seriously, all those melee weapon can bash a face or two, but an arsenal of offensive and defensive magic with proper coordination of allies will determine the outcome of the entire battle
Pallagia: Adventure, Mystery, and Danger in the Great Tower (AKA Kemonomimi Fantasy Dungeon Quest)
- Thread starter Kei
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
[x] Ford Prefect
A vulpis would be fine too, though.
A vulpis would be fine too, though.
- Location
- ☯
[X] Felis.
[X] Rapier.
[X] A tome.
[X] Graneria
[X] Rapier.
[X] A tome.
[X] Graneria
[X] Leporis
[X] A longbow
[X] A spear
[X] Weisel
[X] A longbow
[X] A spear
[X] Weisel
I laughed. XD
Well, strictly speaking, the term here is kemonomimi, which suggests a relatively wide range of animals. I used the "catgirls" tag because...well, it already exists. So. ^_^;
Actually, while I do see the parallels, I only watched maybe three or four episodes of Is It Wrong to Try Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon?, and I'm not being consciously inspired by that light novel/anime. Although maybe I should go watch it now... ^_^;
Usually, I accept votes by set, AKA by specific combination. However, in instances where I provide a lot of options or if the results I get are super-varied - such as in the case of this one - I also tally the votes by individual categories, and then see how well I can reconcile both results; depending on how badly the results are skewed, I may end up taking the results for individual categories, or some combination thereof. So let me try to make the vote analysis an open process here. x_x
By set, the vote put forth by @Ford Prefect , @Salbazier , and @sebsmith wins, which is the following:
This is true even if you fold in vote sets that are identical save for the fact that a name was not included. @Nightfallen 's vote is identical to the aforementioned vote save for the lack of a proposed name. Similarly, @arsdraconis and @evtd have identical votes save for the fact that the latter did not propose a name. @Havocfett and @hcvquizibo have identical votes save for the fact that the latter did not vote for kingdom of origin. So if we calculate by vote sets, the quoted vote has the unquestionable victory.
If you count by individual categories, things get a little tricky.
Airem Ieri Sinar 2
Aria Loris 1
Kassia 1
Meria Irei Ranis 4
Monika 1
Yvette 1
Aria Loris 1
Kassia 1
Meria Irei Ranis 4
Monika 1
Yvette 1
Felis 8
Leporis 3
Lupis 2
Ursis 3
Vulpis 3
Leporis 3
Lupis 2
Ursis 3
Vulpis 3
First off, both the name and race categories are consistent with the leading set vote, once again proving that kitties command superiority on the internet. So these are the two results I'll be locking in. ^_^;
Desilion 4
Graneria 5
Tritera 8
Weisel 1
Graneria 5
Tritera 8
Weisel 1
Kingdom of origin is where we see our first divergence from the set vote, with Tritera commanding a pretty solid lead over second-place Graneria from the leading set vote.
Weapons is where counting votes can get really tricky, in part because there are two ways to count them. While I can simply count by individual weapons, it's also true that - perhaps moreso than any other category - weapons were selected by set, and were likely done in tactical combinations. So let's look at both possibilities.
Spear 1
Longsword 6
Rapier 5
Zweihander 2
Warhammer 2
Longbow 3
Tome 12
Staff 7
Longsword 6
Rapier 5
Zweihander 2
Warhammer 2
Longbow 3
Tome 12
Staff 7
Spear and Longbow 1
Longsword and Zweihander 1
Longsword and Tome 3
Longsword and Staff 2
Rapier and Tome 5
Zweihander and Staff 1
Warhammer and Longbow 2
Tome and Staff 4
Longsword and Zweihander 1
Longsword and Tome 3
Longsword and Staff 2
Rapier and Tome 5
Zweihander and Staff 1
Warhammer and Longbow 2
Tome and Staff 4
So here you can see the problem. "Rapier and tome" commands the vote by set, with "tome and staff" at a close second place and "longsword and tome" at a close third place. However, if we look at the votes by individual weapons, while the tome commands an indisputable first place, rapier is a pretty distant fourth, squeezed out by staff in second place and longsword in third. x_x
...You know, I made the very same mistake of not making it clear what my vote-tallying methodology was when writing Beyond Harvest. I mean, it has been more than half a year, but I wish I would actually remember my lessons. T_T
Anyways, my provisional solution: The vote for Tritera is simply too commanding for me to ignore (eight out of eighteen votes, just shy of one), so I will be using this. In terms of weapons, while rapier is individually at fourth place, it is just close enough to votes for staff and longsword (by one vote between each weapon) that I feel I can justify simply using the leading set vote of "rapier and tome". In other words, my provisional solution looks like this:
This is the vote I'll proceed with unless there are any strong objections, whether because you are dissatisfied with the result or if you feel that you would've voted drastically differently had you known about my methodology. I'll try to wait at least twelve hours for any responses in the negative before - in the event there are no objections - I lock this vote in and post the next update. I'd like to apologize for not having handled this vote by being clear and upfront about my methodology to begin with, and want to thank you all for your patience and understanding. x_x
Alivaril
On a magically-deficient journey of self-discovery
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Since the combination of "Tome & Staff" is only one behind by pairing, but does hold the first and second place overall, I would rather you went with that. Or held a (tiebreaker) vote between the two options.
I suppose my main concern is which set would be more effective overall. I think healing and support capabilities would fit with our magical offense and allow us to focus our abilities, funding, and studying on magic. Getting a rapier would require us to split it between magic and physical skills. The defensive equipment for each is likely to be different as well. Plus, medics are usually valuable and well-defended in most worlds.
The votes are really close and I'm biased, though, so do whatever makes you happy. No "strong" objections here; this case is a bit fuzzy.
I suppose my main concern is which set would be more effective overall. I think healing and support capabilities would fit with our magical offense and allow us to focus our abilities, funding, and studying on magic. Getting a rapier would require us to split it between magic and physical skills. The defensive equipment for each is likely to be different as well. Plus, medics are usually valuable and well-defended in most worlds.
The votes are really close and I'm biased, though, so do whatever makes you happy. No "strong" objections here; this case is a bit fuzzy.
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- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
Thanks for explaining your methodology! Makes things a lot clearer. That said, with regards to the weapons...
As a longsword voter, I'm personally fine with going the rapier route. Honestly it was a toss-up for me between the langschwert and the rapier. No, it's not just so I can make puss in boots jokes.
Not entirely anyway.
(Also I am a massive fan of the Magic Fencer schtick. Sword and tome just seems like it'd be fun, and gives us an excuse to go full FFXI Red Mage on people's faces)
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Alivaril
On a magically-deficient journey of self-discovery
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This, I'm a bit curious about. Why? From a practical standpoint, the skillsets required for them seem like they'd be mutually exclusive. Or at least, not very synergistic. Additionally, being entirely focused on magic would let us open the range as much as possible, while rapier+magic would require for us to switch weapons depending on the range.
Two words: Dual Wielding
e:
As for synergy, well, that depends on how you use it. Self-buffing ala Combat Cleric may be more straightforward way to go gish, but one can get a lot of mileage from offensive elementals too. Pepper enemies with Lightning bolt while they are still far away, freeze or slow them with ice to hold them in places before attacking, wall of fire or ice sheet to shape the battlefield, AoE if surrounded. On the other hand, having weapon skill ensure we are not that squishy and not helpless when enemy run up close/run out of magic.
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The idea is that they are complementary. The tome sucks at blocking attacks from people who get close, but that's exactly the sort of action a fast weapon – like a rapier – excels at. Similarly, the rapier has short reach, while the tome can strike at any range.
Given that we have no idea if we're joining a party or not, and we're probably avoiding potential harem protagonists, having a range of capabilities which can support multiple different approaches is useful. Also:
And gish is fun.
It's a pretty generic 'cute girls with swords harem' anime, but it does have heart. In some ways it might be better to avoid it to prevent it from influencing you, but that depends on how you respond to similar works. Overall, it's not actually a work I'd recommend, unless one already likes the genre.
Ah, yes that too. Red Mage build is jack-of-all-trades-build. Versatility is good for solo as you noted, but even in party environment in can be useful to have the ability to fulfill a variety of roles.
Alivaril
On a magically-deficient journey of self-discovery
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
A tome is a book. As in, something you'd have to look at. A rapier is meant for stabbing.
Even if you hold one in each hand, I think we'd have to switch between which one we're using at any given time. Not exactly ideal.
[] A tome: Used for elemental and offensive spells. Good all-range general purpose weapon, but lacks defensive capabilities.
[] A staff: Used for healing and support spells. Good all-range support and crowd control weapon, but lacks offensive capabilities.
Most of the things you just mentioned fall under crowd control.
Rapiers are light and quick. Speaking from experience, they're not all that great at blocking. Deflecting, yes, but a lot of using a rapier involves keeping your opponent on the defensive.
Thus why I voted for Felis. Crowd Control from the staff to slow them down and keep the range open, attacks from the tome to bombard them, staff to heal any wounds we sustained during the combat. Works whether we're part of a party or solo.
Still, thank you for elaborating. Even if I disagree, it's good to know what's going through your heads.
OkayishGatsby
This Titan is Fine
A cat is fine too. 
Hybrid/Red Mage builds seems to be a running theme with Kei quests. Ramza with his Knight+Black/White Magic, Shepard with Physical/Biotic, and now this.
Hybrid/Red Mage builds seems to be a running theme with Kei quests. Ramza with his Knight+Black/White Magic, Shepard with Physical/Biotic, and now this.
- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
The primary advantage of using a sword and book rather than just sticking to a pure mage build is that the two powersets cover one another's weaknesses. The rapier is most effective at very close ranges, where spellcasting may not necessarily be so useful. Meanwhile, heavy offensive spells can cover the rapier's issues in dealing with heavier targets and can blast things away at long range. There's a lot more personal flexibility in this skillset, and it's less viable to get shut down if we're hit by an antimagic field or something like that.
Also, rapiers are also pretty good at killing things quietly. Dark Souls told me so. Moreover, using one effectively requires a good deal of intuition and intelligence to discern vital points to strike at, something that carries over into spellcasting as well.
As an example, duelists in Pathfinder do some pretty crazy things when you buff their int stat.
Also, rapiers are also pretty good at killing things quietly. Dark Souls told me so. Moreover, using one effectively requires a good deal of intuition and intelligence to discern vital points to strike at, something that carries over into spellcasting as well.
As an example, duelists in Pathfinder do some pretty crazy things when you buff their int stat.
Alivaril
On a magically-deficient journey of self-discovery
- Location
- A single human dimension
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We'd also have to wait for regeneration, potions, or a teammate if we wanted to heal up. Not exactly optimal for solo. Meanwhile, in the groups of most fantasy settings, healers tend to be valuable and in demand, moreso than somebody who is only meant for attack-attack-attack.
I like crowd control and healing. Run away + CC + bombardment.
I don't suppose we could just have another vote between the two options?
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- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
I've run solo in a bunch of roleplaying games as just a plain old ordinary DPS-er with a bag of bandages. Healing is well and good, but nothing drops enemy damage faster than a goodly amount of damage-per-second.
Personally I'd rather we just get into the story, myself. I kind of want to see how things develop before going completely apeshit over character optimization.
Personally I'd rather we just get into the story, myself. I kind of want to see how things develop before going completely apeshit over character optimization.
[] A tome: Used for elemental and offensive spells. Good all-range general purpose weapon, but lacks defensive capabilities.
[] A staff: Used for healing and support spells. Good all-range support and crowd control weapon, but lacks offensive capabilities.
Emphasis mine? Also, I'm pretty certain freezing someone's guts or throwing fireball would fall under 'offensive'
Chant spell while stabbing. Spare a breath or two between swings to cast.
I don't see how that is a problem? Hybrid mage/fighter usually don't use both sword and magic at the same time anyway (well, some types like FF's Mystic Knight or D&D's Duskblade do). They intersperse magic and swordfighting between each other.
Still, rather than guessing: Um, @Kei? would this this too 'narrative question' to ask clarification for?
Especially when we only have vague idea and guessess regarding exact mechanic. I mean, arguments are fun and all but it is bit frustating when both side basically working of very little information. For all we know, this world could have magic tomes capable of casting by itself and +1 dancing rapier are a dime a dozen.
I like to trust that QMs are not going to shit all over player for not choosing the most optimized build. If some build are going to be more difficult that others, well, more FUN to be had, no?
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- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's all well and good to balance yourself for a party, but we're not going to start with a party and there's no guarantee that we'll always have them watching our backs. I think it makes sense that we at least have some focus on physical combat if only for self-defence, or to deal with any magic resistant enemies. A fantasy rapiers are light and fast and so gels pretty well with magician style gear and feel like something you can swap to quickly in a pinch. Like that's how it feels to me.
Ultimately I don't think we're going to be punished for our choices. It doesn't seem like that kind of quest.
Ultimately I don't think we're going to be punished for our choices. It doesn't seem like that kind of quest.
honestly, never a big fan of red Mage build, and the only reason I tolerate Ramza being one is because Kei doesn't let us tie up a chocobo and have Ramza use Boost a few thousand time to become a master Monk to just fist of the North Star out of everything.
That being said, I'm just not really seeing the synergy with rapier unless you can cast spell without using the tome or staff as a catalyst, but that kinda defeat the point of weapon choice. I'd like it if @Kei could clarify how the magic system work, do this weapon choice provide just the possible skill set of the character, or is it more like Fire Emblem where the weapon is the catalyst for each action taken, and using one would effectively prevent the usage of the other on the same action.
If it's the former, the rapier + tome might synergyze well, but if it's the latter, then the whole notion of stabbing people while casting spell is just not gonna happen
Personally, I'd rather be a God than an LELdritch knight, but that's just my 3.5 talking
That being said, I'm just not really seeing the synergy with rapier unless you can cast spell without using the tome or staff as a catalyst, but that kinda defeat the point of weapon choice. I'd like it if @Kei could clarify how the magic system work, do this weapon choice provide just the possible skill set of the character, or is it more like Fire Emblem where the weapon is the catalyst for each action taken, and using one would effectively prevent the usage of the other on the same action.
If it's the former, the rapier + tome might synergyze well, but if it's the latter, then the whole notion of stabbing people while casting spell is just not gonna happen
Personally, I'd rather be a God than an LELdritch knight, but that's just my 3.5 talking
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I'm quite sure using two different magic at the same time isnt going to happen either.
that's not the point of tome + staff build to begin with, it's there to give options as a battlefield controller, rather than using both at the same time. Same can't be said with the spellblade build, which is why I'm asking a mechanical question to determine its viability in the first place.
trying to cast in the middle of a melee when it requires you to pull up a book will probably get you stabbed in the neck, for starter, and it'd make the resulting character less of a spellblade and more like a duelist that can cast offensive magic from a distance, which isn't bad, but not exactly the flavor they're going for.
I played FFXI from 2004-2009, this is seriously a trigger warning. Stay in the back ,debuff, and cast refresh and haste like a good red mage. Frontline is for people with A Rank weapon skill, I better not see you equipping a sword instead of a set of (HQ) elemental staves.
trying to cast in the middle of a melee when it requires you to pull up a book will probably get you stabbed in the neck, for starter, and it'd make the resulting character less of a spellblade and more like a duelist that can cast offensive magic from a distance, which isn't bad, but not exactly the flavor they're going for.
I played FFXI from 2004-2009, this is seriously a trigger warning. Stay in the back ,debuff, and cast refresh and haste like a good red mage. Frontline is for people with A Rank weapon skill, I better not see you equipping a sword instead of a set of (HQ) elemental staves.
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- Location
- A Place Miserably Bereft of Cats
I like how people are still speculating on game mechanics when the story's barely started and the QM said in the OP that this quest would be mechanics-lite.
Seriously, I could care less about the effectiveness of the build itself, I just think spellsword is really awesome imagery.
Seriously, I could care less about the effectiveness of the build itself, I just think spellsword is really awesome imagery.