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Nobility on the Golden Plains [A Clan Builder / Cultivation Quest]

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I am curious as to what getting a retainer would do.
We would eventually be able to boost their skill level with Impart the Fundamentals, and having someone giving oversight to the Silver Grass Pavilion when Liang is elsewhere / cultivating would be useful.
 
Agreed on wanting overall improvements to the Pavilion, especially loyalty/competence.
HousePet said:
I am curious as to what getting a retainer would do.
We would eventually be able to boost their skill level with Impart the Fundamentals, and having someone giving oversight to the Silver Grass Pavilion when Liang is elsewhere / cultivating would be useful.
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Impart the Fundamentals only works if they're two ranks below us. At Peasant rank, they won't be doing much oversight.

Anyway, we already have a named retainer for oversight over the Silver Grass Pavilion. Like, that's the one retainer we do have.
 
Sirrocco said:
Impart the Fundamentals only works if they're two ranks below us. At Peasant rank, they won't be doing much oversight.

Anyway, we already have a named retainer for oversight over the Silver Grass Pavilion. Like, that's the one retainer we do have.
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This is why I keep saying eventually, as we'll either make it to Core Lord, or upgrade the trait.

And An Lia seems more on the theoretical side of things. Having a more practical alchemist retainer wouldn't be bad.
 
It would be good to figure out how retainers are actually supposed to work, and give them some sort of practical in-game effect.

It would *also* be good if that didn't add much in the way of complexity to your side of things. It especially shouldn't be adding notable amounts of complexity per retainer. We don't want it to bloat like the last game bloated.

Personally, I like the idea that retainers could cover for time upkeep costs. Like, day-to-day management of the Pavilion might be the sort of thing that would normally keep requiring actions, but we have a retainer who's good at that stuff, so we don't have to pay that overhead. Building a set of major herb gardens would normally result in having to spend actions, but if we can get an herbalist retainer, that's covered. Then have some sort of bonus that they give us when we do take actions that they can support (like, say, managing admin tasks in the pavilion, or developing new spiritual herbs). It's obviously useful, and has just a bit of complexity to it, but not in ways that make things much more complicated for you.

I suppose that we might also get retainers who wouldn't be managing things, but I think that we could do well with a pattern of "here's a passive benefit that you get because they're doing their day-to-day stuff, and here's a specific grouping of actions where you get something like a +1 or +2 because they're helping you out." Then maybe limit total number of retainers to a level determined by our Diplomacy or something, so we don't get greedy and just keep piling them on to absurd levels.
 
My inclination would be a set of long-term assignments with bonuses like "+2 to Loyalty to Pavilion" (or a similar boost to Reputation) or "+2 to [Insert Skill] tasks", the latter having options for different skills based on the retainer assigned. And then a 'Reassign Retainers' option for free once a year or something.

Nothing too complicated, just boosting relevant stuff.
 
I'm not feeling 100% on re-assignable bonuses, as it becomes a bit of a min-maxing micromanagement puzzle.
Though assigning to slowly generate things might be fine. Be that a pavilion stat, new recipes or making elixirs.

Sirrocco said:
so we don't get greedy and just keep piling them on to absurd levels.
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But we need some sort of hubris here. Can't be cultivator with hubris.
 
HousePet said:
I'm not feeling 100% on re-assignable bonuses, as it becomes a bit of a min-maxing micromanagement puzzle.
Though assigning to slowly generate things might be fine. Be that a pavilion stat, new recipes or making elixirs.
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Generating things would definitely also work. Reassigning does have min/max issues potentially...maybe if it's always an action to reassign them? That makes any reassignment expensive enough not to be done casually.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Generating things would definitely also work. Reassigning does have min/max issues potentially...maybe if it's always an action to reassign them? That makes any reassignment expensive enough not to be done casually.
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The issue there is that we don't want them to just sit fallow? Like, turn after turn of minions that aren't doing things because "this turn we really need to X" is kind of feelsbad, you know? Also, that doesn't take away the min/max of it - it just makes it rarer.
 
Sirrocco said:
The issue there is that we don't want them to just sit fallow? Like, turn after turn of minions that aren't doing things because "this turn we really need to X" is kind of feelsbad, you know? Also, that doesn't take away the min/max of it - it just makes it rarer.
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Right, I'm suggesting we assign them to something, probably for free when we get them, and then they keep doing it (and providing the related bonus) until we spend an action to reassign them. So if one is giving a +2 on Admin actions or Loyalty or something, they keep providing that bonus no actions spent, but we need to spend an action to assign them to anything else. So they provide a constant bonus, but no swapping them around for whatever is best that specific turn.
 
Sirrocco said:
It would be good to figure out how retainers are actually supposed to work, and give them some sort of practical in-game effect.

It would *also* be good if that didn't add much in the way of complexity to your side of things. It especially shouldn't be adding notable amounts of complexity per retainer. We don't want it to bloat like the last game bloated.

Personally, I like the idea that retainers could cover for time upkeep costs. Like, day-to-day management of the Pavilion might be the sort of thing that would normally keep requiring actions, but we have a retainer who's good at that stuff, so we don't have to pay that overhead. Building a set of major herb gardens would normally result in having to spend actions, but if we can get an herbalist retainer, that's covered. Then have some sort of bonus that they give us when we do take actions that they can support (like, say, managing admin tasks in the pavilion, or developing new spiritual herbs). It's obviously useful, and has just a bit of complexity to it, but not in ways that make things much more complicated for you.

I suppose that we might also get retainers who wouldn't be managing things, but I think that we could do well with a pattern of "here's a passive benefit that you get because they're doing their day-to-day stuff, and here's a specific grouping of actions where you get something like a +1 or +2 because they're helping you out." Then maybe limit total number of retainers to a level determined by our Diplomacy or something, so we don't get greedy and just keep piling them on to absurd levels.
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What exactly do you mean by time upkeep costs though. It's not as if you need to spend actions on the silver grass pavilion management as it is.

I was considering allowing retainers to be reassigned like spirit beasts. But thinking about it I am more partial to the one and done model. That means your choice of which retainer is more meaningful because that's the bonus you're stuck with. And also I don't have to worry about recalculating everything even rarely.
 
Arcanestomper said:
What exactly do you mean by time upkeep costs though. It's not as if you need to spend actions on the silver grass pavilion management as it is.

I was considering allowing retainers to be reassigned like spirit beasts. But thinking about it I am more partial to the one and done model. That means your choice of which retainer is more meaningful because that's the bonus you're stuck with. And also I don't have to worry about recalculating everything even rarely.
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My thought was... maybe managing the Pavilion should be the sort of thing that takes actions from time to time by default - except that, hey, we have a retainer that does that for us. Then, if we want to establish other holdings of similar levels of importance, we're either going to have to manage them ourselves (at a surcharge of one action every year or something) or get an appropriate retainer to run the place. Alternately, have the "you need a trusted retainer to run this" be a hard requirement. After all, the choice that got us the Pavilion also got us her.

Admittedly, that might mean that we should get more from our holdings. Like... does the pavilion even give us an income at this point? It doesn't seem to give us any face. It's true that we can take an action to get them to help on something, and then they will take a series of lesser actions to help on that thing over time, but that's not incredibly exciting as such things go. So... if and when we do get it to be kind of awesome, what's the payoff?
 
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Minor Characters New
  • Informational

    • Minor Characters​

    As the young master of a distinguished clan the main character has a lot of people working for him. Most of these people are background extras without any real individual impact. Some of them are important NPCs with their own actions and plans. But between these two levels lie the MCs retinue. Confidants, retainers, and personal servants who both follow the MCs orders and have enough skill to provide meaningful benefits. There are four aspects that make up a minor character. Their loyalty, skill, cultivation, and type.

    A character's loyalty is established when they are first recruited. It is very hard to change either for the better or worse. A low loyalty character won't directly betray the MC, but they probably will siphon funds off for themselves and may be open to bribery. They will likely abandon the MC if things get dangerous. By contrast a high loyalty character will be honest in their work and will be willing to fight and die for the MC.

    The skill of a minor character is simply their specialty. For instance alchemy, administration, or fire combat techniques. It defines what they can do and what bonuses they can provide. A minor character's skill cannot change outside of special circumstances. Rare characters may have more than one skill.

    A minor character's cultivation determines how effective the bonuses they provide are. It is divided by realm and general level in a realm. Peasant provide no real material benefit. A character at this level is mostly a placeholder to be trained. Low level soldiers open up options, but come with penalties. While high level soldiers can provide bonuses. Characters in the knight realm provide bonuses at all level. Lord characters are beyond the current scope of the MC. A character's cultivation can be improved, but it takes a long time without the MC providing active support.

    Finally there is the type of character. This is the type of benefit they provide. There are three kinds. Specialists, managers, and retainers. Specialists simply provide a bonus to an action, although they don't stack. This may also open up locked categories for actions that the MC is not skilled in himself. Managers handle organizations such as merchant halls, medicine pavilions, or guard regiments. They allow the MC to control these organizations and provide benefits or penalties to the organizations running. Finally retainers can function as specialists or managers, and also can be assigned long term tasks to work on instead of the MC.

    Specialists are relatively easy to hire and usually don't cost enough to be worth tracking for the MC. Though more powerful ones are both rarer and pricier. Managers are harder to find since they need the skills to run a large organization. Their pay is also higher, but is usually factored into whatever organization they are running. Retainers are either acquired from narrative events or promoted from specialists and managers with high loyalty and cultivation.

    Example

    Miss An Lia (Loyalty 8/10, Alchemist, Mid Soldier, Manager)
     
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  • Informational
    • So are the bonuses from Specialists auto applied on actions they apply to or do we need to specify? I'm guessing we will need to specify which retainers and managers we assign to actions.
     
    Was thinking about this last night.
    As a general concept, Miss An Lia could be assigned to slowly boost one aspect of the Silver Grass Pavilion's stats, or when Liang is in closed cultivation, stop any stat decay.
    While a hypothetical alchemy prodigy from the Maple Cadre could be assigned to slowly produce elixirs or work on new recipes.

    If we are intending on going all in on upgrading the Silver Grass Pavilion, then it wouldn't be a bad thing to have multiple alchemist retainers.
     
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