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Log Horizon Discussion Thread

The Nyanta parts were great. Nyanta acted like a human being, fought like a badass, delivered some insight thoughts... and didn't actually win the fight because it was TOHYA that saved the day by unwittingly convincing Nureha to call the whole thing off.

I'm annoyed that they waited until now to reveal that Tohya really DID get to tell Nureha what she needed to hear. They didn't need to put that off, not even to be dramatic.

I like how they showed us the contrast between Kazuhiko before and after Minami -- he sometimes smiled, and though he still frowned often, he didn't have the ugly wrinkles he's developed from scowling constantly.


Isuzu's moment wasn't strong enough. All of the build up for it was in the previous episode, and this episode had to build up its own tension for her again, which didn't give it the kind of impact that the previous build-up would have provided. This also left the episode without any time to explain what mechanical EFFECT her new song might have had, so all we see is some pretty glowing effect (which apparently doesn't have the range to cover the entire town, since Roe 2 and Minori were unaffected).

The Odyssey Knights were glowing, too, but it didn't seem to affect them any other way. The song didn't seem to inspire any change in their behavior. The ONLY hint we get that it inspired anyone was one scene showing two Lander kids listening while glowing from the song's magical effect, but we already knew that Landers are blown away by songs they've never heard before.


Am I mistaken, or did Roe 2 summon one of the NINE ALV PRINCESSES who committed the First World Fraction?! Also, DO THAT SOONER, YOU TOWN-FORSAKING BITCH! And yet HER moment was possibly better executed than Isuzu's!
 
Crazael said:
The thing is, though, the battle itself isn't important. What's important is why everyone is doing what they're doing. The battle is just there to act as a catalyst. The important things are Isuzu's renewed determination and Nyanta learning more about Plant Hwadyn and that his friend isn't wholly his friend anymore.
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I was being a bit dramatic over that fight. I did get that Nyanta didn't want to kill the lander and you are right about the exposition it does help define the characters. perhaps his build lacks the ability to disarm an opponent.

Sunder the Gold said:
Am I mistaken, or did Roe 2 summon one of the NINE ALV PRINCESSES who committed the First World Fraction?! Also, DO THAT SOONER, YOU TOWN-FORSAKING BITCH!
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seriously, had that been used an episode and a half ago the town would have been left standing. and then after we would have had all the time you could want to hear new songs and get existential about what it means to be given permission to be alive.
 
Sunder the Gold said:
Isuzu's moment wasn't strong enough. All of the build up for it was in the previous episode, and this episode had to build up its own tension for her again, which didn't give it the kind of impact that the previous build-up would have provided. This also left the episode without any time to explain what mechanical EFFECT her new song might have had, so all we see is some pretty glowing effect (which apparently doesn't have the range to cover the entire town, since Roe 2 and Minori were unaffected).
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Reading this, I had to note that the most ironic thing about Isuzu's song in the LNs was that mechanically it had no effect at all; but the largest effect it had was that
the Landers started to sing it as their own. Effectively, the World itself accepted Isuzu's song as the newest real song in that World. It was literally the forty-third song to be born into the Server, at least in the terms of the narrative in Log Horizon.

That said, I'd say I sort of agree with this comment, they could have done better... but I'm starting to feel that the Anime is suffering from something restrictive from the side of NHK. I'm suspecting that parts of Log Horizon doesn't fit the internal code of NHK that well; it made rather recent news in Japan that a musician was harshly criticized for playing a song that didn't fit 'present society' during a major annual NHK Music Show... where all he did was sing a song about Peace and War, if a little barbed towards the present government perhaps.

In a way, this Episode was sort of hypocritical, as technically Isuzu is doing the exact same thing as said Musician; singing a song that says "F**k You World!" in her small way, at least in the Web LNs. I'm guessing NHK had DEEN downplay it as hard as possible, and DEEN had leeway as Isuzu's moment was in the background in the Web LNs, just not in this way. I'm guessing Mamare's being a little pissed off right now.

Sunder the Gold said:
The Nyanta parts were great. Nyanta acted like a human being, fought like a badass, delivered some insight thoughts... and didn't actually win the fight because it was TOHYA that saved the day by unwittingly convincing Nureha to call the whole thing off.
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Huh, the Anime really played down how much Kazuhiko had become overpowered in terms of the system, with the implied price of becoming a Killer. In the LN, Kazuhiko cracked not just the train but a decent part of the ground with his strike, and that line about not killing Landers wasn't an internal comment; it was spoken to Nyanta in the LNs and directly into his face at that. It was implied that Shiroe's comment to Nyanta about Kazuhiko "policing" things was a mild version of what Kazuhiko was really doing in <Plant hwayden>; His Class had become his literal Job, in a sense, and he didn't want Nyanta to face what Kazuhiko himself faced. Nice playing around that tidbit, DEEN.

Sunder the Gold said:
Am I mistaken, or did Roe 2 summon one of the NINE ALV PRINCESSES who committed the First World Fraction?! Also, DO THAT SOONER, YOU TOWN-FORSAKING BITCH! And yet HER moment was possibly better executed than Isuzu's!
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Well, it was implied that she did in the Web LNs, so probably, yeah.

Do note that Roe2 isn't even remotely human, despite appearances; it took Minori's 'philosophical debate' for her to even consider helping in the fight, in the first place. They could have conveyed that better in the Anime, but still.
Also, as I commented above, I suspect that DEEN was forced to downplay Isuzu's awesomeness in the face of recent events; so they probably had to find something else to beef up instead.
 
Razor One said:
As Keroko explained, there's a bridge in Alterac Valley that the Horde must cross in order to take the Alliance base there. It's around 60 yards long with no cover for attacking forces. Once you're across, you need to make your way between two Alliance towers which provide cover to the alliance and rain death down upon the horde, you have to make your way through most of the bases civilian NPC's, all of which have ludicrously high HP and hit fairly hard unless you're rocking plate. It didn't help that back in the day, killing them would give you Dishonourable Kills, which could utterly sabotage your PvP career for weeks or months. The end of this gauntlet has the Alliance graveyard which must be capped to take the base, and a bunker in which the Alliance general and his lieutenants reside.

One of the major problems that the Horde faces is that they'll gather at the foot of the bridge and just... stand there. They'll get in range, of the enemy, throw a few DoT's or take potshots, and then run back, hoping to somehow whittle the enemy down. There's a psychological and mental block against charging across and breaking their defense, even a weak one. So they'll sit there at the foot of the bridge taking potshots at the Alliance while they charge in and crush the Horde general. Anyone that charges across can have one of two effects. They'll either get completely slaughtered while everyone else hangs back, or they'll trigger the charge that breaks the enemy defense. It doesn't help that the choke point is incredibly difficult to break given all of the above. If the Alliance defend in force, AV can indeed last for weeks... at least it could before they nerfed it.

What I often found myself doing in AV's was playing the role of taskmaster. It usually involved capslock yelling at people to do things and to do them right. When people listened and did well, I'd throw out congrats (NORFAX YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD! AWESOME WORK ON ICEWING BUNKER!), and when things went badly... reformulate and issue new orders (GROUP SIX FALL BACK AND ASSIST GROUP 5, THE ALLIANCE DECIDED TO TAKE OFF THE TRAINING WHEELS). I never found any point in calling people failures or fuck ups, it more or less begs people to bicker and recriminate and that's the easiest way to destroy a team. I don't do it anymore as it's about as stress free as herding cats, but the most recent time was in Old Hillsbrad PvP for WoW's 10th anniversary. Started with a team of 40 people, started losing, people bailed and said we sucked, we were down to nine hangers on including myself. Started yelling and whipping people into shape, got them to engage in guerilla tactics. We started closing the gap, and then pushed ahead. BG filled out again, people were amazed we were actually winning, hung on, listened up, and melted faces. People kept asking how it was possible for Horde to not suck and someone stated "The original nine people who didn't quit when they were losing are why we're winning now". By the end of it, we were camping the Alliance in their own graveyard and utterly destroying 40 v 40 like they were us when it was 40 v 9 at our lowest ebb. Felt good, reminded me of Ye Olde World PvP before the honour system was implemented where it was 400 Alliance vs 100 Horde with plenty of back and forth, wiping out each others towns before we drove them into the sea. Good times... good times.

Back on topic, my white whale was getting people to muster the proper courage to charge across that accursed bridge in sufficient numbers to break the Alliance defense. It didn't help that you'd always get a few people who'd sit afk in the cave leeching honour (a problem to this day, even with reports and kicks) or people sitting near Frostwolf fishing in a nearby lake (fixed by removing the fish), or that the terrain features of the Alliance side of the battleground naturally funnel the Horde into excellent chokepoints, whereas the Horde side cause the Alliance to spread out once they've broken through Iceblood. It also didn't help that the Alliance had multiple attack vectors and excellent cover while attacking the Horde base, making it difficult to defend to the same degree. I'm going to stop there because much ado has been made about the balance of AV and down that path madness lies.

In short, I feel that most horde PvP players have a distinct problem when it comes to crossing bridges. They're too scared to cross because they'll get immediately slaughtered by the enemy defense and get kicked back to the graveyard queue. My favoured tactic to break them out of simply sitting at the bridge taking potshots was to constantly charge the enemy and cause as much chaos as possible to entice others into crossing as well and breaking the defenders. It works about half the time, the rest it's merely suicidal bravery. Fitting, considering most of my PvP in Vanilla AV was done on my Orc Warrior.

This is by no means an old problem either. I've witnessed the same thing happening when assaulting the Alliance base in Ashran in the latest expansion.
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Personally speaking, I was never happier than on Horde defense. Yes, the alliance could muscle their way into the Frostwolf camp due to it lacking a sufficient choke point.

But then, simply by hiding inside the base with the Horde commanders and sneaking out to shoot the alliance then running back inside before they could catch me (Feign Death helped), I could drag half the raid into a fight with the ultimate badass NPC on our side before they'd accrued the necessary weight of players to handle him.

I could stretch out games by half an hour or more by myself or with a few allies doing the same thing, because the alliance were unable to resist the siren call of killing my annoying green ass.
 
Guile said:
Personally speaking, I was never happier than on Horde defense. Yes, the alliance could muscle their way into the Frostwolf camp due to it lacking a sufficient choke point.

But then, simply by hiding inside the base with the Horde commanders and sneaking out to shoot the alliance then running back inside before they could catch me (Feign Death helped), I could drag half the raid into a fight with the ultimate badass NPC on our side before they'd accrued the necessary weight of players to handle him.

I could stretch out games by half an hour or more by myself or with a few allies doing the same thing, because the alliance were unable to resist the siren call of killing my annoying green ass.
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See, I play melee characters mostly, with the odd stint as a healer, so D'ing up the horde base is a bit more painful. The only equivalent defensive location for the Horde in AV is Galvangar / Iceblood. A dedicated Horde defense there shuts the Alliance down cold. Horde used to be so good at locking down Galv / Iceblood that the Alliance called it "Scorched Earth" tactics, since it positively killed their HPH. Was a lot more fun than the race to the general strat that seems to reign supreme nowadays.
 
Folly Industries said:
And I found the next one to be not much better. The battle takes a back seat to just about everything, Roe 2 could have saved everyone but wanted to be fashionably late, our Nyanta has trouble with a lvl.63 (Perhaps it's because he's getting a little more pudgy around the cheeks? Danger of a chef I guess), and the 43rd kinda underwhelmed me. The song wasn't bad but I wont be putting it on my iPod.

That being said Nyanta's fight was pretty solid though. But has the target for crit thing been shown before? How would such a mechanic have worked
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Nyanta ia built to kill adventurers 1v1 with a ton of damage over time, crit boosters and debuff effects. The crit marker is a swashbuckler class ability.

The game before the apocalypse had no nonlethal takedown options so if he was willing to kill it'd be over in a flash.
 
veekie said:
Nyanta ia built to kill adventurers 1v1 with a ton of damage over time, crit boosters and debuff effects. The crit marker is a swashbuckler class ability.

The game before the apocalypse had no nonlethal takedown options so if he was willing to kill it'd be over in a flash.
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His fight against Demikas was so hard because of Demikas's Monk Class HP (highest in the game) and all of the healers keeping him topped. Including Serara, because of Shiroe's ruse.

Otherwise, Demikas's HP should have been blowing away under the onslaught of a veteran DPS master.
 
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Hopefully now that's over we can get back to the important stuff, like what Indicus/Inctis/Intex/Internet Explorer 9 is up to. Also finding Krusty.
 
Anyone else taking note that the adventurers are now starting to bleed? I don't remember this being the case in the first season.

Small details... small details... :)

And god dammit this series is still on-going!? I was planning on marathoning the whole thing...

Life now empty...
 
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Kokurokoki said:
Anyone else taking note that the adventurers are now starting to bleed? I don't remember this being the case in the first season.

Small details... small details... :)
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The whole not bleeding thing is an addition of the anime, if I'm not mistaken. The light novels had everything be like real life except for the game mechanics, and that included injuries and bleeding, but because NHK is an all ages channel they changed it to them vanishing in a puff of bubbles instead.
 
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Kokurokoki said:
Anyone else taking note that the adventurers are now starting to bleed? I don't remember this being the case in the first season.

Small details... small details... :)

And god dammit this series is still on-going!? I was planning on marathoning the whole thing...

Life now empty...
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Cannongerbil said:
The whole not bleeding thing is an addition of the anime, if I'm not mistaken. The light novels had everything be like real life except for the game mechanics, and that included injuries and bleeding, but because NHK is an all ages channel they changed it to them vanishing in a puff of bubbles instead.
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Actually, around episode 5 or 6 in the first season there's a scene where Minori is still in that extortion guild where she pricks her finger with a needle and bleeds a bit.
 
This time on Log Horizon!
People Collide!
A Wedding!
BUT HE'S already Engaged to another!
Resentful Landers!
Songs!
Children!
Letters!

I liked this episode more than the last the pacing felt better for what was going on. I miss Roe2 as a character already but suspect she will return when the timing is right. Or perhaps to be a Villain of the land. Or perhaps to die to show how serious this situation is. (Does she have adventure immortality?

The Switch to Akih was done well with the before and after showing something wrong with the two girls. I did think Naotsugu was going to get pickpocketed though.

Something tells me this will either end with either narrowly avoiding a war or open next season with scrambling to avoid a war.
Wish we had seen more of Issac. Sounds like it could have been a good side story.

So Genius of Marrage isn't picky about who he chooses, That's their lander maid. Kinda explains their response a bit better. Bit of a Momma bear thing going on.
Wonder how Tetra would react to a Possessed Proposal? He didn't use his power on Soujirou so no telling if it would work or not. Wonder if it has an upper limit to the number of people it can effect
His face when hit is pretty great too.

I kinda didn't realize that scrub Horizon was done with their quest, though It makes sense, seeing as the wyverns came to them. Backs are patted, Mental fortitude restored, and knowing you are weak is a good first step to becoming strong. To be an adventurer is not to be a hero. Just because they have power doesn't make them responsible. lander casualties were low at least.

The after credit sneak gives a decent Idea what to expect from the next episode at least. Might be the season end-cap conflict. Depends on how long it takes to defeat him. Might be one of a few genii (geniuses?) popping up at once. Either way I want to see inside that letter!
 
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Rudy is awesome. He is now best dog, best face, and best big brother.

Though I love how Tohya instantly took the piss out of him, "Oh, like I'd go to YOU for romantic advice." And then they're laughing together and I'm laughing with them because I'm loving their brotherhood.

I guess Tohya used to bite his own nails; Rudy was able to guess that and obliquely ask about it without Tohya realizing what he was admitting.

Incidentally, Tohya does call Rudy "big brother", but he also calls Serara big sister for some reason. He sees her as that dependable? (More so than his own sister, or is it that Tohya refuses to call Minori "nee" out of sibling rivalry?)


Nureha doesn't respect or like that Lander who's so concerned about her. Just walks right around him without saying a word, like he was a stump in the ground.


Core Horizon is struggling to get by without Nyanta's cooking. I like that Naotsugu at least TRIED to cook, what with the loosing restrictions on reality. I'm sure Mary-nee would dig the sight of him in an apron.

The knee-kick joke was better executed this time, which doesn't make it less old, but at least keeps it from being annoying.

Naotsugu demonstrates that he's consider, alert, and smart.

Tetra correctly deduces that Naotsugu is shier than he tries to appear. Of course, we ARE talking about a hard-core MMORPGer. Given his appreciation of women and his shining personality, it makes sense that he would be so shy underneath that he's never really felt comfortable flirting with women.


Speaking of which, that Rudy-look-a-like gives me the creeps. What did that guy do to change those girls' minds?


Oh, Shiroe gets to have a childish outburst in the security of his office. Nice. It helps to remember that he's not merely Black Heart Glasses, he's also the young college student forced to bear the weight of the world on his shoulders.


It doesn't seem fair for Isaac to criticize the Landers when he's an Adventurer.

I'm reminded of Halkengenia Online, and how someone omake'd a fairy drill instructor as screaming at the fairy recruits for laughing at the human cadets hauling sacks of sand. "YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO GET IT EASIER JUST BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT SUPERHUMAN BODIES NOW?! YOU WORTHLESS GAMING NERDS, YOU GET TO CARRY LOGS! I'M GOING TO WORK YOU THREE TIMES AS HARD AS THOSE GUYS!"


Oh, looks like Lenessia's little brother has latched onto Isaac. What a delicious reverse-parallel to Krusty and Lenessia. There's just something about Guardian Class guild-leaders and royalty, huh?


That creepy playboy is back, and is clearly up to villainy this time!

Oh shit, he's a Genius monster in disguise! A party-level challenge! The disappearance of the safe zone has borne wicked fruit at last!

You know, for a "genius", he's pretty stupid. Revealing his true nature right in front of his victim's party members, as if he doesn't realize that will get him killed.

Wow, yeah, this thing is CLEARLY on a one-track mind. Also, that was hilarious.


Oh, THAT's what Rudy was trying to prevent. As a Lander himself, he knew that the Landers would start complaining about the Adventurers, especially after the Odyssey Knights revealed their true colors.


Isuzu's song! Since it wasn't supposed to have actual combat power after all, THIS is the appropriate climax.

Though it probably would have been better for her to sing the song before or after the battle, if it really contributed nothing to the fight itself. She's a Bard, so she needs to be buffing her allies with something that "works".


Minori tackle-hugs Akatsuki and the shinobi is like "Wut?" Minori, I applaud not letting jealous ruin your opinion of your romantic rival, but I wish the author would clarify what exactly is going on in your head, if only for confirmation.
 
That romantic Genius monster was hilarious! Particularly when he tried to woo Souji :D
Do you think he thought Souji was a girl, due to his ponytail and clothing style? What did the Genius want out of wooing those girls, I wonder...
 
Folly Industries said:
So Genius of Marrage isn't picky about who he chooses, That's their lander maid. Kinda explains their response a bit better. Bit of a Momma bear thing going on.
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They were willing to fight the city guards to protect the maid back before the Round Table.

Sunder the Gold said:
Incidentally, Tohya does call Rudy "big brother", but he also calls Serara big sister for some reason. He sees her as that dependable? (More so than his own sister, or is it that Tohya refuses to call Minori "nee" out of sibling rivalry?)
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The tiers here is that Rudy is of uncertain age relative to Tohya, but dependable like a big brother(also goofs up like elder siblings trying way too hard to look cool). Serara is in fact older than him, so she gets the -nee treatment, they're reasonably close and she's older.

Minori is a special case, she's his twin, and thus, so close that they don't need honorifics, any more than you'd need honorifics for yourself. Calling someone by name without a honorific is either incredibly rude or incredibly close, depending on the context, it's most commonly seen for parent/grandparent/aunt/uncle to child(but not the reverse), and spouses(where it's two way), but not siblings unless they're very close or one sibling is blatantly not worthy of respect.

Though it probably would have been better for her to sing the song before or after the battle, if it really contributed nothing to the fight itself. She's a Bard, so she needs to be buffing her allies with something that "works".
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It got through to the Knights, somewhat.

Minori tackle-hugs Akatsuki and the shinobi is like "Wut?" Minori, I applaud not letting jealous ruin your opinion of your romantic rival, but I wish the author would clarify what exactly is going on in your head, if only for confirmation.
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Akatsuki is probably the closest thing Minori has to a peer. Akatsuki being childish for her age and Minori being mature for her age puts them in about the same mental age bracket(compared to Serara who's a bit of an airhead, while the guys are guys)
 
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