the board, I realized it had a few bent pins. Might have been like that for years because it has had issues addressing some of its RAM. I have successfully straightened pins before. Unfortunately this time I broke a pin.

May have been a waste but I ordered a replacement FX-8350 CPU from eBay. Had an issues with the first M.2 I purchased and I needed to return it and ordered a replacement. The replacement works fine.

This means the hardware that I changed includes the motherboard, CPU (even if the same model), and storage. Some of the ram was the same but I added an addition 16 GB of ram for 32 GB of ram. I also retained the graphic card, a GTX 1070 which replaced a GTX 980 when I ended up getting an extra GTX 1070.

Started installing Windows 10 Pro. No activation key so I skipped through that. I figured that I would need to transfer the Windows 10 Pro "key" from my original hardware. Instead once it was all installed, I checked activation status and it was already activated?

What is your Windows activation tied to? Was there already a Windows 10 activation tied to the motherboard? If so, I thought it would still not work because it would be a different CPU? I thought that Windows 10 was tied to the Motherboard CPU combo? There does also appear to be a computer on my Microsoft account that I think was the previous build.
 
Kitsune said:
What is your Windows activation tied to?
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'Your computer', defined through a process that Microsoft doesn't really make public for obvious reasons. The point is, you're supposed to be able to change your hardware a little without Windows freaking out.

Kitsune said:
Instead once it was all installed, I checked activation status and it was already activated?
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Presumably you have a microsoft account and logged in with that? Because in that case, the key was written to your account and the last hardware configuration it was assigned to was saved. Now you reinstalled with a hardware selection that reads as 'mostly still the same computer', so it recognized that as 'your computer' and gave it the license.
 
steamrick said:
Presumably you have a microsoft account and logged in with that? Because in that case, the key was written to your account and the last hardware configuration it was assigned to was saved. Now you reinstalled with a hardware selection that reads as 'mostly still the same computer', so it recognized that as 'your computer' and gave it the license.
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I don't think it did that because one of the computers on my list is a Windows 10 pro machine with 12 GB of ram.
While I cannot be 100% sure, I think that is the original fx-8350 machine.

I was discussing this on another board. A small one that is almost private by its size.
One of the people recently build a new machine with a new motherboard, CPU, M.2, and GPU.
Said that the computer still automatically activated.

Nothing to complain about, just kind of curious.
 
Eh, then I dunno.
It might be that at this point Microsoft only cares about keeping their consumer OS market share so they can monetize you on cloud subscriptions, Bing default search engine ads and Windows Store revenue share.
 
steamrick said:
Eh, then I dunno.
It might be that at this point Microsoft only cares about keeping their consumer OS market share so they can monetize you on cloud subscriptions, Bing default search engine ads and Windows Store revenue share.
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My thoughts with the system is that maybe the motherboard already had and activated copy of Windows 10 Pro. The FX 8350 appears to be the most common AM3+ processor. It is the most commonly tested AM3+ CPU here. No other FX series CPU is even on their list of most tested. Having one of the later AM3+ boards paired with an FX-8350 would make sense.

I also found that while you can get the serial number from the motherboard via a command line using the command prompt, there does not seem to be something similar with the CPU. Microsoft may not have a way to tell one FX-8350 from another FX-8350 by scanning it.
 
Kitsune said:
I also found that while you can get the serial number from the motherboard via a command line using the command prompt, there does not seem to be something similar with the CPU. Microsoft may not have a way to tell one FX-8350 from another FX-8350 by scanning it.
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I wouldn't count on it. Windows does a lot with .net these days, a fair amount of which was never implemented for command prompt.

You can tell that you're really getting into the weeds when your powershell script starts using .net objects in the middle.
(Powershell is basically the easy way of interacting with .net.
Example: "Get-Process" is the exact same thing as "[diagnostics.process]::GetProcesses()" except that get-process also sorts the output alphabetically, which "[diagnostics.process]::GetProcesses() | sort-object name" would also achieve.)

That said... yeah, I have no idea if they can or cannot identify a specific CPU nor how you'd try and go about it in specific.

(addendum: apparently, CPUs no longer broadcast their serial number to the host system, so you have to look at the box the CPU came in... Is there any way to get Batch and Serial number of Intel Processor? - Windows 10 Help Forums )
 
When I built a PC with no reused parts last year Windows activated for seemingly no reason at all. My only guess is that there was a key on my account from an old laptop I had for a few days before returning as defective but that still doesn't make much sense.
 
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I am curious about something
I recently build one of my roommate a computer with a Ryzen 7 5800x3d cpu.
They bought all the components but I did the work.
They are currently using a RX 480 8 GB card from their previous computer.
Before I bought my RX 6800, I was running a GTX 980 4 GB on a Ryzen 5800x so a similar situation.
I have been seeing some nice prices on RX 5700 XT cards on eBay.
$140 range for "buy now" and might be able to do a little better with "make an offer" or bidding.
Thinking about getting one for them for Christmas.
Is it worth it as an upgrade? It is still an 8 GB card.
Is it too underwhelming for a Ryzen 7 5800x3D?
If I can get a really kick ass NVIDIA card, they would likely accept it, but mostly an AMD purist.
 
Compared to a RX 480, the RX 5700 XT is a bit more than twice as fast. Seems like a worthwhile upgrade to me.

Of new cards, the RX 6600 XT is about as fast as the RX 5700 XT, so check the used 5700 pricing against the 6600.
 
Something I don't understand:
I was watching a video about the performance of the i7-8700 and got curious about how much one might cost. I am seeing a lot of prices around the $260 range for board, CPU, and 16 GB of ram. Buying by the parts is a similar cost, maybe save $20 or so.

The problem is that you can get a Ryzen 5 5500, B550 board, and 16 GB of ram for a similar amount, maybe less. This is for all new components. Going used, although likely not worth it from my previous used Ryzen build, would save a bit off that.

The Ryzen 5 5500 has the same number of cores, outperforms the i7 8700 in both single thread and multi-thread performance, and is about five years newer.

With almost all sellers having similar prices, I suspect people are paying for them.
Why are people willing to pay so much?
Is it rabid intel fanboys and fangirls?
 
Preliminary draft: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/DkyzPF

What's your budget?
$1500 USD. The budget can be stretched.

What do I want the computer to do?
- Programming: simulations, software development, geospatial analysis, playing around with critters from the neural network zoo. I may even get my feet wet with Tensorflow/CUDA (finally)
- Gaming: this usage would probably be relatively light because about the only games I've played in the past year are Mabinogi (an old MMO) and Achaea (a MUD)
- VirtualBox session running a Linux distro, probably Ubuntu
In the past, what I did on my computers tended to be constrained by what the laptops could handle. This purchase is meant to ameliorate that.

Are you willing to build your own computer? How much do you know about building computers?
I am not. I have no experience building my own computers and there is no one I can call for help if I run into issues.

How long do you want this build to last? When do you plan to upgrade this computer?
I am planning to use the computer for 10 years.

What monitor resolution will you be using?
1920x1080, but I can live with 1600x900.

Are you reusing parts from an old computer?
No.

Do you plan to overclock?
No.

Where will you buying your parts?
USA.

Do you need to buy the OS (eg: buy windows), KB, mouse, monitor etc?
I will need to buy a Windows 11 license.

The others items that I need, but budgeted separately, are:
- keyboard ($50)
- two monitors ($100 each)
- at least 1TB of external storage ($100) for backup

Only the budget for the keyboard is stretchable.

Thanks in advance.
 
Altaigne said:
- Programming: simulations, software development, geospatial analysis, playing around with critters from the neural network zoo. I may even get my feet wet with Tensorflow/CUDA (finally)
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If you want to do anything neural network / LLM / AI, spend the extra for the 4060Ti 16GB.
It won't be faster, but the extra VRAM will give you so much more freedom/options... anything neural network gobbles up VRAM like crazy.

A storage compromise would be the Western Digital Black SN770 2TB - a bit faster sequentially than the Samsung 970 Evo+, but it doesn't have DRAM Cache, which can be a disadvantage in some workloads. It'll save you about $20.
If not, the Western Digital Black SN850X or the Samsung 980 Pro are both the same price as the 970 Evo+ and decidedly faster, which makes the 970 a suboptimal choice either way.

Altaigne said:
Are you willing to build your own computer? How much do you know about building computers?
I am not. I have no experience building my own computers and there is no one I can call for help if I run into issues.
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So you're looking for a prebuilt?
 
steamrick said:
If you want to do anything neural network / LLM / AI, spend the extra for the 4060Ti 16GB.
It won't be faster, but the extra VRAM will give you so much more freedom/options... anything neural network gobbles up VRAM like crazy.

A storage compromise would be the Western Digital Black SN770 2TB - a bit faster sequentially than the Samsung 970 Evo+, but it doesn't have DRAM Cache, which can be a disadvantage in some workloads. It'll save you about $20.
If not, the Western Digital Black SN850X or the Samsung 980 Pro are both the same price as the 970 Evo+ and decidedly faster, which makes the 970 a suboptimal choice either way.


So you're looking for a prebuilt?
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Thanks, I have no idea what to consider when it comes to picking video cards.
I also noticed that the Samsung 990 Pro was just slightly more expensive than the 980 Pro, so I picked that for storage for now.

I am indeed looking for a prebuilt.

Updated draft: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/N8PBqR
Do I need to add fans to this?

Edit: Sorry, I'm not sure how the terminology works. Does prebuilt include PCs assembled from custom parts, or just ones from OEMs?
 
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There are probably services around that assemble a PC for you from a parts list you pick for an extra fee if you don't want to assemble one yourself.

I know multiple off the top of my head in Germany and the US is probably not all that different. You may want to look around for a service like that and compare prices if you're aiming to get something with specific components.
 
Altaigne said:
Thanks. In that case I am looking for a prebuilt, yes.
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Here's a prebuilt configuration that's basically designed around the halloween sales that cyberpowerpc is having:
[edit: nope, doesn't seem to apply correctly, sorry. You'll have to see below and change components manually to get the most for your money.]

In case the link ends up not working as intended, here's the configuration I recommend - double-check you select everything identically:
Gaming PC Master 8000 (NO MONITOR)

  • *BASE_PRICE: [+1115]
  • CABLE: None
  • CAS: IN WIN N127 Mid Tower High Air Flow Gaming Case w/ Side Tempered Glass Window and Nebula Panel (1case fan Included) [+37]
  • CC: None
  • COOLANT: None
  • CPU: AMD Ryzen™ 9 5900X 3.7GHz [4.8GHz Turbo] 12 Cores/ 24 Threads 70MB Total Cache 105W Processor [-20]
  • CS_FAN: 3X 120mm Case Fans for your selected case [+9]
  • DDS: None
  • FAN: CyberPowerPC Bitspower 240mm AIO Liquid CPU Cooling System w/ Copper Cold Plate [+0]
  • FREEBIE_MN: None
  • HDD: 2TB ADATA LEGEND 800 GOLD Series (PCIe Gen4) NVMe M.2 SSD - Seq R/W: Up to 3500/2800 MB/s, Rnd R/W up to 290/415k [+0] (Single Drive)
  • HDD2: None
  • HEADSET: None
  • KEYBOARD: CyberPowerPC Multimedia USB Gaming Keyboard
  • MEMORY: 32GB (8GBx4) DDR4/3600MHz Dual Channel Memory [+75] (Team T-FORCE DELTA RGB)
  • MICROPHONE: None
  • MONITOR: None
  • MOPAD: None
  • MOTHERBOARD: GIGABYTE B550 UD AC ATX w/ WIFI 802.11, 1 Gigabit LAN, 5 PCIe x16, 4 SATA3, 2 M.2 SATA/PCIe
  • MOUSE: CyberPowerPC Lyra 01 RGB 6-Color w/ 7 Button USB wired, 4200DPI Optical Gaming Mouse
  • NETWORK: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
  • OS: Windows 11 Home
  • OVERCLOCK: No Overclocking
  • POWERSUPPLY: 650 Watts - Seasonic FOCUS-GM-650 80 PLUS Gold Certified high-efficient Semi-modular Power Supply [+28]
  • PRO_WIRING: None
  • RECOVERYUSB: None
  • RUSH: Standard processing time: ship within 7 to 10 Business Days
  • SERVICE: 3 Years FREE Service Plan (INCLUDES LABOR AND LIFETIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT)
  • SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
  • SPEAKERS: None
  • USBHD: None
  • VIDEO: GIGABYTE GeForce RTX™ 4060 Ti GAMING OC 16GB GDDR6 Video Card (DLSS 3.0) [AI-Powered Graphics] [+303] (Single Card)
  • WARRANTY: STANDARD WARRANTY: 1 Year Parts WARRANTY
  • WNC: None
  • _PRICE: (+1547)
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Slightly above budget before final rebate ("treat" coupon code), but better than expected, with plenty of power and Windows already included.
The "5% INSTANT REBATE ON ALL ORDERS OVER $999 MUST ENTER COUPON CODE "TREAT" DURING CHECKOUT." should apply on top.

You'd have to decide relatively quickly, though, since I'm not sure how long the sale lasts. Presumably until sometime after the 31st though, so you've got a few days.
 
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I will say that there are at least hundreds of videos on YouTube on how to build your own PC if you wish to try.
It is honestly not all that hard to build your own PC these days.

steamrick said:
If you want to do anything neural network / LLM / AI, spend the extra for the 4060Ti 16GB.
It won't be faster, but the extra VRAM will give you so much more freedom/options... anything neural network gobbles up VRAM like crazy.
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Would a 12 GB RTX 3060 be good for their needs? Might be a way to save some money?
 
Thank you everyone. I went with @steamrick 's suggestion since it was within my budget (after the 5% discount) and well over the specs I thought I could get.

@Kitsune, while tinkering around with computers does sound like my cup of tea, I would prefer to cut on my teeth on a more replaceable unit first. It will be something for me to think about a few years down the road.
 
I actually have a question that @Baughn may have a good answer to but that other people might be interested in as well.

I have a RTX 4090 FE. I am thinking that the 24GB of VRAM is not really enough for some of the stuff I'd like to do, which is work with 70-160B parameter LLMs.

An A100 80GB would be great but even pre-owned it's still way outside of my price range (like $20K; even an A100 40GB is still like, $7-8K). I'm thinking about getting a 3090 (or maybe 2), which I can get for like, $800-$1000 each, maybe a bit less if I go hunting.

Any thoughts on this? I know the 4090 + 3090 config is less than ideal, but given the huge cost differential, is it really that bad?
 
Squishy said:
I actually have a question that @Baughn may have a good answer to but that other people might be interested in as well.

I have a RTX 4090 FE. I am thinking that the 24GB of VRAM is not really enough for some of the stuff I'd like to do, which is work with 70-160B parameter LLMs.

An A100 80GB would be great but even pre-owned it's still way outside of my price range (like $20K; even an A100 40GB is still like, $7-8K). I'm thinking about getting a 3090 (or maybe 2), which I can get for like, $800-$1000 each, maybe a bit less if I go hunting.

Any thoughts on this? I know the 4090 + 3090 config is less than ideal, but given the huge cost differential, is it really that bad?
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I can't guarantee that it'll be possible to shard the LLM across GPUs. In theory it's supposed to be possible, but it requires a lot of PCIe traffic—slowing things down—and many tools aren't made to do it.

I got myself an M2 Max macbook pro to run that sort of thing. It's expensive, but at 96GB of RAM, it's got... 80-85GB of effective VRAM, even before you start considering quantization. And sure, it's a lot slower than an A100—or even my 4090—but it's a lot cheaper than said A100, as well.

It's too slow to be practical for something like SDXL; that runs better on the 4090, where it fits. For an LLM, it's still generally faster than I can read. The main drawback would be if you mean to fine-tune it; for inference it's more or less fast enough. I had it digesting SV posts roughly at the speed they were being written, at one point.
 
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