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Living with dragons

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Norgarth said:
You're missing my point. Those last three I linked to? as I said , they are from the same Magic set (Dominaria), which means that all 3 types of Saprolings are running around at the same time.

That means that you could have a herd of 30 Saprolings and have 3 (or more) distinct body forms represented in that herd. I'm just pointing out that a small plant 'creature' that doesn't look like the one they met earlier, can still be a Saproling.
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Not sufficient - arguably, irrelevant - to my original point that you snipped a piece of, unfortunately. The setting isn't one where the described Saprolings are Koroks, or with any other sort of plant creatures that specifically don't look like what was described. The fact that the Saprolings might have other appearances as well does not change that; a world in which the described plant creatures don't exist isn't going to be the world we're in.

Unless the tree is actually a Planeswalker.

(It's also possible we're in a different part of the world from a setting we know, a part of the world where the local Saprolings look like this. But in that case they still aren't the plant creatures that don't look like them.)
 
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    • Not enough mana.

    To be expected really, I had not exactly been focusing on bonding more lands. How the fuck would I ever have the time? Besides, most of my stuff didn't need that much mana at once.

    Sighing, I looked up at it.

    Damn it, that would have been useful. Unlimited amounts of disposable troops would have been useful in the war.

    Oh well, not really my thing anyway I supposed. Maybe if I could make self-replicating golems…

    I paused at that thought and then facepalmed.

    Nope. Nope nope.

    That way laid replicators. Let's not, wouldn't be worth it. Oh well…

    "Welcome, mighty mage."

    Mine is a manly scream, not a girly squeak!

    Getting my heart back under control, I turned to look at the elf behind me. He was a bit shorter than me and had short blonde hair, wearing a simple loincloth, a wooden staff resting against his shoulder.

    "H-hello?" I said as I stared at him for a moment, "Where…"

    He smiled and looked up, "The village. I am Nad."

    "…Atreus," I told him, "I'm Atreus. You live in the tree?"

    He nodded, "We do, the entire village, Lord Mage. May I ask… what are you?"

    "Uhm…"

    "You don't look like us. Your ears are small, and round and your eyes are small."

    "…Human. I look human."

    Nad looked thoughtful and slowly nodded, "Never seen your kind before. But you are clearly a powerful mage, only a powerful mage can take the form of a beast. Yet alone a powerful one."

    Rengosa went in for landing next to us and he looked over at them, "As is your companion?"

    "Ah… yes. Uhm… Sheila and Ren," I said, "Ren is also capable of taking the form of a Dragon. Sheila is more uhm… fire?"

    Nad bowed slightly, "Lady Mages. Please, let me invite you into our village. We will be having a celebration, a large feast for the Tree God's defeat of the Dread Baloth."

    "Thank you," Sheila said with a smile as she slid out of the saddle and onto the ground, "We gratefully accept."

    Nad smiled and spoke back up, "Please, follow me," before he turned into a large black bird and took to the air.

    Sheila quickly climbed back into Rengosas saddle while I turned back and followed him into the air, circling upwards around the truck of the massive tree.

    What we saw when we rose up among the branches was surprising. I had expected a village, like the elves in the trees that saved my life. But what we found was nothing like it.

    It was a full sprawling city in the leaves, tall towers and buildings built into the crown of the city, walkways and paths between them.

    Glowing magical lights inside the buildings lit them up in the slight dusk of the leaves.

    Woah.

    This was a lot more than I thought would be here. That's pretty amazing to see something like this, an entire city on top of a massive tree.

    What is it about elves and trees?

    Even on Azeroth the night elves lived in a massive tree. Of course, if things like that Baloth thing lived in the forest below, I would have wanted to live in the tree that ate them as well.

    The large bird lead the way towards a large platform by one of the tallest buildings. I glanced at Sheila and Ren before we went in for landing on the wooden platform.

    Pulling up, I beat my wings hard and allowed my armour to retract into it's low profile form. A group of thirty elves wearing what looked like bronze armour with spears and shields were standing at attention in formation by the gate leading into the large tower.

    The elf turned back from his bird form and turned to us, "The Empress is expecting you," he said and leaned against his staff, "She wished to thank you personally in your assistance in defending the city."

    "Well, let's not keep her waiting then," I agreed and turned into mortal form, "But no thanks are necessary. In all honesty, we didn't know the city was here. We were simply investigating the large tree while exploring the area."

    Nad smiled, "A lucky thing then. If you had not delayed the Dread beast long enough for the tree, then our forces would have had to. Many would have died."

    Sheila walked up next to me, "We graciously accept her invitation," she told him, "But we won't be staying long, we need to move on."

    "Of course. Please, follow me."

    With that, Nad lead the way into the building. The guards move to the side and the butts of their spears hit the wooden floor with a solid thunk.

    Sheila lead the way following him, leaving me and Ren to follow along behind her.

    I glanced at the guards as we walked past them.

    Yep, this is a massive, massive trap, isn't it?





    AN// Many thanks to Avalon Aurora for betaing this sections.
     
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    • So looks like it is pure MtG, with the baeloth. (Though I wonder if Hiver was trying to misdirect a bit longer by implying Hylians with the pointy ears and big eyes :D)
    Hiver said:
    Yep, this is a massive, massive trap, isn't it?
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    Hmm, I'm not really getting trap vibes. But that could just mean it's a good trap ;)

    Hiver said:
    What is it about elves and trees?
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    Well there's always elves and race cars to even it out. (I have no idea if these are good, it's been forever since I read something that sounds familiar)
     
    And then it turns out its not a trap.
    its another plansewalker who wants to thank them for helping out, and ask about a trade of resources and spells.

    ..also, does that mean that if he had more land and mana later he can summon it, or he needed more mana to get the imprint?
     
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    • As we approached the throneroom, it started to look not like a trap. Which was nice.

    It didn't take long before Nad lead us into what had to be the throneroom. But throneroom or not, it looked more like a glade than anything else. Trees lined the walls, branches forming the ceiling, arching over the chamber and the floor covered with grass, a slight path leading up to a throne made of… you guessed it, wood.

    It was like a tree had been carefully grown into the shape of a throne.

    In the throne, was an elf.

    She was wearing a set of white robes and her hair was long and dark, matching the tattoo on the sides of her face. An arching image running down from her temples to her cheeks and down her neck, disappearing into her robes.

    Each side of the throne was flanked by a pair of very large wolves. Seriously, they rivalled a small Drake in size.

    Nad lead the way across the throneroom before he bowed, "Empress. The travellers that helped defend the Tree."

    She nodded, "Thank you, Nad," before she looked over to us and got up, stroking the ears of the closest wolf before she smiled, "Welcome to Suranak City, travellers. You have travelled a long way to get here. I am Sakila, I'm the ruler of these lands."

    Sheila bowed, and we followed her lead as she introduced us, "It is a honour to meet you, Empress."

    Sakila smiled, "I understand you helped defeat the Dread Baloth. Not a simple feat, they are powerful beings. Strong and fast, among the most dangerous predators on this Plane."

    Plane?

    I blinked at her at that.

    She walked around Sheila to look at me, "I take it you are the one. The other Planeswalker."

    I stared at her for a moment, "You're a Planeswalker."

    "I am," she agreed with a nod, "Welcome to Suranak. Please, stay as long as you need as my guests."

    "Thank you, we very much appreciate that," I accepted before I asked, "How did you knew we weren't from here?"

    She smirked at me, "There are no humans on Suranak."

    "Oh."

    Well, that 'would' be a bit of a tip of, wouldn't it?

    "Nad," she said and turned to the wizard, "Please take our guests to their rooms. I'm sure they wish to rest after the battle," she said before she turned to us, "Please, I hope you will join me for a meal later."

    I bowed slightly, "We'd be honoured, your highness."

    With that, she turned around and left, leaving us with her wizard. Nad smiled and motioned towards the door we entered through, "Please, honoured guests. If you would follow me?"

    Sheila nodded and we followed him through the castle. As we reached what had to be the guest wing, he paused and turned to us,

    "How… uhm, many rooms would you require?"

    Sheila smiled at him, "One would be more than sufficient, thank you."

    He nodded and lead us to a pair of doors, "A messenger will be sent when the meal is ready, my Lord, my Ladies."

    With that, he left us alone.

    The room was pretty large and nicely furnished including a large bed. The windows were open to the air. Walking over, I looked out across the city spread across the massive branches of the tree. Straight down next to the castle was a large arena.

    Hmh.

    "Atreus?" Ren said and motioned towards my satchel.

    I quickly nodded and dug out a small bronze orb with a blue gem in it. I gave it a small burst of Blue Mana and it lit up before sending out a pulse of magic that coated the walls, floor, ceiling and covered the windows with a barely visible blue shimmer.

    It was the big brother to my sound dampening dice, not only stopping sound from both ways at the barrier, but also blocked all known types of scrying.

    "There. Should block any spying," I said and put it on the table, "Hopefully."

    Sheila nodded and jumped up to sit on the table next to it, "She's a Planeswalker."

    "She is," I agreed, "But that don't mean she's dangerous. We know plenty of Planeswalkers that's anywhere from one of our best friends to slightly dickish."

    Sheila rolled her eyes, "Of course it means she is dangerous! Every single Planeswalker in existence is outright deadly. That include you and Alexis! The question is if she is hostile."

    I suppose she was right about that, "She don't seem hostile."

    Sighing, Sheila shook her head, "Not yet, no. But we should still be very careful here. They seem to think you two can turn into dragons, not the other way around. Let's keep it like that."




    AN// Unbetaed for now due to time constraints.
     
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    • 55
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    • Dinner had been pretty much what I had expected from this kind of civilization, if even a bit more… rough than most elves we have run into so far.

    In fact, it more reminded me of a medieval feast. There was even a whole roast pig like creature being slowly turned above the flames in the middle of the large room.

    But that was over already and it had tasted just as nicely as it had smelled.

    It had lasted well into the night.

    Now the sun had risen again, and we were following the Empress up the steps towards the main balcony of the arena outside of the castle.

    I suppose it's possible that we would see the local equivalent of some kind of ball game, but somehow I didn't get that vibe from the atmosphere of the place.

    Sakila walked up the last step and spread her arms, "Welcome to the Arena of the Wild. Where the contestants prove their worth to the rest of the pack."

    The inside of the arena had changed from what I seen from the tower. What used to be a flat piece of dirt, now had trees growing in or. Large rocks and bushes blocked line of sight anyone in it.

    Around it all were a high wall and beyond that was seats. Most who were filled with elves.

    "Prove their worth?" I asked and put my hands against the railing to look down into the arena. Sheila and Ren moved to stand opposite to me from the Empress.

    Sakila nodded, "I am the Empress of the Suranak not because I was born into it. But because what I can do, because how strong and capable I am."

    "You're a meritocracy," Sheila observed, "The larger your accomplishments, the more power you have."

    Sakila smiled, "Just so."

    Made sense. Dragon society was similar, it was a very reasonable way of doing things in my opinion. At least as long as it wasn't corrupted into might makes right.

    Not that that would ever happen with the Flightleaders in charge.

    I nodded and leaned against the railing, "So, what is this contest?" I asked as a group of young elves entered the arena.

    "Once every moon, the people that has come of age since the last one enters the arena to show their worth. To gain their first real victory and take their place in our society."

    "I see."

    An elf with a wolf skin cloak walked up to a platform by one end of the arena. He was clearly saying something, but it didn't carry to where we were.

    Then he raised his hands and sent out a burst of green light.

    That's where everything went to hell down in the arena.

    One of the elves moved fast, roots bursting from the floor of the arena, forming a bow and arrow. He let lose a arrow, hitting one of the others in the side of the head before being mauled in turn by a pair of summoned wolves.

    Holy shit, it wasn't a contest.

    It's was a gladiator fight to the death.

    So much for these being nice people. I glanced at Sakila. She was smiling down at the sight of the young elves slaughtering each other.

    "So… winner is the one that survive?" I finally asked.

    We so need to get out of here.

    "It is," she agreed, "Usually about a third make it through it, having proven their abilities sufficiently to become a full adult."

    "And the rest?"

    "Have been culled from the herd, making the rest stronger. Since I became Empress, we have already made great progress in getting rid of the ones without magic. They barely ever make it through the test."

    I wonder how much better this place would be if I stabbed her in the eye.

    I slowly nodded, "Is there other cities like this?"

    Sakila nodded, "Several dozen across the Plane as well as a large number of smaller villages and tribes through the forest. Most have submitted to pay us tribute already, the rest will soon enough."

    Below the fight seemed to have come to a halt. The elf directing a pair of large summoned direwolves seem to be in the big winner, but there were three others still alive. One of them had animated one of the trees to attack anything that got close to him.

    Another had a pair a trio of reanimated elves controlled by what seemed like roots through their bodies fighting for him.

    The last one was simply looking bored, standing to the side of the arena with a sword of wood with a dark hungry looking aura around it.

    "Well, I suppose that's it for this moon then," Sakila said and stood up again, "I hope you will join me for tonight's celebration feast. The winners will all be there and be honoured for their accomplishments."

    I nodded, "Of course."

    Not a chance in fucking hell.





    AN// Unbetaed.
     
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    • guess she's been focusing a bit too much on Green?
    ...wonder if its fixable?
    ...imagine her reaction if she was fixed and managed to comprehend everything?
     
    Well of of the mana types have explicit downsides and upsides, we now see one downside of green mana "survival of the fittest". I remember one stories where the greens we're portrayed as savage anarchists that would cause war at all times to keep the wildness of nature or something....

    Though considering he has been balancing his mana, mostly because of multi mana type legendary lands, he should be a little more sane then this nutcase...
     
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    Krazyfan1 said:
    guess she's been focusing a bit too much on Green?
    ...wonder if its fixable?
    ...imagine her reaction if she was fixed and managed to comprehend everything?
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    In canon MTG using mana doesn't change your personality. Rather, the mana you find easiest to use is what matches what your personality was already like.
    Anthium said:
    Well that's an interesting twist. Now to find out if Atregos flees before or after tearing down the government.
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    Even if he did, would it help at all? Generally, the actions of the government are simply reflections of cultural attitudes rather than something imposed on the people from outside. That equation is skewed a bit when the leader outmatches the population as much as a Planeswalker does, but what little we've seen of the civilization the people don't seem to think they're being oppressed. If he did tear down the government (not an easy prospect when the leader is a Planeswalker) who's to say that the people wouldn't build it back just as bad?
     
    WarGamesHyp said:
    Well of of the mana types have explicit downsides and upsides, we now see one downside of green mana "survival of the fittest". I remember one stories where the greens we're portrayed as savage anarchists that would cause war at all times to keep the wildness of nature or something....

    Though considering he has been balancing his mana, mostly because of multi mana type legendary lands, he should be a little more sane then this nutcase...
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    Ah, but this isn't survival of the fittest, is it?
    She's forcing them to fight to the death, face-to-face, in an arena deathmatch. Stealth is fitness. Diplomacy is fitness. Clever use of the environment is fitness.

    But the only thing she permits to survive is - might.
     
    aetherialDawn said:
    Ah, but this isn't survival of the fittest, is it?
    She's forcing them to fight to the death, face-to-face, in an arena deathmatch. Stealth is fitness. Diplomacy is fitness. Clever use of the environment is fitness.

    But the only thing she permits to survive is - might.
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    Wait you've lost me, how are arena death matches not survival of the fittest (do you not understand phrases?)

    here is from the wiki of the phrase
    From Wikipedia said:
    "Survival of the fittest" is a phrase that originated from Darwinian evolutionary theory as a way of describing the mechanism of natural selection. The biological concept of fitness is defined as reproductive success. In Darwinian terms the phrase is best understood as "Survival of the form that will leave the most copies of itself in successive generations."
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    Tell me how killing people and only the ones that have the most desirable traits surviving, not survival of the fittest, those surviving elves will live to reproduces so they have reproductive success and are in turn the fittest to survive....
     
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    WarGamesHyp said:
    Wait you've lost me, how are arena death matches not survival of the fittest (do you not understand phrases?)

    here is from the wiki of the phrase

    Tell me how killing people and only the ones that have the most desirable traits, not survival of the fittest, those surviving elves will live to reproduces so they have reproductive success and are in turn the fittest to survive....
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    He means that the deathmatch process going on here is producing only physically and magically able survivors. Anyone who isn't a combat-focused individual would be killed. Artisans, non-magical scholars, artificers, etc... Anyone who isn't spending most of their time learning how to Stab/Fireball To The Face is going to be killed.

    Yes, the winners are able to survive... but the culture itself will be stagnating without those now-dead individuals.
     
    Dakkan Sall said:
    He means that the deathmatch process going on here is producing only physically and magically able survivors. Anyone who isn't a combat-focused individual would be killed. Artisans, non-magical scholars, artificers, etc... Anyone who isn't spending most of their time learning how to Stab/Fireball To The Face is going to be killed.

    Yes, the winners are able to survive... but the culture itself will be stagnating without those now-dead individuals.
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    Survival of the fittest comes back to the idea of natural selection, the being that has the most desirable traits has more kids and is therefore more successful. There are birds on earth that have extremely long tails that more often then not get them killed far before their natural lifespan ends, but by having such long tails they have more mates and kids, so over time survive of the fittest means more birds will have longer tails because those birds have more kids....

    The thing is they are led by a planeswalker if their leader wanted them to rapidly innovate she could go get inventions from an infinite number of planes. Instead she is giving into the green impulse of survival of the fittest to create a stronger species. This is the green method of eugenics...

    Furthermore if they are not strong they die did you not remember that giant creature that was just killed that the elves commented that they would have had to go out and distract, which would have killed off some of them...

    They have a green way of life they do not need your idea of order(which is white colored) or inventions (more blue), they are a mono green society that is what they are. If they tried to switch to another color they would probably all die on that from what I can tell green mana deathworld...

    THough in the end MTG has been debated to death so im done with this train of logic...
     
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    WarGamesHyp said:
    Survival of the fittest comes back to the idea of natural selection, the being that has the most desirable traits has more kids and is therefore more successful. There are birds on earth that have extremely long tails that more often then not get them killed far before their natural lifespan ends, but by having such long tails they have more mates and kids, so over time survive of the fittest means more birds will have longer tails because those birds have more kids....

    The thing is they are led by a planeswalker if their leader wanted them to rapidly innovate she could go get inventions from an infinite number of planes. Instead she is giving into the green impulse of survival of the fittest to create a stronger species. This is the green method of eugenics...

    Furthermore if they are not strong they die did you not remember that giant creature that was just killed that the elves commented that they would have had to go out and distract, which would have killed off some of them...

    They have a green way of life they do not need your idea of order(which is white colored) or inventions (more blue), they are a mono green society that is what they are. If they tried to switch to another color they would probably all die on that from what I can tell green mana deathworld...

    THough in the end MTG has been debated to death so im done with this train of logic...
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    The problem with that logic is, this is not natural selection. It's very unnatural, and the traits it selects for are not the ones most useful for survival later in life. It selects for physical and magical combat skill, which are good to have, especially when there are giant monsters around, but it selects against teamwork and empathy, which are extremely valuable, especially when there are giant monsters around. Yes, they're being led by a planeswalker who's (probably) pushing them in the direction she prefers, but that... kind of makes it worse. Instead of naturally-selected wolves, she's producing inbred hyperaggressive rottweilers.

    Edit:
    Actually, I'd argue that it's not mono-green, but green/black. It's a society that encourages ruthlessness, sacrifice (especially of others), respect for power above all, and focus on the self, and these are all extremely black traits.
     
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    Vanigo said:
    The problem with that logic is, this is not natural selection. It's very unnatural, and the traits it selects for are not the ones most useful for survival later in life. It selects for physical and magical combat skill, which are good to have, especially when there are giant monsters around, but it selects against teamwork and empathy, which are extremely valuable, especially when there are giant monsters around. Yes, they're being led by a planeswalker who's (probably) pushing them in the direction she prefers, but that... kind of makes it worse. Instead of naturally-selected wolves, she's producing inbred hyperaggressive rottweilers.

    Edit:
    Actually, I'd argue that it's not mono-green, but green/black. It's a society that encourages ruthlessness, sacrifice (especially of others), respect for power above all, and focus on the self, and these are all extremely black traits.
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    You are correct; she's selecting for certain traits and against other traits, ignoring whether those traits ensure that the fittest survive - for any purpose except her own will (and, I suppose, arena deathmatches. Specifically teamless arena deathmatches without cheating, which, let's face it, is actually a pretty small slice of possibility-space.)

    As for Green/Black - it is certainly not; Black is ruthless. Black cheats. Black will use any tool.

    She's producing a society with a minimum of Black by forcing everyone to go through a deathmatch where they aren't able to cheat or prove alternative worth and effectiveness - all of the flexibility that Black brings is being excluded as hard as she can. (If she weren't enforcing the rules from above, then Black would thrive here - desperation breeds cheating, after all.)

    (Now, she personally might be a Green/Black sort of person - after all, one of the tools Black uses is to twist others into slaves who are capable of doing as their owner wants but incapable of acting outside those wants.)
     
    aetherialDawn said:
    You are correct; she's selecting for certain traits and against other traits, ignoring whether those traits ensure that the fittest survive - for any purpose except her own will (and, I suppose, arena deathmatches. Specifically teamless arena deathmatches without cheating, which, let's face it, is actually a pretty small slice of possibility-space.)

    As for Green/Black - it is certainly not; Black is ruthless. Black cheats. Black will use any tool.

    She's producing a society with a minimum of Black by forcing everyone to go through a deathmatch where they aren't able to cheat or prove alternative worth and effectiveness - all of the flexibility that Black brings is being excluded as hard as she can. (If she weren't enforcing the rules from above, then Black would thrive here - desperation breeds cheating, after all.)

    (Now, she personally might be a Green/Black sort of person - after all, one of the tools Black uses is to twist others into slaves who are capable of doing as their owner wants but incapable of acting outside those wants.)
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    I don't think "I would do that if I could get away with it, but I can't so I won't" excludes you from being black, though. Whatever rules she's imposing, she's still instilling a sense that the only way to win is for others to lose, and even if that doesn't come out in in-arena cheating, it's going to come out somewhere. (And it's very unlikely that she can stop all the cheating. If nothing else, sometimes people genuinely do have accidents before the fight in a world this dangerous, and they don't strike me as the types to have a robust detective force.)
     
    Vanigo said:
    No it doesn't. Green is totally cool with the idea of winning by making others lose, but it's also totally cool with, say, herbivores. Green doesn't judge either way. It's black that thinks herbivores are doing it wrong.
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    Black is pretty firmly on the side of "Absolutely nothing is 'doing it wrong'" - Black is totally okay with hiding away in the shadows eating helpless plants if there's no prey around, or the prey is too strong to hunt.

    As you have pointed out - a more flexible Green is perfectly fine with herbivores. This Planeswalker is a sort of Green-colored fanatic, representing many negatives but few positives of her color.
     
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