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Mars Bleeds Red - A Red Planet Rising Quest

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Alright, here's my current plan

[] Plan: The Other Means, The Other Productions
-[] Guaranteed Basic Services
-[] Station Workplace Safety Regulations
-[] Legal Protections for Unions
-[] Community Public Service Control
-[] Anti-Corruption Internal Investigation
-[] Free Transit Within Shanxi Territory
-[] Open "Co-op" Meetings

As I noted, this slightly favors the strikers, but pretty narrowly, and it leaves control of the "political system" in the hands of Shangxi... however it lives control of education and hospitals in the community while guaranteeing housing, healthcare, etc to them, protecting unions, and getting that good Station Regulation.

It... does leave them unable to leave to Station, but we can work with that later once there's somewhere for them to go. It also does allow Shangxi to "investigate themselves" for corruption... but sacrifices do have to be made in negotiating a peace.

[] Temporary Governance - This council will be established in order to see Hephaestus through the process of nation establishment, with a guarantee of them joining the MPA as part of that. Once Hephaestus has repatriated major numbers of its citizenry and seen a restoration of their former claims and settlements, the council will be disbanded and hold new elections. Hephaestus will be guaranteed to join the MPA upon re-establishment of Hephaestus. However, upon their reclamation of their territory, depending on their relationship with Station, they may choose to form an independent bloc. This will neither gain nor lose reputation with Hephaestus.

I think this is best? It gives us a bit of control but doesn't hurt our reputation with Heph, which we should be increasing over the next few turns in order to keep them close?
 
DracoDracul said:
Is this favor loss costs just with Hephaestus, or with all factions?
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Right now, all Prodigal Sibling-related actions incur a favor loss with all blocs within the MPA, because they've got a lot of reservations about re-establishing a hostile polity, for various reasons. If this choice is taken, they're all going to go "alright, this is Station extending their sphere of influence, they've got Hephaestus firmly under their thumb. It may not be politically convenient, but it isn't an open threat, and its better than letting the guerillas get there first.", and that favor loss will no longer apply for all of those related actions.
 
The Laurent said:
Alright, here's my current plan

[] Plan: The Other Means, The Other Productions
-[] Guaranteed Basic Services
-[] Station Workplace Safety Regulations
-[] Legal Protections for Unions
-[] Community Public Service Control
-[] Anti-Corruption Internal Investigation
-[] Free Transit Within Shanxi Territory
-[] Open "Co-op" Meetings

As I noted, this slightly favors the strikers, but pretty narrowly, and it leaves control of the "political system" in the hands of Shangxi... however it lives control of education and hospitals in the community while guaranteeing housing, healthcare, etc to them, protecting unions, and getting that good Station Regulation.

It... does leave them unable to leave to Station, but we can work with that later once there's somewhere for them to go. It also does allow Shangxi to "investigate themselves" for corruption... but sacrifices do have to be made in negotiating a peace.
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I'd question how long they'll be able to run their community services if they don't have political power to ensure funding. I'd rather have a package that give them the means and reasons to reach out for more rather than defang them. Or let them out and weaken Shanxi that way.
 
Nyvis said:
I'd question how long they'll be able to run their community services if they don't have political power to ensure funding. I'd rather have a package that give them the means and reasons to reach out for more rather than defang them. Or let them out and weaken Shanxi that way.
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Hmm, maybe, if I did add in "Transit to Station" then what would we give Shangxi?
 
The Laurent said:
Hmm, maybe, if I did add in "Transit to Station" then what would we give Shangxi?
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Garrisons maybe? Do we care about them having troops if the plan is to have people leave rather than fight them. And it deals with potential worries about attacks by making Shanxi pay for it.

Not sure why we'd want to go for all the services if we also want the people to leave though. I'm not convinced this is a coherent strategic plan to deal with Shanxi.

I'm sleeeeeepy, might do plans tomorrow if I wake up.
 
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Nyvis said:
Garrisons maybe? Do we care about them having troops if the plan is to have people leave rather than fight them. And it deals with potential worries about attacks by making Shanxi pay for it.

Not sure why we'd want to go for all the services if we also want the people to leave though. I'm not convinced this is a coherent strategic plan to deal with Shanxi.

I'm sleeeeeepy, might do plans tomorrow if I wake up.
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Hmm

[] Plan: v2?
-[] Guaranteed Basic Services
-[] Station Workplace Safety Regulations
-[] Legal Protections for Unions
-[] Free Transit to Station Territory
-[] Stakes in the "Co-ops"
-[] Anti-Corruption Internal Investigation
-[] Shanxi Public Service Control
-[] Increased Garrison Numbers

This is 5-3, but it does give us more of an ability to recruit some people? In theory we could drop "Guaranteed Basic Services" in favor of a compromise (as in, 4-3), or the same with one of the other options, if we wanted to make it more balanced?
 
I think there are two viable paths, because revolution would just piss people off anytime in the next few years, and I don't think we need it.

1) Reconcile the Heph refugees where they are and strengthen their position as much as possible even if it means they won't leave in the hopes that Shangxi can reform from within with outside pressure?
2) Do a bit to help their lot, but also give them a route to Station, so that they can either stay there and contribute or join our incoming hopefully-allies in Heph.
 
[X] Plan: Hephaestus Goes, Shangxi Stays
-[X] Guaranteed Basic Services
-[X] Station Workplace Safety Regulations
-[X] Increased Garrison Numbers
-[X] Legal Protections for Unions
-[X] Shanxi Public Service Control
-[X] Open "Co-op" Meetings
-[X] Station-Guaranteed Anti-Corruption Initiatives
-[X] Free Transit to Station Territory

I think the best way forward is to set up ways for the Hephaestus refugees to leave, while making sure that the Shangxi citizens who take their place aren't screwed as a consequence. With that in mind, long-term political power within Shangxi for the refugees is less important than ensuring the mining camps aren't horrible places to work in. Create legal protections for unions, ensure that the safety regulations and anti-corruption initiatives are Station-grade, as well as set up a basic living guarantee. With the free transit to Station, the refugees don't need stakes in the co-ops, and we can safely leave the garrison duties as well as control over public services, to Shangxi.

[X] Temporary Governance - This council will be established in order to see Hephaestus through the process of nation establishment, with a guarantee of them joining the MPA as part of that. Once Hephaestus has repatriated major numbers of its citizenry and seen a restoration of their former claims and settlements, the council will be disbanded and hold new elections. Hephaestus will be guaranteed to join the MPA upon re-establishment of Hephaestus. However, upon their reclamation of their territory, depending on their relationship with Station, they may choose to form an independent bloc. This will neither gain nor lose reputation with Hephaestus.

As the strike negotiations will also give us two degrees of reputation gain with Hephaestus, it makes me feel that Temporary Governance is the way to go. Ensure that Hephaestus joins the MPA, and we can figure out if they join our bloc or create their own over the course of the next few months.
 
Doctor Elsewhere said:
[X] Plan: Hephaestus Goes, Shangxi Stays
-[X] Guaranteed Basic Services
-[X] Station Workplace Safety Regulations
-[X] Increased Garrison Numbers
-[X] Legal Protections for Unions
-[X] Shanxi Public Service Control
-[X] Open "Co-op" Meetings
-[X] Station-Guaranteed Anti-Corruption Initiatives
-[X] Free Transit to Station Territory

I think the best way forward is to set up ways for the Hephaestus refugees to leave, while making sure that the Shangxi citizens who take their place aren't screwed as a consequence. With that in mind, long-term political power within Shangxi for the refugees is less important than ensuring the mining camps aren't horrible places to work in. Create legal protections for unions, ensure that the safety regulations and anti-corruption initiatives are Station-grade, as well as set up a basic living guarantee. With the free transit to Station, the refugees don't need stakes in the co-ops, and we can safely leave the garrison duties as well as control over public services, to Shangxi.

[X] Temporary Governance - This council will be established in order to see Hephaestus through the process of nation establishment, with a guarantee of them joining the MPA as part of that. Once Hephaestus has repatriated major numbers of its citizenry and seen a restoration of their former claims and settlements, the council will be disbanded and hold new elections. Hephaestus will be guaranteed to join the MPA upon re-establishment of Hephaestus. However, upon their reclamation of their territory, depending on their relationship with Station, they may choose to form an independent bloc. This will neither gain nor lose reputation with Hephaestus.

As the strike negotiations will also give us two degrees of reputation gain with Hephaestus, it makes me feel that Temporary Governance is the way to go. Ensure that Hephaestus joins the MPA, and we can figure out if they join our bloc or create their own over the course of the next few months.
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Thought about it and actually this is okay. We'll need the + Hephaestus reputation to get it to work, and I don't think the strikers will stay even with more concessions if rebuilding Hephaestus is working and they're free to leave.
 
[X] Plan: Hephaestus Goes, Shangxi Stays
-[X] Guaranteed Basic Services
-[X] Station Workplace Safety Regulations
-[X] Increased Garrison Numbers
-[X] Legal Protections for Unions
-[X] Shanxi Public Service Control
-[X] Open "Co-op" Meetings
-[X] Station-Guaranteed Anti-Corruption Initiatives
-[X] Free Transit to Station Territory

I like it, honestly?

[X] Temporary Governance - This council will be established in order to see Hephaestus through the process of nation establishment, with a guarantee of them joining the MPA as part of that. Once Hephaestus has repatriated major numbers of its citizenry and seen a restoration of their former claims and settlements, the council will be disbanded and hold new elections. Hephaestus will be guaranteed to join the MPA upon re-establishment of Hephaestus. However, upon their reclamation of their territory, depending on their relationship with Station, they may choose to form an independent bloc. This will neither gain nor lose reputation with Hephaestus.
 
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It should be noted that Increased Garrison Numbers aren't just a funny way to keep the boot on a throat, they were raided only recently and professional Shanxi are probably superior defense forces.
 
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Khop said:
It should be noted that Increased Garrison Numbers aren't just a funny way to keep the boot on a throat, they were raided only recently and professional Shanxi are probably superior defense forces.
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A fair enough point, though hopefully we can at least push off the threat to Phoenix company this turn with our efforts.

But something to keep in mind.
 
[X] Immediate Governance

Unfortunately, we really have no choice if we want to avoid triggering another crisis like this. For every new Hephaestus action we take, we lose favor with the other blocs, unless we take this action. Sorry, but I don't see any way to integrate Hephaestus without causing a total collapse of the MPA.

[X] Plan: Hephaestus Goes, Shangxi Stays
 
gutza1 said:
[X] Immediate Governance

Unfortunately, we really have no choice if we want to avoid triggering another crisis like this. For every new Hephaestus action we take, we lose favor with the other blocs, unless we take this action. Sorry, but I don't see any way to integrate Hephaestus without causing a total collapse of the MPA.

[X] Plan: Hephaestus Goes, Shangxi Stays
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We only have two more of those to take at all at the moment, and we have the ability to focus our economy in such a way as to make up for that.

Like, Favor is "Easy come, easy go." There's still arguments for doing "Immediate Governance" but I think worrying about the MPA collapsing is a bit alarmist.
 
Oh this update reminded me of something that I was assuming I had typed but looking back I've neglected to bring it up. Another prime motivator behind my dovish stance on the MEF is the geographical disposition not of ODIN but of MBC.

If we close trade and this escalates to totally closed borders then we will be bereft of any option to run a rail line to the Greens who have the only fully functioning terrafromer and are in my view the most important partner in the alliance. I can only apologise for the oversight in not harping on this already.
 
To clarify, the following actions are Prodigal Sibling:

"Prodigal Sibling is specifically the set of actions unlocked for re-establishing Hephaestus
Namely:
Offers of Amnesty and Asylum
Propaganda for Hephaestus
Establish a Hephaestus Government-in-Exile
and, once it's available
the action related to resettling the Hephaestus government in their territory.

Once they're re-established and haven't immediately betrayed you
[6:56 PM]
the favor costs will go away because the MPA will be like 'alright I guess you know what you're doing then'"

So there are three more options that have that Bloc cost, and at the moment with the gains we get from our Focus, we'll be back to Favored by all Blocs by next turn in time to do Propaganda for Hephaestus.
 
[X] Immediate Governance

[X] Plan: Hephaestus Goes, Shangxi Stays
 
We're going to hurt our relations with Heph for a mess of pottage that we really don't need and people aren't even actually justifying it or responding to concrete points against it.

We need relations with Heph and we have been doing a good job this turn in balancing the Favor Loss of the Prodigal Sibling actions. Ultimately, if Heph is pissed at us it doesn't matter how much we've sold it to the rest of the Bloc, and we can much easier make up temporary Bloc disfavor than add in more actions beyond the ones we already have to climb the tall mountain from "Poor" relations to Good relations.
 
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Like, in total we have four possible actions, maybe 5, well let's say 6, to build up our reputation with Heph, and thus make them a friendly government without openly engaging in puppeteering.

Government-In-Exile (where we can instead piss them off)
Shanxi Strike
Propaganda
Asylum
Heph Lives
MAYBE the install the government one, but I doubt it? If the government isn't popular, then installing it won't help.

Meanwhile, as far as options for restoring a lost favor every so often, favor which is literally meant to be spent, you know what we have?

Literally an automatic free economic focus we're taking right this second?
 
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[X] Plan: Hephaestus Goes, Shangxi Stays
-[X] Guaranteed Basic Services
-[X] Station Workplace Safety Regulations
-[X] Increased Garrison Numbers
-[X] Legal Protections for Unions
-[X] Shanxi Public Service Control
-[X] Open "Co-op" Meetings
-[X] Station-Guaranteed Anti-Corruption Initiatives
-[X] Free Transit to Station Territory

[X] Temporary Governance - This council will be established in order to see Hephaestus through the process of nation establishment, with a guarantee of them joining the MPA as part of that. Once Hephaestus has repatriated major numbers of its citizenry and seen a restoration of their former claims and settlements, the council will be disbanded and hold new elections. Hephaestus will be guaranteed to join the MPA upon re-establishment of Hephaestus. However, upon their reclamation of their territory, depending on their relationship with Station, they may choose to form an independent bloc. This will neither gain nor lose reputation with Hephaestus.
 
Small note: Just realized I hadn't included the faction reputation/personal reputation explanations even as I did the situation ones in status: That has now been fixed. My apologies!
 
Oh also, more news! An update to the Station Sheet.
it means you are hated by all anti-Station factions, except Hephaestus, where your reputation seems to be poor instead.

Faction Reputation Scale
Special>Great>Good>Decent>Neutral>Low>Poor>Hated>???

[] Plan: Hephaestus Goes, Shangxi Stays

Raises this from Poor to Neutral, and so it'd be pretty foolish to reduce it back down to Low, because that means Propaganda and Heph Lives should get us to Good, and so we'll be at something like Great by the time we establish the government. I think it's valuable not to lose that bit of goodwill now, considering that we have a long road to climb.
 
[X] Plan: Hephaestus Goes, Shangxi Stays
-[X] Guaranteed Basic Services
-[X] Station Workplace Safety Regulations
-[X] Increased Garrison Numbers
-[X] Legal Protections for Unions
-[X] Shanxi Public Service Control
-[X] Open "Co-op" Meetings
-[X] Station-Guaranteed Anti-Corruption Initiatives
-[X] Free Transit to Station Territory
[X] Temporary Governance - This council will be established in order to see Hephaestus through the process of nation establishment, with a guarantee of them joining the MPA as part of that. Once Hephaestus has repatriated major numbers of its citizenry and seen a restoration of their former claims and settlements, the council will be disbanded and hold new elections. Hephaestus will be guaranteed to join the MPA upon re-establishment of Hephaestus. However, upon their reclamation of their territory, depending on their relationship with Station, they may choose to form an independent bloc. This will neither gain nor lose reputation with Hephaestus.
 
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