Paradox (SI)
- Thread starter Hiver
- Start date
girador
There are only four circles in this picture
- Location
- behind a screen
If he asks after he gets back Bolas will have already lost his spark and gotten stuck in his prison realm. That said time traveling is not unheard of in planeswalkers, even post-mending, Teferi is an example of a post-mending 'walker that can do so innately.
PurpLexed
The girl(!) in the Snow
- Location
- Maine
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Oh my god
They're pre-Mending planeswalkers
holy shit this is where they ascend to Godhood isnt it?
For those of you not well versed in MTG lore, planeswalkers used to be a LOT more powerful, literally diety-tier entities with no limits. We're talking 'universe creating, reality rending, time traveling with zero limits' levels of power. This was retconned in-story with an event called the Mending, where several of the Oldwalkers gave up power in order to rewrite the fabric of reality and put limits on themselves.
The big bad evil guy of the whole franchise, Nicol Bolas, spends his whole life trying to get back to his Pre-mending status. As strong as he was in this story, as powerful he was when Atregos fought him on Ravnica, Bolas was only ever at a fraction's fraction of his former power.
AND ATREGOS STUMBLED INTO IT ON ACCIDENT.
They're pre-Mending planeswalkers
holy shit this is where they ascend to Godhood isnt it?
For those of you not well versed in MTG lore, planeswalkers used to be a LOT more powerful, literally diety-tier entities with no limits. We're talking 'universe creating, reality rending, time traveling with zero limits' levels of power. This was retconned in-story with an event called the Mending, where several of the Oldwalkers gave up power in order to rewrite the fabric of reality and put limits on themselves.
The big bad evil guy of the whole franchise, Nicol Bolas, spends his whole life trying to get back to his Pre-mending status. As strong as he was in this story, as powerful he was when Atregos fought him on Ravnica, Bolas was only ever at a fraction's fraction of his former power.
AND ATREGOS STUMBLED INTO IT ON ACCIDENT.
girador
There are only four circles in this picture
- Location
- behind a screen
Time travel is insufficient to put one in a permanently pre-mending state. If it worked Teferi would be a pre-mending 'walker, he's not.
Jormungandr
The Midgard Wyrm
You know, I'd laugh my fucking ass off if it turns out this little adventure causes Atregos and Alexis to end up being worshipped as "ancient deities" by some people when they return to the present.
Chromie: "What did you do?!"
Atregos: "I don't know! We didn't do anything out of the ordinary!"
Alexis: "I knew this would go pear-shaped, you dumb lizard!"
Wrathion: "Huh, some of the lore about you two is... interesting, to say the least. Do you know you both have a line of pretenders across worlds who say they're descended from you both? Oh, and Alexis apparently has the 'Boomstick of Fate'."
Atregos/Alexis: "...What?"
- Location
- Oblivion
We've had Sparks in the Canon stories travel through time from Post Mending to Pre Mending before.
Their Sparks are unaffected.
So it was probably just the difference in the Blind Eternities that they were sensing.
- Location
- Belgium
Wasn't the reason for the mending that the blind eternities and the multiversal frame itself was affected negatively by the planeswalker? If so it's possible that like you said the blind eternities are "looser" and give less resistance compared to their post mending self.
- Location
- Oblivion
Not exactly.
Long story short, a bunch of Time Rifts were unintentionally created in Dominaria, this put the entire Multiverse at risk because Dominaria was the Nexus of the Multiverse. The Mending was long string of actions taken to heal the damage caused to the Multiverse by this. But the actions taken to do this had blowback which altered both the Blind Eternities and Planeswalker Spark.
I would guess that the difference they feel is mostly the change in the Blind Eternities, but it is very possible that being there in that time and experiencing those conditions could permanently change or empower their sparks. Even learning to navigate in a "simpler" version of the Multiverse could make a difference when they Walk in their time.
ExaltedNekoKun
Exalted Glorious Feline Light Source!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him/Lord/Fuzzball
Not gonna hold my breath that their sparks are 'changed'/empowered to the point of pre-mending. That said, nothing says sufficient exposure to the pre-mending blind eternities can't result in spiritual or subconscious changes to how they travel the space. Heck, sufficient study could lead to potential revelations in magic or artifice crafting used to traverse the blind eternities. Wonder what a Blue Dragon's take on the Weatherlight could be. I know that post-mending, all pre-mending planar tech no longer worked, but if changes could be accounted for...
- Location
- Oblivion
If the changes could be accounted for in that manner, wouldn't the Oldwalkers who lived through the mending have already done so?
Remember, as impressive as Arty thinks he is, he's not actually that impressive by even just post-mending planeswalker standards. His one real claim to fame isn't his long range at will walking, which the stories have shown us any trained planeswalker can do. Or his Artificing, which is below that of pretty much every other Planeswalking Artificer. But the Soul Stone trick he picked up from Warcraft Warlocks.
And well, that's something any Planeswalker can learn if they run into it.
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24
Another bird flew away as Alexis summoned it, "See anything?" she yelled over the wind.
"Nothing," I answered as I scanned the horizon, knowing that Ren was doing the same. If there was something, at least one of us should be able to spot it, "Should we go higher."
"I already can't feel my toes!" Alexis answered, "Besides, the sun is starting to set. We should land for the night."
"She has a point," Ren said, "If we can't see anything now, we won't during the dark."
"Unless there are fires from the natives," I pointed out, "But I can do that with a scrying spell. Either of you see a good spot?"
We had been flying in the direction of the mountains, looking for any sign of people. If we found a river, we'd follow that under the logic that most species found running water useful for transport if nothing else, but the closest we spotted so far was a couple of small lakes.
"What about down there?" Alexis asked over the wind, "That group of trees should form a natural windbreak."
"As good as any," I agreed and shifted course, starting to slowly circle down towards the ground and the trees in question. Not enough to call a forest or even a grove really, just a couple of hundred trees growing around a small pond of water. We had seen animals, so they existed at least, but nothing advanced enough to even look like tool users.
Hmm.
No, we hunted before we left, I'm not really hungry.
A group of deer-like things squeaked and piped in fear, bouncing high into the air above the grass as they ran away as we went in for landing. I flared my wings and set down just outside the grove of trees before stretching and folding my wings.
Flying all day was tiring and my wings ached slightly. I really should do more flying and less lab time.
Alexis unstrapped from the saddle and jumped to the ground, "God damn it, gecko, would it hurt you to make that thing a bit more padded?" she asked as she stumbled.
"Not really," I said and settled down, "But you can get your own ride if you like."
Alexis shook her head and gave me a twack on the snout followed by a scratching behind my nosehorn, "Whatever. I'll gather some firewood, I for one could use some coffee."
I snorted and set my head down on my forelegs. Coffee. Disgusting.
As she went into the forest, Ren settled down next to me, resting her head across the back of my neck, "I don't think we'll find anything," she said, "Usually we have seen at least some sign by now."
"Hmm, maybe," I admitted, "But maybe we're just somewhere unpopulated. We have six more days before we need to get back with the rest, we have to use them the best we can."
"Agreed," Ren sighed softly.
"Thinking about Zrazta?" I asked quietly.
"Yes," Ren answered just as quietly, "worried. Miss her."
"Me too."
Alexis returned not long after with a big bundle of wood. The last light of the sun started to fade away as she built her fire before lighting it with a snap of her fingers, "Have you used any Land magic since we went back in time?" she asked.
I considered that for a moment before I shook my head, "Not really. Other than summoning Paladin once to check for traps. Why?"
She adjusted the wood in the fire, "What about you Ren?"
Ren shook her head, "Have not needed too. Is it different?"
"I don't know," Alexis admitted and sat down, crossing her legs as she pulled some gear from her pack, "...It feels easier somehow, like it's less of a strain. It's strange. It flows smoother?"
"I wonder what could have happened to cause that," I asked, digging my claws into the ground, "Is it the long time travel jump? Is it the age of the universe? or has something big changed since now?"
Alexis just shook her head, "I have no idea," she said and chewed on some dried meat, "I guess we'll find out when we go back. If it is something with us, it should stick around. If it's the multiverse, things go back to normal."
"I wouldn't mind if it stuck around," I admitted, "Would make Walking a lot faster and safer. I like not being exhausted for a week after every Walk."
The light changed and I lifted my head to look as a massive moon rose above the horizon. It looked six or seven times larger than even Azeroth's largest moon.
Amazing.
That big... it had to be very close or very big. Could this be a double planet, not an actual moon?
Or was it even a Planet at all?
The surface of the moon didn't look...
As the 'moon' rose, things got clearer as it went through less atmosphere. I could see it clearly. Oceans. Landmasses. The green of plantlife.
"Oh," Alexis said, looking up towards it, "Would you look at that."
"You know, with what I learned and with magic as it is right now…" I slowly said as I watched the second world, "It might not be too difficult to build a flying shi-"
"No!" Alexis told me firmly, "We're in enough trouble as is."
Never let me have any fun.
"Nothing," I answered as I scanned the horizon, knowing that Ren was doing the same. If there was something, at least one of us should be able to spot it, "Should we go higher."
"I already can't feel my toes!" Alexis answered, "Besides, the sun is starting to set. We should land for the night."
"She has a point," Ren said, "If we can't see anything now, we won't during the dark."
"Unless there are fires from the natives," I pointed out, "But I can do that with a scrying spell. Either of you see a good spot?"
We had been flying in the direction of the mountains, looking for any sign of people. If we found a river, we'd follow that under the logic that most species found running water useful for transport if nothing else, but the closest we spotted so far was a couple of small lakes.
"What about down there?" Alexis asked over the wind, "That group of trees should form a natural windbreak."
"As good as any," I agreed and shifted course, starting to slowly circle down towards the ground and the trees in question. Not enough to call a forest or even a grove really, just a couple of hundred trees growing around a small pond of water. We had seen animals, so they existed at least, but nothing advanced enough to even look like tool users.
Hmm.
No, we hunted before we left, I'm not really hungry.
A group of deer-like things squeaked and piped in fear, bouncing high into the air above the grass as they ran away as we went in for landing. I flared my wings and set down just outside the grove of trees before stretching and folding my wings.
Flying all day was tiring and my wings ached slightly. I really should do more flying and less lab time.
Alexis unstrapped from the saddle and jumped to the ground, "God damn it, gecko, would it hurt you to make that thing a bit more padded?" she asked as she stumbled.
"Not really," I said and settled down, "But you can get your own ride if you like."
Alexis shook her head and gave me a twack on the snout followed by a scratching behind my nosehorn, "Whatever. I'll gather some firewood, I for one could use some coffee."
I snorted and set my head down on my forelegs. Coffee. Disgusting.
As she went into the forest, Ren settled down next to me, resting her head across the back of my neck, "I don't think we'll find anything," she said, "Usually we have seen at least some sign by now."
"Hmm, maybe," I admitted, "But maybe we're just somewhere unpopulated. We have six more days before we need to get back with the rest, we have to use them the best we can."
"Agreed," Ren sighed softly.
"Thinking about Zrazta?" I asked quietly.
"Yes," Ren answered just as quietly, "worried. Miss her."
"Me too."
Alexis returned not long after with a big bundle of wood. The last light of the sun started to fade away as she built her fire before lighting it with a snap of her fingers, "Have you used any Land magic since we went back in time?" she asked.
I considered that for a moment before I shook my head, "Not really. Other than summoning Paladin once to check for traps. Why?"
She adjusted the wood in the fire, "What about you Ren?"
Ren shook her head, "Have not needed too. Is it different?"
"I don't know," Alexis admitted and sat down, crossing her legs as she pulled some gear from her pack, "...It feels easier somehow, like it's less of a strain. It's strange. It flows smoother?"
"I wonder what could have happened to cause that," I asked, digging my claws into the ground, "Is it the long time travel jump? Is it the age of the universe? or has something big changed since now?"
Alexis just shook her head, "I have no idea," she said and chewed on some dried meat, "I guess we'll find out when we go back. If it is something with us, it should stick around. If it's the multiverse, things go back to normal."
"I wouldn't mind if it stuck around," I admitted, "Would make Walking a lot faster and safer. I like not being exhausted for a week after every Walk."
The light changed and I lifted my head to look as a massive moon rose above the horizon. It looked six or seven times larger than even Azeroth's largest moon.
Amazing.
That big... it had to be very close or very big. Could this be a double planet, not an actual moon?
Or was it even a Planet at all?
The surface of the moon didn't look...
As the 'moon' rose, things got clearer as it went through less atmosphere. I could see it clearly. Oceans. Landmasses. The green of plantlife.
"Oh," Alexis said, looking up towards it, "Would you look at that."
"You know, with what I learned and with magic as it is right now…" I slowly said as I watched the second world, "It might not be too difficult to build a flying shi-"
"No!" Alexis told me firmly, "We're in enough trouble as is."
Never let me have any fun.
- Location
- Software
They are not the ones that time traveled, but Chromie. That's a big difference there.
Enthusiast#117
This is not the Profile you are looking for
- Location
- United States
If they ever let this get out, the bronze flight will be hunted.
- Location
- Oblivion
Not really?
The Temporal Pressure of the Time Stream on a Planeswalker is a function of the Multiverse itself. So either it exists, and they should be feeling it. Or it doesn't exist. In which case, since there is no downside to Time Travel, a lot more Planeswalkers should be traveling through time through any of the varied ways to travel through time that are known.
Oh, and as a note, Planeswalkers are very specifically immune to Paradox.
We know this, because Sarkhan, the Planeswalker, traveled through time and negated his own birth but returned to the present perfectly fine.
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I was going to say that most of former Oldwalkers weren't artificers, but then I remembered Karn.
Though I suppose it's possible the idea of trying to reinvent any of Urza's major works simply hasn't occurred to him (not considering the equal of his creator maybe?)
- Location
- Oblivion
Don't forgot Nicol Bolas.I was going to say that most of former Oldwalkers weren't artificers, but then I remembered Karn.
Though I suppose it's possible the idea of trying to reinvent any of Urza's major works simply hasn't occurred to him (not considering the equal of his creator maybe?)
girador
There are only four circles in this picture
- Location
- behind a screen
There is no difference as the pressure does not care who did the time travel, only that a planeswalker is out of their time.
If they arrive in the past 14 thousand years ago, and need to access a Titan facility, instead of breaking in, they should go ask some Titan Keepers to help. What's Mimiron doing at that time?
From what perspective do they have 5 years? Five years from when they left? Then they have plenty if time.
Five tears from their current time? Bullshit, how did it originally get fixed, use that timeloop method, just have Chrmie ask another Bronze what the solution was.
Five years absolute, and this bomb has an atemporal timer that somehow can keep track despite all the bronze fuckery? Go back to their present and evacuate everyone off world.
Otherwise they should just go back further anyways, grab Maltgos to help them from when he was younger, and disable the bomb with younger Malygos's help. It's not like there's literally no points in time they could ask for his help, right? He knows about Bronze shit being difficult and weird. Being asked to help disable a Titan facility and literally never speak if it again would be just the cost of living with the Bronze Dragonflight.
There's gotta be a free day or two they could ask help from him.
And if they're on a free plane before the Mending then they're golden anyways, they can just use time magic to give themselves as much time as they need because time was de-synced before the Mending. Doesn't even matter if they're messy about it because the Mending will fix it all eventually anyways.
Also, I thought the MC was an insert who knew MtG lore? Why is he even confused by the Pre-Mending period effects? I've never been particularly impressed with this guy, but at least he should remember or have written down everything he knew about the lore.
From what perspective do they have 5 years? Five years from when they left? Then they have plenty if time.
Five tears from their current time? Bullshit, how did it originally get fixed, use that timeloop method, just have Chrmie ask another Bronze what the solution was.
Five years absolute, and this bomb has an atemporal timer that somehow can keep track despite all the bronze fuckery? Go back to their present and evacuate everyone off world.
Otherwise they should just go back further anyways, grab Maltgos to help them from when he was younger, and disable the bomb with younger Malygos's help. It's not like there's literally no points in time they could ask for his help, right? He knows about Bronze shit being difficult and weird. Being asked to help disable a Titan facility and literally never speak if it again would be just the cost of living with the Bronze Dragonflight.
There's gotta be a free day or two they could ask help from him.
And if they're on a free plane before the Mending then they're golden anyways, they can just use time magic to give themselves as much time as they need because time was de-synced before the Mending. Doesn't even matter if they're messy about it because the Mending will fix it all eventually anyways.
Also, I thought the MC was an insert who knew MtG lore? Why is he even confused by the Pre-Mending period effects? I've never been particularly impressed with this guy, but at least he should remember or have written down everything he knew about the lore.
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
Why would involving an even earlier Malygos be meaningfully different from involving the Malygos from their current timeframe, which was nixed by Chromie and her innate sense of what will fuck up the timestream?
Why'd you think that?
That's the paradox, it wasn't supposed to be activated, Chromie pulled this idea out of her ass trying to prevent the entire WoW timeline from being snipped before the Elves even fucked thing up in the OTL.
- Location
- Oblivion
Still confused about why they are spending all their time messing around with the Titan ruins instead of hunting down the time traveler that causes the timeline change and just stopping them from activating the thing.
where did you get the idea that they know who/what trigger the device?Chromie knew that the Titan device is what ends the world, no indication that they know what the trigger is.