Netflix, Riot Game & Fortiche's Arcane

By the time Jayce came around it was already becoming too late for Viktor. He's going to do science no matter what they say and he'll turn to crazy dudes to do it. And that's the point of Piltover - it is profoundly villainous but sheathes that in a golden, pristine steampunk aesthetic. Let's go over Piltover's characters:
  • Mel - extreme girlboss but also the literal nexus of corruption in the city
  • Heimerdinger - hopelessly disconnected from the human experience but at least potentially well-meaning, which is lost in how he behaves towards Viktor (you don't tell a living person that the fastest flames burn brightest as if his death is already foredained)
  • Other councilors - increasingly corrupt people made more corrupt by the hextech, think about how when Jayce was first put on trial the idea of him doing magic was a moral outrage and the robot councilor was like my people got destroyed by magic, and now suddenly they all love it when it makes them money and are willing to vote out heimerdinger for it
  • Jayce - the biggest mook of them all, an egoist who believes he has the sole right to dispense with and control the hextech, well-meaning to be sure but always fascinated in himself and what he can do and his responsibility more than helping other people
  • Viktor - actively turning away from Piltover and Jayce directly because of Jayce's choices and his inability to actually appreciate or help other people, which is underlined by his class perspective versus viktor who is a zaunite
  • Caitlyn - actively has to go against her superiors, who are all wildly corrupt, to do anything (including forging documents), sheltered and naive person who knows she is and hates it
  • Marcus - hyper corrupt self-hating man who knows what he is and literally let Vi go to prison for years, an absolute coward of a person
  • Grayson - pragmatic dealmaker who nevertheless was forced by the councilors in their literal ivory tower to secure a pound of flesh which led to the entire escalation towards the end of ep3
Who am I missing here because it seems to me like the only good Piltover characters are those who are either being actively fucked by Piltover or have to go against it in order to do anything...?
Isn't that the point that's being made? No one is claiming that the city of Piltover is morally correct, all the claims are about the characters in it. So, sure the system is corrupt and bad, but there are people willing to go against it.

Piltover has characters who're genuinely willing to go against it's corrupt system to improve it, even if the system itself resists it.
The Lanes just has it's characters either accomplish nothing or actively work on making things worse.

Edit: Incidentally, in your interpretation you're also kind of taking the worst possible interpretation of characters even if that requires you to take multiple contradictory positions.
For example, take the position of the corruption of the Enforcers.
- On one hand, corruption is bad
- On the other hand, the corruption of the enforcer is an act by it's leaders that allows The Lanes relatively peaceful independence
 
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Isn't that the point that's being made? No one is claiming that the city of Piltover is morally correct, all the claims are about the characters in it.

Piltover has characters who're genuinely willing to go against it's corrupt system to improve it, even if the system itself resists it.
The Lanes just has it's characters either accomplish nothing or actively work on making things worse.

We don't really know anything about the Firelights, though, and they're a significant gang inside Zaun fighting against Silco. Leaving aside Vi herself who is purely of the Lanes and literally introduces Caitlyn to the whole area.
 
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Piltover has characters who're genuinely willing to go against it's corrupt system to improve it, even if the system itself resists it.
The Lanes just has it's characters either accomplish nothing or actively work on making things worse.
Because only rich people have the means for politics.

Piltover characters have the privilege of going against the system and only suffer relatively minor setbacks for it, because even when going against the system, they still have an inbuilt privilege that protected them from the worst of the fallout, e.g Jaice only had to almost lose his life's work instead of being exiled and losing much more than that. And even then their attempts have pretty much amounted for nothing, Piltover's system of corruption remains untouched.

Zaun characters? they do not have that privilege, they are barely surviving, their lives are permanently shattered and they have no access to the levers of power Piltovers characters have.
So of course they accomplish nothing, because they barely have anything.
 
So what???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I'm not saying your interpretation is invalid or anything but in the current cultural context Silco's necessary violence I think will come off as bloodthirsty and obviously wrong and this is probably the context the writers coming from. I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong, but obviously I think I'm right, because here I am arguing this case.
 
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EDIT: "The base level of violence necessary for change" is said when referring to murdering Vander. It's not meant to be something you're sympathetic to.

This is a complete misread of that scene. The quote is from his speech to Vander when he was kidnapped about the lengths that he believes they need to go to, as he idly waves to the vast quantities of Shimmer being bottled and packaged for distribution. It's very clear that he's referring to a planned violent uprising.
 
This is a complete misread of that scene. The quote is from his speech to Vander when he was kidnapped about the lengths that he believes they need to go to, as he idly waves to the vast quantities of Shimmer being bottled and packaged for distribution. It's very clear that he's referring to a planned violent uprising.
We later find out that he is also planning to murder Vander and his kids at that time. This is pedantic and doesn't change my point in any way. Not meant to be sympathetic or even neutral, because the 'base level of violence' apparently must always involves murdering your loved ones by design.
 
Silco is a villain. Like utterly evil, and we are obviously not supposed to root for him.

I think people are projecting their hoped for values into a piece of corporate media and it's gonna disappoint them. There has been no end of interesting setups that conclude with "And liberal capitalist democracy is really the end of history". I can't help but think legend of korra here.

Maybe the showrunners will have some teeth at the end, but I expect the final message to be toothless.
 
Silco is a villain. Like utterly evil, and we are obviously not supposed to root for him.

I think people are projecting their hoped for values into a piece of corporate media and it's gonna disappoint them. There has been no end of interesting setups that conclude with "And liberal capitalist democracy is really the end of history". I can't help but think legend of korra here.

Maybe the showrunners will have some teeth at the end, but I expect the final message to be toothless.
I don't think we are projecting?

Like, I agree with everything you just said.

I'm just complaining about it.
 
I don't think we are projecting?

Like, I agree with everything you just said.

I'm just complaining about it.

Some people are. Trying to reinterpret the text of silco's character for example. They game him some nuance, not redeeming qualities.

At best you'll have little old lady toph on a branch telling us he had some good points, but he just took them too far.
 
Silco is a villain, but not one I actively dislike to see on screen. No, that'd be the cowardly fuck-up that is Marcus.
 
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Bluntly, talking about whether or not Arcane is somehow defending neoliberal capitalism is asinine. The entire focus of the show is about the exploitative and oppressive relationship between Piltover and Zaun, and how this relationship warps people into upholding it or breaks them down beneath the weight of misery. That is a highly political, deeply critical framework, and yet people in this thread are fixated on finding some kind of flaw or sign of treachery or inherent moral failing in the show because that's the only fucking way we can relate to media these days, apparently.

Take Squid Game, for example! Biggest show in the world for like a month, relentlessly critical of capitalism and the fabric of modern society from beginning to end, to the point where half the media wrote panicked articles about how it was being misinterpreted or was communist propaganda or whatever. Got all of two pages on SV because it apparently passed the smell test and so people stopped caring about it. You will notice that Squid Game also did not end with a revolution, because there are considerably more ways to engage with the topic than just stridently calling for the total overthrow of the established and oppressive system.

Can we please just enjoy the extremely pretty, well produced show with excellent characters and insightful commentary on the fucked up nature of class dynamics? Can we please, for once, not go over it with a fine toothed comb to find the slightest possible crumb of evidence that actually it's about to betray the revolution?
 
I largely agree, but say the reason Squid Game got all of two pages is because it had a binge release. It came out, people watched and discussed, then they moved on because it didn't stay in the consciousness.

Heck, if Arcane had been a full binge release, it wouldn't have gotten this many pages I feel.
 
And even then their attempts have pretty much amounted for nothing, Piltover's system of corruption remains untouched.

Even worse. Piltover's corruption actively subsumes Jace's innovations. Specifically fro the benefit of the council members and their interests.

As for Heimerdinger. I regard him as kind of the ultimate sympathetic criticism of a sincere centrist. Heimerdinger is productive, secure, fat, and content on the larges of the system he helped to create and make prosperous, and thus totally oblivious to the corruption that is swirling all around him. Just look at the way he nods along happily with the opera while all of his fellow council members are scheming and indulging in their own corruption.

Meanwhile, the little Yordle is by no means corrupt. He is genuine in his desire to help the city and is not unwilling to change. But slowly. So slowly. His long prosperous life causes him to be oblivious, again, to the urgency of the situation around him.

And then, when he finally tries to put his foot down, he's dismissed unanimously from the council he founded. Because the rest of the council was simply tolerating him due to the wealth he had brought them all.

The second he was more trouble than he was worth and they had a replacement for his source of invention in the form of Jayce, they cut him loose.

Like I've been saying, that's kinda the point.

The very methods of Clawing enough power together needed to affect change has in its course also shaped him into a Very callous and ruthless person. His entire philosophy revolves around becoming Callous and Ruthless enough that NO body will want to cross you, that No one would try to stop you from having your way. That this is the lesson he's learned from his time on the bottom.

Ie he sank lower for power, and it's Showing on his character. Its not an indictment on his cause, it's an indictment on the entire system which pushed more reasonable minds from being able to affect change, leaving people like him to become the ones who gain and hold power.

Of note. Silco isn't just in the same position as Vander with the enforcers. He's in the same strategic position as Vander was with Piltover*. Only potentially even worse off due to Jayce's introducing Hextech.

Silco himself says it. They're falling behind the top siders.

And this is completely correct as, due to its control of the gates, Piltover is from a strategic and economic perspective, wheresoever in the world it wants to be to benefit itself at any given moment. The only thorn in its side is literally Zaun because it sits on top of it.

So Zaun becoming worse off is not that surprising. The more powerful and independent Pilterfort becomes, the less it has to care about its mirror city. And they already cared VERY little.

* Actually, it's not quite the same Vander and Grayson have something of a cordial relationship. They are on opposite sides but commiserate in what they have to do to keep the peace.

Silco's relationship with Marcus meanwhile is out and out one of coercion and loathing.
 
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Bluntly, talking about whether or not Arcane is somehow defending neoliberal capitalism is asinine. The entire focus of the show is about the exploitative and oppressive relationship between Piltover and Zaun, and how this relationship warps people into upholding it or breaks them down beneath the weight of misery. That is a highly political, deeply critical framework, and yet people in this thread are fixated on finding some kind of flaw or sign of treachery or inherent moral failing in the show because that's the only fucking way we can relate to media these days, apparently.

Take Squid Game, for example! Biggest show in the world for like a month, relentlessly critical of capitalism and the fabric of modern society from beginning to end, to the point where half the media wrote panicked articles about how it was being misinterpreted or was communist propaganda or whatever. Got all of two pages on SV because it apparently passed the smell test and so people stopped caring about it. You will notice that Squid Game also did not end with a revolution, because there are considerably more ways to engage with the topic than just stridently calling for the total overthrow of the established and oppressive system.

Can we please just enjoy the extremely pretty, well produced show with excellent characters and insightful commentary on the fucked up nature of class dynamics? Can we please, for once, not go over it with a fine toothed comb to find the slightest possible crumb of evidence that actually it's about to betray the revolution?

I'm enjoying Arcane immensely. Silco just makes me sad. His analogues in history don't really exist. Revolutions don't happen because some leaders set them off. People like Silco, who believe moderates aren't really in touch with the oppressed, who do actually believe in some violence, are people like James Forman, Robert F. Williams. Things said people weren't: drug-pushers, wanting to murder indiscriminately, the cause of things getting worse.

And I haven't said that this makes Arcane a bad story. I'm disagreeing with the idea that the text so far thinks Silco is meant to have a point.
 
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Wrong, Silco is Lenin. Vander is Martov. Powder and Vi represent the Bolshevik Menshevik split. I will not explain myself
 
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Well
I guess we know how Vi joins up with the Piltover Enforcers:

Vi: ALL COPS ARE BAD



Vi: Dammit why is this cop so hot.

She betrayed her political values and social class for a cupcake. Fair enough.
 
Because the rest of the council was simply tolerating him due to the wealth he had brought them all.

The second he was more trouble than he was worth and they had a replacement for his source of invention in the form of Jayce, they cut him loose.
On a logical level you're right. But on an Emotional level... one has to remember that he's basically Piltover's old grandad. He's KNOWN most of these people since they were Children. He has for 200 years led them to Prosperity, personally cared for their wellbeings, and been a part of their lives.


They're responding to protect their assets yes... but I don't think it was a light decision on anyone's part. Which is what makes it even more tragic.


This isn't quite 'The Board acting ruthlessly' so much as 'Grandad you're old and you're out of touch...' with a side of self interest added in.
 
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I view Silco as a gang leader / mafia boss first and a reformer second. Hating Piltover is populist rhetoric in Zaun but the people of Zaun hate each other too. It is a bit difficult to stand with your neighbor when your neighbor will probably take the opportunity to snatch your wallet. A product of culture and material conditions. People in Zaun are more loyal to specific leaders or groups than the undercity as a whole.

The people of Zaun cannot rely on government police to enforce their personal or property rights so feudalistic gangs take up the role of government instead. I'm lead to believe a similar situation in poor immigrant communities lead to the formation of groups like the American Mafia. I'd guess Zaun originally started as a shanty town for immigrants or refugees that weren't allowed in the city proper.

Zaun likely is a lot more economically prosperous under Silco's heavy handed rule than it was before even with the drug trade due to the reduction in disorganized or unauthorized theft and violence. People can have and invest in nicer things when they know it won't get stolen. Of course that comes at the cost of the undercity-under class that need to steal to survive.

Now that I think about it the series is going really heavy with the parallels between Piltover and Silco. I'd forgotten until now the parallel with Silco sending the druggies and less productive people into the ravine, like an undercity under the undercity.
 
This isn't quite 'The Board acting ruthlessly' so much as 'Grandad you're old and you're out of touch...' with a side of self interest added in.

Maybe. But in that case I'd say it was more than just a side of self interest. More like self interest flavored with a side of (self indulgent) regret.
 
I view Silco as a gang leader / mafia boss first and a reformer second. Hating Piltover is populist rhetoric in Zaun but the people of Zaun hate each other too. It is a bit difficult to stand with your neighbor when your neighbor will probably take the opportunity to snatch your wallet. A product of culture and material conditions. People in Zaun are more loyal to specific leaders or groups than the undercity as a whole.

The people of Zaun cannot rely on government police to enforce their personal or property rights so feudalistic gangs take up the role of government instead. I'm lead to believe a similar situation in poor immigrant communities lead to the formation of groups like the American Mafia. I'd guess Zaun originally started as a shanty town for immigrants or refugees that weren't allowed in the city proper.

Zaun likely is a lot more economically prosperous under Silco's heavy handed rule than it was before even with the drug trade due to the reduction in disorganized or unauthorized theft and violence. People can have and invest in nicer things when they know it won't get stolen. Of course that comes at the cost of the undercity-under class that need to steal to survive.

Now that I think about it the series is going really heavy with the parallels between Piltover and Silco. I'd forgotten until now the parallel with Silco sending the druggies and less productive people into the ravine, like an undercity under the undercity.

Sounds like zaun needs to discover a collective consciousness.
 
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