Dammit I knew I was forgetting something, I ummed and aahed over whether to describe Crisis Core's version of this scene I forgot to bring up Last Order again. You remember how we previously talked about how it's probably not canon and it was handwaved as 'what the Turks think happened'?
Last Order ends on the scene in the pickup truck, with POV of a Shinra sniper drawing a bead on Cloud in the oncoming truck against orders to wait for the Turks. Zack, happening to stand up and look over the cab, is able to spot the offscreen sniper off in the distance, and dive in front of Cloud yelling for him to run. The OVA then cuts to black with a singular, high-calibre gunshot.
So basically on top of the 'Sephiroth jumps in the lifestream for no reason' thing, the OVA also had Zack get domed by a sniper five minutes early, as presumably the truck driver proceeded to panic like a GTA NPC and floor it the rest of the way to Midgar. Bizarre.
EDIT: It also has Tifa wake up and see Cloud unmasked in the Nibelheim Reactor, another massive mark against it having any basis in canon. However it also changes the Sephiroth impalement scene to have Sephiroth dangling Cloud over the edge of the Jenova containment unit's walkway, with Cloud subsequently dragging himself down the blade in order to get his footing on the walkway, which subsequently gives him ample leverage to throw Sephiroth at the wall. Which is kind of funny that that of all things is what they change in a way that makes sense.
I'll also add that getting Cloud's level 4 limit break (AND his ultimate weapon) now involves a pretty sick one on one duel with Zack's ghost atop the hill where he died.
Last Order shows the least, with the Turks as the ones sent to take in Zack and Cloud, and attempting to snipe them from their helicoptor. The story cuts to black with Zack diving in front of them.
This is my least favorite version, because it features the re-appearance of the Murder Turks, who we haven't seen since Disc 1 of FF7.
Edit: or I could have misinterpreted things, and the army jumps the gun with the Turks on their way. Either way, the point is that this is closer to the original in that "Zack gets pasted without a chance to fight back", but in a less satisfying way.
Crisis Core features this as Zack's last hurrah. There's a jurisdiction fight between the Army (who want Zack dead under the orders of Hojo) and the Turks (who are friends of Zack and are going rogue to try to find him first). Zack's death is not a matter of cutscene mode turning on, but rather running headlong into an army of Shinra troopers and getting worn down from how many corpses they threw at him. There are reasons to like this version, but as I stated earlier it breaks the "No last words" theme that the original game had. Still, the game plays it's tragedy so well that Tabata would repeat this beat in Type-0 with it's cast almost to the letter.
Remake continues on from Crisis Core's version of events, but in it... Zack just wins. "Huh, was that all of them." It's almost a comedic end to one of the darkest sequences in the game.
So basically on top of the 'Sephiroth jumps in the lifestream for no reason' thing, the OVA also had Zack get domed by a sniper five minutes early, as presumably the truck driver proceeded to panic like a GTA NPC and floor it the rest of the way to Midgar. Bizarre.
I mean... props to the driver in that case, apparently escaping with a comotose Cloud while under sniper fire, guy must have really floored it.
Or it's Just Another Tuesday In Midgar Territory, either or. FFVII already has some of that cyberpunk inspiration, might as well throw in the side of "people so jaded that their passengers getting sniped is a normal occurrence".
Also it's kinda funny how despite the setting's modern aesthetic, 'mercenaries' is used with the same connotation as 'adventurer' in fantasy, as some kind of jack-of-all-trade who does useful jobs for people, rather than its real world meaning of 'I wanted to do more war crimes in the developing world than my national military would allow so I had to go private,' lmao. I guess the existence of monsters shapes that kind of expectation.
I wonder if it's like how Nintendo referred to Samus Aran for decades as a "bounty hunter", but then would freak out anytime pitched a game where she does some actual bounty hunting beyond incidentally killing a few thousand Space Pirates anytime she makes planetfall. I think someone finally explained to them that bounty hunter meant specifically tracking down apprehending wanted criminals and not "contract freelance adventurer".
The Underwater Reactor is such a fun setpiece on so many levels. I love aquatic/undersea settings of all stripes, and it's a nice change of pace to go back to something more industrial after hoofing it around caves and mysterious ruins in the wilderness for what feels like forever. I love callbacks to old minor characters, especially ones that have actual payoff in the narrative. And I ESPECIALLY love any gameplay bit that lets you listen to enemies as they talk about how cool and badass your unstoppable onslaught is like the Halberd's crew in Metaknight's Revenge, or the Ubiquitous Panicking Goons of the Arkham Batman games. The power loader bossfight is an obvious nod to Aliens, but I wonder if this whole chunk of game might be a subtle nod the the other Cameron wierd-alien-industrial-adventure-thriller, The Abyss?
So, if Emerald Weapon is part of the planet's self defense system, isnt attacking any people, and wont even attack the party or chase them down or do anything but respond when they attack it...
I thought this was the name of the sub, but apparently this is a Shinra aircraft, and the name comes from a Spanish town, Guernica, that was the first target of aerial bombardment by Germany in WW2.
There is something hilariously fucked up about calling Shinra's big plane by the name of one of the most infamous historical bombings on record.
Although as a correction, Guernica wasn't bombed during WW2, and saying it was bombed by the Germans is correct but misleading; the bombing occurred during the Spanish Civil War at the behest of the Spanish Fascists under Franco. It's an important historical event because it was basically the first mass bombing of civilians using aircraft, and would foreshadow the enormous death toll of "strategic bombing" a few years later.
You mentioned, I believe, that the Materia system made it incredibly easy for all of the party members to feel similar. Is this still a problem for you or have they settled into defined roles?
Eeeh. Yuffie has a higher magic stat, so I gave her more magic, including Enemy Skill and also Sense, so she's the party's Smart Girl character, while Cloud has good overall stats and HP, so I gave him the Cover-Counter Attack combo, and Tifa has very high physical attack, so she has Deathblow. So my characters have some level of difference and individual roles.
With that said, everyone has a Restore + All pair because why would they not along with two Summon Materia for encounter clearing and high damage against boss, because there's no reason for them not to have them, and then I throw in individual Materia like Revive or Heal wherever they'll fit.
Character customization is ultimately more determined by gear and Materia slots and how many are linked or not than by anything else. I want to have Ultima on someone, and if it's on Yuffie it's ideal because she has the highest Magic stat, but ultimately it doesn't matter.
Yeah that reminds me @Omicron — remember that earlier discussion about how the other party member limit breaks were more realistic and nonmagical than Supersoldier Cloud's?
I was fully expecting this to be the case - I went in with enough knowledge regarding Zack's existence that, while keeping an open mind, I'd assumed that the voice in Cloud's head was Zack acting as a supportive presence.
But... I don't find anything that backs this up? Advent Children gave me the impression that FF7 would deal more in "spirits," in the dead reaching from the Lifestream, but barring further plot developments, looking at the game as it is now, "dead" seems to pretty much mean dead. The only lingering souls we encounter are the Ancients and the angry ghosts of the wrathful dead turned to monsters like the Gi. There's no sign that Cloud and Aerith will share a meaningful last moment together the way they do in Advent Children. I had thought that the process by which Cloud would displace Zack in his memories would involve something mystical, a kind of magical transfer by which he actually absorbed Zack's memories, but so far, as presented in the game, the process appears to have occurred entirely on Cloud's end, with his Jenova-damaged brain dealing with his trauma by editing things freely and putting himself in Zack's place. There are a couple moments in the Nibelheim Flashback where Sephiroth and 'Cloud' are alone together, and it's unclear at present whether in the actual past this was Sephiroth and Soldier!Cloud and Zack wasn't present in those scenes, or whether Sephiroth, Soldier!Cloud and Zack were all present and Cloud just gave himself Zack's role and edited the scene down to two people instead of three, or whether that was Sephiroth and Zack and those memories were somehow transferred to Cloud's mind... But there's no real indication that the latter occurred, at this stage.
So unless we find out that there were further magical shenanigans and Zack's soul stuck around in Cloud's mind instead of joining the Lifestream, at present I don't think I can say he was the Backseater. I think there's a more likely candidate. To an extent, the Backseater just seems to be an aborted plot thread, which never ended up going anywhere, but to the extent that we can see it later in the game, there's actually a character we've met who 1) exists inside Cloud's mind, 2) knows about his repressed memories, 3) tries to help nudge him towards the truth about his past on several occasions because he 4) very clearly cares about him and feels sad for him and his damaged psyche, but it's not Zack...
You won't need to. With proper strategies and careful Materia allocation, you should be able to defeat everything in the game with a team sporting levels between 50 and 60. Of course, higher levels make things easier... but only to a point, and mostly because of HP increase than for any other reason.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that getting that result means he refused to engage with what has to be a gimmick fight, and just brute forced it. Note, still not someone who's played the game, just making obvious inferences based on it being a superboss.
Mallory actually went 0-3 against Mount Everest. All three expeditions failed to reach the summit, and the last time, well, it took 75 years to find his body, but maybe he made it to the top first.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that getting that result means he refused to engage with what has to be a gimmick fight, and just brute forced it. Note, still not someone who's played the game, just making obvious inferences based on it being a superboss.
Emerald isn't a gimmick fight, it just has a gimmick attack. It's totally able to just Emerald Shoot all the party to death, like what happened to Omi, even without needing to put out its gimmick attack.
Emerald isn't a gimmick fight, it just has a gimmick attack. It's totally able to just Emerald Shoot all the party to death, like what happened to Omi, even without needing to put out its gimmick attack.
Huh. My understanding of a gimmick fight is one where it responds in particular AI manipulating ways to specific actions, where in this case I'd expect there to be some sequence of actions you can take that replaces Emerald Shoot with weaker options while you're on it, each of which gives you hints to which the next is, and the first one having a hint somewhere in the overworld/cities, and ends in it dieing. Because at a million health, I'm pretty sure even the strongest, once per fight summon in the game doesn't hit 200000, while the speed at which it uses Emerald Shoot is enough that I'd expect it to take at least level 75 to survive it long enough to wear it down, even with good normal strategizing, but it can apparently be done at 50?
Most of the Weapons bear strong resemblances to various mecha from the Mobile Suit Gundam franchise, with Emerald taking its look from the mobile armor Neue Ziel from Mobile Suit Gundam: 0083. If you don't remember, it's the one were Anavel Gato says "Solomon I have returned" and then nukes the Federation navy.
The Sapphire Weapon concept art shows that prior to its de-craniumization by the Junon Cannon, it took its inspiration from the Doggoria from Victory Gundam.
The Ultima Weapon went through several designs where it was initially named Onyx Weapon, but once granted its upgrade to Ultimate status, it evolved into a centaur-like appearance very much like the Ultimate Gundam (later Devil Gundam) from G Gundam.
Most of the Weapons bear strong resemblances to various mecha from the Mobile Suit Gundam franchise, with Emerald taking its look from the mobile armor Neue Ziel from Mobile Suit Gundam: 0083. If you don't remember, it's the one were Anavel Gato says "Solomon I have returned" and then nukes the Federation navy.
The Sapphire Weapon concept art shows that prior to its de-craniumization by the Junon Cannon, it bore a passing resemblance to the Doggoria from Victory Gundam.
The Ultimate Weapon went through several designs, initially named Onyx Weapon, but once granted its upgrade to Ultimate status, it evolved into a centaur-like design very much like the Ultimate Gundam (later Devil Gundam) from G Gundam.
Wikia links are a pain in the ass sometimes. I've edited them to hopefully work but if they continue to misbehave just look up the Doggoria and Ultimate Gundam and you'll see the resemblance.
My understanding of a gimmick fight is one where it responds in particular AI manipulating ways to specific actions, where in this case I'd expect there to be some sequence of actions you can take that replaces Emerald Shoot with weaker options while you're on it, each of which gives you hints to which the next is, and the first one having a hint somewhere in the overworld/cities, and ends in it dieing.
See, according to this definition, then Emerald Weapon is not a gimmick fight. However, several of the elements of difficulty of its fight can be neutralized with appropriate strategies, and it's AI can be predicted and influenced to a certain extent (although not really neutralized), which you find out with either a guide or trial and error. Some people could say that constitutes a gimmick fight, but it's not what you're describing, I don't think? There's also a number of abilities and effects to which it is especially vulnerable, even if you wouldn't expect it to be. That can also be considered gimmick, but doesn't match your description either.
That entirely depends on how you are measuring "one summon"; certainly "once per fight" isn't a reliable damage output against Emerald Weapon, no matter what you're hitting with. You want abilities that can be used repeatedly, and preferably multi-hit ones. As foamy mentioned, you need to land a bit over one hundred hits by 9k each; if you're hitting for 5k, that's twice as much, two-hundred hits. If you have an attack you can use repeatedly that hits ten times, then two hundred hits means using that particular attack twenty times. Naturally, you'll want many such attacks, and ways to survive to make them land, which is really the difficult thing here.
You need high HP and high defenses, which levels can give you, but levels aren't the only way you can get those. And, as mentioned, you can make it lean on certain attacks over others - and certain defenses are more effective against certain attacks than others. It's a matter of figuring out a combination of strategy and defenses that work well together, and that takes experimentation more than anything.
You won't need to. With proper strategies and careful Materia allocation, you should be able to defeat everything in the game with a team sporting levels between 50 and 60. Of course, higher levels make things easier... but only to a point, and mostly because of HP increase than for any other reason.
Yes, but if you're doing Emerald at that kind of level you're almost certainly going to be grinding for other things or abusing glitches anyway. If I'm gonna grind I'm gonna grind in the battle system.
Huh. My understanding of a gimmick fight is one where it responds in particular AI manipulating ways to specific actions, where in this case I'd expect there to be some sequence of actions you can take that replaces Emerald Shoot with weaker options while you're on it, each of which gives you hints to which the next is, and the first one having a hint somewhere in the overworld/cities, and ends in it dieing. Because at a million health, I'm pretty sure even the strongest, once per fight summon in the game doesn't hit 200000, while the speed at which it uses Emerald Shoot is enough that I'd expect it to take at least level 75 to survive it long enough to wear it down, even with good normal strategizing, but it can apparently be done at 50?
There's zero hints on how to fight Emerald bar one: It is possible to remove the time limit. Personally I didn't bother, though, because I had the firepower.
I would've liked to've used Ultima, but unfortunately Ultima + HP Absorb, which would've made the fight much safer, is glitched and freezes every part of the battle except the timer. Consequently I was using the ultimate summon (and sitting through it's extremely long animation every time, blargh) instead, since it does work with HP Absorb. I had to do some math to see if I could actually get enough casts of it in before the timer ran out; the maximum possible damage for a single cast is 129,987 but I was only getting closer to 100,000 flat. However because -- as evidenced by the fact I had the ultimate summon -- I had tech Omi doesn't, which let me get all ten necessary casts in (which takes approximately fifteen minutes in animation time alone), but in the meanwhile Emerald's counterattacks clocked everybody except the person who had last cast the summon.
I took another run at it today with a slightly different party setup, a bit more Source grinding, and it went much better despite a. me, like an idiot, forgetting to equip a key materia that almost cost me the run and b. Emerald almost managing to interrupt my summon cycle by nuking the party's MP by 400+ points.
This is at least partially because this time I went in to use people's LBs and got roughly 300,000 damage out of those before I started up with the summons. Sped things up a fair bit.
Yes, but it has ways of punishing you for trying to exploit those, too. In principle with careful setup you could just smoke Emerald with simple physical attacks or LBs and have your other party members just be healing donkeys, but that's an endurance fight and you'd need a lot of healing resources to get you through it.
In principle with careful setup you could just smoke Emerald with simple physical attacks or LBs and have your other party members just be healing donkeys, but that's an endurance fight and you'd need a lot of healing resources to get you through it.
I mean, if you decide to make it an endurance fight, you'd prepare accordingly, wouldn't you? That holds true for whichever strategy you decide to employ - it's not like the strategy you imply to have used didn't require large amount of preparation. For one, the ultimate summon isn't exactly laying around, you'd have had to grind for it.
The key to beating a superboss like Emerald is to figure out a strategy and then do the work necessary to get the strategy to work, but there's many possible approaches you can take to Emerald Weapon in particular. It's not a "must do it like this" fight.
Maybe Cid's mission was the first maned flight? I assume there were other attempts, otherwise these people are even crazier, "This is our first rocketry attempt! Let's stick a person on there as well, because Profit, I guess."
