Magus Ascendant (Warlock of the Magus World/The Gamer inspired quest)

[Kolarthecool]

I am quite ignorant of the story, but considering the debt to Klaus is going to get even larger and he's currently about to go away, would it not be worthwhile to spend some time socializing with him while he's still here. Given the sheer debt the character owes him, he's going to be a major factor in her life for a long time.

Edit @Kolarthecool - Your relationships spoilers on the character sheet are messed up, with some spoilers being within other spoilers being within other spoilers. Look at the minor enemy under Alicia's spoiler.

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Thank you. Fixed them. Missed a couple /spoilers.

Building a relationship with Klaus sounds like a good idea on paper... but while I argue that not everyone in this setting is a jerk, they are still incredibly selfish and manipulative. Don't expect any relationship (other than one where you stand above him and his Rank 3 grandfather) to have an effect on your debt. You're still an investment and his lesser in every way that counts. If you die right now, he's out 10 Magic Crystals, that's chump change to someone like him. Get deeper in debt and he'll be just be more interested to see it paid back. Form a deeper connection and you just give him more strings to pull to reel you in.

No, I meant gaining knowledge.
Like, once we've spent ~8 hours asking the trio we hang out with, flesha, and sending a letter to klaus (for information that will be sent when we reach the academy which is perfectly fine), the only people left are the acolytes. And since they're on the other side of a barrier which they maybe don't cross, we basically have no other routes to getting the knowledge left so there's not much of a point in spending yet another 13 hours trying to do so. Is this correct?

Your "when I railroad I go all the way" comment was sufficient, tho.

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Ah, I see. Sending a letter asking Klaus is fine. I meant that stuff like Magic Crystals, a new sword or some books will only show up later on. A reply letter answering questions is possible. You can also ask one of the acolytes on the other side of the barrier as well but it will have to be in letter form and you don't really have much of anything to offer them. An IOU might work if you offer enough crystals.

The main problem is what you're asking about and who. Flesha is already off the ship so not possible. Your fellow initiates know about as much, if not less, as you do on the subject of energy circulation and magic. Asking Klaus will come down to a flip or a roll, and even then h's likely to just give you a few useless tidbits. Not to be a jerk or cause I'm railroading, but because they really do try to keep knowledge about magic a secret and there's laws around that kind of stuff. The stuff you're after is freely handed out once you're in the academy but getting it outside of it is close to impossible.

Also there's a couple special skills that you'll need in order to access your magic, I just can't think of a credible way to give them to you guys at this point in time.

Won't the entry level books be provided by the academy? Why do we need to get them just a few days earlier?

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This ^^^.

Everything you guys are trying to get is literally a week of travel away, you pretty much get all the stuff you need to access your magic within your first hour in the academy.

 

[Unseelie]

This ^^^.

Everything you guys are trying to get is literally a week of travel away, you pretty much get all the stuff you need to access your magic within your first hour in the academy.

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But wouldn't they notice when their books vanish?

 

[Kshail]

We don't have to use the skill books...in fact given our experience where we refused to use the Language book we'd be better off rereading it constantly.

 

[Umi-san]

Everything you guys are trying to get is literally a week of travel away, you pretty much get all the stuff you need to access your magic within your first hour in the academy.

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I'm trying to get stuff better than the entry level books. Although, tbh, I'm operating on the assumption that this school will be as pay-to-win as the original story's seemed to be.

Considering that Klaus straight up gave us advice on how to change our energy flow (admittedly as a way to demonstrate that he can see inside us, like a sick perv) I figure even what tidbits he feels like sparing will be worthwhile.

Flesha is... too bad. I don't suppose we can send her letters in the future? (Editing to account for that.)

We don't have to use the skill books...in fact given our experience where we refused to use the Language book we'd be better off rereading it constantly.

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Depends on the skill. This applied to a language book but for magic and physical skills reading can't do much past a certain point, meaning we'd be better off using the skill book then actually practicing the skill.
@Kshail

[X][reply] Answered vaguely (no gains or losses)
[X][help] Yes (huge increase to debt).
[X][restock] Yes.
[X][restock 2] Magic Crystals (provide a number. Hint: 30~ would be a decent amount for 3 months)
-[X] 40
[X][cameos] Eh, idc really.

[X] Plan Sword and Study

Like I said, it's a placeholder deployed just before I went to bed.
Gladly swapped now that a more refined one showed up

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[Kshail]

Oh yeah I realized he switched to a dif plan after I had posted. So my namevote w/e comment is pretty invalid. I just didn't like the 'refined' version so I overlooked voters for that at first.

Well I guess there's a point there. I just dislike losing books that we're probably gonna be expected to be seen studying/using at some point.

 

[Umi-san]

I just didn't like the 'refined' version

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What can I do to make it less objectionable?

I guess that that's true. But we'll probably be in a separate room and, if we're not, can just put ourselves forward as a genius who doesn't really need to study, if necessary. Or, if there's a library, we can just study different books there and hope no one is keeping track of what we actually read.

If we have to return the books, though, we're screwed.

 

[Mellithae]

[X] Plan Make Positive Connections

?

I like this one best.

 

[Kolarthecool]

'm trying to get stuff better than the entry level books. Although, tbh, I'm operating on the assumption that this school will be as pay-to-win as the original story's seemed to be.

Considering that Klaus straight up gave us advice on how to change our energy flow (admittedly as a way to demonstrate that he can see inside us, like a sick perv) I figure even what tidbits he feels like sparing will be worthwhile.

Flesha is... too bad. I don't suppose we can send her letters in the future? (Editing to account for that.)

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There will be a number of free things, you could make it far without paying for anything. Paying gets you far ahead though. Most noticeably, lessons from a professor will cost you a Magic Crystal but will be better than listening to a free lecture. Then there are areas, foods and other things that give a boost to cultivation. Those will cost money.

His advice was in regards to your Knight training and very minor in the grand scheme. Advice for magic is on a different tier.

You can send letters yeah but it'll cost you and take time. The distance involved is massive and you're both too weak for the more rapid methods.

 

[Umi-san]

There will be a number of free things, you could make it far without paying for anything. Paying gets you far ahead though. Most noticeably, lessons from a professor will cost you a Magic Crystal but will be better than listening to a free lecture. Then there are areas, foods and other things that give a boost to cultivation. Those will cost money.

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I see. A list of prices handed out when we arrive or whatever would be much appreciated.

How long do lessons from a professor tend to last? Are there cheaper varieties that are still more effective than a free lecture would be? Are there books (i.e. is there a library) that offer the equivalent in knowledge to a free lecture?

Speaking of foods, is there like, a cooking art or something?

His advice was in regards to your Knight training and very minor in the grand scheme. Advice for magic is on a different tier.

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Oh so magic energy flow isn't related to the Knight training? Kk. I'd just assumed they were both the same thing but that knights just had a weaker talent or something.

You can send letters yeah but it'll cost you and take time. The distance involved is massive and you're both too weak for the more rapid methods.

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How much will it cost and does the weight matter significantly?

 

[Kshail]

What can I do to make it less objectionable?

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It's really just I don't know what you're expecting to get our of this. So I can't really see the worth.

Business & Trade - What do we plan on doing with this? At this point we're not gonna get much of a return on this. Price Checking? Well maybe later but I was under the impression we'd be spending our resources on our education rather than the normal costs of resources an acolyte can find out about.

Energy Circulation/Flow - Klaus isn't gonna give us much charity/help unless it's to get us more in debt. Asking about someone's knight training seems a bit intrusive and I'm not really sure why we would want that unless we plan to buy their technique or something. Knight stuff is pretty much a supplementary path.

 

[Umi-san]

It's really just I don't know what you're expecting to get our of this. So I can't really see the worth.

Business & Trade - What do we plan on doing with this? At this point we're not gonna get much of a return on this. Price Checking? Well maybe later but I was under the impression we'd be spending our resources on our education rather than the normal costs of resources an acolyte can find out about.

Energy Circulation/Flow - Klaus isn't gonna give us much charity/help unless it's to get us more in debt. Asking about someone's knight training seems a bit intrusive and I'm not really sure why we would want that unless we plan to buy their technique or something. Knight stuff is pretty much a supplementary path.

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R.e. Business & Trade -
a) I took it from veekie's plan and gave it more topics than magic crystals.
b) I'm interested in learning this topic because it reduces expenditures (price checking) and conflict (knowledge of customs r.e. bartering etc.) and increases returns (price checking; knowledge of what materials are valuable and who/which areas produce them). We'll be spending our resources on that which increases our power. This includes the normal resources. Being efficient is appealing to me.

R.e. Energy -
When I wrote this part I was assuming that the energy flow was a generalizable principle. Considering that this knowledge is something we'll get from the school early on, I'm probably not completely wrong. Considering that we'll be getting the info for free, I should probably just cut it entirely. But the 4 hours I've downgraded ~knowledge searching~ to after successive revelations isn't that much time. The 7 hours experimenting w/ Klaus' advice, tho... Well, it's kind of worth it still.

b) Asking about knight training: Asking people about how their energy flows work is useful because it builds up to an encompassing theory/understanding of how energy flows and meditation functions. It's probably somewhat intrusive but we're the rustic orphan girl who just took up knight training while they're the super experienced noble kids. Hopefully not an issue.

c) We've already argued whether knight skills are worthwhile, iirc. Magus skills = spiritual power. Knight skills = life power. Having comprehensive strength is important.

 

[Alectai]

R.e. Business & Trade - It's basically just taken from the plan you're voting for and given a more diversified range of topics than magic crystals. I'm interested in it because our resources should be spent on what gains us power and pays off our debt. This includes the resources a normal acolyte would spend their resources on to increase their power because these things are likely to increase our power. We will pay off our debt faster if we find out what things are profitable. If you want to debate the value of making money I don't know what to say. It's worth doing it now because we don't have much else competing for our time atm. Especially if you don't see the point in Knight skills.

R.e. energy - Basically when I wrote the question I was assuming that Knight training is related to magic, and thus that knowing how energy flows work would help us cultivate magic. Considering that this knowledge is something we'll get from the school early on, I'm probably not completely wrong but it's maybe not useful to pursue it to even w/ the 4 or whatever hours I've downgraded it to. Asking people about how their energy flows work is useful because it builds up to an encompassing theory/understanding of how energy flows and meditation function.

Considering that a Grand Knight totally can beat up acolytes left and right and iirc face off a Magus, the Knight path is not worthless. Considering that the Magus path increases offensive and spiritual power but not, to my knowledge, physical prowess the Knight path is not useless and in fact will lead to a more balanced and thus more capable end result. We've already argued whether knight skills are worthwhile, tho.

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Incorrect, Grand Knights can fight Grade 2 Acolytes, but threes will usually win, and a Grade 1 Magus will kill an arbitrarily large number of them until they get tired.

This is a setting where Fighters become irrelevant at the instant a caster can use level 2 spells, using DnD as a reference.

Only way to get good physical skills is to become a Warlock, and that has issues of its own if you don't have an omnipotent research familiar glued to your soul.

 

[Kolarthecool]

I see. A list of prices handed out when we arrive or whatever would be much appreciated.

How long do lessons from a professor tend to last? Are there cheaper varieties that are still more effective than a free lecture would be? Are there books (i.e. is there a library) that offer the equivalent in knowledge to a free lecture?

Speaking of foods, is there like, a cooking art or something?


Oh so magic energy flow isn't related to the Knight training? Kk. I'd just assumed they were both the same thing but that knights just had a weaker talent or something.


How much will it cost and does the weight matter significantly?

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You will get information on your choices and the costs.

It'll either be a single lesson for a lot of knowledge points or multiple little lessons, depends which works best with the system. You'll have other choices as well, reading in a library, performing an experiment, etc. A lot of the learning in this setting comes from self study and experimentation, the basics are all you can expect to be handed to you.

Cooking falls under the potion making half of Alchemy actually. Well, cooking food with effects at least. You can get a regular cooking skill but the special foods that involve mixing magical ingredients count as alchemy.

Nah, Knights stimulate their life energy to improve physical stats. Magi use their Spiritual Force.

As long as its something that can be carried by a person/mount it'll cost ~1 Magic Crystal per day of travel. So 14 crystals to send it to her academy which is two weeks away by fast travel. Edit: traveling the continent is super dangerous for all but the strongest Magi, most people will never leave the city they are born in.

 

[Umi-san]

As long as its something that can be carried by a person/mount it'll cost ~1 Magic Crystal per day of travel. So 14 crystals to send it to her academy which is two weeks away by fast travel.

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*spits out water*
*crosses her off the friend list*

 

[drake_azathoth]

*spits out water*
*crosses her off the friend list*

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That's going to be fairly affordable once we start moving up the acolyte ladder or certainly as a Mage. Part of the reason I was a bit nervous about requesting help with Lucifer is his bribe is likely to be absurdly greater than anything else we've been offered.

Takes things from 'here's a thousand magic crystals now we're square' to pretty much requiring us to give them something really bullshit. Though in all fairness Gamer are a source of nigh-infinite bullshit.

 

[Umi-san]

That's going to be fairly affordable once we start moving up the acolyte ladder or certainly as a Mage. Part of the reason I was a bit nervous about requesting help with Lucifer is his bribe is likely to be absurdly greater than anything else we've been offered.

Takes things from 'here's a thousand magic crystals now we're square' to pretty much requiring us to give them something really bullshit. Though in all fairness Gamer are a source of nigh-infinite bullshit.

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Given time to grow, gamers will S-shape themselves out of the setting yeah.

How high ranking/not are the professors, if we can get enough crystals to make a 14 crystal/letter cost negligible yet they charge only a crystal a lesson?

 

[Kolarthecool]

Given time to grow, gamers will S-shape themselves out of the setting yeah.

How high ranking/not are the professors, if we can get enough crystals to make a 14 crystal/letter cost negligible yet they charge only a crystal a lesson?

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Most will be low to mid Rank 1. They tend to be the poorer Magi with little to no connections that have little choice but to sign a contract with the academy. One that the duration of which is usually measured in centuries.

A single crystal from multiple students for basic lessons adds up. They can also try to tempt you into paying more (500+) for some advanced knowledge.

Edit: Plus they get paid a salary from the school, the cost is mainly to hinder the students. Don't forget that the academies dont actually want you all to advance. Too many offical magi means less resources to go around and the start of another war to thin the numbers. The costs and limitations are to weed out the unexceptional and unlucky.

 

[drake_azathoth]

Incorrect, Grand Knights can fight Grade 2 Acolytes, but threes will usually win, and a Grade 1 Magus will kill an arbitrarily large number of them until they get tired.

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IIRC Grand Knight is generally considered the equal of a typical rank 1 Magus at any close range. A 'prepared' Magus who keeps long range or gets the drop on a Grand Knight will win, but a 'prepared' Grand Knight who does surprise a Magus at close range will crush most rank 1s. OTOH Rank 2 mages stomp and outside close combat mages do everything better and more besides.

Gamer could change all that though for a variety of reasons and we could potentially put together advancement info for crazy stuff like Rune Knights or that bioarmor knight thing.

 

[Alectai]

IIRC Grand Knight is generally considered the equal of a typical rank 1 Magus at any close range. A 'prepared' Magus who keeps long range or gets the drop on a Grand Knight will win, but a 'prepared' Grand Knight who does surprise a Magus at close range will crush most rank 1s. OTOH Rank 2 mages stomp and outside close combat mages do everything better and more besides.

Gamer could change all that though for a variety of reasons and we could potentially put together advancement info for crazy stuff like Rune Knights or that bioarmor knight thing.

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If "You can crush your opponent, if you're on your favored ground, against a target you've prepped against, who doesn't know you're there" is the standard for being an 'Equal', then... Uh.

Basically, what it comes down to is that WMW is a shitty setting that's built from the ground up to glorify sociopathic hyper-darwinism, where everything is a trap and success is basically determined by how morally bankrupt you are, where no amount of effort will replace natural talent and backing. The MC kind of gets around it because he has his nigh omnipotent AI Chip being able to simulate anything with its hypersenses, and thus he can pluck out the perfect means to become overpowered and subvert all the myriad traps that are designed to fuck over up and comers, and thus, is incapable of making a mistake, especially since he's a hyper-sociopath with no loyalties and a willingness to stab anyone in the back as long as he gains marginally superior benefits from doing so then remaining loyal is.

Like, it requires actual, determined effort to make a setting this shitty. I could probably stomach it if it was played as a parody or some kind of social commentary, but it continually talks like this kind of shit is the ideal society where everyone is perfectly rational and only acts according to their own self interest. It plays the whole thing straight, and that's why I dislike it so much.

I mean, the writing of this particular quest is pretty good so far, but is shackled to the fact that WMW is a horrible setting built from the ground up to demand sociopathy just to survive, and overpowered cheats if you want to actually thrive.

Society doesn't work that way. At least not any society that's worth a damn.

 

[Umi-san]

If "You can crush your opponent, if you're on your favored ground, against a target you've prepped against, who doesn't know you're there" is the standard for being an 'Equal', then... Uh.

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I don't see why "this whole setting is shitty" is a good excuse to ignore logic.

Can a person with a gun beat a martial artist with 15 years of training and 4 black belts?
Yes, if they're standing far enough away, have decent reaction time and aim, don't get shaky hands, and the martial artist isn't that great at dodging back and forth.
Can a person with a sniper rifle beat an unaware martial artist with 15 years of training and 4 black belts? Yes, no shit.

Can a martial artist with 15 years of training and 4 black belts beat someone with a gun who isn't aware of their presence, if the martial artist is close to them? Yes, no shit.
Can a martial artist with 15 years of training and 4 black belts beat someone with a gun who is aware of them and if the martial artist is close to them? Yes, if the martial artist is close enough, or is decent at juking the shooter out, or can use environmental weapons.

Someone who is specialized at melee combat can typically beat someone who is specialized at ranged combat when at close ranges. The inverse is true at non-close ranges. Impacting this would be what gimmicks and defenses each party has - a bullet proof vest is a good defense, after all.

The fact that the modern world has guns and nukes does not render hand-to-hand combat and physical fitness irrelevant. We give soldiers both guns and krav maga.

 

[Kolarthecool]

IIRC Grand Knight is generally considered the equal of a typical rank 1 Magus at any close range. A 'prepared' Magus who keeps long range or gets the drop on a Grand Knight will win, but a 'prepared' Grand Knight who does surprise a Magus at close range will crush most rank 1s. OTOH Rank 2 mages stomp and outside close combat mages do everything better and more besides.

Gamer could change all that though for a variety of reasons and we could potentially put together advancement info for crazy stuff like Rune Knights or that bioarmor knight thing.

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I think Grand Knights still lose out. Rank 1 Magi have their innate defensive spell after all, those block a minimum of 15 to 20 pts of damage or so. Grand Knights can only put out 8 to 10 pts of damage, maybe more if they charge up a super noticeable attack.

Leylin's Branded Knights were able to hold out against rank 1 magi but the power expenditure was slowly killing them. Even going all out and self destructing, they could barely hurt a rank 2 Magus.

I plan to make the Knight arts more viable thanks to your Gamer power but even then it will act as a way to supplement your Magus abilities rather than a form of power to match a Magus.

 

[drake_azathoth]

@Alectai While true that is basically what the xianxia genre is all about. It's distinctly Chinese escapist literature rather than Japanese or Korean, and the frequent commentary on hidden inequality and corruption beneath a supposedly equal playing field is a none-too-subtle 'take that' at Chinese socialism which it can easily get away with because it's not revolutionary literature either. Granted, the idea of heroic revolutionaries in China is a very tarnished image anyway.

Which is not to say it isn't 'a shitty setting that's built from the ground up to glorify sociopathic hyper-darwinism' but that describes Xianxia in general and the setting of WMW certainly does a better job of establishing interesting conflict than most fantasy settings- it's just the moral Aesops that result are more pragmatic than Western society would usually embrace.

So yeah, not pleasant, and not everybody's cup of tea, but it's nice to see something distinctly Chinese even if it is puerile wish-fulfillment aimed spitefully at the corrupt nepotistic upper class oligarchies. In a sense one can argue the cynicism is healthier than other wish fulfillment genres.

 

[Alectai]

I think Grand Knights still lose out. Rank 1 Magi have their innate defensive spell after all, those block a minimum of 15 to 20 pts of damage or so. Grand Knights can only put out 8 to 10 pts of damage, maybe more if they charge up a super noticeable attack.

Leylin's Branded Knights were able to hold out against rank 1 magi but the power expenditure was slowly killing them. Even going all out and self destructing, they could barely hurt a rank 2 Magus.

I plan to make the Knight arts more viable thanks to your Gamer power but even then it will act as a way to supplement your Magus abilities rather than a form of power to match a Magus.

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Yeah.

If you want to be good at close combat, you need to become a Warlock and accept the fact that your growth is shackled by whoever your progenitor is, even if it's otherwise superior to a vanilla Magus in literally every respect. (Especially for this PC who has the Gamer's Mind to nullify the emotional impact)

 

[Kshail]

From the way the source material went...well getting everything we need to line up just right makes it near impossible to break the bloodline shackles.