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Old Glory: A 1930s-Era Civil War Quest

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I think the Mississippi bridges follow a similar pattern to the railways. That is, there's concentrations up north in Hannibal or St. Louis with a smaller cluster of bridges in the southern tip at Cairo (and, I believe, Cape Girardeau).

I'd absolutely be on board for blowing the bridges in the southern part of Illinois, then. We have a lot more to lose from the Whites pushing into that part of the state and seizing oil + industry than we could gain from attacking over those bridges and seizing a couple minor railways. Plus, it'd naturally secure the Illinois operation from a southern counterattack if Patton manages to push all the way through the state. Neither side has the bridging capacity to put those back up quickly, but we don't really need to make any quick moves across the river there. I think we'd be very happy to have a quiet front along the river there.

If we're afraid of a push from St. Louis into the northern parts of Illinois, we might also consider taking a small (risky) swing at blowing the northern bridges and securing the flank, but I don't think I'm as on board with it. We're gonna want somewhere for Patton to launch an offensive of his own eventually, and by the same framework of 'possible gain' vs 'possible loss', those bridges pose a greater threat to the industrial and transit center at STL than they do to our cities in Illinois.

So, I'd say blow the bridges in Southern Illinois as we sweep through and make it an island, but don't mess with the bridges further up the Mississippi.
 
Edited my plan, Patton now makes bridges go boom.
Donkey Hote said:
Not securing NY is worse for our situation then getting pushed back some in the south. Freeing the NY units up to redeploy will let retake whatever might be lost if the Roosevelts push.
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We're not going to be pushing on our southern fronts next turn, as operations will be halted due to winter beginning to set in. But a winter offensive against the NY pocket is still an option next turn, and we'll be able to take a large amount of ground even with only 1 train as NORTHCOM's commander has experience with this.
 
Random Member said:
But a winter offensive against the NY pocket is still an option next turn, and we'll be able to take a large amount of ground even with only 1 train as NORTHCOM's commander has experience with this.
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That is in no way a good idea or a guarantee.
mouli said:
You might manage a winter campaign against the NY pocket tho
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mouli said:
[]Crush the Pocket: The enemy has had time build up fortifications and whip their militiamen into some sort of shape as light infantry. Their militiamen are locals and have a good grasp on the terrain. The area is not going to be easy and quick, but we can crush them and ensure that New York State is once more under loyal hands. An offensive from three axes – Pennsylvania, Mass, and NY. Slow, methodical, and emphasizing artillery preparation for assault. Recommended: 2-6 Regular Brigades, 6-8 Militia, 3 Armored Trains. Even a badly conducted or poorly resourced offensive will take some ground, seeing as the enemy does not have a reliable supply line.
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Random Member said:
[X]Crush the Pocket
-[X] VIII Corps (New York), IX Corps (Massachusetts), X Corps (Pennsylvania), New York Fortified Region and 1st Infantry Division 'Big Red One'
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Your plan only assigns 2/6 regulars, 8/8 militia, and 1/3 armored trains of the recommended forces, that is small gains at best, not large.
 
Donkey Hote said:
That is in no way a good idea or a guarantee.




Your plan only assigns 2/6 regulars, 8/8 militia, and 1/3 armored trains of the recommended forces, that is small gains at best, not large.
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Considering mouli replied with:
mouli said:
2) Pocket is probably dead this turn despite lower commitment, Parker is no slouch at assaults like this. This is where the Great War experience is useful. It is, however, slow.
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To a plan which only had 1 Regular more, but the same amount of trains (only 1) and 1 Militia unit fewer than my plan, I think the attack on the pocket will do just fine.
 
Baltika9 said:
I'm open to dropping VA and assigning those units to NY.
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Is there any particular changes to which units are assigned where that you'd like to see before you switch? I can certainly adjust Westcom to go for both Iowa and Montana.

Random Member said:
To a plan which only had 1 Regular more, but the same amount of trains (only 1) and 1 Militia unit fewer than my plan, I think the attack on the pocket will do just fine.
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Probably is insufficient for our logistics situation.
 
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The White forces trapped in the New York pocket are a little less than two brigades of regulars that have been cut off from supplies and information for months. They've dug in some, sure, but they're two brigades without resupply. Two brigades of our own regulars are at least an even match, with the train and militia support they should make acceptable progress.

It's a grudge match, too, half the pre-war 1st Infantry Division and their new friends against the other half and their new friends. That... might get ugly.
 
Crazycryodude said:
The White forces trapped in the New York pocket are a little less than two brigades of regulars that have been cut off from supplies and information for months. They've dug in some, sure, but they're two brigades without resupply. Two brigades of our own regulars are at least an even match, with the train and militia support they should make acceptable progress.
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There is also one brigade-equivalent of NY National Guard drawn from upstate, and they have militiamen that may have been hammered into some sort of fighting shape. There is also the munitions stores at Camp Drum. If it was just two undersupplied brigades, the force requirement would be less.
 
Just popping in to say I support blowing the bridges and settling on a defensive line against the river for the foreseeable future. Crushing the pocket and securing Illinois are my top priorities, everything else is secondary to shoring up defense.

Please, let's not get overly clever and ambitious here. If someone makes a plan with that in mind, I'm for it.
 
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[] Plan Reserved Pushes
WESTCOM
-[]Securing Copper Reserves
--[] I Corps and Theater Reserve (2 Militia, 1 Cav, 1 Armored Train)
-[]Securing Food: Secure Iowa, prioritizing food reserves followed by rail junctions
--[] Transfers and II Corps (1 Regular, 2 Militia, 1 Cav)
SOUTHCOM
-[]Secure Southern Illinois
--[] III Corps, IV Corps, Armored Train Fraternity, 2 Brigades from 7th​ Infantry Division, 4th​ Independent Cavalry Regiment, & 6th​ Infantry 'Division' (1 Regular, 2 Conscript, 5 Militia, 1 Cav, 1 Armored Train)
---[] Order Patton to also blow up the bridges across the Mississippi in South Illinois as he sweeps through the area.
-[]Dig In
--[] 80th ​Infantry Brigade, 32nd/33rd Infantry Division(s), 99th ​Infantry Brigade, 100th ​Infantry Brigade, and 101st​ Infantry Brigade
--[] 2 Brigades from 7th​ Infantry Division as mobile reserves.
-[] Transfer
--[] Armored Train Constitution to Northcom
EASTCOM
-[]Dig In
--[] Baltimore Fortified Region, Philadelphia Fortified Region, Theater Reserves, 2 Brigades from 10th​ Infantry Division, and remainder of VI Corps.
--[] Armored Train Washington and 2 Brigades from 10th​ Infantry Division to act as mobile reserves.
-[]Probing Assaults: Virginia
--[] VII Corps, 9th​ Infantry Division, and 109th​ Infantry Brigade. (1 Regular, 2 Militia)
-[] Transfer
--[] 11th​ Infantry Division to Northcom.
NORTHCOM
-[] Border Guards
--[] 117th​ Infantry Brigade
-[]Dig In
--[] 81st Infantry Brigade (Fortress)
-[]Crush the Pocket
--[] VIII Corps, IX Corps, X Corps, 114th​ Infantry Brigade, 11th​ Infantry Division, 1st​ Infantry Division, Armored Trains Constitution and Empire State. (2 Regular, 2 Conscript, 7 Militia, 2 Armored Train)
-[]Transfer Units
--[] 43rd​ Infantry Division and 5th​ Independent Cavalry Regiment to Westcom

Alternate plan I'm considering. This plan transfers less away from Eastcom but still gives Northcom an extra Armored Train and the 2 brigades of the artillery less 11th​ Infantry Division to beef up the attack on the pocket. Notably there is at least one armored train on each front. The Cavalry is moved from Northcom to Westcom where the terrain better suits it. Shifted assignments to have dedicated mobile reserves in both Southcom and Eastcom and have bath amalgamated units on full defense to improve their recovery. A light probe is assigned to hit Virginia. Thoughts?
 
It's a solid middle ground, I like the look of it. SOUTHCOM losing the Constitution might compromise the defenses a bit but with the bridges being blown that's less of a worry, and landing on the New York pocket with both feet does make me feel safer. We really do want that cleaned up, I was ok with playing it a little risky so we could get the copper reserves and a Virginia probe but I'm sold.
 
Crazycryodude said:
It's a solid middle ground, I like the look of it. SOUTHCOM losing the Constitution might compromise the defenses a bit but with the bridges being blown that's less of a worry, and landing on the New York pocket with both feet does make me feel safer. We really do want that cleaned up, I was ok with playing it a little risky so we could get the copper reserves and a Virginia probe but I'm sold.
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I'm going to edit it into my plan post as an approval vote.
 
[X] Plan Reserved Pushes

I think I'll change my vote to this for the moment. It addresses my main concerns (bulking up the attack on the pocket and having more troops dig in for a possible attack in SOUTHCOM) without completely sandbagging the operation in Illinois or the defense of Baltimore. It seems like a good middle ground, although we'll have to hope Illinois works out well.
 
I agree that reducing the pocket in NY is the most important attack at this time. It will free up most of the troops assigned to that front for deployment there, restores naval shipping across the great lakes improving our logistics, and takes several towns adding to our industry. In that area is also Rochester where the T1 tank prototype was build in 1927 followed by several more prototype tanks in the following years.
 
sunrise said:
I agree that reducing the pocket in NY is the most important attack at this time. It will free up most of the troops assigned to that front for deployment there, restores naval shipping across the great lakes improving our logistics, and takes several towns adding to our industry. In that area is also Rochester where the T1 tank prototype was build in 1927 followed by several more prototype tanks in the following years.
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To wit, the northern pocket "owns" Buffalo and Rochester, but at the beginning of the war both were SPA strongholds. They could hardly afford to do intense street combat or burn the cities to the ground, so I find it likely their hold on both cities is rather weak.
 
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