- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Oh this is neat. Now to obsessively respond to the entire thread so far, or more accurately what I care to respond to.
I have no clue how well this applies across versions, but I played the shit out of the Dawn of Souls version and in that, I ultimately concluded there was an objective perfect party; Thief/Monk/Red Mage/White Mage.
this is me playing ff1 in a nutshell. I relate, to say the least.
Fun fact Red Wizards can learn some lower level magic that Red Mages can't. (but not all).
In Dawn of Souls at least, Temper stacks, making the objective best way to make anything dead be haste your monk, cast as many tempers per turn as you can, and if you have the item for it, have them self-saber, and then just go ham on killing everything.
This is basically the paradigm for the rest of the game in my experience. Magic stops being good for direct damage on bosses compared to a Monk/Master or even just like, a Red Mage with stacked boosts, but can sweep through some random encounters easily due to the area damage component.
Honestly any four classes will do good enough, and experimentation shows four monks is funny and better than you'd think, but yeah it's a bit awkward having to hard commit when you don't know what's good.
Especially since the class changes hugely impact it.
tbf you will fight all four fiends again in the Shrine of Chaos as end game minibosses
but yeah he's pretty badass in vibes.
Oh huh, I never caught that detail. I always found FF1 really neat and details like that contribute.
this is wise.
my recollection is that in Dawn of Souls at least (but of course remakes change things) Red Wizard is statistically identical to Red Mage, only benefitting from better equipment and spell access. (including better access to low level, mostly white magic, as I mentioned earlier)
From my own experience obsessively playing Dawn of Souls, they definitely do. Monk is only moderately more lethal than fighter in my experience, but Master is a glass cannon that kills the hardest by a wide margin, and monk unarmored bonuses are bad enough I found it was often better to armor them anyways, whereas even superior end-game armors are just blatantly worse than the Master's naked body.
They're just not useful. Ultimately I concluded that Black Wizards are basically worthless because Red Wizards do the random encounter cleaning essentially as well and can stab harder, and the few spells exclusive to the Black Wizard are just. bad?
Alas.
(now I'm not sure if that applies to any given non-dawn of souls version given where my experience lies)
Ninja can equip nearly every piece of equipment Knights can, which leads to a massive power spike because Thiefs are vastly worse than Fighters at equipping things and then Ninja are better than fighters and roughly identical to Knights. There's like, maybe one or two end game armors that are knight only? But not much.
FF1 gives you the choice of a party of four characters picked from six classes: Warrior, Thief, Monk, Red Mage, White Mage, and Black Mage. The 'standard' party is Warrior, Thief, White Mage, Black Mage, and that works perfectly well, but you can use any combination up to and including "all White Mages" if you want. In this case, Red Mage (a hybrid mage that can wield both black and white magic) is the only one of these classes that I've actually played in FF14, so it has to go in, but I also loathe the idea of not getting access to the highest spells in the game, so the other two Mages have to go in, redundancy be damned. The last slot would likely be better filled by a Warrior, capable of both physical offense and significant defense, but with RDM/WHM doubling down on the healing, I've decided to go with the pure offense power of the Monk, the only class to never get any magic, trading it in for more punches.
I have no clue how well this applies across versions, but I played the shit out of the Dawn of Souls version and in that, I ultimately concluded there was an objective perfect party; Thief/Monk/Red Mage/White Mage.
On the second try, because on the first try he killed one of my PCs, and I realized that when a character dies, they don't get XP from the fight. Now that doesn't really matter because it balances out over enough battles, probably? I will never know. The very idea bothered me so much I decided this would be a no death run and I have been reloading every time one of my PCs died, like a psychopath.
this is me playing ff1 in a nutshell. I relate, to say the least.
As a Red Mage, Alisaie has both a broader and narrower selection of spells available. She can, and does, learn Haste and Blizarra, and as for white magic she learns Cura, an upgraded healing spell - but she can't learn Diara, a "damage undead" spell, or Heal, a "heal everybody a slight amount" spell, which are only accessible to Alphinaud.
Fun fact Red Wizards can learn some lower level magic that Red Mages can't. (but not all).
I assume he also has other moves. I did not get to see them. What happened was, Yda first hit him in the face to the tune of 150 damage, then Alisaie and Papalymo cast Haste (double attack rates) and Temper (increased damage), and shit hit Astos for 350+ damage, killing him on Turn 2.
Wow.
I mean I knew the Monk was a beast but… wow.
In Dawn of Souls at least, Temper stacks, making the objective best way to make anything dead be haste your monk, cast as many tempers per turn as you can, and if you have the item for it, have them self-saber, and then just go ham on killing everything.
We've entered a new paradigm under which Yda and Alisaie hit with physical attacks much harder than Papalymo's spells individually, but Papalymo has spells that hit the entire enemy screen, which can easily add up to five or six times as much damage overall than any given attack. Alisaie also has those spells, unfortunately she has decided she didn't feel like leveling up Intellect, so her spell damage doesn't scale for shit and there's nothing I can do about it. Fortunately, she does hit quite hard with that sword of hers.
This time there is no need for multiple expeditions. Thanks to plentiful healing spells from both Alisaie and Alphinaud and having finally remembered that Ether exists and can replenish your spell slots, we manage to power through and reach the bottom of the Cavern of Earth.
This is basically the paradigm for the rest of the game in my experience. Magic stops being good for direct damage on bosses compared to a Monk/Master or even just like, a Red Mage with stacked boosts, but can sweep through some random encounters easily due to the area damage component.
I think that XV is the only Final Fantasy I've actually finished, and I keep intending to do what you're doing here, but man, the fact you have to choose and are locked into exactly four classes right at the beginning of FFI really sets off my choice paralysis something awful, and then I end up replaying the first hour like a hundred times over with different teams because I'm sure I've got something wrong.
It's also, as you've encountered, got the atrocious status effect mechanics of early dungeon-crawlers, which are literally just money sinks to force you to grind more.
Honestly any four classes will do good enough, and experimentation shows four monks is funny and better than you'd think, but yeah it's a bit awkward having to hard commit when you don't know what's good.
Especially since the class changes hugely impact it.
Somehow it feels weird that this Grim Leaper-looking motherfucker is only the first of the big element-destroying fiends you fight in the game, he feels more endgame than that, but that's just me.
tbf you will fight all four fiends again in the Shrine of Chaos as end game minibosses
but yeah he's pretty badass in vibes.
One thing I find interesting about this is that it answers a question I had in the back of my mind since the start. In the intro, it is said "The world lies shrouded in darkness. The winds die. The seas rage. The earth decays." No mention is made of fire, and I was wondering if we were only going with three elements, or what was up with that. The answer is that there is actually no fire-related disaster yet - the Fiend of Fire has only just now awakened and started feeding on the Fire Crystal, and I have the opportunity to stop them before things escalate to more natural disasters, which would likely involve wildfires.
Oh huh, I never caught that detail. I always found FF1 really neat and details like that contribute.
Dragon people? Citadel of trials? Recognition of the Dragon King?
Fuck me baby, you know there's no way I don't go for it.
The Citadel of Trials can only be one of the two overworld locations left: the spooky desert tower or the mean-looking castle, and my money's on the castle.
this is wise.
Bahamut, the Dragon King, receives the rat's tail and proceeds to use his awesome power to transform my entire party into upgraded versions of their base classes.
Yda is now a Master. Alisaie is a Red Wizard. Alphinaud is a White Wizard. Papalymo is a Black Wizard.
Whether these new upgrades translate to raw stat boosts is unclear. Yda is definitely hitting harder, and Alisaie can now equip better stuff, but a lot of the underlying mechanics are obscured if you don't use a wiki, and even if you do it's hard to parse what applies to Pixel Remaster as opposed to Dawn of Souls or NES classic. More importantly, however, I can finally buy every spell in the game. Alisaie, Alphinaud and Papalymo's range of spells have expanded to cover the entire library between the three of them, and I use the airship to go on a shopping spree and fill out their spellbooks, including with the Exit spell so I never have to deal with a dungeon run-back ever again.
my recollection is that in Dawn of Souls at least (but of course remakes change things) Red Wizard is statistically identical to Red Mage, only benefitting from better equipment and spell access. (including better access to low level, mostly white magic, as I mentioned earlier)
I believe that the formula the game uses to calculate the Monk's unarmed damage and unarmored defense changes to a better one as Master; at the very least Yda's damage numbers have gotten bigger.
From my own experience obsessively playing Dawn of Souls, they definitely do. Monk is only moderately more lethal than fighter in my experience, but Master is a glass cannon that kills the hardest by a wide margin, and monk unarmored bonuses are bad enough I found it was often better to armor them anyways, whereas even superior end-game armors are just blatantly worse than the Master's naked body.
Wait, actually, hold up.
See that above? Stop, Warp, Kill?
Can any FF1 veteran tell me if those are actually useful at all before I spend my hard-earned gil on them?
The game going "this is the highest level of spell so it's all instadeath and screen-wide paralysis" is like… conceptually it's neat, but… Those are never going to work on bosses, yeah? And so far I have yet to meet a mob encounter that doesn't get wiped by a Flare cast. Do I really have any use for those spells?
Well, in the meantime, there's a plot hook!
They're just not useful. Ultimately I concluded that Black Wizards are basically worthless because Red Wizards do the random encounter cleaning essentially as well and can stab harder, and the few spells exclusive to the Black Wizard are just. bad?
Alas.
(now I'm not sure if that applies to any given non-dawn of souls version given where my experience lies)
In any case, the place turns out to be full of loot. Most of which looks pretty valuable… and is useless. There is a full set of Diamond defensive gear, which can only be equipped by a Warrior (maybe a Ninja? I don't have one of those), and is thus as useful to me as a pile of bricks. Still, there's another magic item, and the Giant's Gloves make up for many shortcomings.
Ninja can equip nearly every piece of equipment Knights can, which leads to a massive power spike because Thiefs are vastly worse than Fighters at equipping things and then Ninja are better than fighters and roughly identical to Knights. There's like, maybe one or two end game armors that are knight only? But not much.