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It could be if kubo actually cared about anything he's ever established. Remember that in order to achieve bankai you have to physically manifest your zanpakuto spirit then fight them and win. Theoritically this means that a manifested spirit is a physical intity and could if they were so inclined fight on their weilder's behalf. Again this was never shown in the manga because kubo was a bad writter who constintly set things up that had no pay off.

no, that's how ichaigo got his banki because he was using spiritual steroids. he was using clog and hats shady drug as an aid because he did not have time to it properly. we've never seen a zanpakuto spirit manifested on it's own do more than talk.
 
no, that's how ichaigo got his banki because he was using spiritual steroids. he was using clog and hats shady drug as an aid because he did not have time to it properly. we've never seen a zanpakuto spirit manifested on it's own do more than talk.

Uh, no that's the standard method of attaining bankai. What Urahara's thing let him do was skip the 'learning to manifest your spirit' part.
 
thanks for that liz, was about to write 10000 word essay on the lore of the zanpakuto that kubo never used and honestly my mental health is bad enough as it is.
 
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no, that's how ichaigo got his banki because he was using spiritual steroids. he was using clog and hats shady drug as an aid because he did not have time to it properly. we've never seen a zanpakuto spirit manifested on it's own do more than talk.

what really? huh, still, assuming that "dule your master in a semi ceremonial dule" does not necessarily mean it can fight outside of that.

Yeah when Ichigo was doing his Bankai training Renji rocked up and we saw him manifest Zabimaru in front of Ichigo and Yoruichi. We didn't see any of his training following that, but we saw the spirit.

The '10 years to reach Bankai' is mostly the learning how to manifest the spirit outside yourself.

The fact that everyone predicted it from Day 1 doesn't make the twist any less dumb!

I do remember reading the theory in the early days of Bleach, but it was very much one of those fun Crack theories. The people who made the joke didn't actually believe it, it was just a way of mocking absurd theories with no basis. The recent modern equivalent would be 'Rose Quartz is Lion/Onion/Random background character who appeared once'

There were a bunch of good theories with strong evidence behind them that came out in early Bleach, like Urahara being the real villain, which you can make an interesting plausible story around.

What we got was horrendously dumb incoherent garbage instead.
 
Yeah when Ichigo was doing his Bankai training Renji rocked up and we saw him manifest Zabimaru in front of Ichigo and Yoruichi. We didn't see any of his training following that, but we saw the spirit.

The '10 years to reach Bankai' is mostly the learning how to manifest the spirit outside yourself.



I do remember reading the theory in the early days of Bleach, but it was very much one of those fun Crack theories. The people who made the joke didn't actually believe it, it was just a way of mocking absurd theories with no basis. The recent modern equivalent would be 'Rose Quartz is Lion/Onion/Random background character who appeared once'

There were a bunch of good theories with strong evidence behind them that came out in early Bleach, like Urahara being the real villain, which you can make an interesting plausible story around.

What we got was horrendously dumb incoherent garbage instead.
Urahara was originally intended to be the villain, that's why until Aizen becomes a thing they hide Urahara's eyes at all times.
 
One thing that occurred to me while reading the last chapter - how much does Chichimaru know about the rest of Nell's group and vice versa? After all, Findorr was in Las Noches since before Aizen arrived, and must have been there throughout all of Nelliel's tenure as an Espada. If nothing else, he must have known her by face.

On the other hand, Pesche and Dondochaka were probably the closest thing to social equals the Royal Fraccion had outside of their own group. Not counting Lilynette's weirdness, they were the only other Fraccion of a Vasto Lorde Espada. It is entirely possible that Pesche and Dondochaka were cordial acquaintances of Findorr's back in the old days.

I would be surprised if the members of the Eternal Playtime Group did not know who the others were before their fall from grace. (Except maybe Nell; it's hard to tell how far her amnesia goes.) On the other hand, it's very much up in the air whether they had a sharing session during their time together or if they just have theories about each other and are sticking to 'don't ask don't tell'.
 
On the other hand, Pesche and Dondochaka were probably the closest thing to social equals the Royal Fraccion had outside of their own group. Not counting Lilynette's weirdness, they were the only other Fraccion of a Vasto Lorde Espada. It is entirely possible that Pesche and Dondochaka were cordial acquaintances of Findorr's back in the old days.

The old Espada weren't quite the overpowered freaks of the new Espada. The original group were just the most powerful of the ones immediately on hand after Aizen took over Las Noches.

Aizen then went out of his way to scout out and recruit the Vasto Lorde (plus keeping non-Arrancar Barragan on hand). Despite her rank Nel wasn't a Vasto Lorde. Even if Nnoitra didn't ambush and cripple her she would have gotten displaced by someone eventually.
 
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The old Espada weren't quite the overpowered freaks of the new Espada. The original group were just the most powerful of the ones immediately on hand after Aizen took over Las Noches.

Aizen then went out of his way to scout out and recruit the Vasto Lorde (plus keeping non-Arrancar Barragan on hand). Despite her rank Nel wasn't a Vasto Lorde. Even if Nnoitra didn't ambush and cripple her she would have gotten displaced by someone eventually.
If she wasn't a Vasto, how was it that she regularly and consistently beat Nnoitra up until their last fight?

Nnoitra was acknowledged (in this quest) as the strongest Adjuhas-based arrancar in Las Noches, and was one of the earlier wishstone-made arrancars. Nelliel was in Las Noches a while before he was, so she was probably a natural arrancar. Despite that, Nnoitra had no chance against her in a fair fight and only managed to win by cheating with Szayel. I'm pretty sure that record pegs Nelliel as a lower-tier Vasto that lost a lot of power when breaking her mask, but not nearly enough to be confused for an Adjuhas.
 
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If she wasn't a Vasto, how was it that she regularly and consistently beat Nnoitra up until their last fight?

Nnoitra was acknowledged (in this quest) as the strongest Adjuhas-based arrancar in Las Noches, and was one of the earlier wishstone-made arrancars.

Note that Nnoitra was the 8th Espada at the time he and Nel clashed - he probably wasn't the "strongest adjuhas" at that time.

Note also that when Nel did her full release in the later fight, Nnoitra said she was weaker than the 6th - aka Grimmjow - in raw power. It seems pretty unlikely she was a Vasto.
 
If she wasn't a Vasto, how was it that she regularly and consistently beat Nnoitra up until their last fight?

Nnoitra was acknowledged (in this quest) as the strongest Adjuhas-based arrancar in Las Noches, and was one of the earlier wishstone-made arrancars. Nelliel was in Las Noches a while before he was, so she was probably a natural arrancar. Despite that, Nnoitra had no chance against her in a fair fight and only managed to win by cheating with Szayel. I'm pretty sure that record pegs Nelliel as a lower-tier Vasto that lost a lot of power when breaking her mask, but not nearly enough to be confused for an Adjuhas.

That I actually don't have a answer for...

In Canon, Nnoitra wasn't noted to have been "the most powerful Adjuchas" or anything like that. In fact there's a clear increase in his power over time as he manages to jump between 8th and 5th (accompanied by a change in the shape and complexity of his weapon). In Quest, Barragan noted that Nnoitra also managed to increase his strength until he was able to take the top Adjuchas-base Espada spot from what was originally a lower spot. So he wasn't peaked out when he broke his mask. Maybe there was a adjustment period for him?

In Quest and in Canon, the old Espada were composed of a different and weaker lineup that were supplanted by newer, more powerful members. In Quest, the old Espada were noted to be mostly members of Barragan's old court or those that were close by. Aizen had to range far and wide to find his other Vasto Lorde.

I highly doubt pre-Arrancar Barragan will keep another Vasto Lorde kicking around in or near his court or that Aizen will so carelessly toss away another Vasto Lorde through improper mask breaking or let Nnoitra just cripple her like that. It took him long enough to gather just 4.

Things are a bit murky here. It's better to just as Omicron for clarification probably. See how he wants to work this.
 
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Honestly, Nnoitra and Nel are a place where Bleach canon and Number None canon don't line up particularly seamlessly.

In base Bleach, Nel was the Third Espada at some undefined point in the past, at the same time Nnoitra was the Eighth Espada. Nnoitra was being sent around by Aizen to scout outlying hollow gatherings for really strong recruits and/or vasto lordes, and Nel was more or less hanging around and blocking him whenever he tried to commit a massacre for fun, easily beating him down. Then, with Szayel's help, he managed to cripple her, after which point he clawed his way up the ranks to become Espada 5. When Nel showed back up and gained her adult form, he claimed that the power scale had changed, and ranks that existed when Nel was an Espada were not comparable to the current ranks. Despite this fact, and despite Nnoitra actually having gotten obviously and non-trivially stronger in the interim, adult Nel pretty decisively thrashed Nnoitra in their fight; he was always on the defensive, taking nasty hits and unable to hurt her back, and the only reason she didn't kill him was because she ran out of gas and reverted to being a helpless child. This, even though all the time Nnoitra was training up for their rematch and growing stronger, Nel was wandering the desert in a mentally and physically crippled state not fighting.

In Number None, we don't know much about Nel, but Nnoitra, long before becoming an arrancar, was a roving disaster, who butchered his way straight through a literal army of hollows including a dozen or more gillians and probably half a dozen adjuchas. He was the Killing Moon, widely regarded as absolutely invincible and murderous, recognizable from a long ways off. The strongest adjuchas to ever live. It's really hard to reconcile that with Nnoitra who was, after being made an arrancar as one of Aizen's special wishstone freaks, only the eighth most powerful Espada, in a group of Espada overall less powerful than the current batch. Plus, a group of Espada who don't really believe in growing more powerful via training, even though Nnoitra clawed his way up the ranks and got considerably stronger in the process.

If I was going to try to reconcile it, I think I'd have to go with something like saying Nnoitra's demasking seemingly went poorly, and he actually lost a lot of power when he became arrancar, but he gained it back steadily. Thus, Rank 8 Espada Nnoitra is essentially a period when he was crippled by being an early Hogyoku experiment, and Rank 5 Espada Nnoitra is more like his power level was as the pre-arrancar Killing Moon Nnoitra. Nel was just always badass, but not particularly murderous; she'd rank somewhere above Nnoitra but below Ulquiorra in the current time period Espada. She wasn't legendary as the strongest Adjuchas because she didn't go around killing armies for fun, but she could have if she wanted to.
 
The strongest adjuchas to ever live.
He was only called the strongest Adjuchas by Cirucci, and it was right before their fight. I interpreted that as meaning "the strongest Adjuchas right now". Now, granted, he's not technically an Adjuchas being an arrancar and all, but it's effectively the same, like how Espadas 4 and up aren't technically Vasto Lordes but are still for all intents and purposes considered to be such by everyone anyway.
 
Despite this fact, and despite Nnoitra actually having gotten obviously and non-trivially stronger in the interim, adult Nel pretty decisively thrashed Nnoitra in their fight; he was always on the defensive, taking nasty hits and unable to hurt her back, and the only reason she didn't kill him was because she ran out of gas and reverted to being a helpless child. This, even though all the time Nnoitra was training up for their rematch and growing stronger, Nel was wandering the desert in a mentally and physically crippled state not fighting.
Also, during their rematch in the anime, Nel's mask is visibly chipped. Whether that means that she just burns through reiatsu faster, or that she's still weaker than she was before she got ganked is open to interpretation.
 
Being the strongest Adjuchas doesn't translate into being the strongest (or strong at all) Arrancar. Arrancars require control and finesse, strength is as important as other abilities like planning. I always read that as Nnoitra was the strongest Adjuchas to ever live, then he was made into Arrancar and lacked the qualities to translate his strength to his new form thus allowing others to jump in front of him. That also explains why he was so mad about Nel.
 
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