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Now You Feel Like Number None [Bleach Arrancar Quest]

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Well now this is interesting. First I'd rather accept the shadow, partially because I don't want to lose a growth path in res, and partially because I can understand and respect that shadow, and it is a part of Nemo. Hate may not always be a beneficial emotion, but it is part of being a person, and it isn't something a person is wrong to feel.

Now however we have the growth options and these are interesting.
Omicron said:
-[ ] Chains of Love and Hate. Once, you loved. Once, you hated. Then, you loved again. You have always been bound to another. When you issue Polilla's challenge, you may choose one target and form that bond with them. Your minds are revealed to one another, and you are always aware of each other's position.
  • With an ally, this allows for powerful teamwork. Your thoughts blend, enabling instant, speechless cooperation, and you never risk accidental friendly fire (No, this does not make them immune to your Cero). Additionally, you may grant an ally standing in shadow the benefits of your healing, though you may not benefit from it at the same time.
  • With an opponent, this bond becomes far more hostile: while you can read their next movements and locate them, their mind can glimpse only the most disturbing or confusing of your shadow-self's thought, while their awareness is flooded with warning of exactly where your consciousness lies: inside every shadow around them. Additionally, any time they expend considerable power while you are both in shadows, part of that energy flows back to you.
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This makes us an incredibly dangerous opponent, giving us weak combat precog and direction sense as well as boosting teamwork with Cirruci if Luppi isn't on the field. Incredible either single target offense or peerless teamwork, and is probably the best option for fighting an individual opponent. My personal favorite.
Omicron said:
-[ ] Vessel of Dust and Bone. You understand that the shadow is only yourself, that there is no other Nemo. You also understand that you could only ever thrive when there was someone at your side. Loneliness killed you. When you enter Resurreccion, your shadow splits from your shell, and both are one.
  • The vessel lacks your Resurreccion abilities and your High-Speed regeneration. It retains Bala, Cero, and its Hierro increases by one rank. It feels no pain and lacks vital organs - only total destruction or dismemberment can disable it.
  • The shadow lacks Bala, Cero, and any level of Hierro. It retains your Resurreccion powers, and your shadow-blade's ability to bypass defenses is enhanced. It is highly vulnerable, but can easily hide and misdirect while attacking in melee.
  • If either of these halves suffers lethal damage, it will rejoin with the other, returning you to your generic Master Resurreccion abilities (provided you have enough power left to heal the damage).
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Eh, this one is risky, as our defensive options are split between two bodies. We have a tank that can't fight in melee combat at all and doesn't heal, and a glass trickster with minimal direct offensive ability. Honestly this one doesn't interest me that much, as it gives some very dangerous vulnerabilities. Not bad though, and it'd be very interesting in a fight. Against single opponents chains of hate and love will probably serve better, and though when working with a team, with other people to help guard the shadow self, it might be better. still not as interesting to me as the chains of hate and love

Omicron said:
-[ ] Queen of Souls and Shadow. Alone in a collapsing church, facing Yumichika. Alone against Findorr, when Cirucci still only saw a servant in you. Alone against an endless army of the dead, watched on by a cruel trickster and a hapless friend. Before you earned respect, before you earned friendship, before you earned love - she was with you. She is you.
  • When you enter Resurreccion while in shadows, you rise up and hover in the air, losing the benefits of mobility. You can no longer use Sonido, and may only slowly hover. However, your Hierro and High-Speed Regeneration both improve by a full rank, to a maximum of Master/Fourth Blood.
  • Your Grave of Shadows and An Answer to Pain traits are massively upgraded. All shadows within the area become yours to wield as true weapons. You see through them, can stretch and move them at will, can form them into blades and bindings, and can use them to shield yourself from attacks. Though you cannot walk or fly, you can use the shadows as a form of quickened Descorrer to relocate yourself. You may still use shadows to fuel your energy attacks or your healing.
  • If all shadows in the area are banished, you return to your generic Master Resurreccion abilities.
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This one honestly sounds really damn interesting, but comments about it reducing the dynamism of fights have been brought up, and I'm of the mentality that if a person can't run they die. it makes us a wonderful tank but it also means we can't dodge major attacks anymore, and our tanking ability costs us energy, plus it means opponents can set up their offense since we can't really control the fight anymore. We also won't be able to do much if our opponent runs from us. Least favorite option.
 
Damn. I was nearly right. I was right she was declining and starving when she broke her mask, but alas, Privaron-tier Nemo wasn't a thing.

Anyway, onto the topic of the discussion, and I have one big point to make.

I think Yumichika is right.

Omicron said:
"Because," he continues underettered, "her past self is not her true self. She is not a sleeping demon, putting on a mask, playing games of pretend while waiting for the carnage to come. She is herself: the Captain of the Fourth, the greatest healer in Soul Society, a kind and nurturing soul, if one with a stern and disciplined mind. Who she was is still there, and it can be awakened. There is a sleeping demon. But it is not her true self. It is just a self."
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It's knowledge won from an enemy, knowledge won from someone who Nemo has crossed blades with. It's knowledge from someone who has no reason at all to lie to her.

The thing in Nemo's blade is not her true self. But it is a self. It's something that carried her through terrible times, something that kept her alive when nothing else would. It's something that's part of her history, and in the times ahead, she will need that determination, that single-hearted determination to endure a god might throw everything in her face.

It is a self, something which stays hidden away until it's needed. It's a scar on her past, and now she knows the truth. It's a reminder that yes, she can do terrible things.

So that's why I'd recommend Accepting her shadow. Because Yumichika is right. It is a Nemo, and it's a Nemo pushed to her very limits, starving and half-mad with grief for a century until she's hollowed out from her own hate. But it's not the Nemo who walks the waking world. Except now the shadowy Nemo understands her. She's cool, not callously cold. And now, as it says;

Omicron said:
You are its better half, and it will do anything to save your life. But it understands you now. It will no discard the things that have made you who you are; it will recognize your allies, its emotions muted rather than gone.
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Meanwhile, Aizen thought she might be a curiosity, then discarded her when she failed to be interesting. He tossed her to Kisuke and "deigned" to not punish her because she couldn't escape on her own. He didn't care that Ulquiorra left her to fight the former captain of the Kido Corps.

Yes, even Nemo's shadowy self is a better friend than Aizen. Which says a lot, really.

Just as Unohana brought out Yachiru when facing the King of the Dead, Nemo has the Queen of Shadows against God.
 
Reclaiming our shadow seems almost like rejecting it through consuming it. That time happened to Nemo, even if she just now remembered it. So I want to accept it, because it's been fighting for her all this time. Saying "I don't need you" to it just seems so...heartless to me.

I like both Chains of Love and Hate and Vessel of Dust and Bone. I prefer Love and Hate because Nemo has all been about forging connections, good or bad, with people around her. Nemo has never been just about herself, so her ressurection reflecting that seems the most appropriate to me.

I dislike Queen of Souls and Shadow. We move from a video game protagonist, dodging and flitting around the screen as we fight those stronger than us, to a video game boss. It's also the most "I stand alone" of the options, which I dislike. It's great against numerous weaker opponents...but Nemo's true enemies are not a horde of weaker opponents.
 
Omicron said:
The hate burned out everything else inside you, until it did not feel like hate anymore, until it just felt like… being.

You were left a hollow shell. An empty carapace.

A porcelain doll, full of shadow.
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Hooooooooooollllllllllooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww Kniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighhhhhhhhhhht.

:V
 
Queen of Souls and Shadow is actually extremely on-point to the Hollow Knight theme, and to how said theme interacts with the theoretical Aizen fight, though in an incredibly spoilery way.

When fighting the true final boss, which is a light-themed entity that once controlled the minds of all the bugs in the region, a wall of darkness rises up from the ground causing the boss to flee upwards. It starts emitting shadow spirits as you ascend, and at the very end your character casts off its body, becoming stationary, and starts whaling away at the boss with tentacles before the wall of darkness pulls the boss into the abyss using quite a few insect limbs of its own.
 
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cheesyme said:
Eh, this one is risky, as our defensive options are split between two bodies. We have a tank that can't fight in melee combat at all and doesn't heal, and a glass trickster with minimal direct offensive ability. Honestly this one doesn't interest me that much, as it gives some very dangerous vulnerabilities.
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Or looking at it another way, we have a stealthy rogue who can i-frame dodge and sneak-attack, and a blaster-mage with Sonido who can keep distance between itself and any enemies. The tactics with this would be for the vessel to stay at range and blast while the shadow i-frame Sonidos in and out of stabbing range doing murderslashes before vanishing into the Grave of Shadows again.
 
Music from Saya no Uta works quite well, frankly. Especially the scary and dirty beats.
Makes you feel the hate.
Omicron said:
-[ ] Queen of Souls and Shadow. Alone in a collapsing church, facing Yumichika. Alone against Findorr, when Cirucci still only saw a servant in you. Alone against an endless army of the dead, watched on by a cruel trickster and a hapless friend. Before you earned respect, before you earned friendship, before you earned love - she was with you. She is you.
  • When you enter Resurreccion while in shadows, you rise up and hover in the air, losing the benefits of mobility. You can no longer use Sonido, and may only slowly hover. However, your Hierro and High-Speed Regeneration both improve by a full rank, to a maximum of Master/Fourth Blood.
  • Your Grave of Shadows and An Answer to Pain traits are massively upgraded. All shadows within the area become yours to wield as true weapons. You see through them, can stretch and move them at will, can form them into blades and bindings, and can use them to shield yourself from attacks. Though you cannot walk or fly, you can use the shadows as a form of quickened Descorrer to relocate yourself. You may still use shadows to fuel your energy attacks or your healing.
  • If all shadows in the area are banished, you return to your generic Master Resurreccion abilities.
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Oh shit.
Nemo can become a metroidvania boss.
I can imagine a 2D game with her in it.

Shinigami Hero has to dodge around the emerging blades, claws and maws.
At random times thorough, she throws her shadowy Balas at you,
After enough time passes, she throws her Cero (at final stage making them a Gran Rey), which is the "holy shit get out of the way" cover-the-screen kind of attack.
Trying to get to Queen!Nemo results in her surrounding herself in shadow, dampening all damage. Shortly after, she teleports to other side of the room.
Then, after you cut down enough of her blade-things, she's revelaed- a hollow vessel, grey 'light' surrounding it, still floating in air.
Cut her down enough times, and you get a cutscene of the building around you falling apart, letting the light in.
Moth is gone. All that is left after her are porcelain shards.
 
...I am absolutely voting to accept our shadow. I find it far more thematically appropriate for Nemo to stop lying to herself and accept everything that she is.
 
Aleph said:
Or looking at it another way, we have a stealthy rogue who can i-frame dodge and sneak-attack, and a blaster-mage with Sonido who can keep distance between itself and any enemies. The tactics with this would be for the vessel to stay at range and blast while the shadow i-frame Sonidos in and out of stabbing range doing murderslashes before vanishing into the Grave of Shadows again.
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True and that might work, I just don't like having someone who could be gibbed so easily if they get unlucky. It could work, and I still like it more than the immobility of the queen of souls and shadows, I just don't like it as much as the chains of hate and love
PurposefulZephyr said:
Shortly after, she teleports to other side of the room.
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Omicron said:
-[ ] Queen of Souls and Shadow. Alone in a collapsing church, facing Yumichika. Alone against Findorr, when Cirucci still only saw a servant in you. Alone against an endless army of the dead, watched on by a cruel trickster and a hapless friend. Before you earned respect, before you earned friendship, before you earned love - she was with you. She is you.
  • When you enter Resurreccion while in shadows, you rise up and hover in the air, losing the benefits of mobility. You can no longer use Sonido, and may only slowly hover. However, your Hierro and High-Speed Regeneration both improve by a full rank, to a maximum of Master/Fourth Blood.
  • Your Grave of Shadows and An Answer to Pain traits are massively upgraded. All shadows within the area become yours to wield as true weapons. You see through them, can stretch and move them at will, can form them into blades and bindings, and can use them to shield yourself from attacks. Though you cannot walk or fly, you can use the shadows as a form of quickened Descorrer to relocate yourself. You may still use shadows to fuel your energy attacks or your healing.
  • If all shadows in the area are banished, you return to your generic Master Resurreccion abilities.
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note the 2nd bolded bit
 
cheesyme said:
True and that might work, I just don't like having someone who could be gibbed so easily if they get unlucky. It could work, and I still like it more than the immobility of the queen of souls and shadows, I just don't like it as much as the chains of hate and love


note the 2nd bolded bit
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In regards to your response to PurposefulZephyr

Though you cannot walk or fly, you can use the shadows as a form of quickened Descorrer to relocate yourself.
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Just a nitpick, I don't favor it.
 
Omicron said:
After all, you could not even walk.

But you had crawled.

And here you were.

God saw this, and found it unique. And He desired to see what would become of one such as this, in this moment of final weakness. What would become of you; stripped of everything but that drive, that will, that endurance, were you to be broken and set free.

The servant spoke in horror, said that for one so far devolved as you, on the brink of annihilation, such a transformation could only mean death. Your soul could never endure the strain, he claimed. Better to let you die than waste the effort on freeing you now.
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Man, Nemo really was the worst possible thing you could be to Aizen: momentarily interesting.

And it's one of those really fun things where looking back you can sort see echoes of it all throughout the quest. Nemo doesn't stop, she doesn't really give up, she pushes through pain and despair and impossible odds to Do The Shit She Thinks She Needs To Do. Even as an arrancar she has a habit of cannibalizing herself in a more metaphorical way, her tendency towards self-sacrifice has been noted before. But it's kinda fascinating because this puts such a different spin on it. It's not necessarily because Nemo is that invested in her friendships and relationships (although that's very much a part of it) but rather that Nemo, beneath everything, has a sorta spitefully stubborn core. This piece of her that goes "no, fuck you" and trudges on, which I kinda adore. It's what she did even after Aizen discarded her and it's kinda funny that in a very real way the explanation for his (hopeful) downfall was...really right there. The whole time.

She ate her wings and arms and was a collapsing mess, she wasn't going to stop just because he stopped looking.

But yeah this is one of those really solid revelations that does what it's supposed to do, it re-contextualizes a lot of existing information rather than necessarily being a big fucking twist. Although I kinda have to lol at @Omicron going "it's not that big tho".

>4k words

zachol said:
Frankly the only option I don't like is Queen of Souls and Shadow, because it seems very... un-dynamic? Omicron's fight writing is super neat, kind of a bummer to have Nemo just... hover, or whatever.
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It's basically the 2nd/3rd stage of the hypothetical Nemo boss fight and it's anime as fuck. She sets it up by doing the eye-rip thing and flooding the battlefield in shadows. And then she pops this and maaaan it's all dramatic and climactic and shit. The air shuddering and all the shadows in the arena rippling and roiling as Nemo just slowly ascends and the darkness rises behind her like a tidal wave. I actually really appreciate that all three of these key off of some fun horror stuff to an extent but this really just hits my good-feelings in a particular way. As fun as Terminator Carapace would be.
 
cheesyme said:
This one honestly sounds really damn interesting, but comments about it reducing the dynamism of fights have been brought up, and I'm of the mentality that if a person can't run they die. it makes us a wonderful tank but it also means we can't dodge major attacks anymore, and our tanking ability costs us energy, plus it means opponents can set up their offense since we can't really control the fight anymore. We also won't be able to do much if our opponent runs from us. Least favorite option.
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It does imply that Nemo can basically move by semi-teleporting from shadow to shadow though. So an opponent can try to run from us, but they cannot actually escape unless they run to a place where there are NO shadows. If there is even one, we can just suddenly be behind them. And we do have the ability to summon shadows with Brujeria. And since our regeneration increases by a full rank with this option, we can presumably summon multiple suns due to rapidly regenerating our eyes.

So I don't know if its true that Nemo loses the ability to dynamically move? Its more that the way she moves changes, where she now can "flicker" from shadow to shadow in the battlefield. Which is rather creepy, but also potentially rather interesting.
 
Omicron said:
[ ] Accept your shadow. What you became, what you were, is a true part of yourself. Though you have regained your memories, the cold and hollow self they forged remains in your sword, waiting for you to call upon it. You are its better half, and it will do anything to save your life. But it understands you now. It will no discard the things that have made you who you are; it will recognize your allies, its emotions muted rather than gone.
  • You gain the Grave of Shadows trait.
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I have to go with accepting Nemo's shadow. After everything we've learned from the flashback as well as what Yumichika told us about Unohana, I can't imagine choosing to reclaim it. That's just cruel.
Omicron said:
-[ ] Chains of Love and Hate. Once, you loved. Once, you hated. Then, you loved again. You have always been bound to another. When you issue Polilla's challenge, you may choose one target and form that bond with them. Your minds are revealed to one another, and you are always aware of each other's position.
  • With an ally, this allows for powerful teamwork. Your thoughts blend, enabling instant, speechless cooperation, and you never risk accidental friendly fire (No, this does not make them immune to your Cero). Additionally, you may grant an ally standing in shadow the benefits of your healing, though you may not benefit from it at the same time.
  • With an opponent, this bond becomes far more hostile: while you can read their next movements and locate them, their mind can glimpse only the most disturbing or confusing of your shadow-self's thought, while their awareness is flooded with warning of exactly where your consciousness lies: inside every shadow around them. Additionally, any time they expend considerable power while you are both in shadows, part of that energy flows back to you.
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This definitely seems like a way to become relevant for Cirucci's fights and doing so by her side. Plus it's all about forging social links, for good or for ill, and considering everything Nemo has done and wants to do (help Cirucci forge an Arrancar civilization) I can't help myself.
 
Diomedon said:
Reclaiming our shadow seems almost like rejecting it through consuming it. That time happened to Nemo, even if she just now remembered it. So I want to accept it, because it's been fighting for her all this time. Saying "I don't need you" to it just seems so...heartless to me.
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It's not really, though, because the shadow isn't a separate person. It's not saying "I don't need you" so much as it's saying "I don't need to hold on to these scars."
 
Honestly chains of love and hate seems to have the least negative conseuquences, but vessel of dust and bone is just so much fucking cooler! I REALLY want to see a fight scene with that
 
I'm gonna be totally honest, I have a vicious dislike for Queen of Soul and shadows. It's extremely static compared to the other options, and a major part of what I've loved about the fight scenes in this quest is the dynamicity of them, the running fights that cover so much ground. It's still technically mobile sure, but it loses the physical dynamicity I've loved so far in favour of a form of attack i don't find very interesting.

I'm inclined to vote reclaim, but of the Accept subvotes I favour Vessel of Dust and Bone. That shit's cool, and meaningfully changes the fight without sacrificing things I love about how Nemo already fights.
 
I think it's important to keep in mind that when we use Chains of Love and Hate on an opponent that it seems pretty clear we're forming a bond of hate with them. If we ever have to fight someone strong enough that we need Res for but we don't want to hate them that's an important detail.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Just a nitpick, I don't favor it.
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thank you, I didn't notice that bit
Datakim said:
but they cannot actually escape unless they run to a place where there are NO shadows
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true, though they can easily open the distance simply by airstepping up. no shadows in the middle of the air after all.
Datakim said:
So I don't know if its true that Nemo loses the ability to dynamically move? Its more that the way she moves changes, where she now can "flicker" from shadow to shadow in the battlefield. Which is rather creepy, but also potentially rather interesting.
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true enough, though i'm kinda curious if this "quickened descorrer" is fast enough to serve as a combat dodge, or just tactical/strategic movement
 
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