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Money and Power: A Xianxia Merchant Quest

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@Mr. Prokosch, will we be keeping these Insight Bonuses for next stage? Because I'd hate to waste all our ponderings on the second stage and then be stuck rolling the third Merging flat. Also, are the experiments also ranked, or are we not allowed to know?
For the thread at large, we've got 14 Minor Insights and 1 Perfect so far, plus whatever bonus the experiments give and some Harmonizing bonuses which won't be relevant for a while yet.
[Insight] A Diamond is not made lesser by shattering, in any meaningful way. A Diamond is a Diamond is a Diamond. From a gem the size of an oxen heart to a crystal the size of a grain of sand, all true, pure diamonds are the same. If you shear a Diamond in twain, you do not get two halves of a Diamond. You get two Diamonds, each as pure and perfect as the original.
 
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[Insight] A Diamond takes in pure white light, and from it creates individual pure colors. From this we know that purity does not require isolation, but can be created in a harmonious blend of smaller parts.
 
The Froggy Ninja said:
@Mr. Prokosch, will we be keeping these Insight Bonuses for next stage? Because I'd hate to waste all our ponderings on the second stage and then be stuck rolling the third Merging flat. Also, are the experiments also ranked, or are we not allowed to know?
For the thread at large, we've got 14 Minor Insights and 1 Perfect so far, plus whatever bonus the experiments give and some Harmonizing bonuses which won't be relevant for a while yet.
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I haven't decided how I'll handle the next round mechanically but I'll make sure not to screw you over on it.
 
inverted_helix said:
Considering you can burn diamond with mundane fire, it seems like her diamond transformation somehow prevents her from burning diamond. Breaking diamond results in more diamonds, so maybe that doesn't count as destroying it. I don't see why this wouldn't be a problem with the forge though.
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What makes you think that the diamond being unable to burn is due to Chachi's transformation stopping her from something that anyone that didn't merge with diamond could do when a simpler explanation is that it's a sign that diamond holds slightly different material properties in a more supernatural world that stops anyone from burning it with that level of fire.

[Insight] Diamonds are not weak to fire.



The bolded text seems important for looking into the truth of diamond in future questions and I really want to see how using the Secret Ritual of True Spirit Refinement and Blessing of Efficiency would effect a diamond given they are linked to heaven and there powers come from there structure.

[Experiment] Diamonds are known to be connected to heaven, The Secret Ritual of True Spirit Refinement channels heavenly power into an object to boost it's performance in every way. Examining how a diamond changes when it's empowered by heavenly power will not only give us a better understanding of how diamonds are linked to heaven but it will also give insight on a diamonds other functions by increasing the effects for easier observation.

Now for the insights, lets start off with some revisions or expansions of what I saw in the last threadmark to try and fix up what was mentioned as wrong or missing.

The earlier insight into light was mentioned to have a crack in it so lets try to fix that I don't think that Lazers are relevant even if they are cool and would show that they can focus light. so lets look into how else lighting can effect diamonds and it was mentioned that UV light can cause an inner glow that can either add emphasis, change the color, or make the diamond appear hazy. Fluorescence Diamonds are a laser scientist's new best friend

[Insight] Diamonds shine with an inner light, that can glow even in darkness.

[Insight] Diamonds are not unbreakable, but they are unalterable. The core aspect of a diamond the purity of it's endless repetition cannot be changed without destroying it. A diamond will always be a diamond unless it is completely destroyed.

Diamond clears sight to see the heavens something is missing? Could it be with clarity you can remove the distortion from your sight rather then distraction. Combine with glasses experiment. In Buddhism the diamond is a symbol of pure insight and in the Diamond Sutra, Buddha teaches us to 'cut through' delusion to find the pure truth.

[Insight] The light of a diamond reflects the values of heaven, The abyssals are hurt by the reflection not because it reflects their sin but because evil cannot withstand the touch of good without trying to destroy it. Shining fate protects from humiliation because of how evil wishes to destroy what is good.

[Insight] The rigid spirit a diamond brings is because a diamond by it's nature is perfection. As such any changes are resisted as something that moves you away from perfection.

[Insight] A diamond is a multifaceted prism that reflects the truth of heaven with each facet. It's A shimmering beacon of heavens light to show the correct path and burn away the illusions the impure use to pretend they are righteous. Leaving in the end the only truth that matters the truth of beauty in purity.

[Insight] Purity is not a subjective belief but rather an objective truth and one can study what is pure and get an objective truth. This absolute and unalterable truth is the same truth that heaven draws upon to declare what is righteous.

[Insight] Beauty is a surface level truth for a diamond, for the flaws that the diamonds reject bring out their true beauty.


unsure about

Hypothesis the Lead in the soil was not purified as the lead was a separate object sharing the same space rather then a mixture. Follow up Expirement with the differences between solids liquids and gases. Solids can use alloys, liquids mixtures, I have no idea how to test gas.

Diamonds are not used in treasures because they are not receptive to the carving of Teotl waterways, which was a key step in traditional imbuement. Can we use the forge to build the waterways into the diamond without changing what the diamond is.
 
kitsune9 said:
Diamonds are not used in treasures because they are not receptive to the carving of Teotl waterways, which was a key step in traditional imbuement. Can we use the forge to build the waterways into the diamond without changing what the diamond is.
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If experiments are on the table now for anyone who already voted for the previous update, I will take it.

[Experiment] try to get understanding for how you can work diamonds with the forge, try different things, carving waterways, shaping them in the diamond's pattern, try to get it to work as a treasure without those waterways, see if those waterways count as impurities and if so try to make them vount as pure, maybe physically crave diamonds to see how it might influence the process.
 
ROTH963 said:
If experiments are on the table now for anyone who already voted for the previous update, I will take it.

[] try to get understanding for how you can work diamonds with the forge, try different things, carving waterways, shaping them in the diamond's pattern, try to get it to work as a treasure without those waterways, see if those waterways count as impurities and if so try to make them vount as pure, maybe physically crave diamonds to see how it might influence the process.
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I could be wrong but I had thought it would reset each round so that we could do follow up experiments.

Edit: This is a whole lot of fun and I'm enjoying it a lot but it's a shatter shot approach where we might need something more organized. What are we missing for perfect bonuses.
 
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[Experiment] Try to create 'impure' or flawed diamonds with the forge by including a single flaw in their crystal structure or including small cavities of foreign material. See if this is possible and how the resulting diamonds behave, are their purifying properties weakened?
 
I like this acclimation action, aside from being really fun, I think we will have massive improvement of our odds with so many small bonuses adding up.
 
Can't get the time to update today.

Only one experiment per voter. IC it represents that Chachi is working under limited time but also OOC so am I, but I also want to give every interested reader a chance to try whatever thing they're most interested in.
 
What is our in character knowledge about saints, we know they have weird powers, they care about stuff like karma, have cool heavenly powers and that making heavenly junk is extremely easy to them, is there more we know, famous historical saints, how the empire treat them and so on.
 
ROTH963 said:
What is our in character knowledge about saints, we know they have weird powers, they care about stuff like karma, have cool heavenly powers and that making heavenly junk is extremely easy to them, is there more we know, famous historical saints, how the empire treat them and so on.
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We know they tend to travel low profile, that even talking to them can help cultivation and that, while they can make Heavenly Conduits on purpose, they don't do so very often.
 
She knows all that, a few more common Saint Facts:

1. They are enigmatic and famously reticent about cultivation advice but when they do give it, it's highly effective.

2. Each goes by a weird title more often than a name. One of the most famous currently active is the Saint of Whispered Symphonies for example.

3. A Saint's individual power is comparable to a Lord, and Lords are able to wield the strength of millions (including a few hundred Transforming Cultivators, who are a good portion of that strength). It isn't exactly the same though, spiritually Lords tend to use a Sledgehammer and Saints a razor.

4. Saints are older than Lords. The third path used to not have the Lord branch.

5. They can do things that people think are bonkers impossible, even more so than Lords. No Lord can time travel but there are stories of Saints doing it.

6. The Great Sects are (at least nominally, a lot are absentee leadership) headed by a Saint. There are other sects but the Saint makes one Great.

7. No Saint owes fealty (and thus power) to a Lord. Neither does any Great Sect. There was a battle over it where the Saint of Whispered Symphonies killed a Lord, and that settled it. They do owe fealty directly to the Emperor.

8. The Emperor of Light was The Deva (step above Saint) of Law's Light before he invented Lordly Cultivation.

9. People often don't know where Saints are. They are able to veil their power and impersonate a weaker cultivator or even a mortal. There are fable-like stories of an arrogant cultivator encountering a mortal who is actually a saint and the subsequent face slapping. There are also stories of them traveling far outside the Empire. Chachi would guess they're exploring far off continents more often then they're pretending to be bartenders just to troll Patriarchs.
 
Mr. Prokosch said:
4. Saints are older than Lords. The third path used to not have the Lord branch.
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The general concept of Saints is older than Lords, or all currently living Saints predate the invention of Lordly Cultivation?
Mr. Prokosch said:
7. No Saint owes fealty (and thus power) to a Lord. Neither does any Great Sect. There was a battle over it where the Saint of Whispered Symphonies killed a Lord, and that settled it. They do owe fealty directly to the Emperor.
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Huh... I wonder how a saint swearing fealty to a lord would affect them, with their whole "strength of all of their subjects" thing and how it might or might not play with "Personal insight and the favor of heaven"
Mr. Prokosch said:
8. The Emperor of Light was The Deva (step above Saint) of Law's Light before he invented Lordly Cultivation.
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Interesting. I bet that actually makes him way more powerful than he would otherwise be, because he's got all the insight of a Heavenly Cultivator and all the brute force of a Lordly one.
 
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Subjects and the land itself. A Lord counts the trees, mountains, rivers, etc. and all the wildlife with their natural Teotl as his. A Lord is given the Land Bond by the Emperor, their strength varies significantly between each other because not all this land is equal. If their power grows vast enough the Emperor will tell them it's time to subdivide it and to recommend candidates for Lordly Ascension. A Duke has personal land but most of their territory is shared with the Lords beneath them. Lord - Duke isn't a qualitative change in power, it's just a matter of degrees.
 
Mr. Prokosch said:
The Emperor of Light was The Deva (step above Saint) of Law's Light before he invented Lordly Cultivation.
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[insight] The Emperor bound Law and Light to the land and Earth by inventing Lordly Cultivation. The Emperor rules with Mandate of Heaven and wields Light. The Emperor also has declared Abyssals as anathema. Diamond rejects the Abyssals and is of Earth and Order and attuned to Light and the will of Heaven (and fate). There is a confluence here, though whether the Emperor created it or this is a manifestation of a higher Truth is ... likely far beyond Chachi's ability to discover

[insight] Diamond has an affinity to clear and defined hierarchy both in terms of value and of organization.

[insight] Diamond is True because it cannot be ought but itself. To deviate is to cease to be diamond and thus all diamond is True diamond.

[insight] Diamond is associated with the number 4 due to the bonds its atoms make, and 1 due to its single element composition

[insight] Diamond is tied to emotions. Likely four of them, as the carbon that makes it up binds four times. Pride, Wrath, Love, and Refusal of Compassion.

[insight] Diamond is merciless and pitiless, a heart of stone unstained by compassion. Thus Diamond is characterized by an emotion perhaps best described as "Mu" or perhaps "Yin": An absence of compassion that is nevertheless an active emotion. Not merely an uniformed ignorance or apathetic disinterest but instead an active and decisive void.

[insight]Diamond symbolizes eternal love, but for all mortals romanticize eternal love, it is something utterly alien. A love eternal is a love unbound by judgment or care for whether the subject of its love is alive or dead or happy or sad or saintly or monstrous. It requires neither interaction nor contact and is closer to a static stone-like state of being than fleeting mortal passion.

[insight] Diamond is old, powerful, beautiful and pure. It exemplifies self righteous pride. A pride that everything is in its place or will be set in its place and that Diamond's proper place in the hierarchy is high indeed.

[insight] Diamond is wrathful. It hates with the fires of its birth, but hardened into the eternal cold fury of its crystalline form. Just as its love is eternal so too is its anger. There is no forgiveness for that which is Anathema.

[insight] Another reason the Diamond Soul is unable to form use techniques is that Diamond is passive. It does not act upon the world of its own volition. Unlike Chachi.
 
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Mr. Prokosch said:
Subjects and the land itself. A Lord counts the trees, mountains, rivers, etc. and all the wildlife with their natural Teotl as his. A Lord is given the Land Bond by the Emperor, their strength varies significantly between each other because not all this land is equal. If their power grows vast enough the Emperor will tell them it's time to subdivide it and to recommend candidates for Lordly Ascension. A Duke has personal land but most of their territory is shared with the Lords beneath them. Lord - Duke isn't a qualitative change in power, it's just a matter of degrees.
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If someone fucked off to the Wildlands or somewhere else outside the empire, could they just set themselves up as Lord, or do you need the many flavors of bullshit the Emperor of Light has to make the system function? Assuming an intro level Lord could hold their own long enough to start grinding towards civilization victory.
 
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You need the Emperor of Light to give you the Land Bond. Maybe you could re-invent it yourself but so far no one has. In the past he's been pretty supportive of people taking land in his name though. That's how the Turtle Lady, Swamp Lord, and Shattered Lord got their Titles. General consensus at the moment is if there was any land left that was reasonably conquerable at this point someone would have done it already, but anyone with the gumption can try it.
 
Mr. Prokosch said:
You need the Emperor of Light to give you the Land Bond. Maybe you could re-invent it yourself but so far no one has. In the past he's been pretty supportive of people taking land in his name though. That's how the Turtle Lady, Swamp Lord, and Shattered Lord got their Titles. General consensus at the moment is if there was any land left that was reasonably conquerable at this point someone would have done it already, but anyone with the gumption can try it.
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Clearly the correct answer is to claim the underground via giant robo-constructor-worms
 
Maybe instead of looking at just diamonds, she could also examine other crystals, to see the differences. Also, maybe she could try to create other allotropes of carbon, such as nanotubes, buckyballs, and graphene. After all a perfect formation of lonsdaleite is theoretically 58 percent harder than diamond.
 
mastigos said:
Clearly the correct answer is to claim the underground via giant robo-constructor-worms
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This is completely insane and has so many practical and political problems... but I like it

[Insight] Diamond's subtractive purity extends to purity of action, people are (somewhat) unable to take actions that would violate the contract
 
Mr. Prokosch said:
You need the Emperor of Light to give you the Land Bond. Maybe you could re-invent it yourself but so far no one has. In the past he's been pretty supportive of people taking land in his name though. That's how the Turtle Lady, Swamp Lord, and Shattered Lord got their Titles. General consensus at the moment is if there was any land left that was reasonably conquerable at this point someone would have done it already, but anyone with the gumption can try it.
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That's probably what everyone thought last time someone went and got more land. Obviously we just need to go get more.

...Does the land bond prevent a Lord from later becoming a Saint? Because our MC could probably eventually do it, and with the immortality of Diamond she'll have the time for it.

*****

I'm tempted to test if "harm against the pure" goes against diamond for my experiment, but I don't know a good way to phrase that test.

[Experiment] Investigate further into what diamond purifies things into. Why were you able to get both water and ethanol from alcoholic drinks? Why did lead not get purified? Is there some greater pattern to it? Some way to put what you've found into Order? Consider using diamond glasses or other aids to try and make a pattern clearer. (Also check with Two if there's any value to be found in the spicy purified poison powder, and if the poison purification market is too saturated for worthwhile expansion).

I believe I've mentioned this before, but it could be that this runs into "what counts as mixed (and thus Impure)" and "Refinement towards Purity".

Most (if not all) beers and wines would purify to water because that is their natural pure state. The other things are contaminates in the water. Distilled liquor and spirits however have been refined deliberately to remove the water for a higher concentration of ethanol. This means that water is now contaminating the ethanol so it purifies to just ethanol.

The mixture of the two is the perplexing case. My gut says that it's from mixing something that purifies to water with something that purifies to ethanol.

Lead in soil is either not considered mixed in a way that calls for purification, or is not considered to contaminate soil. I could understand the later case since metal is of the earth, so metal being in the earth is considered in line with the natural order of things.
 
[Insight] diamonds are not deceivers. Clear and nearly transparent, no lies may stay hidden within the purity of diamond for there is nothing to hide behind.

[Insight] even so light is refracted through diamonds crystaline lens, pure and unsullied by the shadows(lies) diamonds may be, but even so the light(truth) may be twisted and refracted through the lens.

[Insight] diamond is valuable in society, this much is undeniable. Yet truth be told diamonds are a more common stone than some realize, even so they are prized. For beauty and purity begets greed and the common can become rare for the price of blood.

^hamfisted attempt to try and bring the concept of blood diamonds and forced scarcity into things. Cus irl diamonds are a common stone but by monopoly and different kinds of scarcity are made expensive and rare.
 
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