Yikes. What a final puzzle. And it turns out that Sheltem just didn't want his home colonized unless the conquerers are smart enough?!
Let's Play Might and Magic
- Thread starter clockworkchaos
- Start date
2 is probably peak bizarre for the series, but it never fully goes away.
I don't think the reminder that it's all just a game is at all unintended. You're scored on your progress! (I didn't beat M&M2, but did 3, and sent my score in to New World Computing. Somewhere in the house I have the certificate to prove it.) This is not just how video games were at the time, but how tabletop RPGs were intended to be played. The idea that being reminded it was a game would "take you out of it," or that you could forget in the first place, literally wouldn't have entered the designers minds.
Still, this element lessens as the series goes on, and 3 is probably the sharpest falloff in it. 3 is the first time the game starts trying to treat its world as a world rather than a playpen, for better or worse. The jokes don't go away entirely, but they become rarer, and there's more of an attempt to tell an actual story, if a lightweight one. For my tastes, the balance is probably hit best in 5, but the better the goofy humor works for any given player, the more they'll miss it with each subsequent game.
3 is also the point where the gameplay changes radically for the first time, with enemies appearing on the field and some attacks and spells being able to interact with them at range (and vice versa). While I normally prefer random encounters to see-before-you-fight encounters, in this series I do like the implementation, since with enemies limited to the same tile based movement as your party, they often present something like a puzzle if you try to venture past the area you can safely explore. This approach lasts through 3, 4, and 5, then gets ditched for a real-time, free-movement system in 6 and on that is, ah, somewhat less exemplary of its type.
The science fantasy elements remain to varying degrees at least through 7 (and I assume 8, which is in continuity with 6 and 7 but which I haven't played), but again, they're never so foregrounded as in 2.
Lady Insane
Loyalist to the Alvarian Merchant's Guild
- Location
- Bohuslän, Occupied Norway
Given the "prepare to beam down", I wonder if they were originally planning to have character transfer from 2 to 3.
MM6-8 is the perfect game engine, thank you very much. 10/10 no notes, totally not my nostalgia.
Part 3.1: Corak
Part 3.1: Corak
So 3 is probably the game I'm going in with the least knowledge of (except 1).
So what I know
Other than that, manual time.
https://www.mocagh.org/nwc/mm3-manual.pdf
So first, Corak's back. The metafiction are letters of his. And part of what I wonder is that… I know, spoiler wise, that he's an important part of the series. And part of me wonders if this was intentional and planned or his importance was developed. In 1 he's an orc archer that maybe perished in Dragdune? In 2 he's a court wizard which… like are those the same character, because the 2 one seems pretty established, so was there time to play wizard? Or was it a case of being an archer once way back, then went to wizard? Or different Corak's? And is this Corak another one or a continuation of #2?
The legends in the manual seem to be a rehash of . MM2. Elemental fighting created the land, then mortals came, and elementals were not happy. A turbo storm is the threat instead of a dragon this time, and it was already dealt with, but same idea. The 'forces of the dome' (probably tech?) powered up 10 heroes (ie 10 classes)
Which are the 8 from before, plus druid and ranger. Druid having a new 'nature' spell list, and ranger being their archer/paladin equivalent. Other than that in changes it looks like towns have now added banks to keep gold safe.
The end confirms Corak is after Sheltem, and that he may be working to ignite a war. Specifically a war between good and evil. Because like these days good, evil and neutral just sort of get along. "Nevertheless, I am sure the subtle differences of these three, Good, Neutral, and Evil, play into the schemes of Sheltem."
Also several places are named
That said, while the lore is there, I feel like the manual is sparse as a game on, things like hotkeys, or spell descriptions are absent. Hopefully we'll see those in game? But with that review… onward.
Starting we see significant graphic increases
With a voice Sheltem challenged us through a 'third challenge' and noting himself as 'guardian of Terra'.
Getting into the actual game up I notice we we also have a working mouse now, which might be why key descriptions weren't considered as needed in the manual.
This is the start, there is no party creation, we just get right in. And while we have 6 members, we still have two slots, so I'm assuming hirelings? The party members are a bit more oriented towards might that previous ones, opting for both a barbarian and a knight with no archer, also, and I'm kinda surprised at this, no nature caster, despite it being the new features class types. Exploring the buttons (in telephone order)
The diamond is clickable and
We can now save and load at any time, which is a huge help. Also Mr Wizard "help" which… I try it and not entirely sure what it does? Appears to teleport us back to the start after some experimenting. That could be useful, and I'm kinda wondering if we won't need to use it at some point to beat the game like the dismiss hirelings feature in II. I think part of why it was added is that the game now lest you save anywhere, and since dying is game over, and you only have one save slot, Mr. Wizard prevents you from perm-screwing a save file by saving in a dungeon you can't get out of without dying.
Checking Corak's notes
This seems to be justification for monster's in the town. I'm interested to see if the monster's presence ends once we finish the quest.
I go outside and find some enemies, to look at combat and- oh hey once a enemy reaches us the options change
Okay I have to look these up because I am not sure what the difference between 1 and 3 is, the rest I can figure out.
2. spell
4 Item
5. Run
6 block
7. Autofight
I find a reference thing and discover that the "Move" option in non combat is actually 'bash'
As for combat
Okay turns out 1 is autofight, 7 is setting your autofight option. This is a nice upgrade from 1-2, because we can now have a way to incorporate spells into autofighting. And this basic system, with an improved engine, will be going through at least mm8.
I opt to head back to town, on the basis that that the first town has been the place to get early levels in both mm1 and 2, and find the inn where once again, there are hirelings.
Continuing my exploration, I find writing on a wall that 'faithful subjects of king righteous deliver ultimate power orbs to castle Whiteshield' so plot coupons? Side quest?
"The call of adventures is a call to roam return again by saying Home". So this looks like it's maybe an interaction with keywords? I found a pdf with them from gog.
The words corresponds to the manual words and… no I think this is some sort of copy protection I'll probably need to enter later.
Moving onwards I see several monsters behind locked gates, so the townspeople are better at containing their monsters, which means the game gives you a preview of monsters in your first town, so good design there I think. I also found a cartographer which I had a monet of 'but I already have a map' before realizing your starting party comes with some skills. Continuing on I find one monster (which I beat) and…
Okay you can't see it in a static screen shot, but this little lizard guy on the bottom right of the visible part of my screen(right above the blue elf), is going nuts when I look at this area, bashing through gives me a combat with two "Moose Rats". So I think that's my hidden door detector, which is very nice. Less nice is my quick death to them.
Side note, I've gotten a decent map filled up and have encounters on realllllly annoying bit of map design.
See that, notice how walls only appear on the upper and left sides? That's really annoying. On top of that is the face that the 'x' marker we have just tells us where we are, it isn't an arrow direction.
Guys, transgirls pretending to be guys cause it's the 90's, and other programers, please, this is solved. You solved both these in MM2. These are so obviously solvable that I didn't even bother to give MM2 credit for it, and I feel slightly bad for not doing so now. Like, come on.
Genuinely wondering if this is some weird port issue for the walls, because the idea they just… left it like that seems so inane to me.
But, I said I was going to do these, so let's move on.
This shop just… okay that's maybe supposed to be a gnome? Dwarf? And the way they talk, it feels racist but I'm not even sure what it's supposed to be racial characacher of? Feels almost 'funny oriental man talk funny' but…
Ugh, let's move on. Spell guild is only open at night. I drop some money in the bank, and I get my first quest with a priest wanting 5 'silver skulls'. So look out for those. I found two areas, the first is a storage area that has moose rats and oozes, enough to kill the party, reminding you that this game will remain cheerfully lethal. Cavern entrance has bats, which are much more manageable if annoying for their poison. We also get our first 'chests' of the game.
Grabbing the chests and and fighting till injured is enough to let it get to night. So I head to the spell guild and find that, annoyingly, you have to buy individual membership for characters, and somehow entering the guid once tuned it back to day so I can't visit… so back to the cave (adding hirelings this time for a proper full party)
This trap here is a swinging blade (also the top bat thing moves when enemies are near, so bottom is doors, top is enemies, not sure the left). Trying to figure out if there is a way to disable these…
Right so no, just walk through and take dmg, annoying. Taking the damage I found a hint that "Stay South to find the rat overlord." Also killing a goblin gives me loot without searching, so looting is automatic in 3, which is a relief. I was worried I needed to hav a search key for loot and had missed how.
I find a long passageway of traps, and save and just see where it leads, it kills most of my party but..
I have… no idea? I'd like to try to figure this out honestly and I'm not up for it right now (though if someone has hints that's cool) so I load and do some more exploring. More traps which I am growing to hate and hope I find the jump spell soonish as well as more statue heads, this time asking if I want to pay gold for skills. I pay for direction sense, (my hireling has it, but I think best to have it on main char) which is why my diamond now lists n/s/e/w).
Wait… I just got a sense of direction sense… and I couldn't find my direction on the map before and…
Ohhhhh that's why I didn't have an arrow. Okay MM3, I take it back. That's a bit of a skill tax, but that's fine. Fair enough. My previous complaint was invalid. Do uh… do I need another skill to get the extra walls? (no not as far as I can tell, giving all my guys cartograph didn't change is. If anyone knows a fix I'd love to have my southern and eastern walls appearing)
Continuing exploring I manage 5 skulls and…
Ohhhhhh, that's probably the word I need.
With that out of the way, I opt to train, getting myself to level 4 (from level 1 for everyone but the hirelings) and then go to look at equipment where the game huts any good will from finding the direction sense
Because as far as I can tell the game still refuses to tell me the damn equipment stats. Which was barely acceptable in mm1, and mm2 at least had +x which big determinate, but we are moving back again. Is this a skill? Does anyone know, because I am very ill inclined to this and am just going to look up item stats if it isn't.
That said, I'll deal with it later. First I go try out my shiny new level 4 health by taking on the store house, which as 8? Ish moose-rats and a few slimes, when 2 moose rats were deadly before, and win. I also learn that it looks like only 3 enemies can melee us at a time, so that's good to know. After breezing through the much easier dungeon, that rats pw works, and I come out the other side to…
The feels like the most… for lack of a better word "early JRPGy" boss I've fought in the series. For which I mean it has a LOT of hp, enough to make the battle last several rounds, while it's offense isn't as big, and it becomes a endurance of healing enough to offset it's attacks (which are multiple attacks that can hit diff people). This is in contrast to something like MM1, where almost all fights were against many enemies as the tough fights and even the individual bosses tended to have upgraded attacks and defenses compared to normal enemies, in a way that made them very 'rocket tag'. Whereas most bosses in JRPG type games tend to have MASSIVE hp, enough to last multiple rounds, while their offensive is higher then normal enemies, it isn't that much higher*. Since if it was, then there'd be no way to balance a fight you are supposed to take multiple rounds to win while also having normal enemies do reasonable dmg.
*Or rather their dmg can be much higher than individual enemies, but not that much higher than enemy groups
Eithier way, it's got the 'early' part of that tag from being very basic. It attacks. I attack and heal with healers, I win and find the chest behind it.
Woot, Morphose freed. Also honestly this protector seems pretty…. Elementally? Wonder if we are going to have good elementals?
I pick up a few other nuggets of info in side passages in the dungeon.
With that I get out, and find the fountains are now flowing freely, and, give hints if you toss a coin in.
Things I now know
I think that's all of Fountainhead, a decent introduction to the new system. And a game that seems to be going for a lot more 'story' and trying to have lore in ways that 1 and 2 didn't. Though I really wish I had better spell descriptions (the guild has some base descriptions, but they don't tell me things like "1d6 per level" vs "5d10 flat" that I'd really like to know. If anyone knows if that sort of detail is available for spells/items in game, you'd be my best friend, otherwise, I'm going to look it up online.
So 3 is probably the game I'm going in with the least knowledge of (except 1).
So what I know
- This is the first engine update, which will continue from 3-5. (there are a total of 5 engines over the coarse of 10 games) Rather than battles only existing when a battle activates, enemies are actually on the map, and ranged attacks hit them on the map, with melee being only once they close.
- It's the Islands of Terra
- It has 8 characters
- MM7 Spoiler
- There's… either some outposts or gem-mines early on that are great for exp or gems?
Other than that, manual time.
https://www.mocagh.org/nwc/mm3-manual.pdf
So first, Corak's back. The metafiction are letters of his. And part of what I wonder is that… I know, spoiler wise, that he's an important part of the series. And part of me wonders if this was intentional and planned or his importance was developed. In 1 he's an orc archer that maybe perished in Dragdune? In 2 he's a court wizard which… like are those the same character, because the 2 one seems pretty established, so was there time to play wizard? Or was it a case of being an archer once way back, then went to wizard? Or different Corak's? And is this Corak another one or a continuation of #2?
The legends in the manual seem to be a rehash of . MM2. Elemental fighting created the land, then mortals came, and elementals were not happy. A turbo storm is the threat instead of a dragon this time, and it was already dealt with, but same idea. The 'forces of the dome' (probably tech?) powered up 10 heroes (ie 10 classes)
Which are the 8 from before, plus druid and ranger. Druid having a new 'nature' spell list, and ranger being their archer/paladin equivalent. Other than that in changes it looks like towns have now added banks to keep gold safe.
The end confirms Corak is after Sheltem, and that he may be working to ignite a war. Specifically a war between good and evil. Because like these days good, evil and neutral just sort of get along. "Nevertheless, I am sure the subtle differences of these three, Good, Neutral, and Evil, play into the schemes of Sheltem."
Also several places are named
Towns
Swamp town
Fountainhead
Places
Isles of Illusion- Two castles on the sand
- Castle greywind
Buzzard Bluff
Evermoors
Serpent's Wood
Frozen Isles
-Castle Dragontooth
Leper Canyon
Forsaken Sands- contains "Winged Death
Weirdly, there are only a very small number of spells mentioned, likely meaning the spells are labeled in game. The increase in words available in game has a notable effect on manual size and I understand it but am gonna miss expansive manuals.
Swamp town
Fountainhead
Places
Isles of Illusion- Two castles on the sand
- Castle greywind
Buzzard Bluff
Evermoors
Serpent's Wood
Frozen Isles
-Castle Dragontooth
Leper Canyon
Forsaken Sands- contains "Winged Death
Weirdly, there are only a very small number of spells mentioned, likely meaning the spells are labeled in game. The increase in words available in game has a notable effect on manual size and I understand it but am gonna miss expansive manuals.
That said, while the lore is there, I feel like the manual is sparse as a game on, things like hotkeys, or spell descriptions are absent. Hopefully we'll see those in game? But with that review… onward.
Starting we see significant graphic increases
With a voice Sheltem challenged us through a 'third challenge' and noting himself as 'guardian of Terra'.
Getting into the actual game up I notice we we also have a working mouse now, which might be why key descriptions weren't considered as needed in the manual.
This is the start, there is no party creation, we just get right in. And while we have 6 members, we still have two slots, so I'm assuming hirelings? The party members are a bit more oriented towards might that previous ones, opting for both a barbarian and a knight with no archer, also, and I'm kinda surprised at this, no nature caster, despite it being the new features class types. Exploring the buttons (in telephone order)
- Attacks
- Spells
- rest
- move forward
- Dismiss a party member
- Perhaps the most interesting, "Corak's notes' which appear to give us quests and place info.
- Map
- Game info
- Quick reference
The diamond is clickable and
We can now save and load at any time, which is a huge help. Also Mr Wizard "help" which… I try it and not entirely sure what it does? Appears to teleport us back to the start after some experimenting. That could be useful, and I'm kinda wondering if we won't need to use it at some point to beat the game like the dismiss hirelings feature in II. I think part of why it was added is that the game now lest you save anywhere, and since dying is game over, and you only have one save slot, Mr. Wizard prevents you from perm-screwing a save file by saving in a dungeon you can't get out of without dying.
Checking Corak's notes
This seems to be justification for monster's in the town. I'm interested to see if the monster's presence ends once we finish the quest.
I go outside and find some enemies, to look at combat and- oh hey once a enemy reaches us the options change
Okay I have to look these up because I am not sure what the difference between 1 and 3 is, the rest I can figure out.
2. spell
4 Item
5. Run
6 block
7. Autofight
I find a reference thing and discover that the "Move" option in non combat is actually 'bash'
As for combat
Okay turns out 1 is autofight, 7 is setting your autofight option. This is a nice upgrade from 1-2, because we can now have a way to incorporate spells into autofighting. And this basic system, with an improved engine, will be going through at least mm8.
I opt to head back to town, on the basis that that the first town has been the place to get early levels in both mm1 and 2, and find the inn where once again, there are hirelings.
Continuing my exploration, I find writing on a wall that 'faithful subjects of king righteous deliver ultimate power orbs to castle Whiteshield' so plot coupons? Side quest?
"The call of adventures is a call to roam return again by saying Home". So this looks like it's maybe an interaction with keywords? I found a pdf with them from gog.
The words corresponds to the manual words and… no I think this is some sort of copy protection I'll probably need to enter later.
Moving onwards I see several monsters behind locked gates, so the townspeople are better at containing their monsters, which means the game gives you a preview of monsters in your first town, so good design there I think. I also found a cartographer which I had a monet of 'but I already have a map' before realizing your starting party comes with some skills. Continuing on I find one monster (which I beat) and…
Okay you can't see it in a static screen shot, but this little lizard guy on the bottom right of the visible part of my screen(right above the blue elf), is going nuts when I look at this area, bashing through gives me a combat with two "Moose Rats". So I think that's my hidden door detector, which is very nice. Less nice is my quick death to them.
Side note, I've gotten a decent map filled up and have encounters on realllllly annoying bit of map design.
See that, notice how walls only appear on the upper and left sides? That's really annoying. On top of that is the face that the 'x' marker we have just tells us where we are, it isn't an arrow direction.
Guys, transgirls pretending to be guys cause it's the 90's, and other programers, please, this is solved. You solved both these in MM2. These are so obviously solvable that I didn't even bother to give MM2 credit for it, and I feel slightly bad for not doing so now. Like, come on.
Genuinely wondering if this is some weird port issue for the walls, because the idea they just… left it like that seems so inane to me.
But, I said I was going to do these, so let's move on.
This shop just… okay that's maybe supposed to be a gnome? Dwarf? And the way they talk, it feels racist but I'm not even sure what it's supposed to be racial characacher of? Feels almost 'funny oriental man talk funny' but…
Ugh, let's move on. Spell guild is only open at night. I drop some money in the bank, and I get my first quest with a priest wanting 5 'silver skulls'. So look out for those. I found two areas, the first is a storage area that has moose rats and oozes, enough to kill the party, reminding you that this game will remain cheerfully lethal. Cavern entrance has bats, which are much more manageable if annoying for their poison. We also get our first 'chests' of the game.
Grabbing the chests and and fighting till injured is enough to let it get to night. So I head to the spell guild and find that, annoyingly, you have to buy individual membership for characters, and somehow entering the guid once tuned it back to day so I can't visit… so back to the cave (adding hirelings this time for a proper full party)
This trap here is a swinging blade (also the top bat thing moves when enemies are near, so bottom is doors, top is enemies, not sure the left). Trying to figure out if there is a way to disable these…
forum post I found said:
Right so no, just walk through and take dmg, annoying. Taking the damage I found a hint that "Stay South to find the rat overlord." Also killing a goblin gives me loot without searching, so looting is automatic in 3, which is a relief. I was worried I needed to hav a search key for loot and had missed how.
I find a long passageway of traps, and save and just see where it leads, it kills most of my party but..
I have… no idea? I'd like to try to figure this out honestly and I'm not up for it right now (though if someone has hints that's cool) so I load and do some more exploring. More traps which I am growing to hate and hope I find the jump spell soonish as well as more statue heads, this time asking if I want to pay gold for skills. I pay for direction sense, (my hireling has it, but I think best to have it on main char) which is why my diamond now lists n/s/e/w).
Wait… I just got a sense of direction sense… and I couldn't find my direction on the map before and…
Ohhhhh that's why I didn't have an arrow. Okay MM3, I take it back. That's a bit of a skill tax, but that's fine. Fair enough. My previous complaint was invalid. Do uh… do I need another skill to get the extra walls? (no not as far as I can tell, giving all my guys cartograph didn't change is. If anyone knows a fix I'd love to have my southern and eastern walls appearing)
Continuing exploring I manage 5 skulls and…
Ohhhhhh, that's probably the word I need.
With that out of the way, I opt to train, getting myself to level 4 (from level 1 for everyone but the hirelings) and then go to look at equipment where the game huts any good will from finding the direction sense
Because as far as I can tell the game still refuses to tell me the damn equipment stats. Which was barely acceptable in mm1, and mm2 at least had +x which big determinate, but we are moving back again. Is this a skill? Does anyone know, because I am very ill inclined to this and am just going to look up item stats if it isn't.
That said, I'll deal with it later. First I go try out my shiny new level 4 health by taking on the store house, which as 8? Ish moose-rats and a few slimes, when 2 moose rats were deadly before, and win. I also learn that it looks like only 3 enemies can melee us at a time, so that's good to know. After breezing through the much easier dungeon, that rats pw works, and I come out the other side to…
The feels like the most… for lack of a better word "early JRPGy" boss I've fought in the series. For which I mean it has a LOT of hp, enough to make the battle last several rounds, while it's offense isn't as big, and it becomes a endurance of healing enough to offset it's attacks (which are multiple attacks that can hit diff people). This is in contrast to something like MM1, where almost all fights were against many enemies as the tough fights and even the individual bosses tended to have upgraded attacks and defenses compared to normal enemies, in a way that made them very 'rocket tag'. Whereas most bosses in JRPG type games tend to have MASSIVE hp, enough to last multiple rounds, while their offensive is higher then normal enemies, it isn't that much higher*. Since if it was, then there'd be no way to balance a fight you are supposed to take multiple rounds to win while also having normal enemies do reasonable dmg.
*Or rather their dmg can be much higher than individual enemies, but not that much higher than enemy groups
Eithier way, it's got the 'early' part of that tag from being very basic. It attacks. I attack and heal with healers, I win and find the chest behind it.
Woot, Morphose freed. Also honestly this protector seems pretty…. Elementally? Wonder if we are going to have good elementals?
I pick up a few other nuggets of info in side passages in the dungeon.
- Yellow key gets me access to a fortress of fear.
- Find the fountain that stands alone for a reward
With that I get out, and find the fountains are now flowing freely, and, give hints if you toss a coin in.
Things I now know
- Two mortal wizards are eternally fighting, and want to die
- The princess has a curse, give her gifts or heart to breach her loveless walls
- In the southwest the sister of the waters wants shells from the great sea
- Ancient items of good, evil and neutral, in the sands/mountains/woods.
- Mistress of marauders wants pearls in the northeast. Given it talks of flames in this one, I'm guessing we are having a corner elemental map as before. Northeast is fire, southwest water,
- Beneath the vaulting sea is the mystery of the ancient's dream, which we need to be an Ultimate Adventurer to unravel. Betting this is like the final quest? Ancient myster and high seeming requirements makes me think so.
I think that's all of Fountainhead, a decent introduction to the new system. And a game that seems to be going for a lot more 'story' and trying to have lore in ways that 1 and 2 didn't. Though I really wish I had better spell descriptions (the guild has some base descriptions, but they don't tell me things like "1d6 per level" vs "5d10 flat" that I'd really like to know. If anyone knows if that sort of detail is available for spells/items in game, you'd be my best friend, otherwise, I'm going to look it up online.
I've ranted already about the whole balance of good and evil thing. I'd add to that that treating good and evil as teams was another early D&Dism, most prominently featuring in Dragonlance, which also gave us enlightened centrist gods of good, evil and neutral magic who would put aside their differences for the sake of knowledge and presumably ran Operation Paperclip at some point.
Once again, Order vs Chaos is just a more sensible system if you want cosmic forces in opposition and balance.
I think the map is trying to do a perspective, so only some walls would be visible "naturally" due to incline, which just so happened to make maps far less useful.
Part 3.2: Holy Cow
Part 3.2: Holy Cow
With some time to process the game, and think about things, I've been thinking about the graphic evolution of the series. With 1-2 it's easy to see, the way it goes from mostly black and white with color that often has to resort to checkerboard patterns to a full, bright colorful world, as well as more dynamic backgrounds, rather than the enemy type appearing on a blank screen. III continues that, since the enemies all exist 'in the world' they have to appear on any background.
But what really sets it's evolution from 2 apart isn't something I can capture in screenshots, since the main update is motion. 2 reserved motion for key parts, such as the unicorn 'moving' its head in the opening screen. But otherwise static. By contrast 3 is full of motion. The gargoyles telling you of danger, the enemies that are now having a sprite cycle. Etc, etc. It definitely feels like the thing the game designers were trying to 'show off'.
Well that and music, sadly said music is a few tunes looped and is just ear-grating quickly. I know the MM series gets better with music, but I did have to mute it after a bit.
On the more mechanical side, the major differences in items are the 'materials' ranging from leather (-4 to hit) to obsidian (+10 to hit). There are also various bonuses to dmg/resistant to damage types and boni to stats, all of which have their own labels. I will be keeping a tab open to the breakdown on those.
Also, I figured out what "Mr Wizard"'s help does. It takes you back to the starting town… but at the cost of 1 level (so no cost at level 1). So uh… no thanks, and I doubt it's a puzzle solution (I hope).
Heading out, I end up casually clearing some goblins, and I just have to share the orcs of this world.
That is a very… almost Tarsiers-pig design? I find it fascinating and genuinely original. Not that it makes a lot of sense that our half-orc party member is just 'green guy' which is a lot more in line with the goblins of this world. Then again, maybe 'half orc' is an actual race and there is a weird etymological (probably racist) reason they have the name.
Continuing exploration-
I find the outposts which I can destroy for xp, which means I think this is the early game usefulness, and the gem mines are MM4.
More exploration finds me a dungeon
The scariness of this is out when I discover it's "The ancient temple of Moo". The name is just… completely at odds with the visuals. It's filled with pit traps, bones and undead (who give no gold but a lot of gems for casting). Also I discovered that disease in this game can take you from full health to 'dead' forcing me to look it up it seems to decrease int, per and endurance, so I'm guessing it took me to 0 endurance and auto-killed. Annoying.
A bit more and I encounter enough pits and disease-causing enemy that I really kinda want to come back after having the 'levitate' or 'jump' spell if I can. So I opt to do more outdoor exploring. Unlike MM2 I don't have access to the mountain/forest professions yet, not water walking, so I'm actually funnelled to specific areas and…
Wait a minute, just had an idea as I wrote this for next time I'm back in town. Sadly I'm not at town, instead I'm at castle Whitesheild, the castle of the White Wings.
Right, gotta kill some brown people in the middle east if I want to enter this castle. Given they are the 'Whiteshield' shoulda seen that coming. Okay back to town for my idea.
So I found this portal earlier, and was like "oh cool once I find some destinations, I can go". But it needs names that I didn't have.
Buuuuut, I already have destination names from the manual so let's try those.
Tragically does not work, though the hint about speaking the word 'home' comes in handy as that is the one for Fountainhead. So I'm assuming I'll find the proper words for each as I explore.
I continue my trek South, and find
Time to get my sexy swimsuits on!
Wow the summer diet fads are going nuts. Ultimate beach body.
Checking Corak's notes…
So that's the explanation, though the shops are still open, so power to them.
Throwing one in gets a 'keep wishing'. So maybe I need to throw in enough, or maybe it's a trap or maybe I need specific coins? I'll try later
I also find that I can get passage to Swamp Town at "Knight's Point", and that the teleport name for this area is "SEADOG". As well as a 'brother alpha' who gives us info that the special shells are wanted by the nyphm of the sea, see brother beta in the caverns for more info.
More exploring gets me a lot more undead, the sewers and…
Welp, let's go find out. It and the other pits are a '1 person gets a disease/insanity/etc, get a item deal. So after getting the items, rearranging inventory and healing up, I go to the caverns. Which suck, lots of dangerous sludge and pits, and these horrifying things.
Which have an aoe attack that inflicts insanity. Not cool. Given the traps level, I'm clearly gonna need jump or levitate to explore this reasonably. So I make my first real compromise of the run and look up where the damn membership seller for the guild is, who is in town and is embarrassingly in the one area I missed, and that wasn't even one I could blame on the wall missing from my map.
But with guild membership purchased I find jump, levitate and turn undead for my cleric, a wonderful haul.
Back in the caves,which seems to mostly be screamers, bubble men, and interactable skeletons with loot, I find..
Dude I uh… I got some bad news for you. You may be a bit uh… half the man you used to be?
It is, unsurprisingly my first hireling upgrade. (despite the graphic it appears to just be a trapped person, or persons, as there is another right next to them) A Knight-Cleric combo. Since hirelings cost money to train in MM3, getting new ones is very worth it so I can skimp on training and spell learning fees. Also the cleric mentions she was 'captured by skeletons and sold to the phantoms of the caverns' which implies that BOTH skeletons and phantoms are sentient? And use wealth? Or maybe the skeletons are controlled and that's who sold them?
Also, I find brother Beta in the same predicament. He tells me to seek out brother Gamma in Wildbar and 'thank you for freeing me but I may return to my bonds for reasons that do not concern you'. I uh… okay not gonna kinkshame you.
We end up having to back out and heal up, and, not equipped with levitate and turn undead and new hirelings, I opt to go back to finish the temple of Moo.
Also two things of interest. First while looking stuff up I found a world map.
Since this is pretty clearly a 'world map packaged with game' I don't have an issue looking at it. And it does show some interesting stuff. First, this game does not, as I thought, have the elemental corners, and unlike the last two, we start in a corner, (Hidden Valley) not the middle,giving us a much more natural 'path' to go. Which helps with not ending up in areas way too tough, at the cost of being less 'exploration'. It's a choice, and I don't think it's a wrong one.
Secondly Corak's notes appear in the overworld as well.
Which again, gives a lot more guidance to the world than the previous games which… honestly I kinda like? I feel like I have ideas of where to go and what is there, but still have to map it out myself.
I opt to do so, and find these 'huts' that they were talking about.
It has a quest to free Icarus the last unicorn, by finding a golden alicorn found somewhere in the swamplands
Changes of secretly being tech inside: let's say 70%
I take that back 99% and it needs a keycard
Heading back to the Temple of Moo I blaze through most, having only a slight issue with the 'Cleric of Moo' boss on account of lighting. Continuing exploring I find…
(Why is it a lion and not a cow?)
But with this, access to castles here I come.
Also I could have learned this was the main reward if I'd checked my notes at the start.
Honestly this lore is kinda fascinating because it's a pretty flavorful place. This religion is one that seems to be respected enough that it's the criteria for castles, even 'good' castles, allowing people in. If you can best this trial, the god of the cult will bestow upon you glory that all will recognize. And it's a cult of blood and bones and undead. If almost feels very…
"Dark fantasy" world? One where yeah, this cult does undead, and everyone just accepts that. People die and that's part of the world. There aren't 'the accepted religions that are christiantiy with a thin paint coat' vs 'evil cult'. Rather the bone and blood and death IS religion. It's actually kinda cool, though massively ruined by naming it the 'cult of Moo'. Which just torpedoes so much of my ability to engage with it.
I know, I'm applying later-era thinking on this to a game not meant with that in mind. And I know that's a flaw. But… I mean that's how I think about games. I can't turn my brain off. Not when there is flavor here I love. And so yeah… it's so close to working for me. It kinda does, when I remove that name, but… ugh.
With some time to process the game, and think about things, I've been thinking about the graphic evolution of the series. With 1-2 it's easy to see, the way it goes from mostly black and white with color that often has to resort to checkerboard patterns to a full, bright colorful world, as well as more dynamic backgrounds, rather than the enemy type appearing on a blank screen. III continues that, since the enemies all exist 'in the world' they have to appear on any background.
But what really sets it's evolution from 2 apart isn't something I can capture in screenshots, since the main update is motion. 2 reserved motion for key parts, such as the unicorn 'moving' its head in the opening screen. But otherwise static. By contrast 3 is full of motion. The gargoyles telling you of danger, the enemies that are now having a sprite cycle. Etc, etc. It definitely feels like the thing the game designers were trying to 'show off'.
Well that and music, sadly said music is a few tunes looped and is just ear-grating quickly. I know the MM series gets better with music, but I did have to mute it after a bit.
On the more mechanical side, the major differences in items are the 'materials' ranging from leather (-4 to hit) to obsidian (+10 to hit). There are also various bonuses to dmg/resistant to damage types and boni to stats, all of which have their own labels. I will be keeping a tab open to the breakdown on those.
Also, I figured out what "Mr Wizard"'s help does. It takes you back to the starting town… but at the cost of 1 level (so no cost at level 1). So uh… no thanks, and I doubt it's a puzzle solution (I hope).
Heading out, I end up casually clearing some goblins, and I just have to share the orcs of this world.
That is a very… almost Tarsiers-pig design? I find it fascinating and genuinely original. Not that it makes a lot of sense that our half-orc party member is just 'green guy' which is a lot more in line with the goblins of this world. Then again, maybe 'half orc' is an actual race and there is a weird etymological (probably racist) reason they have the name.
Continuing exploration-
I find the outposts which I can destroy for xp, which means I think this is the early game usefulness, and the gem mines are MM4.
More exploration finds me a dungeon
The scariness of this is out when I discover it's "The ancient temple of Moo". The name is just… completely at odds with the visuals. It's filled with pit traps, bones and undead (who give no gold but a lot of gems for casting). Also I discovered that disease in this game can take you from full health to 'dead' forcing me to look it up it seems to decrease int, per and endurance, so I'm guessing it took me to 0 endurance and auto-killed. Annoying.
A bit more and I encounter enough pits and disease-causing enemy that I really kinda want to come back after having the 'levitate' or 'jump' spell if I can. So I opt to do more outdoor exploring. Unlike MM2 I don't have access to the mountain/forest professions yet, not water walking, so I'm actually funnelled to specific areas and…
Wait a minute, just had an idea as I wrote this for next time I'm back in town. Sadly I'm not at town, instead I'm at castle Whitesheild, the castle of the White Wings.
Right, gotta kill some brown people in the middle east if I want to enter this castle. Given they are the 'Whiteshield' shoulda seen that coming. Okay back to town for my idea.
So I found this portal earlier, and was like "oh cool once I find some destinations, I can go". But it needs names that I didn't have.
Buuuuut, I already have destination names from the manual so let's try those.
Tragically does not work, though the hint about speaking the word 'home' comes in handy as that is the one for Fountainhead. So I'm assuming I'll find the proper words for each as I explore.
I continue my trek South, and find
Time to get my sexy swimsuits on!
Wow the summer diet fads are going nuts. Ultimate beach body.
Checking Corak's notes…
So that's the explanation, though the shops are still open, so power to them.
Throwing one in gets a 'keep wishing'. So maybe I need to throw in enough, or maybe it's a trap or maybe I need specific coins? I'll try later
I also find that I can get passage to Swamp Town at "Knight's Point", and that the teleport name for this area is "SEADOG". As well as a 'brother alpha' who gives us info that the special shells are wanted by the nyphm of the sea, see brother beta in the caverns for more info.
More exploring gets me a lot more undead, the sewers and…
Welp, let's go find out. It and the other pits are a '1 person gets a disease/insanity/etc, get a item deal. So after getting the items, rearranging inventory and healing up, I go to the caverns. Which suck, lots of dangerous sludge and pits, and these horrifying things.
Which have an aoe attack that inflicts insanity. Not cool. Given the traps level, I'm clearly gonna need jump or levitate to explore this reasonably. So I make my first real compromise of the run and look up where the damn membership seller for the guild is, who is in town and is embarrassingly in the one area I missed, and that wasn't even one I could blame on the wall missing from my map.
But with guild membership purchased I find jump, levitate and turn undead for my cleric, a wonderful haul.
Back in the caves,which seems to mostly be screamers, bubble men, and interactable skeletons with loot, I find..
Dude I uh… I got some bad news for you. You may be a bit uh… half the man you used to be?
It is, unsurprisingly my first hireling upgrade. (despite the graphic it appears to just be a trapped person, or persons, as there is another right next to them) A Knight-Cleric combo. Since hirelings cost money to train in MM3, getting new ones is very worth it so I can skimp on training and spell learning fees. Also the cleric mentions she was 'captured by skeletons and sold to the phantoms of the caverns' which implies that BOTH skeletons and phantoms are sentient? And use wealth? Or maybe the skeletons are controlled and that's who sold them?
Also, I find brother Beta in the same predicament. He tells me to seek out brother Gamma in Wildbar and 'thank you for freeing me but I may return to my bonds for reasons that do not concern you'. I uh… okay not gonna kinkshame you.
We end up having to back out and heal up, and, not equipped with levitate and turn undead and new hirelings, I opt to go back to finish the temple of Moo.
Also two things of interest. First while looking stuff up I found a world map.
Since this is pretty clearly a 'world map packaged with game' I don't have an issue looking at it. And it does show some interesting stuff. First, this game does not, as I thought, have the elemental corners, and unlike the last two, we start in a corner, (Hidden Valley) not the middle,giving us a much more natural 'path' to go. Which helps with not ending up in areas way too tough, at the cost of being less 'exploration'. It's a choice, and I don't think it's a wrong one.
Secondly Corak's notes appear in the overworld as well.
Which again, gives a lot more guidance to the world than the previous games which… honestly I kinda like? I feel like I have ideas of where to go and what is there, but still have to map it out myself.
I opt to do so, and find these 'huts' that they were talking about.
It has a quest to free Icarus the last unicorn, by finding a golden alicorn found somewhere in the swamplands
Changes of secretly being tech inside: let's say 70%
I take that back 99% and it needs a keycard
Heading back to the Temple of Moo I blaze through most, having only a slight issue with the 'Cleric of Moo' boss on account of lighting. Continuing exploring I find…
(Why is it a lion and not a cow?)
But with this, access to castles here I come.
Also I could have learned this was the main reward if I'd checked my notes at the start.
Honestly this lore is kinda fascinating because it's a pretty flavorful place. This religion is one that seems to be respected enough that it's the criteria for castles, even 'good' castles, allowing people in. If you can best this trial, the god of the cult will bestow upon you glory that all will recognize. And it's a cult of blood and bones and undead. If almost feels very…
"Dark fantasy" world? One where yeah, this cult does undead, and everyone just accepts that. People die and that's part of the world. There aren't 'the accepted religions that are christiantiy with a thin paint coat' vs 'evil cult'. Rather the bone and blood and death IS religion. It's actually kinda cool, though massively ruined by naming it the 'cult of Moo'. Which just torpedoes so much of my ability to engage with it.
I know, I'm applying later-era thinking on this to a game not meant with that in mind. And I know that's a flaw. But… I mean that's how I think about games. I can't turn my brain off. Not when there is flavor here I love. And so yeah… it's so close to working for me. It kinda does, when I remove that name, but… ugh.
Lady Insane
Loyalist to the Alvarian Merchant's Guild
- Location
- Bohuslän, Occupied Norway
I suppose that - and I shall spoiler this for others with no familiarity with the later games, including the Enroth ones - naming cults/temples, even cults you're supposed to take seriously as threats, after animal sounds is something they're going to keep on doing straight on through the entirety of NWC's run, so while silly and at times tonally discordant it somehow ends up as part of the Might and Magic identity.
Fun fact: to date, Screamers are the only videogame enemies with AI advanced enough to feel pain.
hghwolf
Bird of contempt
3 is where the series really hit its stride and I spent many an afternoon as a wee child being absolutely stonewalled by all the puzzles in this game. I still get the urge to replay it every couple of years.
Which is why I am extremely going to shut up now about everything that you are going to have a time finding out.
Will it be a fun time ?
...probably not. But it will be a time.
Which is why I am extremely going to shut up now about everything that you are going to have a time finding out.
Will it be a fun time ?
...probably not. But it will be a time.
I have thoughts about that spoiler I'll get to when we get there, because it something that going this far back has actually changed the way i see it.
grommile
nasty-minded old cynic
- Location
- NERV-Mercia
- Pronouns
- Traditional/Animate
Moo, Baa, Yak, Bark, and Honk.
Lady Insane
Loyalist to the Alvarian Merchant's Guild
- Location
- Bohuslän, Occupied Norway
You're forgetting Eep. Baa and Eep are the ones I think works best of the ones I'm more familiar with, but we're still quite a while away from when why becomes a relevant topic to this thread.
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Maybe your half-orc is green because of something on their human half. M and M seems like the kind of series that would have a random colour change well somewhere in town.
I don't think there's a well in town, but seemingly human characters with odd skin colors were for sure a thing in this series. I don't remember if it applies to 3, but for 4 and especially 5, NWC could be confident players would have Super VGA color depth and by God were they gonna use it.
You know, this is fair. Orcs find green humans the sexiest thing ever.
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- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
To be fair archers are the half a wizard class in might and magic. An archer becoming a wizard is more of an area of growth in a specific realm rather than a total lateral shift to a different field, in that context.
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
No at least in the first game or two archers cast at a lower effective level- that is they learn the same spells at like, seven levels later or something? I don't recall been a bit since I read the comprehensive LPs on the archive that are my main familiarity and How Caster Works varies across games, but I know in the first couple archers pick up casting at all after a few levels, and never get the highest level spells a sorcerer learns.
Though yeah I think if it's the same spell they cast it just as well, since that's all just level and it's not, in spite of my framing, like the archer works on some kinda formal caster level malus to make the level scaled spells worse.
Yep, this is correct, MM3 looks to be the first one where archers only difference is less spell points (should have gone 2 pally, 2 archer 1 ranger 1 robber fr, fr).
hghwolf
Bird of contempt
MM3 is one of the few MMs where you actually want a nature caster, yeah. There's a bunch of useful spells - WATERWALK ! - that are Ranger/Druid only in 3.
Later games... well the way I've always described Xeen Rangers to people is 'a half caster whose caster half is also a half caster'.
Generally speaking though, Knights, and especially Barbarians, are better enough at fighting that they're worth taking over a Paladin or Archer so you'll get plenty of use out of Crag and... the other guy once you have them kitted out right since they have the best and second best attack progression respectively. They can't quite keep up with the most powerful spells but they also don't need a fuckload of SP and a semi-non renewable resource to smack an enemy into next week.
Later games... well the way I've always described Xeen Rangers to people is 'a half caster whose caster half is also a half caster'.
Generally speaking though, Knights, and especially Barbarians, are better enough at fighting that they're worth taking over a Paladin or Archer so you'll get plenty of use out of Crag and... the other guy once you have them kitted out right since they have the best and second best attack progression respectively. They can't quite keep up with the most powerful spells but they also don't need a fuckload of SP and a semi-non renewable resource to smack an enemy into next week.
....
Wait
FUCKING WATER WALK is nature only!? And they don't give you a nature caster in you base party!?
Omg this is obvious given I haven't seen the spell available but I this just actually hit me.
Gotta be some nature hirelings coming up...
hghwolf
Bird of contempt
Finneous, who you've already had, is a Druid and there is a Ranger hireling to be had in uh... Wildabar ? IIRC ?
The funny thing is, in Xeen, where Natural casters are just a mix of Clerical and Arcane spells with no exclusives anymore, you DO have a Ranger in your default party.
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- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
pretty sure 3 is still in the mindset, though less so, as 2 of 'use more than one full party of dudes'. Especially since it did bulk the class list out further.
Though I'd be shocked on general principle if there wasn't at least one hireling per class in general.