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Money and Power: A Xianxia Merchant Quest

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[X] Aggressive

It'll ruin a lot of people's lives probably. I know just enough about economics to know that it's probably more complicated than people just deciding not to pay up.

Maybe write in that if they really have nothing to give to pay back to write off the debts, or if the payments start resuming, we can stop the knee-breaking?
 
[X] Aggressive
[X] New Hires (-1 income)

We're not in a position to be nice. Unfucking our finances is the priority

The agressive method also can act as an intimation method to any potential embezzlers. It might not stop them from embezzling, but it could get them to make up for the loss by putting it in accounts we're collecting on
 
[X] Aggressive

The benefit of Oku feeling like we care about her opinion is pretty significant, and I think this the best move anyway. Taking individuals to court doesn't have much deterrent effect on the rest. On the other hand breaking enough people's legs does encourage others who still have intact legs to pay up.

On the spending I feel like the tools would actually be the better solution, because it means less people to monitor and will be less expensive in the long run. I'm not sure it's worth overworking ourselves and possibly failing something else though. So just abstaining for now.
 
[X] Passive
[X] Administrative treasures (-$5)

Between our sister who's not in finance and our cousin who is in finance, I'ma have to go with our cousin.

Donno about adding 'training newbs' onto our cousin's plate. She's overwhelmed. Risk is a worry but we maybe won't get another project going on. Just slap magitech onto the problem and it'll work out fine!
 
[X] Dramatic
[X] Passive
[X] Administrative treasures (-$5)

I'm not interested in becoming/roleplaying the kind of person and the kind of clan that acts like a criminal organization. And we don't even have the excuse of saying there aren't systems in place to deal legally and morally with our problem. Arbiters and duels exist, and we should use them rather than breaking legs and stealing stuff. Karma is a thing in this setting, and even beyond that, the consequences of obviously illegal and ill-adviced actions will eventually create problems down the road. So we'd (maybe) solve an issue while creating more for us in the future, in a potentially vicious cycle that will either strangle us to death or turn us into something hideous.
Please, don't vote Aggressive.
 
If we choose [] New Hires now, later we can make [] Administrative treasures?

It will pop up again if you choose Build Infrastructure. You can also increase their budget as an order any quarter
 
We're about to piss off the local lord by closing up shop and letting him lose money. Engaging in leg breaking gives him a way to legally harass us. Aggressive is probably a bad idea.
 
LLSix said:
We're about to piss off the local lord by closing up shop and letting him lose money. Engaging in leg breaking gives him a way to legally harass us. Aggressive is probably a bad idea.
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In this case, the law will be on our side, since we are "merely" collecting on defaulted loans.

The only way this could hurt us (aside from greater Inspector scrutiny which should not be the case) is if we are attacked through publicity. And in that case, assuming we start the leg breaking on the worst (smal time) offenders, then publicity would probably do us more good than harm since publicity is what we aim with this endeavor anyway.
 
TimEd said:
In this case, the law will be on our side, since we are "merely" collecting on defaulted loans.
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Aggressive is explicitly the law-is-not-on-your-side option.
Mr. Prokosch said:
[] Aggressive

Badger them, threaten them, and if they still refuse to pay, outright steal their property. Such direct action is legally murky, but you can rely on your wealth, status, and power to protect you. They do owe you, after all. Oku supports this
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If you want to do the legal thing do dramatic.


It's probably too late to sway enough other voters, but this is my, please, anything but shooting ourselves in the foot with Aggressive vote.
[X] Dramatic
[X] Passive
 
LLSix said:
Aggressive is explicitly the law-is-not-on-your-side option.
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Not really.
Mr. Prokosch said:
"But that's illegal!"

Oku rolled her eyes at that, "It's not treason or nothing. Just a clan seeing to its business. City guards are there to scare off bandits and break up brawls. The fuck can they do to us? They go to a conehead and he'll laugh 'em out of the room. They could go to a Lord, if they can even swing that shit, but what does he care? We're not thieves, we're a respected clan with a grievance. Worst thing he'll do is ask for a kickback. They go to an arbiter, and he'll ask if they're challenging. If they challenge, we fuck 'em up so much harder. That's the way to go. It'll send the right message a lot faster, and you'll make some money out of it."
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It is explicitly said to not be illegal. And even the Option only calls it murky, and even then is still something that would only cause us problems if we decide to shake up the bigger factions that owe us money, which would be stupid since we have lots of tiny accounts to pick and make examples off of.

And before you question my or the qm's intelligence regarding the choosing of smaller accounts to make examples off of instead of the bigger factions, here is what was in story said just before the quote above.
Mr. Prokosch said:
Could you reconsider for some of the smaller, weaker accounts? We would select candidates where your victory is assured. We could even assign a team of representatives, if you're willing to let them duel in your name. That way it won't take any more of your time. If the public sees that we are publically challenging over our debts, they may be intimidated into paying on their own."

Oku spat on her rug, "nah, you've got it all mixed up. They owe you. They aren't paying you. Everyone knows you gotta break their legs.
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TimEd said:
It is explicitly said to not be illegal.
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Unless I'm missing something, you should look up what the word "explicitly" means.

But, either way, there's no reason to argue when we can ask the QM: @Mr. Prokosch , are the actions part of the Aggressive options legal? Feel free to give us a nuanced answer ("it's illegal, but the system works such as...") or just a straight up yes/no if that's the case, whatever you prefer, of course.

TimEd said:
And even the Option only calls it murky, and even then is still something that would only cause us problems if we decide to shake up the bigger factions that owe us money, which would be stupid since we have lots of tiny accounts to pick and make examples off of.
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No, it would cause some problems either way, with the "size" of them being directly proportional to the "size" of the factions we do it to ("big problems from big factions"), more or less.

It's straight up logic, probability, math even, and most importantly the law of Karma that the genre always talks about (and often ignores): do harm to someone and the reaction will be a negative one, and with all being interconnected, it will eventually come back to bite you in the ass.

I can think of a hundred different problems arising because of our Aggressive stance. It is (clearly, in my opinion) the option that has short term (debatable) value and long term issues.
 
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On top of the legal and moral issues with beating people up, do we really want to let people in this department get a taste of the joy of taking other people's stuff? People could hide some away for themselves, decide to go around beating up only tangentially related targets or decide that they want more and take advantage of the currently poor clan oversight and steal from us as well.

Ueuetlasa seemed rather shocked by this plan and so doesn't really seem the type to mange it well, will we put someone else in charge of it, and have them potentially get in a power struggle with her? (people eager to take others stuff tend to want to take your stuff as well), or will we ask her to do something that she seems to find distasteful and test her loyalty? We already have problems with disorganization, no need to add to them.

We could make enemies who may have backers of their own. We might annoy the coneheads with how much trouble we are making and work we are causing for them. We might anger the local lord by beating up his subjects.
The aggressive plan is full of problems both short and long term we would be better served by basically any other plan.

TimEd said:
I posit that gaining the reputation as a lender who can have their debts written off if they become too annoying is much more damaging to our short, mid, and long term prospects.
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We should absolutely not write debtors off if they become too annoying, but there is no reason we have to pursue them immediately.

[X] Dramatic
[X] Passive
[X] Administrative treasures (-$5)
I'd like to suggest more more alternate plan as well, it's mostly a variant of passive:
[X] Rumors
-[X] Task our mom to spread rumors that the clan head is not bothering to chase after the debts because she is currently pursuing something more profitable, but when she returns, she will see that all debts are paid.
 
I am of the opinion that we must show strength... That at least smaller clans and organizations respect us and have adequate fear... And don't forget, we are in a xanxia world... strength is respect.
 
We are under a rarity in in xanxia worlds though, a somewhat functioning government. The smaller clans fear the coneheads a lot more than they do us, we don't need to show our own strength, it's enough to show that we can use the coneheads against them if they don't pay up according to the empire's law.

I'm not saying that having strength isn't a good thing, it's just that it's not the right tool for the job here.
 
Like Oku says, it's illegal but it's not like it's treason. Legality can also be flexible for people like you.

There are a few Imperial Edicts like "any who trade with the Abyssals shall see their clan exterminated." They're enforced directly by the empire and tend to relate to the stability of it as a whole. There is no "if you murder someone you shall be put to death" among the imperial Edicts. That's not an offense against the Emperor. That's why a conehead wouldn't give a shit if someone came in saying the clan is dropkicking babies on main street.

Most day to day laws are enacted and enforced by the True Lord who is joined with that territory, or more realistically by whatever apparatus they use. The 1000 Rivers has 3 Lords and a Duke. The Duke does outlaw murder and theft, he prefers a peaceful, populous and prosperous society. His cities tend to have a bureaucratic government headed by an appointed governor that's often some kind of corrupt toady. They're in charge of enforcing the law and employ guards and investigators. They would intervene if you started dropkicking babies, but if you bribe the local governor enough the Lord may not hear about it. Normal people can't get a direct audience. You're being much less egregious than that, you could even argue that it's not really a home-invasion, assault, and robbery, it was just taking back what they stole from you. That's if they believe the report and if they don't just side with the respected clan by default.

There's also the arbitration system layered on top of this legal situation. Dueling is an ancient practice to resolve conflicts big and small throughout the Empire. Imperial Arbiters observe the terms and results of the duel, and can demand a duel be fought if they're convinced there's a legitimate grievance. They report it to the Imperial Record Keepers. Falsifying imperial records is an Imperial offense so following the terms of a duel, at least in letter, is a big deal. Someone could demand a duel, but they'll lose because you're intentionally picking people that will lose.
 
Adhoc vote count started by DangerKitty on Dec 12, 2020 at 3:24 PM, finished with 34 posts and 20 votes.
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Current standings.
 
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