Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Playing: Final Fantasy IX]

From about FF6 until whenever the internet drove them to extinction, I feel like the intended experience of Final Fantasy games included (nagging your parents into) buying a strategy guide. Square had to have had some kind of understanding with strategy guide publishers.
An understanding that fell apart with IX. Half the officially endorsed strategy guides tips were "check our website for more details", despite it being the age of dialup phone line internet and few people having a computer accessible from where their TV and PS1 were located
 
I think you guys have wildly misjudged how funny I'm finding this right now.
Come on Omi. Harness your true power. The power to ignore stuff you don't actually need and just keep going.

Also you still need to go get that ribbon.

A lot of you seems to have wildly misjudged my mood when going for the ribbon jokes, I am not nearly feel that good humoured about things, how about we just stop that for a bit hmm :V

Oh! Did you complete the side-quest there? You need to bring either Quistis or Irvine to do it. And you can also obtain another Phoenix Pinion by hassling the baby at the Chocobo crossing.
*stares at this sentence in the context of everything of what he just went through re:missable and hidden quests for the past two updates*

i'm gonna throttle a gamedev
My advice? If you miss something optional and it's not some major plot revelation, like say missing this Phoenix Pinion quest-line, just shrug and say "oh well," and then keep on trekking. It makes RPGs a lot faster, even ones that aren't as borked as this game seems to be. And, for that matter, any time a side quest looks like too much bother, feel free to give up.

For example, I was recently playing Baldur's Gate 3 and I discovered
Minthara
was recruitable but only many hours after having killed that character. Did I reload? Nope, just kept going and figured, eh, killing them was a more in-character action and also I was in Act II at the time and I was not going back to Act I for this.

If you miss something, well, that's part of the experience of playing the game, too, the way FVIII seems to be designed.
This is something we'll probably have to talk more in-depth at some point in this LP, the mood has never really struck me to do a longpost about it, but basically there is an inherent tension between the desire for me as a LPer to experience all that the game has to offer so that I can talk about it, and the desire to show the game 'as I experience it,' semi-blind, with all the missed stuff that this implies.

In this very thread we've had at least one person, I believe, commenting that their impression of the central relationship of the game had been negatively impacted by scenes like the Fisherman's Horizon concert dialogue between Rinoa and Squall having three different versions, only one of which satisfyingly ties into their romantic arc. What's the correct way to play the game: By just rolling with it, presenting a version of the story in which it's poorly conveyed and handled because I missed optional content and having people telling me 'okay but if you had spotted this scene it would have made the whole thing a lot better,' or playing with a degree of artificiality, as a pseudo-completionist trying to get the 'best' version of the game?

I am going to take a wild guess that I feel pretty confident in, and say that I think my readers in general would be inclined to say that the story content (Rinoa and Squall having a meaningful conversation) is more important to giving FF8 its 'best foot forward' than the gameplay content (never finding or using the Phoenix Pinion). But, well, that's partly because y'all are not in my head, playing the game. I'm the one directly engaging with the mechanics and the systems of this incredibly abstruse but also possibly really deep game and trying to make it work. I'm the one who's collecting GFs and clicking buttons and battle, and the divide between "the story is really good" and "the gameplay is really frustrating" is a major subject of my conflicted thoughts on this game, so trying to figure out how to make its gameplay right for me, if I can, is complicated but also something I need to do if I'm going to spend another 10-20 hours in this game.
 
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I think my readers in general would be inclined to say that the story content (Rinoa and Squall having a meaningful conversation) is more important to giving FF8 its 'best foot forward'
I agree, for what it's worth- I do enjoy hearing thoughts about the gameplay and outliers are interesting, but the story already involves enough content that those both come up naturally. I never played any Final Fantasy game, for context, but FMPOV I'm happy to just read about you playing the main story and whatever else interests you for however long it holds your interest.
 
*stares at this sentence in the context of everything of what he just went through re:missable and hidden quests for the past two updates*
Right, that was perhaps a bit annoying at this time; apologies for it.

You don't actually need to do the quest, the only reward is one of the magic-casting stones (you've probably gotten a few already, they are consumables that lets you cast the spell inside the gem by using it with the Item command), which is basically nothing. The quest, as usual, involves talking with a number of people in different locations in town (thus a lot of backtracking) to collect four plot coupons. One of the four plot coupons requires you to have either Irvine or Quistis in the team to obtain, for whatever mad reason.

And you can do the chocobo-hassling without starting the quest, it's just that doing it drops one of the four plot coupons as one of the possible items, and the Phoenix Pinion as another (I think you can get five items in total?), so the two are connected in my mind, even though you don't need to do one in order to be able to do the other.
 
So, I don't know if Omi is really getting across just how clunky the multiple screens are in practice.

FFVIII is a game that knows it is very artistically crafted and as beautiful as a game can get for its time period.
It is also a game that very bluntly informs the gamer that devs deciding to force you to look at their pretty pictures is not a new thing, it has been happening ever since they found their pictures pretty enough.

There often is a point to every single screen, but between combat focused visits/revisits, random card game NPCs, flavor text locations, plot focused scenes in locations that need connections to other locations, and just general worldbuilding the result is a game where you can very easily realize "this is why they invented fast travel".

Combine that with how much minor easily missed stuff there is, and a combat system that seems to both want you to break it and also to half expect to you to be missing half the game's content, and you get something that is a pile of good ideas that together sort of become a mess of clunky bits.

When it comes to five hours of side quest, at least a good hour and a half of that is likely just traversal. Sometimes mandatory traversal, like the mentioned trip from the Village to the Horizon and back. Where Omi likely had to go through a half dozen screens on each end of the trip just to reach the places where the NPCs to talk to were located.
 
First result in google, first upload in 2012.

I first played FF8 around 2001, so like I said that doesn't count.

If it's not obvious, I was joking.

But I'm not joking when I say that if it were me I'd probably be more comfortable using a gameshark code than an editor and I'm not entirely sure why that is.

-Morgan.
 
It should probably also be noted with those travel times, that... well, we're running on around PSX technology now, not modern day remakes of NES/SNES games. The NES Final Fantasy titles had some degree of transition time between screens, but also towns and locations generally weren't all that deep to require dozens of screens to transition through. FFI in particular didn't even have actual shop interiors in towns, you just entered a shop or inn or whatever and were sent straight to a little menu asking you what you wanted to pay money for! And the SNES games were much faster with load times. And again, all this was sped up by the remakes being on modern hardware, they've had decades to make things better.

And then you jump to FFVII/FFVIII, where every single screen transition tends to be "fade out, fade in, this takes at least five seconds of time". Even with emulator speedup (Haha for just a second Omi consider if you hadn't ended up playing on emulator with access to such a thing), consider that those dozen+ transitions between screens is wasting entire minutes or even hours of time when you add it together. I can't recall if FFIX is as bad in this department or not, we'll see when we get there.
 
FFIX still has screen transitions and load times, obviously, but you need to do a lot less back and forth and each single screen packs a lot more stuff in it than a FFVIII screen does - comparably to FFVII, but with a lot more detail and better graphics. It's about as good a fusion of FFVII "one-screen towns with everything reachable within one single transition" and FFVIII "extremely detailed towns with dozens of transitions to reach specific locations" as you could get. And the sidequests are properly signposted and follow logic chains that make intuitive sense, for the most part. One of many reasons why FFIX is the best of the lot.
 
Please do whatever you need to do to feel better about this LP Omi. I am curious where it's going, story-wise, but I'm definitely to the point where I'm skimming the denser gameplay sections. I've just accepted that it's kind of a mess.
 
This is something we'll probably have to talk more in-depth at some point in this LP, the mood has never really struck me to do a longpost about it, but basically there is an inherent tension between the desire for me as a LPer to experience all that the game has to offer so that I can talk about it, and the desire to show the game 'as I experience it,' semi-blind, with all the missed stuff that this implies.

In this very thread we've had at least one person, I believe, commenting that their impression of the central relationship of the game had been negatively impacted by scenes like the Fisherman's Horizon concert dialogue between Rinoa and Squall having three different versions, only one of which satisfyingly ties into their romantic arc. What's the correct way to play the game: By just rolling with it, presenting a version of the story in which it's poorly conveyed and handled because I missed optional content and having people telling me 'okay but if you had spotted this scene it would have made the whole thing a lot better,' or playing with a degree of artificiality, as a pseudo-completionist trying to get the 'best' version of the game?

I am going to take a wild guess that I feel pretty confident in, and say that I think my readers in general would be inclined to say that the story content (Rinoa and Squall having a meaningful conversation) is more important to giving FF8 its 'best foot forward' than the gameplay content (never finding or using the Phoenix Pinion). But, well, that's partly because y'all are not in my head, playing the game. I'm the one directly engaging with the mechanics and the systems of this incredibly abstruse but also possibly really deep game and trying to make it work. I'm the one who's collecting GFs and clicking buttons and battle, and the divide between "the story is really good" and "the gameplay is really frustrating" is a major subject of my conflicted thoughts on this game, so trying to figure out how to make its gameplay right for me, if I can, is complicated but also something I need to do if I'm going to spend another 10-20 hours in this game.
Yeah this is about what I figured, and is why I'll reiterate what I said on discord; my vote is just crack out a save editor. This isn't a challenge run. You're not trying to clear some standard of execution for play, you're here to do an LP of the game to provide your thoughts on it. You did the work of reloading a save to get Leviathan already, this isn't a cheat to get something that's unearned - if the completionist urge is burdening you, I think it's right and good to satiate it by whatever means are sufficiently convenient.

Hell, if nothing else, "FF8 is the first time the series was laborious enough with its navigation, quest design, and menu tedium that I gave in to the urge to use a save editor to avoid backtracking again for a thing" is something you can talk about in the final accounting.
 
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sourceforge.net

Hyne

Download Hyne for free. Final Fantasy VIII Save Editor. Hyne is a save game editor for Final Fantasy VIII. This is the most powerful save game editor for Final Fantasy VIII!

First result in google, first upload in 2012.

I'm just amused that due to the (understandable) name of the save editor, Omicron using it would mean he has essentially sought divine intervention from the god of the setting, making him implicit in the Moonspiracy.
 
I'll add my vote for team "just use the save editor". I'm here for your experience, Omicron, and while the alternate takes can offer valuable insight and interesting information (like the music performance consequences), pixelhunting nonsense designed to sell strategy guides can go hang. You did the work, you got the Leviathan, not continuing from that save is understandable human error.
 
Taking a brief détour from this, New Frame Plus has released a new video on Final Fantasy VI.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6rtehAI1HE

If you'll recall, the FFV video took more than a year to make, and was less than twenty minutes long. This video took half as long to make and is 50% longer.

The FFV curse is real, gamers.

EDIT: Hey, why didn't I get an alert for someone having already posted in my thread today??
 
Unrelated to discussions of save files and save editing and Leviathans, hey let's jump back two games:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6rtehAI1HE
That came out a lot faster than I expected, that's for sure.


Heh, beat me to it. I've fallen behind the LP a bit due to a vacation, but this came across my Youtube feed this morning. Dan brings up here something I remember Omi also mentioning in the LP, but the decision to use full-size battle sprites for everything is such an obvious winner in hindsight that I'm kind of puzzled they basically went back to the split for the lego block field models in FFVII.
 
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I can't believe Omi would just post the same video right after me to steal all my internet points, truly we have a monstrous tyrant in charge of this LP thread😔
Heh, beat me to it. I've fallen behind the LP a bit due to a vacation, but this came across my Youtube feed this morning. Dan brings up here something I remember Omi also mentioning in the LP, but the decision to use full-size battle sprites for everything is such an obvious winner in hindsight that I'm kind of puzzled they basically went back to the split for the lego block field models in FFVII.
My assumption is it was just some level of hardware limitation/being new to playing with 3D modeling compared to spritework. After all, FFVII is the only game to "regress" in such a fashion where it has the different overworld/map models and combat models, FFVIII is right back to using the same models for both, and as far as I know that's the standard for the rest of the series from there on out.
 
I'll add my vote for team "just use the save editor". I'm here for your experience, Omicron, and while the alternate takes can offer valuable insight and interesting information (like the music performance consequences), pixelhunting nonsense designed to sell strategy guides can go hang. You did the work, you got the Leviathan, not continuing from that save is understandable human error.

Way I look at it, if you played the game for hours without noticing you didn't have the summon, it wouldn't seem to be especially critical to how you're playing. A save-game edit to get it would be fine too, if @Omicron wants to go that route, but as far as I am concerned it doesn't really seem like it has impacted gameplay to not have it.
 
So, on translating the Balamb visit, there's relatively little to note, since there's not that much dialogue involved in that sequence. The important dialogue with Fuijin and Raijin is pretty much the same.

That being said, I tried out the Hyne save editor that the thread suggested, and there's a good deal of spoilers there, the most notable being revealing which GF are available when one goes to edit them in.
 
Easiest option: Omi continues playing the game as if nothing happened, missed content be damned.

Completionist option: Omi either reloads or edits the save to gain the missing GF.

Nuclear option: Omi quits the LP without telling us, but continues to provide full updates based entirely on his own theories and ideas and waits to see how long until everyone catches on.
 
Someone only following in Reader mode: "I don't know how this thread turned into a FF8 divergence fic, but fuck I'm so in."
 
Easiest option: Omi continues playing the game as if nothing happened, missed content be damned.

Completionist option: Omi either reloads or edits the save to gain the missing GF.

Nuclear option: Omi quits the LP without telling us, but continues to provide full updates based entirely on his own theories and ideas and waits to see how long until everyone catches on.
In the end, I followed wise advice from the thread and both took a shot at save editing and took a break from the game. This ended up easier than expected. Updates should resume soon!

Someone only following in Reader mode: "I don't know how this thread turned into a FF8 divergence fic, but fuck I'm so in."
and you know it would be the best ff8 fanfic you ever read
 
Final Fantasy 8 turned out to be about [Edit: un]dead lesbians all along!

Squall: ... (Well at least it's not another case of a complex political situation being abandoned in favour of an apocalypse.)
 
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