I know nothing about FFII, but if you have a missing party member and there's a mysterious Dark Knight running around, it is pretty standard for the two to be related.
Probably wasn't standard when FFII came out, but by now it is.
That's a shame; FFII is the first to actually attempt to have a proper story (as compared to FFI, where the whole plot is contained within the intro blurb and the big infodump before the final dungeon), so it would have been amusing to see an unspoiled reaction to those attempts.
Out of curiosity, how much exactly do you already know about FF2? Was it only that one detail? You seemed surprised by the opening, but not much by the leveling system, so I'd like to get a better idea of what your starting knowledge of the game is.
Things are going to be, uh, exciting today. This will be very image-heavy because I really need to illustrate a whole bunch of stuff.
We've arrived in the town of Bafsk, where the Dreadnought is being constructed - it seems, largely using forced labor from the local population, who are ill motivated. General (formerly Count) Borghen, the previously-mentioned traitor to the Fynn crown, has recently come to be in charge of the town - leading to a massive drop in productivity compared to previously, when the Dark Knight was in charge.
Notably, even the faceless evil soldiers of the conquering regime are bored and demotivated. Real "Stormtroopers on Tatooine" hours here. I'mand probably reading too much into this, but it's striking to me that so far every single imperial soldier NPC has reacted to an interaction prompt by somehow identifying us as rebels and attacking us on sight, whereas those guys have grown complacent enough that they just ignore our presence.
In the center of town is Borghen himself, who sees us and takes us to be more of the enslaved population, and who sounds like a bright, cheerful guy:
There's this weird comment, though:
I don't know how much I should read into this, but it's definitely a strange statement to make in this context.
A brief stop by the local magic shop (Fear/Basuna/Esuna/Silence, I buy Esuna because I'm not sure about the effectiveness of the others), and we go investigate a soldier in an isolated spot who turns out to be a friendly:
God, Borghen really just gets dunked on by everybody.
This guy is a spy for the resistance, and he opens the way to these stairs behind him, which lead us to the sewers beneath the city!
I believe this marks the first sewer level in a FF game.
Just wanted to capture that Self-Destruct. Interesting note: this early presentation of the Baloon/Grenade enemy does not appear to be Fire-aligned, as it takes damage from fire spells just fine.
In short order we reach the end of the sewers and the exit that will lead us to the outside space where the Dreadnought is park. Time for some sabotage-
Hm?
I'm not sure what kind of sense "working behind the scenes" makes given that everyone was complaining that work had slowed down massively with Borghen in charge, but if the goal is to sell the Dark Knight as a mysterious, highly-competent Darth Vader archetype whose designs are not always apparent from the outside, it succeeds decently well.
He doesn't even bother fighting us, instead saying that we will meet again "when the time comes," and leaves - presumably to direct the Dreadnought while Borghen comes to gloat at us, and, uh…
The Dreadnought takes off and starts bombing every town I've visited in the game so far.
That cutscene is genuinely shocking in how abrupt and destructive it is compared to anything in FFI so far. It really feels like FFII wants to go for the big, cinematic experience with great highs and lows - the heroes hunted down and nearly slain in the opening act, the lost brother, the initial heroic successes immediately thrown into stark contrast with the absolute brutal counterstrike by the overwhelming empire - this is the bombing of Aldeeran, straight up.
With the cutscene over, there's little left to do around Bafsk anymore, but leave to see the devastation with our own two eyes.
First things first though, rooting through Borghen's office supplies reveals the pass that we will need to board the Dreadnought later - even if, in the moment, that item seems kind of a slap in the face.
It's interesting that even the citizens of a conquered town under imperial control talk about the Dreadnought's avent in terms of "we're doomed" and "the world we know is over." These people were clearly holding hope for the empire to be defeated and for them to be liberated, and now that hope has died. Jesus.
The girl that hit on me was there.
There's no vague mention of "destruction" without bodycount; most of the ambient NPCs that were there are fucking dead or dying. Every city map has been replaced with a new one with craters everywhere.
All the shop NPCs are fine, but these aren't "real" characters, they exist mostly for gameplay reasons and don't really obey story rules or have any dialogue. Other than those, most towns we've visited so far have been wiped out nearly to a man.
At least, talking to Cid reveals some insights:
Back in Altair, the entire town appears deserted. Appears…
There were survivors - everyone who was indoors at the time of the bombing - but the rest of the town was wiped out. And the King is dying.
Which is extremely bad news for me, because Minwu decides his duties as a white wizard mean he has to leave the party to tend to the King's dying moments! I am not okay with this! I'm still not up to par with him! This will be a severe downgrade in the efficacy of Team Wild Rose!
Well, nothing for it.
Bringing up the Sunfire to Minwu and Princess Hilda nets me some valuable information - Sunfire is involved in Kashuan rituals, and can be found in the Kashuan Keep, although it requires a special torch, Egil's Torch, to transfer it to. This seems like our best lead for how to deal with the Dreadnought; unfortunately, Gordon, the last surviving Kashuan prince, is nowhere to be found in Altair.
My next step seems clear: head for the Kashuan Keep and acquire the Sunfire.
I head back to Cid's, intent on using the ship to get to the Keep. Which I do…
That big fire in the center of the room is the Sunfire. I can interact with it - but none of the available interactions does anything.
And the way forward is blocked.
With literally no means to proceed, I head back out, and realize my mistake - the airship is a one-way trip and leaves immediately after you land.
I have to cross the continent back on foot.
At this point I am ready to say "fuck this" and just reload a save, when I notice…
That forest patch has an odd coloration.
!!!
Hot dang!
Chocobo!
This chocobo is interesting. It may be moving marginally faster across the overworld than the PCs alone? But also, most importantly, it completely avoids random encounters. Which means I can just run across the entire landmass freely, getting directly back to Altair if that's what I feel like doing. I also take the opportunity to do some exploring, but the results are disappointing - it seems I have already run out of overland locations available to explore. Most of the continent is deserted. Only place of note is the little coliseum looking thing in the picture above. I go there…
Of course it's locked.
And I'm instantly jumped by four mobs way above my level that would have wiped me if I hadn't fled.
Unfortunately, once you get off the chocobo, it's gone. You have to do the whole trip in one go or not at all.
So, a quick reload later, we're back on the chocobo and use it to take the long way round back to Altair. We head back into the hideout, talk to everyone again…
It turns out I needed to use the right trigger word with the King, so he would bring up a Bell, which would be its own keyword, which I then bring to Princess Hilda, who then tells me…
Right. That was a lot of wasted time. I need to be more thorough in the future.
So we head back to Salamand, and to Josef, who was barely any help the first time around. Maybe he'll improve this time!
Josef's concept art.
Alright, let's check out what this bad boy can do-
oh no.
Josef has only one rank in one weapon skill, his fists. He has no magic, special ability, or equipment. He literally just has two fists and half as much HP as the rest of my group.
God, but I long for Minwu.
Well, with Josef in tow, we head back to Semitt Falls, where he unlocks a hidden wall and we retrieve the snowcraft.
Wheeeeee!
Oh yeah baby, we doin' Tintin au Tibet but with more violence
The snowy area is the only one that I can see on the map, and the game is trying to milk it for all its worth by stretching it out in width and having you bump into a whole bunch of snow monsters on the way to the dungeon, and then back.
The Ice Cave is a standard dungeon, without the falling floors and spiked floors of the Ice Cave in FFI. It's just floor, corridors, treasure chests, floors, corridors…
And entirely too many of these.
Most of the encounters are either snow monsters, or undead.
These guys have paralyzing attacks, so it's worth watching out for them, but Maria's Cure spell deals massive damage to undead party-wide, so they're not much of a threat.
These guys are the only real threat in the dungeon. They can survive one blow from anyone and hit hard in return and there's four of them, so an encounter inevitably results in some damage. Thankfully, they're rare.
And then.
The beavers happen.
This is a cave filled with giant beavers.
I think the implication is that it is some kind of internal hot spring, hence why they're all chilling in the water in subzero temperatures?
Cute.
God.
This is the one bit I wish I hadn't been spoiled on because it comes so out of nowhere and it's, just.
Can Guy talk to animals??
Was he raised by beavers???
It's so inexplicable. I love it. It's so perfectly goofy and I would absolutely see this as a throwaway guy in an episodic fantasy anime.
There is unfortunately no further context to add, this just Happens, and then we move on to the boss room.
The game gets points for its first introduction of the "adamantoise," which would be another recurring monster of varying degrees of specialness, from "random overworld mob" to "mountain kaiju." It gets points docked, however, for using another recolored generic sprite for a boss fight, for the second time in a row.
That's not the only thing being recycled here. The Adamantoise is just the Sergant But More. It has one physical attack and absurdly high defense. The problem is that its defense is so high that Firion and Maria rapidly exhaust their remaining MP using spells, the only thing that deals it any damage other than, bizarrely, Josef's fists.
When the MP runs out, it's sadness time. I just have everyone auto-attack every turn, but the only things that deal any damage are either Josef or someone else landing a crit. Otherwise it's a cavalcade of zeroes. It's boring and more than that it's unsatisfying.
Like yeah, I win in the end and with near-top HP eventually, because my characters have high evasion and good defense, but this was just playing the lottery and seeing if I could outrun the adamantoise. Turns out I could. Great.
But at least we get what we came here for:
And with that over, the wall ahead opens up, leading us straight back to the first floor of the dungeon! And…
Urgh. Fine. Let's do this.
Borghen is a pushover, as one might expect from the way everyone's been talking about it. Even having run out of magic, he collapses in two straight hits.
And then…
Borghen triggers an Indiana Jones booby trap, and a giant boulder comes barreling down towards us. In a feat of superhuman prowess, Josef turns around and holds the boulder back, allowing the rest of the group to escape - shortly before being crushed by the falling stone.
It's a pretty decent dramatic sacrifice cutscene given its limited means, blunted by the fact that I don't really care about Josef. But I'll give the game credit for actually putting in the effort here. We're clearly at the start of something, even if we're playing on some old, well-trod classics.
It's interesting that they kind of split the Obi-Wan role into Minwu (the overcompetent mentor figure with clairvoyance and vast powers), and Josef (the old man from a distant backwater, the guy who actually dies saving the rest of the party), but the Star Wars DNA is definitely starting to show at this stage.
I won't be missing Josef much on a mechanical level though. Dude, like… existed. Okay, I'm being unfair; under the exact circumstances I approached the Adamantoise fight I wouldn't have been able to win without him on board, but that could have been fixed on a second attempt with some gear tweaks (taking off Guy's shields).
And now we go back to Salamand with the sorrowful news…
This shot of Josef's body disappearing and the trio watching at the empty spot where he was and the lighting dims slightly is honestly a very nice touch and the closest this moment approaches to being actually sad.
Well, that too ;_;
Wow. Lot's been happening here, uh? This has been kind of a downer chapter! Except for riding the chocobo. That was fantastic.
Hopefully things pick up next time as we enter the Kashuan Keep.
Just going to give you a tip, but you probably want to fiddle with your party order right now and put your most durable character in the front while everyone else is in the back. You can do Row shenanigans starting in this game, and Back Row literally can't receive or deliver melee attacks
Agility is also something trained by using it, namely, by dodging attacks, and if all incoming attacks are being split four ways, it means nobody is training their Agility.
Which means when the game gets Unfair instead of merely Difficult, you're going to find yourself just randomly exploding because nobody knows how to dodge.
Just going to give you a tip, but you probably want to fiddle with your party order right now and put your most durable character in the front while everyone else is in the back. You can do Row shenanigans starting in this game, and Back Row literally can't receive or deliver melee attacks
Agility is also something trained by using it, namely, by dodging attacks, and if all incoming attacks are being split four ways, it means nobody is training their Agility.
Which means when the game gets Unfair instead of merely Difficult, you're going to find yourself just randomly exploding because nobody knows how to dodge.
I've been warned that, at least in the start, I should keep my intended back-row characters to the front, because getting hurt a lot is precisely how yo udevelop higher HP in the long run. Right now I have two characters at Evasion 99% (Maria is lagging somewhat behind), so Agility training should go alright.
Good to know! FF2--like any SaGa game--has a hell of a learning cliff later on, and the more headaches you experience today, the less you'll experience tomorrow!
A brief stop by the local magic shop (Fear/Basuna/Esuna/Silence, I buy Esuna because I'm not sure about the effectiveness of the others), and we go investigate a soldier in an isolated spot who turns out to be a friendly:
That cutscene is genuinely shocking in how abrupt and destructive it is compared to anything in FFI so far. It really feels like FFII wants to go for the big, cinematic experience with great highs and lows - the heroes hunted down and nearly slain in the opening act, the lost brother, the initial heroic successes immediately thrown into stark contrast with the absolute brutal counterstrike by the overwhelming empire - this is the bombing of Aldeeran, straight up.
I feel like the entire game's broad strokes are basically 'Star Wars, But On A Planet'. I do find it interesting how quickly you're drawing the comparisons.
The game gets points for its first introduction of the "adamantoise," which would be another recurring monster of varying degrees of specialness, from "random overworld mob" to "mountain kaiju." It gets points docked, however, for using another recolored generic sprite for a boss fight, for the second time in a row.
That's not the only thing being recycled here. The Adamantoise is just the Sergant But More. It has one physical attack and absurdly high defense. The problem is that its defense is so high that Firion and Maria rapidly exhaust their remaining MP using spells, the only thing that deals it any damage other than, bizarrely, Josef's fists.
When the MP runs out, it's sadness time. I just have everyone auto-attack every turn, but the only things that deal any damage are either Josef or someone else landing a crit. Otherwise it's a cavalcade of zeroes. It's boring and more than that it's unsatisfying.
In a bizarre choice for a snow dungeon, the real trick here is to just have someone competent at Blizzard. The Adamantoise is weak to ice, and can be downed in surprisingly few casts by a solid Black Mage, perhaps as little as two or three depending how much you grind.
It's interesting that they kind of split the Obi-Wan role into Minwu (the overcompetent mentor figure with clairvoyance and vast powers), and Josef (the old man from a distant backwater, the guy who actually dies saving the rest of the party), but the Star Wars DNA is definitely starting to show at this stage.
I won't be missing Josef much on a mechanical level though. Dude, like… existed. Okay, I'm being unfair; under the exact circumstances I approached the Adamantoise fight I wouldn't have been able to win without him on board, but that could have been fixed on a second attempt with some gear tweaks (taking off Guy's shields).
Yeah, I think Star Wars DNA is a good way to put it. They didn't just one to one all the plot beats, you're not going to nail everything by just reading a Star Wars script and assuming it applies- for example, Leon is Maria's brother, not Firion's father, and as you've noted the Dark Knight seems to be our Darth Vader analogue, while Firion is clearly the Luke analogue.
Just going to give you a tip, but you probably want to fiddle with your party order right now and put your most durable character in the front while everyone else is in the back. You can do Row shenanigans starting in this game, and Back Row literally can't receive or deliver melee attacks
Agility is also something trained by using it, namely, by dodging attacks, and if all incoming attacks are being split four ways, it means nobody is training their Agility.
Which means when the game gets Unfair instead of merely Difficult, you're going to find yourself just randomly exploding because nobody knows how to dodge.
I simply had everyone in the front row at all times. If you get their Evasion stat to 99% for a while you can train their Agility enough to still have 99% after changing whatever stupid shit you were doing to get that number (naked and double shields for me) and once you've done that it's fine for the rest of the game. Enemies can do multihits too after all, and your characters dodge individual hits in a multiattack instead of just the entire thing (listed on the status screen as 1 x 99% or 2 x 99% or whatever), so even when an enemy hits you they probably dodged the worst part of it and thus gained evasion xp.
Alright nerds, I'm hanging around Fynn before heading to Kashuan Keep, trying to do some grinding and being horribly inefficient at it. I made a spur of the moment decision to just buy a whole bunch of white magic for Guy because it felt stupid to leave him with literally just the Attack button and nothing else, but obviously it's starting from an awfully low level. What do you think and do you have any suggestions:
I would ask if the remaster fixed the attack > cancel bug, where inputting the command and then canceling it without actually using the ability still grants XP, which is then endlessly repeatable, or if they left that one in. If it's still there, it's absolutely possible to grind any single ability to max level in a single fight. Tedious and time-consuming, but possible and risk-free. I would imagine that'd be the first thing to fix in any FFII remake, but weirder things have happened.
Important reminder that we're getting this right between the tragedy of the Dreadnought killing everyone and the tragedy of Josef dying and leaving his daughter alone.
Important reminder that we're getting this right between the tragedy of the Dreadnought killing everyone and the tragedy of Josef dying and leaving his daughter alone.
Alright nerds, I'm hanging around Fynn before heading to Kashuan Keep, trying to do some grinding and being horribly inefficient at it. I made a spur of the moment decision to just buy a whole bunch of white magic for Guy because it felt stupid to leave him with literally just the Attack button and nothing else, but obviously it's starting from an awfully low level. What do you think and do you have any suggestions:
Having the theoretically tankiest dude also be a backup healer is probably smart, and you were previously relying on Minwu as a white mage to some degree. Can't expect every new party member to be your primary heal bot, as seen with Josef. If nothing else it gives him some flexibility for when the battle is practically won as is and you want to heal off some lingering damage.
So you've lost your first two temporary party members. When I played the game, I thought I was being a clever optimizer when I'd remove their gear before they died to prevent it from being lost. That was a mistake; don't do that in your playthrough.
I'mand probably reading too much into this, but it's striking to me that so far every single imperial soldier NPC has reacted to an interaction prompt by somehow identifying us as rebels and attacking us on sight, whereas those guys have grown complacent enough that they just ignore our presence.
In all the previous situations, you were pretty much in a restricted military area. The only people allowed there were imperial soldiers, their monsters, and maybe slaves. The party was a well-armed group that were obviously not any of the three permitted categories.
Here, it seems that thanks to Borghen's betrayal, his townsfolk were not slaughtered or explicitly enslaved. This means that his town could plausibly do trade with independent groups, or have other reasons for a small group of armed non-imperials to be passing through.
So you've lost your first two temporary party members. When I played the game, I thought I was being a clever optimizer when I'd remove their gear before they died to prevent it from being lost. That was a mistake; don't do that in your playthrough.
No, Soul of Rebirth is essentially a bonus extension of the story taking advantage of things already there to make new content but that is fully new and arguably contradictory to the main plot. It's nice, but it wasn't there in the original.
For some reason the terse Guy-speak makes this line so much more hilarious.
Also I'm experiencing what I've heard called "reverse nostalgia", ie being familiar with a reference in a newer game (FFXIV and its running joke about mysteriously multiplying beavers) and finally seeing the original source.
Gameplay question: what does grinding generally look like in this game? By which I specifically mean the Pixel Remaster. Do you just spam-cast each spell you want to level until you run out of MP, then go back and rest at an inn? Is there diminishing returns if you just walk the same path of five tiles searching for random encounters to auto-battle? Any particular tips I need to look out for?
For some reason the terse Guy-speak makes this line so much more hilarious.
Also I'm experiencing what I've heard called "reverse nostalgia", ie being familiar with a reference in a newer game (FFXIV and its running joke about mysteriously multiplying beavers) and finally seeing the original source.
Gameplay question: what does grinding generally look like in this game? By which I specifically mean the Pixel Remaster. Do you just spam-cast each spell you want to level until you run out of MP, then go back and rest at an inn? Is there diminishing returns if you just walk the same path of five tiles searching for random encounters to auto-battle? Any particular tips I need to look out for?
I mean, from the Watsonian viewpoint, that makes sense, doesn't it? That the characters within the story train to become stronger by sparring with each other?
But yeah, grinding in FFII is an even more boring experience than in most others RPG.
I mean. You can just not do that. The game doesn't force you to do it. You genuinely do not have to optimize the fun out of the game. I beat it just fine without doing that, and yes, I knew you could. Maybe it takes longer, but you well and truly can just grind a more normal way.