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Memoirs of a Human Flashlight Thread 2: Now with more Arguments! [Exalted/Worm]

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Actually, fate expands pretty damn quickly, as it's not dependent on the Sidereals.

It's dependent on the Pattern Spiders, and the Five Maidens if they could ever get off their arses and attend to the Loom for a few days instead of the Games of Divinity.
 
Hazard said:
Actually, fate expands pretty damn quickly, as it's not dependent on the Sidereals.
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Fate expands quickly if there is Essence to expand over, seeing as it's an essence-magitech based system designed to manage a world consisting of pure essence. New sections of Creation carved out of the Wyld can become linked into Fate rapidly if Fated beings move in and link their fates to the new areas . . . and don't shake things up.

Needless to say Earth humans are Outside Fate and do not serve to propagate its spread in that manner yet.

It goes without saying that a Solar Exalt is the last thing in the universe one expects stable and static essence patterns to settle around for the long term. Sure, if one is dedicating themselves to doing exactly that, none will do it better . . . but that's such an ideal optimistic scenario as to make me chuckle.

Never mind the Worm part of the crossover, ha.
 
Golden Lark said:
Thankfully Lethe can generate limitless souls rather effortlessly from the Wyld; it only has trouble when 'processing' dead primordial souls. As game-start Creation is only a a tiny sliver of what it was in the wake of the Primordial War, Yu-shan has more than the capacity to handle an overlapped set of Earths.
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There are also all the Souls waiting for reincarnation. The First Age had a population in the billions, while the Third Age only had a billion, tops. The surplus souls were basically waiting for a spot to open up.

With the new Earths, this is probably the first time in millenia that wholly new souls were created.
 
@DakkaMania - I suddenly have this visual of the waiting line for reincarnation. It is a sad, slow place. There aren't any chairs, the magazines are at least an Age out of date, and you've already said everything that can be said to the people near you in line.

Suddenly an alarm starts to ring up ahead. You've never seen this before. It is new.

And then the God of Reincarnations starts screaming in a loud voice - "EVERYONE INTO THE POOL!" - and cackling maniacally.
 
Golden Lark said:
Yu-shan is filled with 'slum' districts full of Celestial gods whose purviews have literally been destroyed. Between the 3 Spheres Cataclysm and the Balorian Crusade, the vast majority of concepts, ideas, etc. were annihilated from Creation. Gods without purview (or with damaged purviews) can go mad, or start to cannibalize each other for power.
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Just a note, but the current divine employment crisis is a result of the Usurpation, Great Cogitation, and the Balorian Crusade, as well as Yu-Shan generally breaking down bureaucratically. The first three caused mass destruction of domains, and Yu-Shan being corrupt pencil pusher heaven meant you needed connections to even get one of the (now vastly reduced in number) jobs. The Three Spheres Cataclysm has jack and squat to do with it, on account of Yu-Shan actually working in the First Age, so new jobs could be found/made with little fuss.

If mass new jobs started opening up in Yu-Shan, the powerful positions aren't going to just randomly be handed out the unemployed (and thus connectionless) gods. They'd be fought over in a bureaucratic war for the ages by those that already have power, with the trickle down effect opening more positions lower down the tree as things balloon, creating more bureaucratic conflict. And keep in mind there are gods in Yu-Shan who's idea of 'bureaucratic fighting' is 'kick down the door of the other gods sanctum to fight them with a battle ax'.

It is entirely possible the Powers that Be are sitting on the news while they try and prep as best they can for what is to come.
mastigos2 said:
Well there's probably one weak god that is keeping very quiet about being the god of inter-dimensional travel and portals
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Luna is not a weak god. Ask her if you dare.
 
mastigos2 said:
I thought Luna was the god of Eating Raksha

Besides, I meant the little guy way down in the bureaucracy that handles that specific subdomain
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Luna is honestly less of a god and more of a ever shifting chthonic horror from Beyond that likes to pal around with the Sun and the Maidens and has a crush on Gaia.
 
mastigos2 said:
I thought Luna was the god of Eating Raksha

Besides, I meant the little guy way down in the bureaucracy that handles that specific subdomain
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Luna has fair number of domains and duties. A major one is boundaries between worlds.
Glories Luna said:
Intrinsically, Silver Chair represents all that is set apart from the sun—chiefly night, but also the existence of things that cannot stand the light, and all things from outside Creation that the sun does not substantiate with its contrast-giving rays. Designed as a dimensional control mechanism for Creation, it aids in defining the borders of reality. Initially this meant helping to substantiate the outer shores of the world, setting Creation apart from the Wyld, but it also came to encompass the borders of the first shadowlands, defining and concealing those doorways into the Underworld as soon as they emerged. When the gods usurped the Primordials, it was used in setting Creation apart from Malfeas, and though it has no control over the gates of Yu-Shan, it monitors those passages as a matter of course.

Silver Chair's main function, however, is a magnetic one, drawing on external realms in order to anchor Creation to them. In essence, by drawing upon the Wyld, and now Malfeas and the Underworld as well, Silver Chair is consistently pulling these forces into Creation, keeping them taut against its borders. It defines their parameters for existence so they don"t overwhelm Creation with their indefinite external properties. Simply put, Silver Chair helps Creation to interact with forces outside fate, so that these forces don"t simply collide with Creation and tear right through it, or wash over and consume it.
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Glories Luna said:
Her waning moon phase is represented by aspects of ominous portent and failing light, of the terrors of the night and the presence of things from beyond the world. Famous among these aspects is the Silver-Horned Watcher, whose appearance is in direct conflict with the alternate-Luna, Zatesh of Doorways, whom Luna keeps buried deep inside her psyche with the ferocity of the Watcher. Luna is sometimes seen carrying a falcastra that pulls and cuts the Wyld, which was the primary sign of Zatesh.
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So, what happens if a human gets an old-perhaps heroic-soul, when already adult?
 
Baughn said:
So, what happens if a human gets an old-perhaps heroic-soul, when already adult?
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Most likely?

Jack and squat.

Souls don't carry anything forward, memory wise, from their past incarnation. That's the whole point of the Lethe. There are oddball exceptions (the law of plot hooks demands it!) but as general rule, who your soul belonged to last is not important, nor will it have any affect. Unless your in Autochthonia, in which case it is massively important, but they specifically have a tracking system for this, since Alchemicals are tad important.

Exalted having past lives is a function of their Exaltation, not their soul. In a kinda-sorta-maybe-we-have-no-clue-but-that's-the-general-rule sense, as maybe Exaltations are drawn to souls it bonded to previously. Its a plot hook for a backstory, doesn't contradict anything, so yeah it's quite possible. It's not the norm/only option though.
 
Baughn said:
So, what happens if a human gets an old-perhaps heroic-soul, when already adult?
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Dreams, a small change in personality and interests over time. After all there is nothing Wrong with the cycle of reincarnation that might make problems.

Not like its gonna be too common. You would need some event in Creations past that killed like fifteen to twenty billion humans for that to be normal.
 
Kylar said:
Most likely?

Jack and squat.

Souls don't carry anything forward, memory wise, from their past incarnation. That's the whole point of the Lethe. There are oddball exceptions (the law of plot hooks demands it!) but as general rule, who your soul belonged to last is not important, nor will it have any affect. Unless your in Autochthonia, in which case it is massively important, but they specifically have a tracking system for this, since Alchemicals are tad important.

Exalted having past lives is a function of their Exaltation, not their soul. In a kinda-sorta-maybe-we-have-no-clue-but-that's-the-general-rule sense, as maybe Exaltations are drawn to souls it bonded to previously. Its a plot hook for a backstory, doesn't contradict anything, so yeah it's quite possible. It's not the norm/only option though.
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If souls don't carry memories, then what do they carry? What is their purpose?
 
Baughn said:
If souls don't carry memories, then what do they carry? What is their purpose?
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More or less, the lower soul is the 'engine' that provides drive and desires, and the upper soul allows for rational thought, so humans can pray. (Edit: At least, that's my understanding of it.)
 
I've been wondering: would Murphy's Law get a god in this scenario? Or really, would gods start forming at all?
 
Baughn said:
If souls don't carry memories, then what do they carry? What is their purpose?
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Huh. That... is a good question (plot hook alert! :p).

In all seriousness, I don't think there ever was a reason given specifically for the reincarnation mechanic, beyond linking into the Neverborns backstory. It probably was simple as the Primodials deciding they needed an automated metaphysical recycler, so they wouldn't have to deal with annoying leftovers (ei ghosts).
 
Kylar said:
Huh. That... is a good question (plot hook alert! :p).

In all seriousness, I don't think there ever was a reason given specifically for the reincarnation mechanic, beyond linking into the Neverborns backstory. It probably was simple as the Primodials deciding they needed an automated metaphysical recycler, so they wouldn't have to deal with annoying leftovers (ei ghosts).
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I had another look at that backstory. It's sounding to me like the soul/reincarnation system is an automated mind-destroyer?

That's completely backwards from how it usually works. I am impressed! And horrified.
 
iamnuff said:
if the personality/memories didn't get wiped off before reincarnation, then everyone would remember every life they had ever lived.
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But if it is, then it's... not really reincarnation. A soul that makes no difference... makes no difference.
 
Baughn said:
If souls don't carry memories, then what do they carry? What is their purpose?
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To allow the human that is currently using it to live and preform better rituals and pray to the primordials as is proper.
Baughn said:
I had another look at that backstory. It's sounding to me like the soul/reincarnation system is an automated mind-destroyer?

That's completely backwards from how it usually works. I am impressed! And horrified.
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If you take the rather reasonable stance that the upper soul is the mind, then yeah. That's right. Remember creation was not made for you. The things it was made for never thought death could happen to them.

If you assume reincarnation is gonna happen to you it kinda sucks, but less than nonexistence.
 
Baughn said:
But if it is, then it's... not really reincarnation. A soul that makes no difference... makes no difference.
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Buddhist reincarnation has it so you forget your past life as well, though some emotions may be sunk too deep to forget, and your basic human nature is generally consistent across iterations. Only upon achieving enlightenment can you know your entire span, past and present.

So that IS basically how reincarnation works to begin with.
 
iamnuff said:
thats the point.

souls carry memories, that get wiped off and it's sent out to live anew.

it'd be a funny old world if every single person alive remembered every past incarnation.


we'd all be fucking insane, for one thing.
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I don't know, Dragon Kings managed it fairly well.
 
Which means, given that I subscribe to the pattern theory of identity, that people are not reincarnating in any real sense at all - they just may share some of their machinery with people who lived in the past, but since none of their mind is in that machinery, it's no more relevant to their identity than, say, a kidney transplant.

Meanwhile, though episodic memories are not sufficient to make a mind, an exalted who remembers the exaltation's past life did in fact reincarnate. Partially. If they also get some skills from the past life, all the better.

Does that sound right?
 
Golden Lark said:
It also doesn't help that the location of these new purviews is unknown. The Bureau of Destiny might be quietly panicking about this, on top of their normal, routine panic regarding the thousand things about to unravel or ruin Creation proper at any moment. Newly employed gods can list the names and details about their new roles, like Electricity Generators or Internet Memes, and they might be able to manifest through such things given enough ambient Essence on the 'other side-' but they would not be able to travel there from Yu-shan, or lead anyone else there.

Mercury has been getting more questions than usual since this all started, from her Chosen and others.
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So the newly promoted gods don't have a version of the Hurry Home charm? I could see a couple gods/elementals trying to urgently teach them as time goes by. :)
 
Baughn said:
But if it is, then it's... not really reincarnation. A soul that makes no difference... makes no difference.
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You make it sound like humans were supposed to be important in Exalted. They were certainly not. Humanity was created to prayer cattle for the Primordials, a race of beings so weak that they didn't even bother to place a gease on us. This complete and utter irrelevance actually was of great benefit to us. It allowed the Gods to Exalt humanity and use them in the Primoridal War.

But is their any inherit value to a soul? No, no there is not.
 
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