Pandemonious Ivy
Panties, Revolution. Big Drawers. Parachute.
You're becoming complicit, don't act like this is taking a stand against injustice because that looks completely different and we both know it.
Now You Feel Like Number None [Bleach Arrancar Quest]
- Thread starter Omicron
- Start date
- Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
You're becoming complicit, don't act like this is taking a stand against injustice because that looks completely different and we both know it.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
No, I don't know it. What is "complicit"? Is it a reputation thing? Is it morally better if you let it happen as it happens, as long as you're not within a certain distance of the guy?
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This whole argument has been nothing but back and forth on morality when it finally comes down to it the whole situation is nothing but shit anyway. Either we get something out of it or we just leave in a huff and spoil the crazy scientist mood a little bit and maybe lose a possible ally in the future. So take something from the whole situation and plaster a smile on your face cause life is hard and shitty stuff comes up all the time.
Pandemonious Ivy
Panties, Revolution. Big Drawers. Parachute.
Participating in upholding injustice when you can take a stand against it is being complicit.
If I'm benefiting from your pain or I'm helping others cause you pain, it doesn't matter how bad I feel about it.
If that is something that doesn't work for you, that's fine, but that's how I see it. Assisting in this venture is poisonous, no matter how the rationalizations go after the fact.
Question if the local mad scientist has the local god/supreme authority support in this venture has is it injustice? Because of our actions we did kill yammy in every conceivable way to the point the only thing left of him was his shattered body. The only way their could be any justice in this whole situation is we give him a painless death. I mean we refuse and he's still going to go into the torture armor and the other options are nothing more than benefits for helping improve it but cutting down the pain slightly.
Pandemonious Ivy
Panties, Revolution. Big Drawers. Parachute.
If someone is beating you to death but the local government said it's okay, is it injust?
- Location
- Head in the clouds
Honestly part of the reason I'm refusing is that while not working with the doc might lose him as a potential ally working with him might lose out on other potential allies or possibly current allies.
A fact of life is that you are judged by who you associate with. The mad doctor here has a reputation for a reason after all. Do we want to be associated with it?
A fact of life is that you are judged by who you associate with. The mad doctor here has a reputation for a reason after all. Do we want to be associated with it?
- Location
- madison
taking the healing or getting cirrcu out of her examinations would be being complicit. Using the chance to try and reduce the harm in the only way we can really isn't. taking a stand makes nemo feel better, trying to help makes the victim feel better.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
If you are a spy, and you are infiltrating the Nazis, you are doing a good thing, yes? Spying on the Nazis. However, the Nazis exist to cause people pain. Let us say that this spy is a desk Nazi, and never goes around shooting anybody. However, they handle a lot of paperwork. They are marginally useful to the Nazi cause; they do a job the Nazis need done. The Nazis are assisted by this spy, even if their spying is likely far more detrimental to them than the marginal utility they provide as an office worker.
Is this spy office-Nazi complicit? What about if the Nazis pay him a salary, because that is how they incentivise their workers? He is then actively benefiting from the pain of others. Are his actions as one who is doing good by pretending to be someone who does bad not taken into account? Is taking a stand only taking a stand when others can see you doing it?
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
*groans softly, rubbing his temples*
I should have expected this.
Deciding to take part in a corrupt action where you will have a direct hand in perpetuating its wrongness, because someone else would do the same anyway if you don't and while you have the job you can try to make things a little better, is a valid ethical position.
Refusing to take part in a corrupt action, because you would have to be committing wrongs all the while and tainting your own actions even if some good comes out of them, is a valid ethical position.
You can argue with each other about which is the better course of action here.
But if you want to argue which of Consequentialism or Deontology or Virtue Ethics or Whatever Else is Objectively Morally Superior And Correct, I invite you to make a thread in the Humanities forum, where you can devour each other in an endless circle of pointless hunger thinking you'll solve debates that have existed for basically all of history.
I should have expected this.
Deciding to take part in a corrupt action where you will have a direct hand in perpetuating its wrongness, because someone else would do the same anyway if you don't and while you have the job you can try to make things a little better, is a valid ethical position.
Refusing to take part in a corrupt action, because you would have to be committing wrongs all the while and tainting your own actions even if some good comes out of them, is a valid ethical position.
You can argue with each other about which is the better course of action here.
But if you want to argue which of Consequentialism or Deontology or Virtue Ethics or Whatever Else is Objectively Morally Superior And Correct, I invite you to make a thread in the Humanities forum, where you can devour each other in an endless circle of pointless hunger thinking you'll solve debates that have existed for basically all of history.
I just want healz....
- Location
- PA
It's not a great situation. Personally, I voted Refuse because as nice as trying to help sounds...Pain is quite literally part and parcel of the suit. We might be able to tweak it, maybe make something that Yammy would be keen on wearing, but it's minimal effort.
And as a thought: We're compromising our Morals to work with a guy who is anything but, who will inadvertantly, not even antagonistically but straight-up from a place of being unable to understand what it is he's doing, ask us to compromise again and again.
On top of this? It's at the price of Lacallas and the rest of the Coro Nocturno being taught by Luppi, and trusting him not to go too far. It's at the price of perhaps opening up a spare moment to work with Sung-Sun and get that obligation off our backs, someone who, while admittedly a jerk, is still someone who went to bat for Nemo when the time came.
Can the Octava engineer an unfortunate demise? Perhaps he can. Perhaps he cannot. He seems too busy with his work to do anything himself...And I don't think there's anyone else in Las Noches who carries a grudge aimed our way to do his dirty work for him. Aizen? If Aizen was going to decend from on high to kill us, he's just gonna do it, plain and simple.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
[X] Refuse. Nothing is worth the moral hazard of working on this project, or the dangers of Szayel's laboratory. You will offend the Espada, who might not even understand why you're letting go of such an opportunity, but Style will let you do so smoothly enough that he won't hold a grudge.
Voteswitching, not because of any phony deontologist's statement, but because I am enlightened by my intelligence.
Voteswitching, not because of any phony deontologist's statement, but because I am enlightened by my intelligence.
- Location
- The Land of Many Bregrets
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Work with Szayel. In exchange you will ask for…
-[X] Nothing. By feigning pure scientific interest in his work and an eagerness to help him, you will please him greatly and make him less likely to scrutinize your work, putting you in a better position to make the Sacrophagus less inhumane, and perhaps giving you the opportunity to pilfer Szayel's notes on other subjects for your own use.
-[X] Nothing. By feigning pure scientific interest in his work and an eagerness to help him, you will please him greatly and make him less likely to scrutinize your work, putting you in a better position to make the Sacrophagus less inhumane, and perhaps giving you the opportunity to pilfer Szayel's notes on other subjects for your own use.
- Location
- England
[X] Refuse. Nothing is worth the moral hazard of working on this project, or the dangers of Szayel's laboratory. You will offend the Espada, who might not even understand why you're letting go of such an opportunity, but Style will let you do so smoothly enough that he won't hold a grudge.
- Location
- France
[X] Work with Szayel. In exchange you will ask for…
-[X] Healing your crippling injuries. With the Quinta as your mistress, there is no risk of him offending her by turning you into a freaky mutant, but letting Szayel play around with your insides might still have consequences, even - especially - if he believes he's helping you doing so. Then again, these consequences could be positive…
-[X] Healing your crippling injuries. With the Quinta as your mistress, there is no risk of him offending her by turning you into a freaky mutant, but letting Szayel play around with your insides might still have consequences, even - especially - if he believes he's helping you doing so. Then again, these consequences could be positive…
NegativeJ
LOVE
- Location
- Est
[X] Work with Szayel. In exchange you will ask for…
-[X] Healing your crippling injuries. With the Quinta as your mistress, there is no risk of him offending her by turning you into a freaky mutant, but letting Szayel play around with your insides might still have consequences, even - especially - if he believes he's helping you doing so. Then again, these consequences could be positive…
-[X] Healing your crippling injuries. With the Quinta as your mistress, there is no risk of him offending her by turning you into a freaky mutant, but letting Szayel play around with your insides might still have consequences, even - especially - if he believes he's helping you doing so. Then again, these consequences could be positive…
- Pronouns
- They/Them
By this measure, aren't Nemo and Cirucci already complicit? Nobody forced them to trick Yammy into expending his power and then mutilate him to the point where he could only be useful as a science project. They've been benefiting from what they did to him for as long as they've been in a relationship.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Personally I just don't care about Yammy. He was a fun character and Omi made us feel somewhat bad for killing him, but what's done is done and the cost of "helping" him is working with Hot Pink Mengele. We literally put him in that situation in the first place, and it amuses me that people who are talking so much about being morally complicit are ignoring how complicit they are in his situation. Now they have an opportunity to stop that and they don't want to, and that's fine, but don't pretend it's coming from a place of absolute righteousness.
Pandemonious Ivy
Panties, Revolution. Big Drawers. Parachute.
Yo, I feel you, but I'm done so there's no further exasperation of the QM from me. I like his writing more than I like philosophical debate. Alas.
That being said...
What's being stopped exactly? Maybe it's my old man eyes, but I don't see a "Stop Him" option. Nor do I see, unfortunately, a "Gran Ray Cero" option, which achieves the same thing.
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- Location
- Texas
I'll admit, I'm sort of intrigued to see how Nemo explains things to Cirucci if "Nothing" wins.
"I expected you back hours ago, dear. What kept you so busy?"
You were helping Szayel torture Yammy. He's built this suit of armor which will keep Yammy in a state of constant agony, you see...
"Uh..."
Szayel offered to do you a favor, but you told him no, that wasn't needed, you'd do it just for the joy of torture science. Getting paid would sully the torture.
"I expected you back hours ago, dear. What kept you so busy?"
You were helping Szayel torture Yammy. He's built this suit of armor which will keep Yammy in a state of constant agony, you see...
"Uh..."
Szayel offered to do you a favor, but you told him no, that wasn't needed, you'd do it just for the joy of torture science. Getting paid would sully the torture.
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Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
[+] Work with Szayel. In exchange you will ask for…
-[+] A Deontology-Consequentialism debate.
-[+] A Deontology-Consequentialism debate.
[X] Work with Szayel. In exchange you will ask for…
-[X] Nothing. By feigning pure scientific interest in his work and an eagerness to help him, you will please him greatly and make him less likely to scrutinize your work, putting you in a better position to make the Sacrophagus less inhumane, and perhaps giving you the opportunity to pilfer Szayel's notes on other subjects for your own use.
Going with this because while I am weary of helping Szayel, I do feel we want his support in the war to come and this seems like a good step towards securing it.
-[X] Nothing. By feigning pure scientific interest in his work and an eagerness to help him, you will please him greatly and make him less likely to scrutinize your work, putting you in a better position to make the Sacrophagus less inhumane, and perhaps giving you the opportunity to pilfer Szayel's notes on other subjects for your own use.
Going with this because while I am weary of helping Szayel, I do feel we want his support in the war to come and this seems like a good step towards securing it.
- Location
- america
i didnt feel bad for killing him at all, he was a asshole, good ridence, at least he is useful now.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
You can potentially alleviate some of the suffering you caused to Yammy. God knows why you would, though, guy was a dick and Szayael's gonna make him cool.
dredloki gets it