On the Road to Elspar [Book 1] (Dryad Mercenary Schoolgirl Quest)

[Mother Nyx]

Support magic does, which is what the ideas I supported did, and funnily enough, they also featured a large amount of Neianne taking classes on command.

I just disagree with you on the benefit that unarmed combat brings to her skillset as opposed to learning other sorts of skills, and I just figure that magic is going to be a thing that would be much better to start learning early as I imagine it's going to take longer to get to good proficiency in, and I would expect the number of situations where unarmed combat would help is less than the number of uses being able to heal has.

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What you're not addressing with your argument is that we're not going to be focusing on magic the same way that Elizabeth is. We're physical melee first. Magic is a supplement to the whole, not the entire focus. We can afford to take it next year and in fact should. We're not amazing with our current set of skills. We're like, kind of okay with our sword. What was the exact quote?

You are achieving competence with a buster sword.

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We're competent with it. Just... competent. Meanwhile everyone else on the team is so much better. Adding magic does not help this. It literally does not help us with our main weapon in any way. Unarmed Combat at least has the narrative effect of possibly adding knee and elbow strikes to our melee fights with the sword and so much more without it. So, yes, it does indeed help and work better with her skillset. Also, just because someone is racially specialized towards magic does not mean they want to or need to be a mage. She's also racially gifted with more strength then normal but would could have gone any other direction than using a fuck huge sword.

What I'm saying is I'm alll for magic. I want magic. Debuffs across the land. I'm saying, right now, magic is not the best choice, narratively or otherwise. There are better options that fit more.

Another sword so she can train and share time with Steph? The daggers so we can turn her into a meme that carries blades on her person at all times, both big and small? Magic is a great option, I support it and you.

It's just not time.

 

[UberJJK]

It sounds like a better voting method, and would be neat for next vote. However, it leaves a sour aftertaste scrapping the current vote because of it. I'm not surprised that not a single one of the people you credited for the idea has voted for the winning option.

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...you do realize I made my first post calling out the issues literally ten minutes after the current winning vote (Littlest Leader) was first posted right? Hell it was less then an hour after the update. I'd call it a bad approch even if I was winning and my second post on the topic was made when I thought Reinforcing Strength was winning, it wasn't until someone posted a tally I noticed it wasn't. Hell I don't even particularly mind The Littlest Leader winning; it is a good vote.

I get being upset that the plan you supported, and was winning, getting negated hurts but I find it pretty insulting that you'd suggest I'd go to this much effort to get a vote overturned.

 

[Mother Nyx]

Yes, you two didn't vote for the winning option and the other 3 all voted for the runner-up. Like I said, I'm not surprised that this is coming from you 5.

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Yo, chill. @Gazetteer is good Civ.

Also, let's all be good sports about this. I understand feelings are involved. If anyone should be upset it's me.

But, Kei is working hard to make this so it's the best it can be, so it's all just take a step back. Discuss it like the adults we all either are or in my case pretend to be, lmao.

 

[Kei]

I missed a few things on the way and need to go back and answer them now. x_x

@Kei
You know, since there was an argument about this, I sure would love your voice about how effective unamed combat actually is.

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Advanced unarmed combat is an improvised alternative when weapons are, for whatever reason, inaccessible. It'll provide you a modicum of self-defense in the absence of a weapon (and also potentially pulling off non-lethal takedowns), and you may even be able to turn the tables on armed but much less skilled opponents, but bar niche situations, you generally want to have a weapon on hand.

@Kei How big are the magic staffs, are they all one size or many different sizes?

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Think Gandalf's staff in Lord of the Rings. There are slight variations in sizes, but it doesn't depart too much from that.

It sounds like a better voting method, and would be neat for next vote. However, it leaves a sour aftertaste scrapping the current vote because of it. I'm not surprised that not a single one of the people you credited for the idea has voted for the winning option.

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Let's please not get into conspiracy theorizing. @Gazetteer (who runs an awesome quest here) and @VagueZ (who runs an awesome quest here) check my work from time-to-time because I've known both of them for a decade now (I brought both to SV), have RPed with them for as long, and at least one of them expressed concern about this before I even posted this update. @Candesce has also been a supporter of my writing for a long time, and has been fine remaining in the background oftimes except when I needed help. @UberJJK has defended themselves. This has nothing to do with them trying to salvage a vote that wasn't going their way, and everything to do with me being an incompetent QM who rushed out an update because I loathe myself for not being able to update in a timely manner.

 

[Tnoz]

I'm in favor of magic more for Neianne's own sake rather than for the team. She's not going to be with her team forever, or necessarily in charge of any future team she joins, after all. Plus, Elizabeth's goal of attaining total mastery of magic should have her learn support magic eventually, though no guarantee that she'll prioritize it over flashier spells, or that she'll even learn it before we graduate and only bother to do so some time afterwards.

I mentioned before that I want to experiment with self buffs. To wield her Buster Sword with greater strength and dexterity than would otherwise be possible. I like the idea of her one-handing her BFS while sprinting across the field while her foes promptly turn around and leg it. That's the main draw for me, and I also think about her selecting which enemy to debuff and how since learning to use the Buster Sword taught her that she needs to think ahead to beat opponents.

Although I've seen so many healer MCs in quests across all websites that I can understand some frustration with it. It's not exactly glamorous, and maybe the secondary weapon should be an actual weapon that Neianne can use in situations she can't use the BS. A short sword or spear for tight quarters or nimbler enemies. Something that gets her out of a jam when plans fail, the situation was misread, or she's surprised and caught flatfooted.

Decisions, decisions.

Well, maybe waiting and learning magic through osmosis with our friends in the meantime might be better after all. Though since now we have to select a new weapon for the year, it would be worthwhile to discuss alternatives if anyone doesn't want to pick magic.

 

[Omniatrix]

What I'm saying is I'm alll for magic. I want magic. Debuffs across the land. I'm saying, right now, magic is not the best choice, narratively or otherwise. There are better options that fit more.

Another sword so she can train and share time with Steph? The daggers so we can turn her into a meme that carries blades on her person at all times, both big and small? Magic is a great option, I support it and you.

It's just not time.

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If you're really all for magic, then the same issue applies to magic as to any other secondary weapon. As we're just now gaining "competence" with our buster sword, leaving the staff until our third year is going to mean we only have time to gain "competence" with that. In fact, that argument is more true of magic - magic is an entirely new discipline, completely separate from melee combat, and is likely to require an entirely different skillset. While something like dual daggers is also very, very different from the buster sword, it's not an entirely different discipline. Far more skills will transfer from buster sword to dagger than from buster sword to healing and buff/debuff magic. It makes more sense to start with the magic and take the secondary melee weapon in our third year, just so we can make up for that "entirely different paradigm" issue.

And once again, healing magic opens up far more opportunities outside straight combat, opportunities that a secondary edged weapon do not open for us. I'd rather be very skilled at buster sword and healing and have a slight weakness in extreme close quarters than to be a perfect all-around melee combatant with healing just kind of tacked on as an afterthought.

 

[Mother Nyx]

If you're really all for magic, then the same issue applies to magic as to any other secondary weapon. As we're just now gaining "competence" with our buster sword, leaving the staff until our third year is going to mean we only have time to gain "competence" with that. In fact, that argument is more true of magic - magic is an entirely new discipline, completely separate from melee combat, and is likely to require an entirely different skillset. While something like dual daggers is also very, very different from the buster sword, it's not an entirely different discipline. Far more skills will transfer from buster sword to dagger than from buster sword to healing and buff/debuff magic. It makes more sense to start with the magic and take the secondary melee weapon in our third year, just so we can make up for that "entirely different paradigm" issue.

And once again, healing magic opens up far more opportunities outside straight combat, opportunities that a secondary edged weapon do not open for us. I'd rather be very skilled at buster sword and healing and have a slight weakness in extreme close quarters than to be a perfect all-around melee combatant with healing just kind of tacked on as an afterthought.

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My overall argument is that we only need competence with magic as opposed to the mastery of the blade.

The archetype I am going for is the smol melee murder machine with a hint of magic.

Leave the specializing to Elizabeth.

Edit: My eyes are on dual daggers or katana.

 

[UberJJK]

Think Gandalf's staff in Lord of the Rings. There are slight variations in sizes, but it doesn't depart too much from that.

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@Kei - So since the Staff is proper quarterstaff length will learning the Staff just be learning support magic or will it also cover using the Staff as a quarterstaff?

I ask because I think people would be happier with the Staff as our secondary weapon if they knew we could, if need be, just beat people to death with it. Quarterstaff were historically pretty effective weapons even if they were more for the traveling man rather then soldiers on the battlefield.

 

[The Laurent]

My overall argument is that we only need competence with magic as opposed to the mastery of the blade.

The archetype I am going for is the smol melee murder machine with a hint of magic.

Leave the specializing to Elizabeth.

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Also, how are you going to alter your vote? You no longer actually need to vote for a Social Slot. And also other changes.

 

[Kei]

@Kei - So since the Staff is proper quarterstaff length will learning the Staff just be learning support magic or will it also cover using the Staff as a quarterstaff?

I ask because I think people would be happier with the Staff as our secondary weapon if they knew we could, if need be, just beat people to death with it. Quarterstaff were historically pretty effective weapons even if they were more for the traveling man rather then soldiers on the battlefield.

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They're not ideal as quarterstaves - like, ultimately, this is an expensive wooden stick, painstakingly crafted, that you're using as a catalyst for magecraft - and it's not going to out-melee a proper melee weapons, but in terms of simple physics, hitting people with a hard stick really hurts.

 

[Spectrum]

The archetype I am going for is the smol melee murder machine with a hint of magic.

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aka Paladin (given we're discussing healing magic), one of the archetypes I've had on the table for shading Neianne into for awhile.

Go into an area, murderblend people, patch people up in the aftermath. Got downtime or doing prep work? Neianne can heal or potentially buff instead while other people are doing talky stuff if circumstances haven't dictated that she really is in command.

 

[Megaolix]

And now I feel validated about unarmed combat. We're no going flying martial arts with it, it's really a 'weapon' of last resort.

 

[The Laurent]

And now I feel validated about unarmed combat. We're no going flying martial arts with it, it's really a 'weapon' of last resort.

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Well, yeah? It's a sidearm without the sidearm.

The Buster Sword is our main weapon, or at least that's the idea.

 

[Megaolix]

Well, yeah? It's a sidearm without the sidearm.

The Buster Sword is our main weapon, or at least that's the idea.

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Yes, but then I know some did not realize that. Like Lazy Minx.

Do... do you know what martial arts are? That's what this is. It's teaching her martial arts. Neianne has a lot of strength already.

Formal training will not only give her more strength but the speed and the flexibility to use it.

All that stuff you are taking about, range? Does not matter. It literally will not matter because Neianne will be trained to negate all that.

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Ultimately, if we take down someone in unarmed combat, then we had no business getting disarmed to start with, unless we were in a social event or something.

 

[Mother Nyx]

Also, how are you going to alter your vote? You no longer actually need to vote for a Social Slot. And also other changes.

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So, this is the way the new vote will be:

We will be implementing categories. One vote will be dedicated to learning a new weapon. Four votes will be dedicated to other academic subjects, including doubling down on intensive training for the buster sword. This is because while I will always assume that Neianne is spending some time training with a weapon that is basically ubiquitous to her character now, I want to give you the choice as to whether she's going to be "good enough with a buster sword by Caldran mercenary standards but with a pretty wide skillset" or "actually really good with a buster sword for someone who just got out of a Caldran mercenary academy".

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The new vote is this.
In choosing a new weapon I want either [ ] Dual Daggers or [ ] Katana. Basically another melee weapon to use in short quarters combat for finesse when the Buster Sword isn't feasible.
For the four votes for other academic subjects, I am sticking to what I chose before in [ ] Strategy and Logistics and [ ] Tactics and Command but adding either [ ] Etiquette and doubling down on Buster Sword training.

Basically. This plan leads to the good leader, melee murder archetype I'm hoping for while taking the Etiquette class leads to more lulz in watching Neianne stumble through with the people who I assume need this class like Penelope or Wendy. (Can you fucking even imagine?)

 

[UberJJK]

They're not ideal as quarterstaves - like, ultimately, this is an expensive wooden stick, painstakingly crafted, that you're using as a catalyst for magecraft - and it's not going to out-melee a proper melee weapons, but in terms of simple physics, hitting people with a hard stick really hurts.

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I mean quarterstaff are already painstaking crafted expensive wooden sticks. Not to the extent of a magical staff I'd bet since that probably require some super special wood and the like but making a quarterstaff historically wasn't exactly easy. You needed a whole tree trunk, a fairly large one at that, to make just four staffs (primary theory behind the name) and despite what some movies might tell you they had to be smooth. You could get away with a rough one if needed but ideally you wanted something smooth enough you could easily slide your hands up and down the staff.

That being said I'm guessing then that the answer to me question is; no the class doesn't involve teaching you how to use it like a staff? So any staff on head action will be purely improvisational on Neianne's behalf.

 

[The Laurent]

So, this is the way the new vote will be:



The new vote is this.
In choosing a new weapon I want either [ ] Dual Daggers or [ ] Katana. Basically another melee weapon to use in short quarters combat for finesse when the Buster Sword isn't feasible.
For the four votes for other academic subjects, I am sticking to what I chose before in [ ] Strategy and Logistics and [ ] Tactics and Command but adding either [ ] Etiquette and doubling down on Buster Sword training.

Basically. This plan leads to the good leader, melee murder archetype I'm hoping for while taking the Etiquette class leads to more lulz in watching Neianne stumble through with the people who I assume need this class like Penelope or Wendy. (Can you fucking even imagine?)

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I mean, I definitely want the doubling-down/extra class on Buster Sword. And, Etiquette could be interesting, but I do wonder.

Like, if we're going for leadership of individual squads, there are a lot of options that could also make sense?

For instance, tracking and scouting is pretty important for squad-tactical challenges. Being able to track enemies and scout ahead to make sure you're not running into a trap, etc, etc. Plus it's probably useful information for life-skills as well.

...now I'm imagining a wandering Neianne (sp?) tracking down a deer to eat because of lack of coin, and then killing it with a Buster Sword, and it's hilarious overkill.

******

That's not the only option, either. Just saying, there's a lot to look at for an extra slot.

 

[Mother Nyx]

Yes, but then I know some did not realize that. Like Lazy Minx.



Ultimately, if we take down someone in unarmed combat, then we had no business getting disarmed to start with, unless we were in a social event or something.

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Except the explanation given still makes it a better option for when we can't use our Buster Sword than a Staff is. We aren't going to be taught how to use the Staff in melee combat. If we use it like that it'll just be unskilled flailing.

So, Unarmed combat is/was still a viable option. Honestly, lmao. Kei says that it's better to have a weapon, and that was never what I was arguing against. What Kei didn't say is that it's better to have a weapon and use it in a way that you're not trained to.

 

[serra2]

So, for a revised Leader plan, replace []Tome with []Staff, because the paladin idea is pretty good. Both []Strategy and []Tactics seem like a good idea, and I would love to do []Commerce for both the wider view on how wars are run, how to actually make money, and for the conversations it will prompt with members of our team. And, of course, []Buster Sword, to improve our swole.

 

[UberJJK]

In choosing a new weapon I want either [ ] Dual Daggers or [ ] Katana. Basically another melee weapon to use in short quarters combat for finesse when the Buster Sword isn't feasible.

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Might I suggest the war-hammer as a close range melee weapon? So long as it isn't the silly fantasy version (@Kei - Can you confirm?) they are actually a pretty reasonable choice. They synergize with Dryad super-strength since they are a bashing weapon, aren't a skill based weapon (like swords) and thus reasonable to learn in a single year, and are actually pretty small.

Seriously a proper historical war-hammer isn't much bigger then a normal everyday hammer. Mostly because you needed to swing it about a lot and fairly quickly; just imagine trying to do that with a sledge hammer let alone the giant war-hammers you see so often in fiction.

If it was an option I'd probably suggest a mace or war-axe over a war-hammer since the former is easier while the latter is more versatile but as it is the war-hammer is the only low skill, high impact, close quarters weapon on the list.

 

[Candesce]

Plus, Elizabeth's goal of attaining total mastery of magic should have her learn support magic eventually, though no guarantee that she'll prioritize it over flashier spells, or that she'll even learn it before we graduate and only bother to do so some time afterwards.

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Plus.

Do you really want Elizabeth to be your medic? Really?

I mean, I definitely want the doubling-down/extra class on Buster Sword.

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I'd like it if Neianne continued the beast-slayer specialization, which definitely means doubling down on the buster.

 

[GGreader]

Now I'm leaning a bit to staff, just for Neianne can beat people with it lol.

Still going for Advanced unarmed combat too, for non-letal takedowns and a little bit suplex.

I will also vote for buster sword first as I like to specialize character and want Neianne to be great with them.

Leadership also important too.

 

[Mother Nyx]

I mean, I definitely want the doubling-down/extra class on Buster Sword. And, Etiquette could be interesting, but I do wonder.

Like, if we're going for leadership of individual squads, there are a lot of options that could also make sense?

For instance, tracking and scouting is pretty important for squad-tactical challenges. Being able to track enemies and scout ahead to make sure you're not running into a trap, etc, etc. Plus it's probably useful information for life-skills as well.

...now I'm imagining a wandering Neianne (sp?) tracking down a deer to eat because of lack of coin, and then killing it with a Buster Sword, and it's hilarious overkill.

******

That's not the only option, either. Just saying, there's a lot to look at for an extra slot.

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Laureeeenttttt, you're falling into the trapppp. Like, yeah, I agree with you those options sound interesting. I honestly am super interested in what the History and Lore class would be like. But, look at our team and tell me you don't think we're better off just being the spear point of an assault? Like, these are things Neianne can learn but are also things Elizabeth and Sieglinde would not care for and that needs to be taken into account. Lisa is not a Stealth or Scout Specialist. She doesn't fit on that type of team.

 

[Spectrum]

Might I suggest the war-hammer as a close range melee weapon? So long as it isn't the silly fantasy version (Kei - Can you confirm?) they are actually a pretty reasonable choice. They synergize with Dryad super-strength since they are a bashing weapon, aren't a skill based weapon (like swords) and thus reasonable to learn in a single year, and are actually pretty small.

Seriously a proper historical war-hammer isn't much bigger then a normal everyday hammer. Mostly because you needed to swing it about a lot and fairly quickly; just imagine trying to do that with a sledge hammer let alone the giant war-hammers you see so often in fiction.

If it was an option I'd probably suggest a mace or war-axe over a war-hammer since the former is easier while the latter is more versatile but as it is the war-hammer is the only low skill, high impact, close quarters weapon on the list.

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I'm a little surprised that Warhammer is being offered straight up instead of starting at Mace/Morning Star/Club line. Buster Sword was there only after specialization after starting lower. @Kei are you changing how that system works?

 

[Mother Nyx]

Might I suggest the war-hammer as a close range melee weapon? So long as it isn't the silly fantasy version (@Kei - Can you confirm?) they are actually a pretty reasonable choice. They synergize with Dryad super-strength since they are a bashing weapon, aren't a skill based weapon (like swords) and thus reasonable to learn in a single year, and are actually pretty small.

Seriously a proper historical war-hammer isn't much bigger then a normal everyday hammer. Mostly because you needed to swing it about a lot and fairly quickly; just imagine trying to do that with a sledge hammer let alone the giant war-hammers you see so often in fiction.

If it was an option I'd probably suggest a mace or war-axe over a war-hammer since the former is easier while the latter is more versatile but as it is the war-hammer is the only low skill, high impact, close quarters weapon on the list.

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If we were not using a Buster Sword, yeah.

Plus.

Do you really want Elizabeth to be your medic? Really?

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Of course I do. Have you not seen how absolutely electrifying her beside manner is?