Itinerant: A Pilgrim Quest
- Location
- scrabbling
[X] Looked through your possessions carefully, looking for anything strange.
[X] Attempted to focus and try to remember something more.
[X] Attempted to focus and try to remember something more.
- Location
- St. Petersburg
This... is unexpected. And very puzzling. It should take about a month or a few for the wounds to close like that, so a timeskip is understandable. However, to be completely unconscious for a month (who fed us?), the feeling of memory loss, being removed from known lands and being placed on a crossroads makes me think a rational explanation to what happened would be hard to come by. If anything could make me believe the Saints were real in the setting...
The peasants' faith is in the Saints, without a question. They know about the swamps and say those are relatively nearby. So where exactly are we? Could we be in the north?
[x] Asked the men a question…
-[x] …what land are you in.
[x] Looked through your possessions carefully, looking for anything strange.
A shield adorned wih an image of a lynx? That's new. I guess Ulla could have commissioned it out of respect. What else is not how we remember it?
Edit: our character sheet will probably need an update once we figure our how we ended up here and how much time has passed.
The peasants' faith is in the Saints, without a question. They know about the swamps and say those are relatively nearby. So where exactly are we? Could we be in the north?
It's a different monastery than the one we are heading to, sure, but maybe Owini knows how to find it?
[x] Asked the men a question…
-[x] …what land are you in.
[x] Looked through your possessions carefully, looking for anything strange.
A shield adorned wih an image of a lynx? That's new. I guess Ulla could have commissioned it out of respect. What else is not how we remember it?
Edit: our character sheet will probably need an update once we figure our how we ended up here and how much time has passed.
Neither this, nor our shield are listed there.
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6.2 Memories Like Wounds, Words Like Balms
Gargulec
impact!
- Location
- a garden
Check your things and try to remember! And maybe update your journal? Anyway. The update is here!
Gripped by dread, you opened your sack, and searched it thoroughly, as if expecting to find something amiss, something out of place; something that could explain the mysteries around. And at first, you found nothing like that – all was in order, your meagre wealth, and other possessions, left the way you had last remembered them. Yet, guided by some unseen thought, you searched further, at last reaching for the Book of Roots, and as you touched its heavy covers, still bearing the mark of a blade, you felt your heart swell, and you barely could bring yourself to open it.
Finally overcoming this strange weakness of limbs, you looked inside, and between pages, found a slip that you had never seen before; and it was not parchment, but rather a finer material, known as papyrus. You held it in your hand for a moment, uncertain as to its origins, before trying to see what was contained within – and you found no words, no texts, no letters of any language, but rather a drawing, on which a large bird swooped from the sky to grab in its claws a woman, who was falling down, and above her was a very narrow bridge.
For some time, you could not draw your eyes away, as if an enchantment had been put on this strange depiction; and perhaps that was very much the truth, for the longer you held it, the more troubled your thoughts grew, and your unease only deepened. And although the sky above was clear, and the day was very fine, you felt as if in the evening, when light fades, and shapes of things become uncertain, or as if in the state of a dream half-broken, which comes over men in grey hours of the night, when they no longer sleep, but are not fully awake yet.
And it was perhaps that strange uncertainty, that lack of focus, which stirred your memory, and brought forth from it an image of a lake-shore under a sky which was like iron, and of ravens cawing over you; and then of a touch and a voice which you could never forget, and you could not remember it. And you remembered a cloak of feather, and the warmth of a hearth tended by a lone woman.
And you knew there was more to it; and yet, trying to think of it, to find it in the treasury of your mind, you stumbled blindly, like trying to read from a book by night; knowing that the wisdom is in your hands, and yet being unable to draw from it, to see it.
Hoping to perhaps find a shred of light like the strange drawing, you looked through the book more, but found no other papyrus, nothing you had not seen before. And yet, the search was not futile, for as you turned page after page, by chance or the grace of the Saints, you opened once again the description of the law, and read the gloss which was by it; the same that you had first seen on the snowy night, unable to decipher it at that time. And it read:
You did not know the meaning of those words, and they too added to the uncertainty from which you suffered. But then one of the men you travelled with, seeing you in such a melancholy, offered you his wineskin, to cheer you up, and as you drank, he said to you:
"It was fortunate that we had found you; it is a good thing to assist a pilgrim on their way, and particularly when their road is winding. I can see and tell from the look of your face that you had not found much kindness in the world, but now, with us, you have nothing to worry."
And the other man, smiling broadly, added to his words.
"For we ride to offer praise and thanks for the life we had been granted, even if we did not do much to earn it."
The first nodded, and sharing the smile of his companion, spoke again, and it seemed to you very strange that such a simple farmer as him could wield such saintly rhetoric:
"And I think to myself, although I am not much learned, and I do not know the philosophers of old, that if I am alive, then it must please the Saints to see me alive; and if I die, then it must be because they in their wisdom thought my time to be done. Praised be their goodness!"
His companion nodded, and spoke:
"Thus, no matter how it came to be, it is good and pious to thank for the life you live, and do not regret having it; and even if it was saved through a very grave sin, as happens with those who betray all that they hold dear to be spared, it is nonetheless a thing that cannot be called wretched."
The first one to speak offered you some cheese to go with the drink, and some bread, so that you could sate your hunger, and added his final thought:
"For those who live are those who can atone; a chance like that is not given to those who are departed."
And you said to them…
[ ] …that you agree with them.
[ ] …that you do not agree with them.
[ ] …that this is not real, and you are still fevered.
6.2 Memories Like Wounds, Words Like Balms
Gripped by dread, you opened your sack, and searched it thoroughly, as if expecting to find something amiss, something out of place; something that could explain the mysteries around. And at first, you found nothing like that – all was in order, your meagre wealth, and other possessions, left the way you had last remembered them. Yet, guided by some unseen thought, you searched further, at last reaching for the Book of Roots, and as you touched its heavy covers, still bearing the mark of a blade, you felt your heart swell, and you barely could bring yourself to open it.
Finally overcoming this strange weakness of limbs, you looked inside, and between pages, found a slip that you had never seen before; and it was not parchment, but rather a finer material, known as papyrus. You held it in your hand for a moment, uncertain as to its origins, before trying to see what was contained within – and you found no words, no texts, no letters of any language, but rather a drawing, on which a large bird swooped from the sky to grab in its claws a woman, who was falling down, and above her was a very narrow bridge.
For some time, you could not draw your eyes away, as if an enchantment had been put on this strange depiction; and perhaps that was very much the truth, for the longer you held it, the more troubled your thoughts grew, and your unease only deepened. And although the sky above was clear, and the day was very fine, you felt as if in the evening, when light fades, and shapes of things become uncertain, or as if in the state of a dream half-broken, which comes over men in grey hours of the night, when they no longer sleep, but are not fully awake yet.
And it was perhaps that strange uncertainty, that lack of focus, which stirred your memory, and brought forth from it an image of a lake-shore under a sky which was like iron, and of ravens cawing over you; and then of a touch and a voice which you could never forget, and you could not remember it. And you remembered a cloak of feather, and the warmth of a hearth tended by a lone woman.
And you knew there was more to it; and yet, trying to think of it, to find it in the treasury of your mind, you stumbled blindly, like trying to read from a book by night; knowing that the wisdom is in your hands, and yet being unable to draw from it, to see it.
Hoping to perhaps find a shred of light like the strange drawing, you looked through the book more, but found no other papyrus, nothing you had not seen before. And yet, the search was not futile, for as you turned page after page, by chance or the grace of the Saints, you opened once again the description of the law, and read the gloss which was by it; the same that you had first seen on the snowy night, unable to decipher it at that time. And it read:
There is also a third law, which belongs to the regal forces of the deep.
You did not know the meaning of those words, and they too added to the uncertainty from which you suffered. But then one of the men you travelled with, seeing you in such a melancholy, offered you his wineskin, to cheer you up, and as you drank, he said to you:
"It was fortunate that we had found you; it is a good thing to assist a pilgrim on their way, and particularly when their road is winding. I can see and tell from the look of your face that you had not found much kindness in the world, but now, with us, you have nothing to worry."
And the other man, smiling broadly, added to his words.
"For we ride to offer praise and thanks for the life we had been granted, even if we did not do much to earn it."
The first nodded, and sharing the smile of his companion, spoke again, and it seemed to you very strange that such a simple farmer as him could wield such saintly rhetoric:
"And I think to myself, although I am not much learned, and I do not know the philosophers of old, that if I am alive, then it must please the Saints to see me alive; and if I die, then it must be because they in their wisdom thought my time to be done. Praised be their goodness!"
His companion nodded, and spoke:
"Thus, no matter how it came to be, it is good and pious to thank for the life you live, and do not regret having it; and even if it was saved through a very grave sin, as happens with those who betray all that they hold dear to be spared, it is nonetheless a thing that cannot be called wretched."
The first one to speak offered you some cheese to go with the drink, and some bread, so that you could sate your hunger, and added his final thought:
"For those who live are those who can atone; a chance like that is not given to those who are departed."
And you said to them…
[ ] …that you agree with them.
[ ] …that you do not agree with them.
[ ] …that this is not real, and you are still fevered.
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Gargulec
impact!
- Location
- a garden
- Location
- scrabbling
[] …that you agree with them.
Personally I do not agree, but for the pilgrim who has taken many unusual courses of action for the sake of coming nearer to Step for the sake of her family, I can't formulate a different response.
edit - vote changed below
Personally I do not agree, but for the pilgrim who has taken many unusual courses of action for the sake of coming nearer to Step for the sake of her family, I can't formulate a different response.
edit - vote changed below
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LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
By the looks of it, they thought we were dead and sent our corpse on the river. Thankfully, they didn't cremate us. Poor Maid, taking care of a corpse while all alone.
Obviously, the Old Man is us.
What I'm not sure about is the Old Woman and the Three Wishes. I guess all three wishes were used on remembering who the Old Man was, and he kept doing something to forget.
Maybe it symbolizes the number of times we've strayed from and was set straight to the Path to the City of Steppe without realizing it?
This is hard.
Gargulec
impact!
- Location
- a garden
Oh, don't put too much mind into it. It's just a story from far-away place, which you will certainly never visit.
Probably? The road ahead is very long.
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- Location
- United States
[X] …that you do not agree with them.
I can't remember if the idea of purgatory exists here, but yes, generally, only the living can atone. That said, I believe there are things that cannot be forgiven, no matter how many good deeds you perform. Betraying everyone and everything you love just to live is one of those things.
His exact phrasing is "those who betray". Not people who flee to save themselves, or fail to save another, but those who hurt their dearest things to save themselves. Think of Ulbert, who betrayed his family and home in order to live as he wanted. If he had survived the battle and killed his father, would that be a life blessed by the Saints?
EDIT:
It's sounding more and more as though we've caught the attention of the Morrigan.
I can't remember if the idea of purgatory exists here, but yes, generally, only the living can atone. That said, I believe there are things that cannot be forgiven, no matter how many good deeds you perform. Betraying everyone and everything you love just to live is one of those things.
His exact phrasing is "those who betray". Not people who flee to save themselves, or fail to save another, but those who hurt their dearest things to save themselves. Think of Ulbert, who betrayed his family and home in order to live as he wanted. If he had survived the battle and killed his father, would that be a life blessed by the Saints?
EDIT:
"a large bird swooped from the sky to grab in its claws a woman, who was falling down, and above her was a very narrow bridge."
"an image of a lake-shore under a sky which was like iron, and of ravens cawing over you"
"And you remembered a cloak of feather, and the warmth of a hearth tended by a lone woman."
"an image of a lake-shore under a sky which was like iron, and of ravens cawing over you"
"And you remembered a cloak of feather, and the warmth of a hearth tended by a lone woman."
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LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
The 1st wish was used to Remember, the 2nd to Forget, and the 3rd to Remember again! Now the Old Man has to live knowing of his horrendous deeds!
I have no idea how relevant this is to the Quest! But I'm happy I figured it out!
- Location
- United States
Hmm, but the first and third wish wasn't "to remember", he wished to know who he was.
So he wished to know himself, presumably got way too much information about how terrible and/or meaningless he was, and wished to forget it all. But he forgot too much, and made the same wish again.
I think the moral is "utilize exact wording when dealing with a genie/fairy/mysterious old woman"
So he wished to know himself, presumably got way too much information about how terrible and/or meaningless he was, and wished to forget it all. But he forgot too much, and made the same wish again.
I think the moral is "utilize exact wording when dealing with a genie/fairy/mysterious old woman"
- Location
- scrabbling
[X] …that you do not agree with them.
Ah...yes, I've changed my mind. You can wash cloth but some things are just too set, and you need to burn it entirely.
Ah...yes, I've changed my mind. You can wash cloth but some things are just too set, and you need to burn it entirely.
- Location
- St. Petersburg
Updated my journal somewhat fierce at that.
Really, though? I would disagree vehemently. Placing more value on the life of a sinner - a murderer, a traitor or what-have-you - than on the lives of their victims, just because they may atone for their actions? That is a position that can only be held by God who is Omniscient and can see into the future. Mortals should reserve the right to judge a man in accordance to the deeds he has committed. And if his deeds are foul, then he should be judged accordingly.
Seeing the most horrible depravities and deeming them 'not wretched' just because the Saints in their wisdom allowed it to happen is hardly a worth philosophy to live by. They are not the only forces at work in the world, as is confirmed by the presence of the Malefactors; and people should remember that they, too, are the instruments of the Saints through which they observe their justice. Thus, to judge a betrayer could equally be seen as the God's will.
[X] …that you do not agree with them.
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- Location
- Upon the back of the Great A'Tuin
Updated my journal somewhat fierce at that.
Really, though? I would disagree vehemently. Placing more value on the life of a sinner - a murderer, a traitor or what-have-you - than on the lives of their victims, just because they may atone for their actions? That is a position that can only be held by God who is Omniscient and can see into the future. Mortals should reserve the right to judge a man in accordance to the deeds he has committed. And if his deeds are foul, then he should be judged accordingly.
Seeing the most horrible depravities and deeming them 'not wretched' just because the Saints in their wisdom allowed it to happen is hardly a worth philosophy to live by. They are not the only forces at work in the world, as is confirmed by the presence of the Malefactors; and people should remember that they, too, are the instruments of the Saints through which they observe their justice. Thus, to judge a betrayer could equally be seen as the God's will.
To believe one's judgement is equal to that of God is a level of pretention that beggars belief and such pride is abhorrent in the eyes of the Saints. Furthermore, you are engaging in an argument that does not exist. Nobody is saying that mortals do not have the right to judge a man, although you must recall that there are Human laws and Saintly laws (Along with the law which belongs to the regal forces of the deep, as written in the gloss) and being a judge of human law does not make you equal, able, or worthy of arbitrating Saintly law.
The two wise peasants are not saying that such a terrible sin is 'not wretched' they are saying that one should not view their own life as wretched, even if it was saved via a great sin, since the only living can atone. Hence, why at the end of mortal life the final battle for an individual's soul rages, recall the death of Notkar:
and later on:
For once one has left this mortal coil they go either to Step everlasting or fall into the clutches of Malefactors.
What they propose is not that the life of a sinner is blessed by the Saints, but that even a sinner's life is a Saintly blessing and that the Saints should receive thanks and praise for such a gift. This gift of life allows the sinner the opportunity to once again find the path to Step everlasting and avoid eternal damnation.
Gargulec
impact!
- Location
- a garden
PSA: No update today again! Apologies, but some university work is going to keep me up for the better part of the evening; I badly overestimated my chances of getting it done in time. As an aside, though, I love the discussion here. You should keep it going.
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- Location
- St. Petersburg
That is a misinterpretation of my words. What I say is - is it not true that the Saints punish the wicked by sending the virtuous to confront them? Why are they universally seen as a force for good otherwise? It does not matter whether the men believe themselves to be on a mission from God or not.
I can see what you say, and how it might be necessary to value your own life if you have the will to atone for your sins. But the point he makes is ambiguous. Does a life obtained through those means have value for anyone else but a sinner and a God?
He says such a thing 'cannot be called wretched'. I say it definitely could, and people have the right to believe so. A sinner should make the effort to fix whatever mistakes they have made, but they can not complain if the reckoning catches up with them.
Also, I personally detest this line of reasoning:
This can justify anything.
We are not talking human laws - that is, legislation - at all here. For one, it does not deal with the concept of sin as far as I am aware.
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