Guys. Guys. I'm begging, begging, you to read her speech of what makes a leader and then ask yourselves why you think she didn't take command. Please.

Forcing someone to take a stance they don't think they're ready for, don't think they are qualified for, never ends well.
perhaps not, but perhaps we can get something out of it. I'd really rather not have Elizabeth become squad leader, which means either we give Sieg a swift kick in the ass, or either Neinenne or Stephanie decide to buck up and take command. Call me crazy, but I want a fucking chain of command in place for at least the squad since we've got 2 of the strongest students in the academy.
 
I have a feeling Neianne will become squad leader, to be honest. Elizabeth does not want to lead either. She just does not want to be lead by someone she considers weak, which is why she keeps pushing Annie the way that she does.

Lmao, even look at what she was saying in this update, she's molding Nei. It's hilarious.
 
Yes, I remember her speech where she narrowly defines leadership in such a way that she's no good at it, and lets herself say she's not responsible.

I view this as restarting that conversation where we ask if the group believing in her personal competence would have somehow been worse then what happened where someone with a lack of competence was making decisions.
 
Yes? There is nothing worse for moral than someone you know to be competent failing either the speech check or the leadership check.

Because then it goes from, at least Sieglinde is here too, to not even Sieglinde can help us.

Just let her do what she's good at, which isn't leading.

Edit: Like, look. I get it. Linda is cool as fuck, I agree wholeheartedly. But, she isn't and does not want to be a leader. What she is is a murderblender in the same way that Elizabeth is a magic death cannon. They're only going to get better at their jobs, true, but just let them be great at their jobs. They are the monsters, the trump card characters. Elizabeth in particular is the wildcard. With that said, that very obviously leaves the position for the squad leader for Team N.E.S.S. wide open.

Open, in my opinion, for Neianne. I mean, isn't this supposed to be about her growth?

Remember this?
How far ahead Sieglinde already is as someone who has been groomed since youth to be a competent leader is certainly something that you respect, even if it is representative of the social advantages she has enjoyed since birth, but it certainly doesn't help your sense of confidence. You decided to embark on the path of a Caldran mercenary for what may be considered a selfish reason: You wanted to change. More specifically, you are unhappy with how you're the shy little dryad. All those grand goals that people have for becoming a freeholder - wanting to be of use like Vesna, wanting to embark on an adventure like Emilie, wanting to earn your own livelihood like Nikki, wanting to protect your country like Sieglinde - are probably nothing more than lofty dreams if you yourself are a sheltered little girl, uncertain and unconfident, ignorant of the wider world around you. Ascending the ranks of the Caldran mercenaries is, for you, both a means and an end; it is a potential confidence-booster and character-builder through which you can find the insight and the personal fortitude to pursue true goals of your own.

This is proving to be a difficult prospect already, given the makeup of your squad, which has been designated Squad Four. Sieglinde goes without mention. Your very own roommate, Stephanie, is also more physically fit and already knows her way around with a sword; she reluctantly but quickly admits that she doesn't hold a candle next to shining stars such as Sieglinde and Aphelia, but that's still much better than where you are at present. Both are outperforming you where calisthenics are concerned, and while you find solace in the fact that you and Stephanie are on the same page academics-wise, it doesn't exactly help your sense of confidence.

Even back then she was looking up to Linda, seeing her as the ideal. Don't you think it'd be more fun for us, and better for Neianne, to grow into Sieglinde's ideal? To become someone that can inspire others and stand next to everyone in her team as an equal, even in her own mind?
 
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I'm torn on whether or not to talk to Sieglinde about her choice not to take command. Personally, I'd rather not push her into a role she doesn't want or to rebuke her for her decision, but I'm still interested in the conversation.

Actually, it comes to mind, looking over the conversation where Sieglinde declared she would make a poor leader, that that's actually something she didn't directly say and we never asked about, but it's still the impression I got. We talked about what makes a good leader, and she described why she believed she would make a poor one, but we never asked whether she actually wants to be a leader. She won't, eventually, have a choice of course, as she'll eventually be a viscountess, but that's still not a great reason to try to push for her to lead now.

So, I'd like to know that about her, and I'd like to see her turn the question around, to get Neianne to think about why, if she feels Sieglinde should be willing to try to lead when she doesn't feel capable, why shouldn't Neianne have considered it. But, on the other hand, I don't want to push Sieglinde, to make her feel like Neianne is one more person putting that sort of pressure on her.
 
[x] Do not ask Stephanie about her mysterious abilities.
[x] Do not ask Sieglinde why she did not take command last night.
[x] You should just let everyone relax, yourself included.


Ladies and also ladies, the most boring possible vote!

But honestly... Stephanie knows we saw her do Weird Stuff. If she wants to tell us, she can. If she doesn't want to, we can respect that I think. On Sieglinde... I really just don't see any way to question her on that choice at this time that doesn't come off as blaming her, which is counterproductive even if we do want to blame her.

On the other topics... I dunno, I don't like the current write-in much - if we feel that way we should do something about it, but I think it'd be better addressed by action going forward than talking about it now - but can't come up with anything better.
 
[x] Do not ask Stephanie about her mysterious abilities.
[x] Do not ask Sieglinde why she did not take command last night.
[x] You should just let everyone relax, yourself included.
 
[x] Do not ask Stephanie about hermysterious abilities.
[x] Do not ask Sieglinde why she did not take command last night.
[x] You should just let everyone relax, yourself included.

Chill out dawg.

Also. Maybe. By some magic spooky shit.

Siegelinde doesn't actually have a soul.
 
[x] Do not ask Stephanie about hermysterious abilities.
[x] Do not ask Sieglinde why she did not take command last night.
[x] You should just let everyone relax, yourself included.
 
Hrrm....He that is faithful in least, is faithful in most...
By the sounds of it, Sieglinde doesn't want the weight of her team relying on her...Maybe if we phrase it differently.

[x] Do not ask Stephanie about her mysterious abilities.

Step's trick is only useful for Step. If there's rules and conditions around it beyond "will fry your weapon once it's over" She can come forward with this.

[x] Ask Sieglinde why she did not take command last night.
-[x]write in:
"Sieg, I'd like to ask why you didn't take command. Not because I blame you-I backed Lucille thinking stability was better then trying to coerce you or Elizabeth. But that didn't go well, and frankly... Stephanie and I are commoners, and I'm a tiny stuttering little thing on top of that, and Stephanie probably doesn't know much about leadership nor want it Do you Stephanie? (after that bit's done)

"If Elizabeth wanted to lead, she would have done it. And if you don't want to lead, then by being last woman standing, it's going to be me. I might not be good at speeches but I WAS the one who made the call to try and save Wendy, and I have a sword that looks like it's almost as big as my body. So, how about this: I'll see about learning how to lead, and you back me up. Is that acceptable Sieglinde? Stephanie? Elizabeth?"

[x] You should just let everyone relax, yourself included.
I don't think anything else needs discussing.

Effectively, this I think is the thing: Sieg wants her teammates to back her up. She doesn't want to be left with adoring fanboys who sit back and leave her to fight-I think she gets enough of that treatment back home that she gets sick of it. Sooo supporting someone else's taking to the fore is something she should heartily throw herself behind. And we've been saying we want to change, right? This is folding the two arcs into each other all. And possibly moving waaay too fast with Neianne's character arc but then again maybe not given the implied montage with Sieg teaching us how to lead.
 
As far as i've understood it, Sieglinde's problem is with people relying entirely on her rather than with being made leader, and that she'd be fine with leading as long as everyone thought for themselves and pulled their own weight.

Honestly, in this group she's the best leader candidate, and forcing anyone else into that role is just as bad or worse than forcing her into it.

I don't think she was wrong in not taking over back then, but i do think she was wrong in not helping. And she honestly have to get over that, because even if she never wants to lead anything ever again, there could very well be a chance she doesn't have a choice in the future. And when/if that happens, just going 'I don't want to' isn't good enough.
 
As far as i've understood it, Sieglinde's problem is with people relying entirely on her rather than with being made leader, and that she'd be fine with leading as long as everyone thought for themselves and pulled their own weight.

I'd say she believes she is bad at leading, and she doesn't really want the job, but people tend to rely on her anyway.
 
It's still grating, because she knew hiding in the rooms was the wrong move for both our squad, and the entire wing, and she went along with it.

Was she looking for... permission to not do stupid things? If the squad ever gets into a lurch and needs her help, is she going to go 'well, I'm not the responsible type, so I really shouldn't be trying to keep people safe'? If we had asked her to help, would she have done anything different? Does she feel people need to display some value or basic competence before she allows herself to help them out?

Or was she just afraid? Was she terrified of being in charge when someone died, scared of being pushed into a leadership position, and just mentally was spinning her wheels?

We already know she has some antipathy to leadership, but is she also scared of giving advice? Suggestions? Asking questions? I can see Elizabeth going 'fuck these other squads, if they can't figure it out I'm too sleepy to care' but Sieglinde doing nothing, even when she knew others wanted her help, is perplexing.

There are lots of reasons she may have decided not to do anything, and why she does things is kinda important to understand, I think.
 
I'd say she believes she is bad at leading, and she doesn't really want the job, but people tend to rely on her anyway.
In that case the best option might be to try for some 'everyone leads partially/together' kind of deal. But that's something we'd have to work towards as a group, and to get that far we need to know everyone's opinion, in detail, which is why i think we should ask her about it.
 
The problem right now is people reinterpreting what Sieglinde said to for their narrative.

No, she meant exactly what she said, exactly how she said it.

Edit: Basically, Linda has flaws guys, who knew. Accept them and move on.
 
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To me the problem isn't so much Sieg doesn't wanna take charge...It's that she doesn't wanna and due to her lack of social interaction most people don't even KNOW she's not gonna take charge. Like once isn't too bad but if it starts cropping up again and again it's going to look back for her, and possibly by extension, the rest of Squad Four. Like we were surprised she didn't go for taking charge in that situation-if it comes up again and people don't even widely know she doesn't want to, much less her why...

Like this is the kind of thing that if Penelope and Wendy found out about and agreed she should have helped they get to have a FIELD day preaching about how Nobles are stuck up their own butts. It doesn't help that Neianne is potentially going to be a rising star as far as common-born go, and I don't think letting Sieg's desire to not take charge turn into a slur against all the nobles is wise. Especially when...There's what, six Noble familes? Five? And now if we count Lucille's failure, that's now three of them with heirs that could be seen as being unable to live up to Caldren Mercenary standards.

That's why my write-in suggests Sieg teaching Neianne how to lead crossed with going through the list and crossing off the rest of the squad-if anyone wants to speak up, they can. So if Elizabeth thinks it'd be that bad for us to lead, she can step in. Stephanie gets two occassions to voice her mind. And even if I'm wrong about Sieg's motivations, she gets something of an out to taking up the leader's mantle-if she doesn't want to lead, she can back someone else, and drop the burden of leadership on them.
 
I don't want Neianne to be a leader, and i don't think she wants or is suited to it either. Sieg obviously don't think she's good at it, and don't want to because of that(and possibly other reasons we don't know about). Elizabeth might have potential, but she also definitely doesn't want the hassle. And i doubt Steph wants to be leader either. So we have to make a different system.

Edit: Or rather, aren't we actually fine as is?
 
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I don't want Neianne to be a leader, and i don't think she wants or is suited to it either.

I think Neianne is, potentially, incredibly well suited to being a leader, at least for her team. She pays attention to her teammates and respects their ideas and opinions, she's clever enough to use their talents effectively, and her teammates all respect her enough that they'd likely be willing to listen to her.

Her biggest weaknesses in leadership are that she doesn't even consider herself as being potentially capable, due both to a societal structure that emphasizes the importance of the aristocracy and due to her own interpersonal discomfort and fear, and that she hasn't been trained to lead.

Whether or not Neianne wants to lead, though, I think is mostly up to us. As best as I can interpret, she hasn't shown any reluctance to leading out of a desire to avoid it in the way that Sieglinde has so much as an expectation that she can't and that she shouldn't.

I haven't been pushing for her to think about it, to try, just because I want the player character to lead. I think she has the potential to be really good at it, and I think the other members of the team have traits that, at best, leave them no better suited to leadership than Neianne is.

Sieg obviously don't think she's good at it, and don't want to because of that(and possibly other reasons we don't know about). Elizabeth might have potential, but she also definitely doesn't want the hassle. And i doubt Steph wants to be leader either. So we have to make a different system.

I'd expect that if Neianne were to be chosen to lead, it wouldn't look much like a traditional military leadership style. Despite her newborn fawn demeanor, she has incredibly strong soft skills, and any leadership on her part would almost inevitably be collaborative, with her balancing competing personalities and encouraging teamwork.
 
[x] Do not ask Stephanie about her mysterious abilities.
[x] Do not ask Sieglinde why she did not take command last night.
[x] You should just let everyone relax, yourself included.
 
So i changed my mind about the whole leader thing.

Let everyone else worry about it! We don't need no leader, we need a Team. So we'll be a Team, the best Team.

The A Team.

And sure we can be all supportive of whoever is decided to be leader for the pansies that need leaders, but we'll be all badass about it because we're the A Team.

It'll be amazing.
 
You suppose it'd be relatively easy for the tall, strong Sieglinde to carry the tiny Elizabeth back to her room, at least.
Now, is Neianne wishing she was in Sieglinde's position or Elizabeth's? :3

"Some of the girls have probably died in the baths," she tells the two of you, cocking a thumb over her shoulder and towards the door to the baths.
"...go clean it up."? XD

And in the place of the nightmares you expected, you instead have a subconscious daydream - barely a dream - of being glomped by a pack of tiny, affectionate direwolf cubs with lots of play-biting and rapidly-wagging tails.
This is how Neianne is to regular direwolfs, too!

Stephanie sighs, "Just accept a compliment already. Don't make me go over there and wash you."
In b4 Neianne doesn't accept the compliment?

>.>

<.<

"Before you managed to do anything funny to me," Elizabeth quips in response, even as she steps into a bath nearest to the entrance, just a bit away from you and Stephanie, basking in the water with a look of self-content..
extra period

Also, clearly, yep should have been jealous of Sieglinde olol

[x] Ask Stephanie about her mysterious abilities.
-[x] In private at a later time.
--[x] Let her know you don't need to know, you're just wondering. You're still thankful she used these abilities to save you, even though she was trying to hide them.
[x] Do not ask Sieglinde why she did not take command last night.
[X] The four of you had no real cohesion as a squad. Figure out how to fix this?


I think that's about right.
Roomie can be roomie-fied, no need for in the baths.
Sieglinde is a minefield. She needs support because she's already going to get recriminations from outside. Poking the wound when she probably is burying her own guilt isn't going to do any good right now IMO.
And yeah, the issue was that Neianne just charged a target and it was assumed the squad would back her up. Someone needs to be able to give commands in the squad OR the squad needs to be so in tune that everyone just does things automatically and they're certainly not there yet.
 
The discussion over how to interpret Stephanie and Sieglinde really tickles me. I don't want to interrupt because I want people to come to their own conclusions, but it's a joy for me to read. ^_^

Also, holy crap, nine patrons already with a pledged total of US$96 already? And someone who made a US$50 pledge? o_o;

Thank you so much, everyone~ Every little bit helps, and I'll do my best to produce the best possible works I can. Please don't forget to tell all your friends. Let's go for twenty patrons~ X3
 
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