21stCentury
Let's get down to bismuth
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I made a bad joke here but it wasnt good enough.
Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Playing: Final Fantasy IX]
- Thread starter Omicron
- Start date
- Let's Play
"All the working men in this town were sent off to war. The only ones still left in town are old people, children, chocobos, dogs, and cats."
It's a little awkwardly phrased, but I think Laguna is saying that the only men still in town are elderly, children, and animals.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Unfortunately, any mascot character created after 2011 has a roughly 40% of secretly being evil, so CMCBPS has become a depressingly common malady amongst us nerds.
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- Location
- Italy
Ff8 is clearly showing that all an authoritarian government needs to succeed is a hot, tall, dommy Mommy as dictator.
And to be fair if I was a Galbadia citizen I'd dust off my jackboots this moment ngl.
And to be fair if I was a Galbadia citizen I'd dust off my jackboots this moment ngl.
- Location
- Singapore
- Pronouns
- Singular They
Something I should mention about the Japanese script site is the "side dialogue" sections end in Deling City, and we've seen all of it so far as we went through Disc 1. So at a glance, the script site no longer has side dialogue.
However, going through these sections in the MSQ pages, I'm seeing the dialogue bits that seem like they would be side dialogue. So I get the impression the side dialogue is now included in what would otherwise be the MSQ bits, and the site author never got around to separating it out to its own section. Examples are the conversations with the people of WInhill, as well as the loitering Galbadian soldiers.
I don't know if this is going to be the case continuing forward, or if eventually no more side dialogue will be recorded.
This is entirely on the English translation. As @Egleris notes, the Italian translation has Ellone speak in relatively simple vocabulary, but grammatically and phonetically standard.
This is distinct from the children in Timber who also use baby-talk in English, but are clearly slurring words and lisping in Japanese too. So we already have examples of when baby-talk should be used in translation, and Ellone's dialogue here is not it.
Hence all the excitement among FFXIV players when Gaia was talking about the "fairies" she kept hearing in her childhood. Of course, those fairies were entirely different, but the term used was definitely a reference.
For clarification, the word used for "working men" is 働き盛りの男 ("hataraki zagari no otoko"). "Hataraki" does mean "working", and "zagari" (technically "sagari" if written by itself) is "peak" or "prime", like "prime of one's life". So it's more "men who are in the prime of their working life"; I think "working men" is close enough, but personally I agree with the existing English term "able-bodied men". Not as literal a translation, but probably conveys the idea better.
Laguna's listing of the remaining inhabitants of Winhill is a single no-punctuation rattling off in Japanese. Adding punctuation for readability here, he says "Old men, old women, boys, girls, chocobos, dogs, cats". Apart from the Rap God way Laguna recites the list, it indeed does not mention any women who are not old nor children. It's weird, because Laguna specifically says "working/able-bodied men" as the conscripted, so there's no indication Galbadia took the women as well.
Although come to think of it, given the comments about Esthar kidnapping girls, maybe all the women have already been taken by Esthar before Galbadia sent in the troops to allegedly keep the peace? Which is a bit horrifying. And probably not the case, since surely Laguna would have mentioned that to Kiros in this dialogue.
Amusingly, Laguna's "Alright!" in Japanese is "GOAL IN". I would not have been surprised if it was just "goal", as in "we've reached the goal", but Laguna definitely says "in", so he's just yelling whatever celebratory phrases that come to his impulsive mind.
Not only is Squall in his old clothes, the clothes are free of any large holes from the huge ice spike. So there's apparently a tailor on staff in this prison.
The Japanese name for this guy is "Guy Who Gives A Bad Feeling" (いやな感じのヤツ). No, I don't know what significance that has. I suppose "Mean Guy" works as well.
Something I'm still a bit unclear about: how was the Gateway Team captured? Did they just sit in the Gateway while Squall, Irvine, and Rinoa battled Edea, and then surrendered when the soldiers did the inevitable post-incident security sweep? And then Rinoa was tossed in together with them, for some reason, but not Irvine.
I admit this is giving me impressions of FFIV conveniently making characters unavailable due to plot stuff, to keep the number of party members present coincidentally the max party size.
Kiros does use "a game" in Japanese too. Or more specifically ごっこ, "gokko", which has connotations of "playing pretend".
Yeah, it's one of those cases where the literal meaning of the Japanese line is "The president is no longer here", but everyone knows it's a common euphemism for "dead". I have no idea why the English translation uses "no longer in charge".
EDIT: I missed this one:
The Japanese text says 女の子, which taken literally means "girl child", so I would have assumed it meant "little girl" too, like Laguna says in English. But the term has also been used to just mean "girls", including the encompassing nature of that word to mean anything from children to grown women (eg "girls' night out").
So "girls" would probably have been the safest translation choice, rather than adding "little" or saying "woman". Without further context, there's no way to be certain.
However, going through these sections in the MSQ pages, I'm seeing the dialogue bits that seem like they would be side dialogue. So I get the impression the side dialogue is now included in what would otherwise be the MSQ bits, and the site author never got around to separating it out to its own section. Examples are the conversations with the people of WInhill, as well as the loitering Galbadian soldiers.
I don't know if this is going to be the case continuing forward, or if eventually no more side dialogue will be recorded.
This is entirely on the English translation. As @Egleris notes, the Italian translation has Ellone speak in relatively simple vocabulary, but grammatically and phonetically standard.
This is distinct from the children in Timber who also use baby-talk in English, but are clearly slurring words and lisping in Japanese too. So we already have examples of when baby-talk should be used in translation, and Ellone's dialogue here is not it.
Hence all the excitement among FFXIV players when Gaia was talking about the "fairies" she kept hearing in her childhood. Of course, those fairies were entirely different, but the term used was definitely a reference.
For clarification, the word used for "working men" is 働き盛りの男 ("hataraki zagari no otoko"). "Hataraki" does mean "working", and "zagari" (technically "sagari" if written by itself) is "peak" or "prime", like "prime of one's life". So it's more "men who are in the prime of their working life"; I think "working men" is close enough, but personally I agree with the existing English term "able-bodied men". Not as literal a translation, but probably conveys the idea better.
Laguna's listing of the remaining inhabitants of Winhill is a single no-punctuation rattling off in Japanese. Adding punctuation for readability here, he says "Old men, old women, boys, girls, chocobos, dogs, cats". Apart from the Rap God way Laguna recites the list, it indeed does not mention any women who are not old nor children. It's weird, because Laguna specifically says "working/able-bodied men" as the conscripted, so there's no indication Galbadia took the women as well.
Although come to think of it, given the comments about Esthar kidnapping girls, maybe all the women have already been taken by Esthar before Galbadia sent in the troops to allegedly keep the peace? Which is a bit horrifying. And probably not the case, since surely Laguna would have mentioned that to Kiros in this dialogue.
Amusingly, Laguna's "Alright!" in Japanese is "GOAL IN". I would not have been surprised if it was just "goal", as in "we've reached the goal", but Laguna definitely says "in", so he's just yelling whatever celebratory phrases that come to his impulsive mind.
Not only is Squall in his old clothes, the clothes are free of any large holes from the huge ice spike. So there's apparently a tailor on staff in this prison.
The Japanese name for this guy is "Guy Who Gives A Bad Feeling" (いやな感じのヤツ). No, I don't know what significance that has. I suppose "Mean Guy" works as well.
Something I'm still a bit unclear about: how was the Gateway Team captured? Did they just sit in the Gateway while Squall, Irvine, and Rinoa battled Edea, and then surrendered when the soldiers did the inevitable post-incident security sweep? And then Rinoa was tossed in together with them, for some reason, but not Irvine.
I admit this is giving me impressions of FFIV conveniently making characters unavailable due to plot stuff, to keep the number of party members present coincidentally the max party size.
Kiros does use "a game" in Japanese too. Or more specifically ごっこ, "gokko", which has connotations of "playing pretend".
Yeah, it's one of those cases where the literal meaning of the Japanese line is "The president is no longer here", but everyone knows it's a common euphemism for "dead". I have no idea why the English translation uses "no longer in charge".
EDIT: I missed this one:
The Japanese text says 女の子, which taken literally means "girl child", so I would have assumed it meant "little girl" too, like Laguna says in English. But the term has also been used to just mean "girls", including the encompassing nature of that word to mean anything from children to grown women (eg "girls' night out").
So "girls" would probably have been the safest translation choice, rather than adding "little" or saying "woman". Without further context, there's no way to be certain.
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- Pronouns
- Him/He
It's kinda hard not to have an ironic thought about someone who's chosen title is 'President for Life' when they end up no longer president because they no longer meet the requirements that they set out for the position.
If only he had decided he was their forever president, or the president of galbania as long as the nation stands, he might be better off!
Egleris
Vagrant Dragon
- Location
- Italy
Surely, this would be Emperor Mateus II? Right?
ZerbanDaGreat
Daemon Noble of D E M O G R A P H I C S
- Pronouns
- They/them
A lot of JRPGs would get very interesting very quickly if the party's bodies could withstand getting nuked by Firagas and shit significantly better than their clothes.
The rejected localisation, "Man With Atrocious Vibes" was sadly too far ahead of its time...
- Location
- Albion
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Did another Mateus conquer hell before him?
21stCentury
Let's get down to bismuth
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Are the events of FFII Soul of Rebirth discussable here, btw❓
- Location
- Texas
Could be worse, what if they pulled inspiration from Springtime for Hitler?
Had to go look at the concept art and character models for a proper look, but I think you hit it spot on. I'm simultaneously getting hints of Michael Jackson and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, somehow. Those "bangs" would drive me nuts. Can't seem to pull any good pictures for everyone to look at though, sorry.
Gotta love Japan's insistence on not giving a straightforward answer. All about that implicit vs explicit communication method. I've heard about a guy who was asked "Do you have any pets?" and instead of saying "No," he said "Maybe my cat is dead."
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Morganite
Happiness is a large book.
- Location
- Dynamis - Firefly Alley
Er, what? What is this in reference to?
So I abruptly found myself very frustrated with the whole thing after reading this and thinking about it. Because in books I hadn't *read* when the game originally came out (and some may not have been released yet), one of the top reasons to hire mercenaries is the situation where you've got an objective, and you've got people, but you don't have the expertise to get the objective done with the people you've got... so you hire on some officers.
And on some scales this seems very much like that! The SeeDs probably could help them make better plans, it just... doesn't happen.
Selphie (the only person who would do it): *wiggles her hips*
Galbadia Garden: *does nothing*
Selphie: What a meaningful conversation!
Everyone else: ???
So a while back in the 'posts I was catching up on', everyone talked about the translation using 'sorceress' instead of 'witch'.
This is the part that makes me really like 'sorceress'. Maybe it sounds less sinister, but it's more grand in return, and they are definitely going for grand here.
Insert fan comic about her trying to walk out but that stupid thing on her back keeps getting caught on the bars here.
Mana Khemia has something similar, where swapping characters in and out forms a major part of the combat mechanics.
Atelier Ryza doesn't have anything like that, but it gives full XP to all party members, and shows everyone in 'wow, that was a tough fight' type cutscenes, so my interpretation is that whoever isn't in the active party is keeping the main party from getting flanked or something like that.
How's that work though? We can't ignore the monsters, they get up in our face. Don't the monsters ever just directly attack them?
... I suppose the distinction could be that they just kill monsters that bother them while Laguna goes out looking for trouble, but the dialogue comes across more as 'Nah man, the monsters stay in their corner and we stay in ours, we cool'.
So this is probably a good time to mention that younger me though that Kiros' victory animation was just about the coolest thing ever.
... Younger me was a lot more dubious of his new clothes though.
Oh god, now I'm imagining him using Metal Wolf Chaos lines. "Because I'm the President for life of the United States of Galbadia!"
Seems like a lot of games have a hard time balancing things when they shrink the party. I'm still a little salty about how Ar tonelico 2 handled it. The way the game works, combat is basically miserable if you don't have at least one Reyvateil (the really short version, 'backline caster') and one vanguard (physical fighter type) to guard them.
Then the game sends you through a sequence with a party consisting of two Reyvateils. Because of how the system works, this deprives you of all your combat tools, so the battles have to be so easy that you can't really lose, but even then they're still slow and boring. But the thing is? One of them carries a sword and is supposed to be pretty good at using it. But did they have her get in front and show it off for a while when it would be handy, and make the segment more interesting on a gameplay level? Of course not.
-Morgan.
- Pronouns
- They/Them/She/Her
...It occurs to me...Adloquium said:
[checks back]
Yeah, one of the Esthar Soldier enemies in a previous update had the description "A cyborg in the form of an Esthar soldier, but far stronger. It only uses physical attacks.".
So Esthar is maybe conducting mass kidnappings, looking for Sorceress candidates. Presumably if they've found any candidates among their kidnapees, they're in a minority, being rare. Or maybe there are actually lots of candidates, but they vary in quality, somehow, and since there appears to be a finite about of Sorceressness to go around, Esthar wants to concentrate on the best one(s). Either way, a lot of the people they kidnap won't be viable. ...For their primary intended use.
And Esthar makes cyborg soldiers it doesn't give guns to to send into the thick of battle.
Exactly how many of those cyborgs, I'm now wondering, volunteered for the cyberware?
...And they could do the same with their own population, actually. Maybe not random people off the street, but perhaps petty criminals get a trip to the surgeon and then the penal legions.
[shrugs] Though, then again, it's not like, IIRC, we know much about Esthar's government at this time. Sure, they're at war with Galbadia, but Galbadia was and is not exactly a beacon of justice and freedom. It's quite possible Esthar isn't kidnapping people at all; I don't recall any solid evidence of it.
Wouldn't that imply "Yes", not "No"?Noxlux013 said:
I will copy the post I have made in the spoiler thread about this point (To put context, someone asked me why I was telling Omicron to wait before watching the french version because it's spoiling something) :
If you heard something strange about FF8 translation, it's always the french translation. =□_ (O) ALWAYS HAS BEEN.
deadcrystal
Slaaneshi Cultist
- Location
- The Warp
Notably the vibe is one where the soldiers seem to view civilians as an obstacle to their work rather than the reason for it in the first place. Like, it's resentment towards the populace.
something something, first place the empire conquers is itself, something something.
Notably they don't get much in the way of detail. They can't actually tell what the SeeD kids are thinking at them, just a vague impression of 'presence' and 'activity'. Makes sense they'd call them fairies really, they might be able to tell that something happening makes the 'fairies' agitated, but not exactly what or why.
It is cool to note that Laguna is genuinely hyped about Julia finding a relationship even if it's not with him. He's an earnest well meaning goober. An erratic goober who gets lost, barely pays attention to what other people says, and throws his friends off cliffs and then seconds later thinks his friends are brave for jumping, but still, a goober.
On the one hand, exoticizing the ethnic minority, on the other hand, character design is cool as shit. Like, he uses twin punch-daggers and has a unique design, whereas Laguna is just wearing trousers, a shirt, and a fucking denim jacket. And his weapon is just A Gun.
This is something of a mechanics failure that not just FF8 suffers from, where designers give you gameplay options, but then punishes you for even trying them out. Four command slots are tight, and you're basically always going to have Attack, Draw, and Magic, leaving the last slot for either Item or GF. Some of the command possibilities that GFs give you are genuinely interesting, but sacrificing your default four? Most players won't be willing to give one up even for trial purposes.
Woolie has discussed this before when it comes to fighting games with purchasable moves, in that they should let you refund them for free so you have the flexibility to try different builds and strategies so you get to learn what works for you and why, and I feel the same applies here.
Political prisoners of an authoritarian, over the top regime. Wasting a bunch of money and resources on an 'inescapable' prison to salve the egos of a fascistic regime seems like exactly the sort of thing the Galbadians would pull tbh. If Saudi Arabia can (attempt) to build a 110 mile long city as an asinine vanity project, then Deling can have a stupid elaborate super-prison for political prisoners.
I'd note how Seifer has fallen into a kind of...I'd call it storybook thinking? He is 'The Sorceress' Knight', a hero fighting the villainous mercenaries who kill for money, and refused him promotions because he disobeyed orders to fight The Enemy, which would have made his team Heroes. Like, he's ignoring his own reasons a bit, in that going rogue in Dollet was really more about getting in a fight, but the way that the SeeDs behaved in Dollet...he's not wrong in thinking it hardly made the Garden look like The Good Guys.
I do like here that there is no triumphant option where Squall resists the torture, proving his moral character. The two options are 'The torture broke him, so he tries to bait them into killing him to escape it' and 'The torture broke him, so he makes anything he can think of up to get them to stop'.
She's a genki girl character, very high energy, social, wants to do special school events (like they're high school students, not killers for hire), so the expectation is that she would have a bleeding heart, especially for animals. But nope. She is a trained mercenary.
If they're normally imprisoning political prisoners, it does make sense they don't really know how to deal with prisoners who are an actual threat, especially when the place is full of guards and military equipment.
Diegetically I think it's just inside the spells, but I think this can be rationalised as Quistis and Selphie both only using magic as a supplement, and needing the weapons to defend themselves whilst using it.
Right there with you. So many times during the game I've thought 'The writers can't do this now, this is illegal'
Chivalric romance? Courtly love? (ain't an expert, but they don't tend to end well to the knight, do they?)
- Location
- Lansing, MI
I'm remembering back in the Laguna scene where we're first introduced to Julia, there was the jealous officer lurking around that was ticked off that she was paying attention to Laguna, instead of him, and commented about sending them off on a suicide mission. Then, we next see the group at the Centra ruins, and someone brought it up and commented that "Well, I guess he actually had the authority to do that".
Turns out that the jealous douche was Rinoa's dad! And he appears to have pulled off a 100% successful Uriah gambit, which I didn't really expect!
They're the female lead and a hot dominatrix, it doesn't surprise me that other ladies get lost in the shuffle, even though Selphie is The Best.
Mildly autistic genki girl? If I'm talking to someone who isn't steeped in nerd circles, maybe something along the lines of "cheerful girl with her head in the clouds and no brain/mouth filter".
Um, I may be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure feeding the interrogator a line of bullshit instead of insulting him is an immediate SeeD rank-down on your next paycheck.
SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
Omni's stated several times that money hasn't mattered much in this game so it probably doesn't mean anything either way.
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Even if money did matter and this does rank you down... well, the maximum SeeD Rank is 31 (or A, since it goes from 30 to that). There are 30 free, infinitely repeatable tests with zero consequences for failure consisting entirely of ten True or False questions that can all be taken from the menu at any time, and success increases your SeeD rank by 1.
So, suffice to say, SeeD Rank is a neat idea with how little things on missions can actively change it up or down... but overall, it really doesn't matter beyond flavor. I can't speak for Omi, but I currently have something like 200,000 gil bouncing around in my back pocket and that's without bothering with things like "spend a chunk of money on Tents so the entire party has +3000 Max HP for the rest of the game".
So, suffice to say, SeeD Rank is a neat idea with how little things on missions can actively change it up or down... but overall, it really doesn't matter beyond flavor. I can't speak for Omi, but I currently have something like 200,000 gil bouncing around in my back pocket and that's without bothering with things like "spend a chunk of money on Tents so the entire party has +3000 Max HP for the rest of the game".
Lying in this section also reduces the help you get from the Moombas (the lion-like beings). They can give valuable items or create shortcuts, but they only appear if you stand your ground, are brave, and fight for what is just. If you lack courage, lie, or submit to authority, according to my guide book, they won't appear.
Ah yes.
"Fighting for what is just" and "not submitting to authority."
These are definitely things being a diehard SeeD, a merc-for-hire where one of the requirements to pass their initiation exam is to obey your CO unflinchingly even when their orders go against your stated objectives, represents. Definitely.
Edit: Oh, and "standing your ground" is a bit of a hoot, too, considering the events of the Dollet sequence end with you leaving them to rot.
Edit 2: That's not to say these aren't qualities Squall and the party might have... though if they do they haven't demonstrated much other than maybe bravery... but, like. These aren't qualities SeeDs as trained by the Gardens have that we've seen, and in fact they're ones that SeeDs are strongly discouraged from having simply due to the nature of their training and profession. They're child soldier mercs trained to follow orders to the letter and no further. "Fighting for what's just" and "standing your ground" don't come into it at any point.
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