Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Playing: Final Fantasy IX]

I think the expectation was more that you'd keep playing after the end, rather than replay from the start. I forget if it's one of those games where you have to make a separate save before the end, or loading a completed file works, but either way. Beat the final boss then go back and grind up, poke around for hidden items and abilities, chase rumors, play the Gold Saucer for a year straight, and finally take on any optional challenges. A few things are permanently missable but most of the important stuff you can go back for, if you've got the free time of a kid milking every last bit out of one game from Christmas till their next birthday.

If I was a kid when this was new and didn't have any better extreme sports games, I would have at least kept a save around for the snowboarding.
At the least, I'm pretty sure FFVII doesn't have any "point of no return" save points, so yeah it's entirely possible to beat the final boss and then go back spending a few dozen hours doing sidequests or whatever.

Now granted, "point of no return" and "point after which Major Plot Shit screws up the world" can be completely separate things (see: FFII and the Emperor's Tornado straight up destroying half the towns on the world map), and I can't actually recall if FFVII has anything like that incoming, so... something to keep in mind. After all, we've already had one town get Ultima Weapon'd.
 
At the least, I'm pretty sure FFVII doesn't have any "point of no return" save points, so yeah it's entirely possible to beat the final boss and then go back spending a few dozen hours doing sidequests or whatever.

Got a flashback to the Xbox platformer Voodoo Vince, where continuing the game after completing it just leaves you stuck replaying the final level over and over again (not that there's much to go back to other levels for, but still)
 
At the least, I'm pretty sure FFVII doesn't have any "point of no return" save points, so yeah it's entirely possible to beat the final boss and then go back spending a few dozen hours doing sidequests or whatever.
It does, but only because of a glitch in the last dungeon. Don't remember the details off the top of my head, but I think it's sometimes recommended that you immediately exit the final dungeon and make another save before going back in.

Edit: Looking it up to double check, it looks like there is also a genuine point of no return near the end of the final dungeon, but further details are spoilers.
 
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Omicron: "The time has come to take on WEAPON!"
*beat*
Omicron: "Damn, weapon got hands."

This amused me, because come FFXIV and Emerald Weapon really does have hands. Like eight of them, all ready to pound you to pulp.

But he was nowhere to be found. Instead, I found you, collapsed inside. I felt saving you was far more important than going after Sephiroth. There were several others that were still alive inside, but I was only able to save you.

Minor weirdness with the translation: the Japanese script just says there were "others" alive in the area, without any comment on the number. So the word "several" is something the translator put in, implying more than just Cloud and Zack.

This letter is weird; part of it is written as if it were written directly after the events of the Nibelheim Incident, part of it as if it were written later, and while it clarifies some aspects of Tifa's survival, not all. Zangan… Rescued her from the reactor, stabilized her with Cure (hey, magic used in the narrative! At last!), then left to Midgar to find a doctor, and then… What? Tifa woke up, he wasn't there, so she just… Left? Also to Midgar? And Zangan came back to Nibelheim and couldn't find Tifa anywhere? What's the time frame here? He says "several years have passed." I'm honestly more confused than I was before reading this. My best guess is that the letter was written on two separate occasions - one after the Nibelheim Incident, left behind as an explanation to Tifa in case she woke up and Zangan was gone, and another years later when he came back to Nibelheim and decided to add an addendum to the old letter that had never been found in case Tifa came around again.

My interpretation, both from the English translation and the Japanese text, is that this letter was written quite recently, and left in Tifa's house sometime after Shinra rebuilt the village. The stuff from "I remember trying to get people out of the flames" up until "I'm worried about you, but I can't settle down in one place for very long" was describing the events of That Day In Nibelheim, and everything after that is back in the "present day" of Zangan writing that letter, when he visited Nibelheim and found it rebuilt by Shinra.

Again, the translation is wonky, possibly because there was no explicit indicator of tense in the Japanese script. So "I'm worried about you, but I can't settle down in one place for very long" should have been "I was worried about you, but I couldn't settle down in one place for very long". Or, given the context of the rest of the lines, more like "I'm not the type who can settle down in one place for very long".

Thus, the sequence of events when Zangan rescued Tifa was that he carried her down from the Mount Nibel to Nibelheim, casting Cure all the way, and then continued carrying Tifa to Midgar, still casting Cure. Zangan felt the need to emphasize in his letter that he does not like Midgar, but he headed there anyway for Tifa's sake. The line "I didn't like that city, and my Cure spells weren't helping" should be "I didn't like that city, but my Cure spells weren't helping", maybe with a translation-added clarification "so I didn't have a choice".

At Midgar, Zangan left Tifa with a doctor he could trust, and then continued on his journey, hence the "I'm not the type who can settle down etc". Sometime later, perhaps years later, Zangan returned to Nibelheim, saw the Shinra actors pretending to be townspeople, and decided to write that letter and leave it in Tifa's house.

Now I'm curious if the original Japanese/Retranslation mod still have Cure mentioned, or if it's just something this translator slapped in that they thought made sense.

It does, yes. As in specifically the Final Fantasy spell Cure, which has been consistently (throughout all the games) written as "ケアル", pronounced "kearu". (Regular "cure" in katakana would be "キュア", "kyua", like in Pretty Cure.)

So Zangan was explicitly casting the Cure spell on Tifa, and implied to have done so all the way to Midgar.

Driver: "What're you yappin' about? You're still young ain't ya? Young folks should try everything! You gotta pay your dues while you're young. Go out and look for what you really want."
Zack: "Try everything… That's easy for him to say."
[Zack starts doing squats.]
Zack: "HEY! Of course! I got more brains and skill than most other guys! That settles it! I'm gonna become a mercenary! Yeah! Thanks Pops!"

This is actually a little hilarious, because the Japanese script relies on wordplay that simply doesn't work in any other language.

When the driver says "Young folks should try everything", the Japanese text is "何でもやってみろ", "nandemo yattemiro". Which does translate to "try everything", or rather "try anything".

Zack, after pondering this a while, latches on to the first few syllables: "nandemo ya". Which is written as "なんでもや", and he turns it into "なんでも屋", where "屋" is also pronounced "ya" and means "shop" or "store", or even "shopkeeper", like how "plumber" can mean both the business and the person. And being "nandemo ya" is what Zack decides to do.

In other words, the driver tells Zack to "try anything", and Zack promptly decides to open a "Do Anything Business". Hence the driver immediately going "that's not what I said, you idiot".

"Mercenary" kind of fits in that a "do anything" business can be said to be "mercenary". However, your description of "jack of all trades" fits much better. If Zack had survived to Midgar and started that business, he might well have named it Zack Of All Trades.

Soldier: "What do you want to do with him?"
Cloud: "...Ah… ughhhh…"
Commander: "Forget it. Just leave him."
[They leave.]

I… don't buy that? Like, why would they go to the trouble of executing Zack and then decide to just leave Cloud be? Even if they think he's dying, they just finished off the other guy. Even if they think he's basically braindead, he's still a body full of active Jenova cells. Does Hojo not want his escaped experiment? I could buy that he's already dismissed Cloud as a failure, but it's not like they have to go to any extra lengths to catch him, he's right there. Cloud is a total freebie and they leave him just… Because.

Another case of the Japanese text being more terse and implicit than the translator could figure out without context.

The commander says "これはダメだな", "kore wa dame da na", which can mean all sorts of things depending on context. Even narrowing it down to the current situation of whether to execute Cloud, the line could mean either "this here is no good", or "this thing is done for". The translator seems to have gone for the former, as in "it's no good to execute this person, so forget it".

However, I would personally have gone for the latter, where the commander says "this thing" (and the term used is indeed for things, rather than people) is pretty much dead already, so no point wasting bullets. Still a decision born from laziness that eventually causes Shinra problems in the future, but at least it's a plausible motivation.

They're standard Shinra troopers. We annihilate them within moments. The elevator operator is actually still there (I mean, how could she leave) as the elevator finishes going down. If we talk to her, she does her best to not acknowledge us while clearly mourning these two poor morons.

While the English translation has levity where the lift attendant is disappointed at the "two perfectly good men" being killed, the Japanese text also makes her inwardly infuriated that these intruders killed her "fans".

This scene is kind of hard to parse, but… I think what's happening here is that - Cloud has never had motion sickness before, as long as he thought of himself as the cool SOLDIER from his memory who did squats in a running truck. Mind over matter. But now that he knows himself as Cloud, the young grunt from the Nibelheim Incident who was sick in the drive to Nibelheim, this old self briefly asserts itself - the submarine is like the cramped interior of the Shinra metal truck with its shitty suspensions over the rocky Nibel roads. Then Yuffie punches the commands, the sub launches forward, and it passes, he's in the moment, focused on the controls, on piloting this rumbling war machine, and the sickness passes.

One good thing about the Japanese script site (again, spoilers in chapter titles, so Omicron do not click) I've been using is it's essentially a script dump, as in someone going through the files and extracting the script as is. And immense credit to the site owner in formatting it alongside the English text, and adding notes about whether certain lines were cut from the game and such, thus providing greater context.

This means it's fairly easy to see the variations in party dialogue depending on members present. And for some reason, the devs coded this part weirdly.

What happens when you take over the submarine is every member of the party present will freak out over having hijacked a submarine, then one member of the party will try out the controls, leading to Cloud taking over after that party member assures them that it doesn't seem that complicated. In this playthrough, Yuffie is the one who fiddles with the controls first, before begging Cloud to take over.

Other characters have their own reactions: Barret yells at Cloud to stop whining and man up, Red XIII can't use the controls with his paws, Cait Sith can't fit in the pilot's seat, Cid wishes he was flying, and Vincent tersely tells us that Reno is getting away.

But it's Tifa who gives the true explanation for this scene: Cloud is indeed motion-sick and claustrophobic, but Tifa suggests that Cloud pilot the submarine, because she's vaguely aware of a rumour that people stop being motion-sick when they're driving. And as it turns out, Cloud indeed stops being motion-sick when he drives.

This is a completely missable explanation of events that depends entirely on trying to figure out the game code, to make sure Tifa is the character programmed to act in this scene.
 
Cloud and Yuffie also have some interesting interactions on the Highwind. There's an initial convo, which may still happen so I won't spoil it, and a generic line afterwards that changes pre-and-post Underwater Reactor mission.


Like I said: Talk to everyone, twice. :D
 
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This letter is weird; part of it is written as if it were written directly after the events of the Nibelheim Incident, part of it as if it were written later, and while it clarifies some aspects of Tifa's survival, not all. Zangan… Rescued her from the reactor, stabilized her with Cure (hey, magic used in the narrative! At last!), then left to Midgar to find a doctor, and then… What? Tifa woke up, he wasn't there, so she just… Left? Also to Midgar? And Zangan came back to Nibelheim and couldn't find Tifa anywhere? What's the time frame here? He says "several years have passed." I'm honestly more confused than I was before reading this. My best guess is that the letter was written on two separate occasions - one after the Nibelheim Incident, left behind as an explanation to Tifa in case she woke up and Zangan was gone, and another years later when he came back to Nibelheim and decided to add an addendum to the old letter that had never been found in case Tifa came around again.

People doubtless already responded to this but when updates happen before I get out of bed I simply dissociate and refuse to perceive the rest of the thread so I can reply like I was first; the letter definitely means that Zangan brought Tifa to Midgar then fucked off and left her there, since that's the simplest explanation for why she was even there in the first place running a slum bar and not Mountain Hobo Woman punching tigers to eat their raw flesh.

A Shinra employee approaches them, carrying food, and… opens the vats? I know Hojo takes the concept of a 'security protocol' fairly lightly but this is still such an incredibly easy escape. The employee opens the door, Zack knocks him out, and then he opens Cloud's vat.

I'll cut the employee just a little slack here because Zack is for some reason Built Different and simply did not bond with the Jenova cells at all (as previously mentioned in the reports) so it would've been totally out of left field for him to regain consciousness and make a break for it. Perhaps even moreso because it's Zack and Zack has ADHD so you know how tough lying in wait for his moment to strike was-

Then the soldiers approach Cloud, who is moaning helplessly on the ground, and… This is the part where the scene kinda breaks for me.

Soldier: "What do you want to do with him?"
Cloud: "...Ah… ughhhh…"
Commander: "Forget it. Just leave him."
[They leave.]

I… don't buy that? Like, why would they go to the trouble of executing Zack and then decide to just leave Cloud be? Even if they think he's dying, they just finished off the other guy. Even if they think he's basically braindead, he's still a body full of active Jenova cells. Does Hojo not want his escaped experiment? I could buy that he's already dismissed Cloud as a failure, but it's not like they have to go to any extra lengths to catch him, he's right there. Cloud is a total freebie and they leave him just… Because.

Yeeeeah this is fully inexplicable. Crisis Core changes this, naturally, and parts of the relevant CG cutscene was backported into Advent Children Complete so I don't know if you've seen it yourself or not.

It seems the latter is most likely, but it feels like such a long time to be floating in a tank. I mean, I assume other things happened to them, of course, but still, like - Cloud was still wearing the same Shinra uniform he wore on the day of his capture. That's an explicit plot point with Zack finding him a change of clothes! And sure, Hojo is not big on hygiene, but it just feels kind of excessive.

They're floating suspended in tanks full of mako with their balls full of jenova cells, I don't think the microbes responsible for BO can survive in that kind of environment.


I misread the second image at first so at a glance I thought it was

"You are NOT getting this Huge Materia!!"
*Cloud takes a single step forward*
"So you ARE getting this Huge Materia!"

And given the vibes of Shinra getting clapped this update can you blame me.


You absolute dorks. You're lucky I felt bad for you.

Gotta love a well-behaved prisoner who appreciates not getting folded in half around Tifa's fist.

I genuinely think that it's really good and important as part of the overall FF7 narrative: In the midst of all the chaos and confusion and mind-bending twists, in the midst of all the setbacks, Sephiroth's victories, Shinra's treachery, Meteor's summoning, Cloud's coma, Tifa's despair, the fantastic but emotionally taxing memory journey revealing so much buried shame and pain, having this scene where the protagonists show up and utterly floss on Shinra is a really welcome upbeat, a reminder that, oh yeah, we're fucking badasses.

Honestly after FF7's tendency to follow the RPG trope of stringing you along with a race against time to collect one or more macguffins, never quite getting as bad as FF4 was with the crystals but coming close, it is kind of a wild swerve how many large and unqualified Ws the heroes can get against Shinra in the Huge Materia arc. Especially since it is in fact totally possible to fail all four Huge Materia 'subquests', so in a way this break in convention is down to You Specifically rising to the challenge.

We climb to the surface, and pressure changes hurt poor Yuffie, who is the most miserable person I could have possibly taken on this mission.

THE EMERALD WEAPON. Our party can only hold their breath for 20 minutes. Sense is useless as this enemy has more than 30k HP and so it will return no information. LET'S DO THIS. BIG GUARD, REGEN ALL, LET'S GO

…ah.

CLOUD STRIFE'S FUN LIFESTREAM VACATION WAS MERELY THE PRELUDE TO YUFFIE KISARAGI'S TORMENTOUS NIGHTMARE
 
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Yeah I'm an absolute sucker for stuff like this. That visceral sense of how far the player has progressed, as old challenges come back and find they've been completely surpassed.
 
Zack: [Sits down and turns to Cloud.] "What're you gonna do once we get to Midgar?"
Cloud: "..."
Zack: [He gets up again.] "I know what I'm gonna do. I got a place I can crash at for a while…"
Zack: "No wait, the mother lives there too. Guess that's out."
Cloud: "..."
Zack: "Yep… gotta change my plan!"
This bit is absolutely perfect. Zack briefly considering crashing at Aeriths place and then going "no wait she lives with her mom, that'd be awkward." What a dork.
 
I had to haul out my biggest guns and Emerald still nearly kicked my ass:




In retrospect, I think I could probably manage the fight more efficiently, but I think to do it right I really need endgame tech.
 
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That voice you got flashes to occasionally in the earlier parts of the game? With the context we have now, it's easy to infer that it's Zack.

I remember thinking this too at some point but... is it? It references things like Cloud's skinned knees as a kid which maybe Cloud talked about to Zack but feels nostalgic in the way it's stated, and the way it tries to lead him through why he didn't visit Tifa makes me increasingly certain it's the ghost-child-like fragment of Cloud's own self. Omicron mentions that the Backseater kind of drops off in the story, and I consider it a shame, but this would put it's last appearance (before the journey into Cloud's mind) as being his possession in the Temple of the Ancients.

This may be something that's changed in the Remake; the similar moment of unconsciousness seems to imply this interpretation of it being Zack. It wouldn't be the first time the extended canon has reinterpreted something (as we've seen from the variations on Sephiroth's death).
 
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IMO them leaving Cloud makes a sort of dark sense. The grunts taking one look at Cloud, see he's only marginally more coherent and vocal than a potato, look at their surroundings, and go "Yeah. Why bother requisition for an extra mag?" Providing a stark contrast to Zack, who had implicitly spent weeks / months crossing multiple continents taking his time to treat Cloud like a person and doing his best to care for him.

Also providing yet more reason for Cloud's mind to snap like a KitKat Bar. Watching the person who rescued and took care of him die next a few feet away and the killers not even bothering to do the same with him because the captain, in contempt or even pity, just… doesn't expect him to make it to town. The only one worth hunting taken care of.
 
It is interesting to me how much Zack whiffs in actual FF7. He is very much a character whose legend grew in the telling (of Crisis Core).

And it's a big contrast, because Crisis Core's Zack lines up with what you think of when you hear "Soldier First Class". FF7!Zack meanwhile loses both of his on-screen fights, and his death is emphasized by how sudden and brutal it is, not his doomed moral victory of finally becoming what SOLDIER could not make him: a Hero.

Now part of this is gameplay. Crisis Core is Zack's story, it ending with Zack getting shot before he could draw his weapon would be anti-climactic. Same with Zack's duel with Sephiroth at Nibelheim, it was the one place where Zack crosses blades with Sephiroth in canon so it not being turned into a boss fight was never on the table.

Ultimately, I think it's a matter of taste. Sakaguchi for FF7 allegedly said "No last words, no dramatic last stands", and the game pretty well reflects that with it's storyline deaths. Crisis Core, made long after that edict went away, is all about last words and dramatic last stands. This is also something that Remake has issues with, most notably with how it treats the deaths of Biggs, Jessie, and Wedge. I think that's why the ultimate revelation of Remake was the survival of Zack of his dramatic last stand.

Crisis Core / FF7R Zack got to live the legend. FF7 Zack died in the dirt, his dreams and ambitions cut short, with only rescuing Cloud to his name.
 
It is interesting to me how much Zack whiffs in actual FF7. He is very much a character whose legend grew in the telling (of Crisis Core).

And it's a big contrast, because Crisis Core's Zack lines up with what you think of when you hear "Soldier First Class". FF7!Zack meanwhile loses both of his on-screen fights, and his death is emphasized by how sudden and brutal it is, not his doomed moral victory of finally becoming what SOLDIER could not make him: a Hero.

Now part of this is gameplay. Crisis Core is Zack's story, it ending with Zack getting shot before he could draw his weapon would be anti-climactic. Same with Zack's duel with Sephiroth at Nibelheim, it was the one place where Zack crosses blades with Sephiroth in canon so it not being turned into a boss fight was never on the table.

Ultimately, I think it's a matter of taste. Sakaguchi for FF7 allegedly said "No last words, no dramatic last stands", and the game pretty well reflects that with it's storyline deaths. Crisis Core, made long after that edict went away, is all about last words and dramatic last stands. This is also something that Remake has issues with, most notably with how it treats the deaths of Biggs, Jessie, and Wedge. I think that's why the ultimate revelation of Remake was the survival of Zack of his dramatic last stand.

Crisis Core / FF7R Zack got to live the legend. FF7 Zack died in the dirt, his dreams and ambitions cut short, with only rescuing Cloud to his name.
Personally I am a huge sucker for FFVII Zack but I'll admit it's in huge part as having had family members who required constant care and extended family who were similar (if, mercifully, less extreme) in cognitive decline so I have unlimited respect for Zack unhesitatingly taking care of Cloud with zero intent to hand him off whilst also displaying infinite patience and understanding.
 
Personally I am a huge sucker for FFVII Zack but I'll admit it's in huge part as having had family members who required constant care and extended family who were similar (if, mercifully, less extreme) in cognitive decline so I have unlimited respect for Zack unhesitatingly taking care of Cloud with zero intent to hand him off whilst also displaying infinite patience and understanding.
Well, at least we can see why Zack's generally regarded as this swell guy, both among the few who knew him (such as Aeris and Cloud) and the fandom in general. Tried to stop a rampaging psycho supersoldier from tearing apart a town (failed, but points for trying nonetheless), tried to save this one random nobody even though he's just a drooling vegetable for god knows how long, and actually treats him like a human being. And despite the horrors of the Wutai war, the Neibelheim massacre, and Gaia knows what Hojo did to them while they were imprisoned, he still keeps a strong, chipper presence (even if he is partially doing it to keep a brave face after all he's been through).
 
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New Threat cleans up the translation of the lifestream sequence+beyond, and even gives an option to skip the whole thing in case the player wants to get past it. It does the same for the Kalm Flashback, the Water Tower Promise, and the Materia Tutorial.

The mod also adds something to the Submarine Hangar, but I will get to that later.

As for the Zack Flashback, New Threat makes two important changes. The first is that Cloud faces escalating waves of normal battles, with Zack dying when the player finally loses. The second is that this flashback is where Cloud learns Omnislash. Barret does not get his final LB in Corel, but I will get to that later.

If she is alive, Aerith will join Cloud in watching the Zack Flashback. After the camera pans up from Flashback Cloud at the end, it pans back down to show Actual Cloud and Aerith standing on the cliff. They talk about what Zack meant to them, and Aerith will get her final LB, Great Gospel.
 
New Threat cleans up the translation of the lifestream sequence+beyond, and even gives an option to skip the whole thing in case the player wants to get past it. It does the same for the Kalm Flashback, the Water Tower Promise, and the Materia Tutorial.

The mod also adds something to the Submarine Hangar, but I will get to that later.

As for the Zack Flashback, New Threat makes two important changes. The first is that Cloud faces escalating waves of normal battles, with Zack dying when the player finally loses. The second is that this flashback is where Cloud learns Omnislash. Barret does not get his final LB in Corel, but I will get to that later.

If she is alive, Aerith will join Cloud in watching the Zack Flashback. After the camera pans up from Flashback Cloud at the end, it pans back down to show Actual Cloud and Aerith standing on the cliff. They talk about what Zack meant to them, and Aerith will get her final LB, Great Gospel.
I'll also add that getting Cloud's level 4 limit break (AND his ultimate weapon) now involves a pretty sick one on one duel with Zack's ghost atop the hill where he died.
 
IMO them leaving Cloud makes a sort of dark sense. The grunts taking one look at Cloud, see he's only marginally more coherent and vocal than a potato, look at their surroundings, and go "Yeah. Why bother requisition for an extra mag?" Providing a stark contrast to Zack, who had implicitly spent weeks / months crossing multiple continents taking his time to treat Cloud like a person and doing his best to care for him.
Not wasting a bullet makes sense in this case, but they have boots and Cloud isn't protecting his neck.

Is there a reason they wouldn't just stomp on his throat repeatedly?

I freely admit I'm already biased in Crisis Core's handling of this, but I'd argue them just not finding Cloud makes more sense all together.
 
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Not wasting a bullet makes sense in this case, but they have boots and Cloud isn't protecting his neck.

Is there a reason they wouldn't just stomp on his throat repeatedly?

I freely admit I'm already biased in Crisis Core's handling of this, but I'd argue them just not finding Cloud makes more sense all together.
See again that it could be the officer's pity at seeing. Well. A vegetable. Who they just killed the caretaker for. In the Wastes outside Midgar. Exposed to the elements (it rains shortly after).

Even in its brutality it humanizes that these are people and they might just be incapable of ordering / putting on somebody else's mind "I shot to death a person who couldn't even form a coherent sentence after their friend was shot standing over them".
 
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