Networking (Worm)

[Olivebirdy]

Anyone in the know or who asks around could find out he broke the truce, with varying degrees of accuracy as to how.

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Uh, actually, Taylor had to really work in order to convince Flechette that Armsmaster had done something wrong, that he was under house rather than recuperation. The PRT managed to keep the fact that Armsmaster broke the Truce on the very down-low.

"Is nobody paying attention to the fact that he was seriously bent in the head? To the point that the Slaughterhouse Nine thought he was a good candidate for their group?"
"Mannequin targeted Armsmaster to mess with him. It's his M.O.. He goes out of his way to attack and ruin tinkers and other individuals who could do something for society."
"I love how the so-called 'good' guys get to revise events to make stuff more convenient for them."
"It's a perk. People tend to trust your version of events when you're doing what's right," Flechette said.

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"Do you know why Armsmaster was arrested?"
"He wasn't."
"Unofficially arrested, then. Do you know why he was cooped up in the local PRT headquarters, with no official title or role?"
"He was in therapy for his injury. He lost an arm."
"I know. I was there when Leviathan tore it out of the socket. I applied pressure to the wound to try to stop the blood loss. But that's not why they locked him up. They could have given him an administrative position if it was just an injury, and they didn't."
"Maybe they did. It's not like either of us were there when the decisions were made."
"With no job title? They didn't list one for him, and with the state of the city, they could have leveraged his reputation alone to boost morale, just by saying Armsmaster was in charge of the local task-forces."
"There's emotional stress with permanent injuries, too."
"Plenty of people under just as much stress, if not more, after the Endbringer hit. But I'll admit your perspective's better than mine," I said, looking up at her. "You joined the Wards just in time to see the aftermath of Gallant and Aegis dying. How did they handle that? If the PRT was that accommodating with Armsmaster, I'm sure they arranged for therapy and time off for all the Wards."
"Yes to therapy," she said. "No to the time off. Too much to take care of."
"Oh?" I asked. I hadn't honestly expected them to enforce and allow for therapy. It threw me off my stride.
"Why are you so surprised? And where is this coming from? Tattletale feed you this information?"
"Only some of the general details, like what Armsmaster was up to. The bit about the PRT dropping the ball in taking care of you guys was mainly drawn from past experience."
"But they didn't."
"Flechette," Parian spoke up, "Weren't you saying it was Weld who pushed for the therapy?"
Flechette shot her a look, as if she were thinking, Whose side are you on?

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[Thrice.Great]

Uh, actually, Taylor had to really work in order to convince Flechette that Armsmaster had done something wrong, that he was under house rather than recuperation. The PRT managed to keep the fact that Armsmaster broke the Truce on the very down-low.

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Sure, the Protectorate managed to suppress information getting to a Ward, who wasn't even there.

However, the actual scene at the Endbringer recovery tents went a little differently, with actual people standing nearby with no Protectorate or PRT affiliation recording the events, or even just seeing them so that they could spread gossip later.

Grue turned his head, and I leaned forward a little to see what he was looking at. There were capes at the far end of the hallway, staring at the scene, kept out of the main triage area by a set of PRT officers. Trickster leaned against a wall with a cell phone raised, recording video.

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This working? This on? Good. The tinny female voice rang out from the armbands of the two heroes.
Armsmaster snapped his head around. I followed his line of sight to where Grue, Regent and Bitch were standing in between Tattletale and Miss Militia.
For those of you who don't have a front row seat, the very well armed Miss Militia is currently doing her best to point a Beretta 92fs at my head. If this broadcast ends prematurely, you can all rest assured that the Protectorate is willing to kill and break the truce if it means censoring its dark, dirty little secrets.

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Then, Legend shoots Armsmaster in the shoulder with a laser, still in front of witnesses and he gets hauled off and Skitter runs away.

While people who were there don't know the full story, they know some seriously shady shit went down with some Protectorate infighting and suggestions of truce breaking cover-up of some kind. And villains and rogues will gossip.

So, Flechette, a party-line toting recruit not knowing about all this business is not terribly surprising. But people who have a reason to be nervous around Protectorate forces? Oh yeah, they definitely know something fucked up happened at the Leviathan fight.

 

[tarrangar]

Why does it not surprise me that the biggest group Rouge Tinkers hate the Parahuman Conscription Response Team with due cause.

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They sell to Villains, thereby making said Villains harder to fight, so Toybox aren't rouges they are just for profit villains, who like to believe, because they sold the weapons that allowed a villain to kill 500 people, instead of killing them themselves they are not as bad.

If they had a heroes only policy for weapons and things that are easily weaponized, and refused to sell to people with a known criminal record, then they could get to be called rouges, but as it is they are just an illegal arms dealer operation, with delusions of not being evil.

Toybox are one of Earth Bets shady operations, who will sell to nearly anyone if they pay well enough.

 

[Thrice.Great]

They sell to Villains, thereby making said Villains harder to fight, so Toybox aren't rouges they are just for profit villains, who like to believe, because they sold the weapons that allowed a villain to kill 500 people, instead of killing them themselves they are not as bad.

If they had a heroes only policy for weapons and things that are easily weaponized, and refused to sell to people with a known criminal record, then they could get to be called rouges, but as it is they are just an illegal arms dealer operation, with delusions of not being evil.

Toybox are one of Earth Bets shady operations, who will sell to nearly anyone if they pay well enough.

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Citation needed

Here's the only thing I could find in Worm that describes their MO

"Toybox is a black market organization," Miss Militia said. "Tinkers who operate solo find life rather difficult, due to a lack of resources and the fact that gangs and government organizations are very, very persistent when it comes to recruiting them. Faced with the prospect of spending their lives on the run, trying to avoid being forcibly recruited into one organization or another, most turn to the Protectorate or the Wards. For those few who don't, Toybox is… was a refuge of sorts. Tinkers would join, share technology, stay in the enclave as long as they needed to build up a reputation and whatever tools they needed, they would share thirty-three percent of any proceeds with the rest of the group, helping to keep others afloat. Toybox sustained itself with barter, by moving frequently, operating between the scope of heroes and villains, and by selling less-than-legal goods to criminal groups"

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So I see less-than-legal goods as a pretty faint condemnation. They clearly sell to villains, yes, but I'm not seeing anything about selling weapons used in mass-murder. Not saying you can't be right, just saying that I see nothing to support that proposition in the text. Miss Militia's description of them actually seems somewhat positive for the most part, painting them in pretty light shades of gray.

 

[tarrangar]

Citation needed

Here's the only thing I could find in Worm that describes their MO


So I see less-than-legal goods as a pretty faint condemnation. They clearly sell to villains, yes, but I'm not seeing anything about selling weapons used in mass-murder. Not saying you can't be right, just saying that I see nothing to support that proposition in the text. Miss Militia's description of them actually seems somewhat positive for the most part, painting them in pretty light shades of gray.

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They sell high technology to villains, it's probably rarely weapons, but nearly all Tinker tech can be weaponized, and every escape tech they sell to a villain, is a villain who got away to steal and murder another day.

My example was an extreme that probably rarely if ever happens all at once, but what Toybox has sold over the years to villains, are likely to have ruined or ended thousands of lives.

 

[Thrice.Great]

They sell high technology to villains, it's probably rarely weapons, but nearly all Tinker tech can be weaponized, and every escape tech they sell to a villain, is a villain who got away to steal and murder another day.

My example was an extreme that probably rarely if ever happens all at once, but what Toybox has sold over the years to villains, are likely to have ruined or ended thousands of lives.

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Okay, so that's still conjecture, which is fine if you want it to be part of your head-canon, but it's not supported in the text and I'm not going to be making use of ToyBox in that way.

Are they still a grey organization? Yes. Are they engaged in deals with villain groups? Yes. However my depiction will have a little more nuanced ethic (I hope) than 'dealing with villains makes you a villain.'

As to the ethical question of whether providing weapons to someone is as bad as shooting them yourself... let's please not get into that, as it is a huge and much debated philosophical question. If you really want to talk about it further, go over to the Worm Morality Thread and tag me. Or just PM me.

 

[tarrangar]

Okay, so that's still conjecture, which is fine if you want it to be part of your head-canon, but it's not supported in the text and I'm not going to be making use of ToyBox in that way.

Are they still a grey organization? Yes. Are they engaged in deals with villain groups? Yes. However my depiction will have a little more nuanced ethic (I hope) than 'dealing with villains makes you a villain.'

As to the ethical question of whether providing weapons to someone is as bad as shooting them yourself... let's please not get into that, as it is a huge and much debated philosophical question. If you really want to talk about it further, go over to the Worm Morality Thread and tag me. Or just PM me.

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It's not providing weapons in general, it's providing weapons to someone you already know are a criminal, and likely to use them outside of self-defense.

While I'm not exactly a fan of weapon stores, I don't believe they are responsible for what people with a gun permit do with the gun they bought, it's when you go black market, and sell to anyone with the money to pay you, that you become responsible.

If Toybox only sold to heroes, and civilians with no criminal history greater than speeding tickets, then I could call them rouges, but they sell dangerous technology to villains.

 

[inverted_helix]

It's not providing weapons in general, it's providing weapons to someone you already know are a criminal, and likely to use them outside of self-defense.

While I'm not exactly a fan of weapon stores, I don't believe they are responsible for what people with a gun permit do with the gun they bought, it's when you go black market, and sell to anyone with the money to pay you, that you become responsible.

If Toybox only sold to heroes, and civilians with no criminal history greater than speeding tickets, then I could call them rouges, but they sell dangerous technology to villains.

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Legally in the US weapons manufacturers are protected from the crimes committed with weapons they produce so long as they didn't directly sell to the criminal. All Toybox really needs to do is sell everything through a third party. If that third party sells to criminals isn't a legal responsibility of Toybox.

(So long as once the third party is convicted of selling weapons to criminals illegally and then is a criminal Toybox moves on to selling to a different third party, even if that different third party happens to do the same thing they can keep doing this forever.)

The laws protecting weapons manufacturers are very strong in the US.

 

[Anti-No]

The problems with selling to heroes is that most of those heroes are government sponsored and/or government controlled, and the government actually is out to get the thinkers. No if's, buts or maybes.

So, Toybox can either sell to safer customers: Rogues, non-government organizations and villains.... Or.... let themselves be enslaved. In Earth Bet, the government actually is part of the problem.

 

[tarrangar]

The problems with selling to heroes is that most of those heroes are government sponsored and/or government controlled, and the government actually is out to get the thinkers. No if's, buts or maybes.

So, Toybox can either sell to safer customers: Rogues, non-government organizations and villains.... Or.... let themselves be enslaved. In Earth Bet, the government actually is part of the problem.

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The Protectorate don't enslave anyone that's fanon, what they do is give criminals a choice between work for us or serve your prison sentence.

what they might also do, is repeatedly tell a Tinker selling to them about how much quicker they could get new materials, how many other Tinkers work they could get access to, and how much safer they would be, if they would just sign on with the Protectorate but that's annoying not an attempt at enslavement.

Of course if a Tinker accidentally get on the criminal side it's suddenly going to become the hard sell, but as long as you don't give in to that impulse, that tells you that you could make something fantastic out of that Ferrari that don't belong to you, the Protectorate will limit their recruiting attempts, to bugging you about how you really would benefit from joining them, every time you contact them, which while annoying is legal and not really an attempt to enslave you.

They will also press you into line if you begin harming people with side effects of your tech being made in a public location.

But as long as you don't incidentally hurt people by not following proper safety procedures, and don't steal or otherwise break the law, the Protectorate is going to keep to the carrot in their recruitment attempts.

 

[Anti-No]

The Protectorate don't enslave anyone that's fanon

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In this particular alt-universe? The same alt-universe Toybox you are trying (and failing) to convince the author that it should be a villain organization?

Just so I am certain we are on the same page here: If someone pulls you off the street because they want you to work for them, makes certain you cannot leave, puts you in a gilded cage to work for them and changes the laws to make this legal. What would you call it?

 

[tarrangar]

In this particular alt-universe? The same alt-universe Toybox you are trying (and failing) to convince the author that it should be a villain organization?

Just so I am certain we are on the same page here: If someone pulls you off the street because they want you to work for them, makes certain you cannot leave, puts you in a gilded cage to work for them and changes the laws to make this legal. What would you call it?

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They don't do that in canon.

And as far as I have seen they don't go to those extremes in this AU either.

 

[Anti-No]

They don't do that in canon.

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Step one: Make capes second-class citizens who cannot legally use their skillls, abilities or know-how to do business.
Step two: Check if capes work (legally) in the Protectorate or indirectly for the PRT. Yes? Good. No? Check how they get their income, because it's probably not legal.
Step three: Use whatever they do as a legal reason to incarcerate or do forced recruitment, depending on the needs of the government.

Please do explain how the steps above are not canon.

Mind you, this is for capes in general. What capes has it been made clear are pushed harder?

 

[tarrangar]

Step one: Make capes second-class citizens who cannot legally use their skillls, abilities or know-how to do business.
Step two: Check if capes work (legally) in the Protectorate or indirectly for the PRT. Yes? Good. No? Check how they get their income, because it's probably not legal.
Step three: Use whatever they do as a legal reason to incarcerate or do forced recruitment, depending on the needs of the government.

Please do explain how the steps above are not canon.

Mind you, this is for capes in general. What capes has it been made clear are pushed harder?

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That there is both canon and very much overstated, there are a lot of limitations, but they aren't to the point that it's impossible to use your power to make money legally, they are just to the point that there are a lot of legal hoops you have to jump though to do it.

And they are also to the point that certain avenues of earning money is closed, because it's calculated normals will have no chances if Parahumans are involved, which is why Thinkers may not trade stocks and such.

A Tinker have to get their inventions though a vetting progress before they are allowed to sell them, but once they have done that they can sell them as they like, and there are good reasons for the vetting progress, because more than once a Tinker has sold a new wonder project, that had harmful side effects from the start, or broke down in a harmful way very easily.

So yes the government gives problem for Tinkers wanting to work independently, no these problems aren't to the point that it is an attempt at enslavement.

 

[Anti-No]

Two questions I notice you have very deliberately not answered, @tarrangar

What would you call it?

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What capes has it been made clear are pushed harder?

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[tarrangar]

Two questions I notice you have very deliberately not answered, @tarrangar

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I would call it coercion or heavy handed recruitment at most, en-slavement is far too heavy a term to use for what they do.

What they do is certainly not enslavement, you can sell your inventions as a Tinker without being forced into the Protectorate, you just have to be careful not to break the law, and most of said laws make sense.

 

[Anti-No]

I would call it coercion or heavy handed recruitment at most, en-slavement is far too heavy a term to use for what they do.

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...and this, I suspect, is the main difference. I would call it enslavement. Can they leave? No. Can they work for someone else? No. And their shard forces them to work, so they can't choose not to do anything.

What they do is certainly not enslavement, you can sell your inventions as a Tinker without being forced into the Protectorate, you just have to be careful not to break the law, and most of said laws make sense.

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So, if someone is brought in with "heavy handed recruitment"/"we have an offer you can't refuse", they can still sell their own inventions? Or move to another country? Or change jobs? Sorry, I want an in-story reference before I believe that.

Do also remember who seem to be judge, jury and executioner when it comes to theese laws: Reasonable, enlightened and above all approachable people like Tagg and Piggot, who certainly wouldn't dream of having an agenda.

Consider also how known things like tinker fugue and surprise inspections would probably work out.

So yes the government gives problem for Tinkers wanting to work independently, no these problems aren't to the point that it is an attempt at enslavement.

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So... what free groups of Tinkers besides Toybox are there, exactly? Villain groups, true... anywhere else? If the government let Tinkers work independently & legally without direct or indirect recruitment - where are they all?

 

[tarrangar]

...and this, I suspect, is the main difference. I would call it enslavement. Can they leave? No. Can they work for someone else? No. And their shard forces them to work, so they can't choose not to do anything.

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Can they leave yes provided they haven't committed crimes or have already served the time they got for said crimes.

Can they work for someone else yes they just have to accept that half their work will be declared unsafe and the other half will go though a months long vetting progress before being cleared for sale.

And they can always choose not to sell their tech, even if that limits them to what materials they can scrounge up on a normal jobs wages.

So... what free groups of Tinkers besides Toybox are there, exactly? Villain groups, true... anywhere else? If the government let Tinkers work independently & legally without direct or indirect recruitment - where are they all?

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There aren't shown other Independent Tinker only groups aside from Toybox in canon, but then again that has more to do with canon having a narrow focus, than there not being any, and I'm sure there are more than a few Tinkers, who are part of or working for independent hero groups.

And I will ask you again, please provide me a citation any citation from canon, that the Protectorate pressgang capes who haven't committed major crimes.

We aren't shown much outside Brockton Bay in canon, so for the most part, we just have to assume both ways around, and personally I take the fact that New Wave is around, and has been around for over a decade, and have a good relationship with the Protectorate, to mean that the Protectorate don't practice, either you are with us or against us, nearly as much as some people thinks.

You people are taking the fact that they offer villains parole in return for working for the Protectorate, and didn't fight against the laws limiting Parahumans right to participate in certain businesses, as equal to the Protectorate being a malicious force, that will force you to work for them for life for littering if you have an useful power.

The Protectorates aggressive recruitment methods might be part of the reason for there being so few rouges, and few Tinker/Thinker rouges in particular, but the fact that the villains want Tinkers and Thinkers too, and unlike the Protectorate has no scruples in how they get them, is a far bigger factor.

 

[Anti-No]

And I will ask you again, please provide me a citation any citation from canon, that the Protectorate pressgang capes who haven't committed major crimes.

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Step one: Work for us, directly or indirectly, or anything you do is a crime.
Step two: You did a crime! Work for us or go to prison.

You may consider this a reasonable way of acting. I don't. This is desperation tactics that have thrown things like 'ethics', 'morality' and 'fair play' to the roadside. Worm is kind of all about how 'ethics', 'morality' and stuff like that gets thrown away for expediencys sake. Problem is, that has unfortunate sideefects.

You people are taking the fact that they offer villains parole in return for working for the Protectorate, and didn't fight against the laws limiting Parahumans right to participate in certain businesses, as equal to the Protectorate being a malicious force, that will force you to work for them for life for littering if you have an useful power.

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Yes.

If the government thougth they could get away with it? Definitely. The Canary thing did show what kind of 'equality before the law' capes could expect.

The Protectorates aggressive recruitment methods might be part of the reason for there being so few rouges, and few Tinker/Thinker rouges in particular, but the fact that the villains want Tinkers and Thinkers too, and unlike the Protectorate has no scruples in how they get them, is a far bigger factor.

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Ah. The villains do slavery. How surprising. Yes, naturally enough that means the government should do it too. It's okay. The villains do it.


Now, to the major question in this post:

And I will ask you again, please provide me a citation any citation from canon, that the Protectorate pressgang capes who haven't committed major crimes.

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Mind you, I don't have a citation from canon, but I do have a citation from Wildbow. Let's see:
Wildbow's quest: PRT: Department Sixty Four [Worm Quest]
The background of Elite: ⛉ PRT Quest (Anchorage)
The important part is the following:
***********************************************************************************************************************
HOSTILES; The Elite

The largest villain organization and arguably the second-largest parahuman organization in the United States, the Elite got their start in San Francisco as 'Uppermost', an organization of rogues organized by rogues, involved in production and entertainment, managed by parahumans. In 1998, Uppermost reached out to the PRT for assistance in dealing with a bill (NEPEA-5) that sought to curtail parahuman involvement in business and media, arguably targeted directly at Uppermost. After a great deal of consideration, the head office turned down the offer for assistance, the bill was passed, and Uppermost disbanded. Many members of Uppermost found their way to the Protectorate and Wards as a way of avoiding bankruptcy and to manage the fines and fees that followed the bill's passage.
************************************************************************************************************************

To be honest, I feel the whole cape situation as shown in Worm shows that if you get powers, you really, really should consider what alternatives to living in the USA there is. Of course, it's a complete crapsack world, so there may not actually be any decent alternatives. Meaning that 'voting with your feet' may not really work. And of course, for a story to work, focus on a small area (like Brockton Bay) helps. And if most of the characters leave, well... not so much of a story. But I must admit a small comment about 'hey, that friends neighbour that people think became a tinker rogue, what happened to him?' 'Last I heard, he moved to Scotland' or something would have been appropriate. Even if it was later shown to have failed somehow. Because crapsack world.

 

[tarrangar]

HOSTILES; The Elite

The largest villain organization and arguably the second-largest parahuman organization in the United States, the Elite got their start in San Francisco as 'Uppermost', an organization of rogues organized by rogues, involved in production and entertainment, managed by parahumans. In 1998, Uppermost reached out to the PRT for assistance in dealing with a bill (NEPEA-5) that sought to curtail parahuman involvement in business and media, arguably targeted directly at Uppermost. After a great deal of consideration, the head office turned down the offer for assistance, the bill was passed, and Uppermost disbanded. Many members of Uppermost found their way to the Protectorate and Wards as a way of avoiding bankruptcy and to manage the fines and fees that followed the bill's passage.

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As it says the Protectorate turned down assisting in that bill, they didn't pass it themselves, or support it, they merely remained neutral because they saw it would get them recruits.

Step one: Work for us, directly or indirectly, or anything you do is a crime.
Step two: You did a crime! Work for us or go to prison.

You may consider this a reasonable way of acting. I don't. This is desperation tactics that have thrown things like 'ethics', 'morality' and 'fair play' to the roadside. Worm is kind of all about how 'ethics', 'morality' and stuff like that gets thrown away for expediencys sake. Problem is, that has unfortunate sideefects.

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Parian is a rouge in canon, who the Protectorate don't pressgang, and she don't work for them at all, which shows that your work for us directly or indirectly or anything you do is a crime, just isn't true.

Ah. The villains do slavery. How surprising. Yes, naturally enough that means the government should do it too. It's okay. The villains do it.

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The government don't do slavery, they merely don't provide all that much protection from villains who do want to enslave you, if you don't join.

The main reason there are so few rouges in Worm is because the government wont set aside assets to protect rouges and the villains will gladly enslave any rouge they find.

The Protectorate use this to recruit, by pointing out that if you don't join them or another bigger group, a less moral group than them, are likely to come and force you to work for them.

 

[Anti-No]

As it says the Protectorate turned down assisting in that bill, they didn't pass it themselves, or support it, they merely remained neutral because they saw it would get them recruits.

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Thing is... The government did. The Protectorate is at least in theory a government organization.

 

[tarrangar]

Thing is... The government did. The Protectorate is at least in theory a government organization.

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Yeah but that's like saying that the police is responsible for congress passing new criminal laws.

The Protectorate don't pass laws or stop them as their standard work, they might have been able to prevent the law by expending a lot of political favors, but they deemed that the result of the law passing, wasn't severe enough to justify using all those favors.

It was a bunch of non parahuman business owners, who felt threatened by how much better the parahumans were doing, who spent a lot of money getting laws limiting parahumans rights to participate in business passed, the Protectorate merely refused to take sides on the matter, since whether it went though or not weren't important enough to them, to expend their hard earned goodwill on.

You can't say a government organisation is corrupt, because they follow unfair laws passed by a higher up organisation.

Now there are some corruption in the PRT, but it's not to the point that you can't be a rouge without breaking the law, and getting the choice between joining up or going to prison, it's just at the point where you need to read up on all the relevant laws before you start your business, because there are strict law for Parahuman business and ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

As a Tinker most of those laws that hit the elite probably don't come into play to start with, seeing as Uppermost before it was dissolved by the new laws, were more about cornering already existing market with cheaper or better Parahuman alternatives.

The laws against Tinkers are mostly separate, and focus on strict security checks on all products, to check whether the product has side effects as well as review boards to discuss whether this thing is legal in the US as a Tinker weapon might sort under weapons illegal to sell to private persons.

And there's no bullshit in that, after all some Tinker weapons can be really powerful, and while you're allowed to buy a handgun in the US, you are not allowed to buy a bazooka or a missile.

So if you're a Tinker like Bakuda you need to sell to the government if you want to legally sell, but that's not because of unreasonable restraints, it's because WMPs are still WMPs if they are made by a parahuman.

 

[Anti-No]

You can't say a government organisation is corrupt, because they follow unfair laws passed by a higher up organisation.

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The corruption, or lack thereof in the Protectorate is irrelevant. The government of the USA, in Earth Bet, has set up a situation where the end result is that if you become a Tinker and try to stay solo you either have to work for them, directly or indirectly - or become a villain.

Toybox seem to be balancing on a knife's edge to avoid either, somehow. In this fic, they seem rather aware that the government would love an excuse to gobble them up. Like the government did with Uppermost. This is not 'we buy the firm'. This is 'everyone in this firm is hereby debt slaves. Because we changed to laws to make that happen. Work for us or else.' With that in mind, an off-dimension base/base expansion/bolthole seems very reasonable.

Only cape 'shopkeeper' or for that matter 'somewhat legal business rogue' I know of in the Wormverse is Parian. Master 6. Very curious about the background of that.

The laws against Tinkers are mostly separate, and focus on strict security checks on all products,

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Reference?

 

[tarrangar]

Only cape 'shopkeeper' or for that matter 'somewhat legal business rogue' I know of in the Wormverse is Parian. Master 6. Very curious about the background of that.

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This has to do with the fact Brockton Bay is a city with cape crimes though the roof, so being a rouge don't last long before you get pressganged into a gang, unless you are really lucky or competent.

Reference?

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None that's my head canon, since you also seem to be using your head canon as fact, I thought it appropriate.

But lets just agree that you can't convince me it's that dystopian and I can't convince you it isn't.

 

[Higure]

[warning=Warning]Please keep things civil, guys. No one's broken any rules, and the down time has hopefully let everyone calm down, but...this is a quest, not a Worm morality discussion thread.[/warning]