Isekai: Otaku's Last Reward

What series? Sounds like it'd be funny to see, at least from an American standpoint.
The second Ni No Kuni game have iirc the president of an 'unnamed' country (Geoff of Mother's Basement said it was the US President) being isekai'd into the game's world as his younger self to help a young king build his own kingdom.
 
They do a lot more running of things than a US student council. Japanese schools do more 'students govern themselves,' thing. Cleaning classrooms is done by students, club funds are allocated by the councils, etc.. Obviously there's still adult guidance, but they are a bigger deal.




Airgear:



And Gamble Fish:



What are these about?
 
All I've managed to gather is something about managing the budgets for various clubs, of which Japanese schools tend to have a lot more of than American ones. But I imagine that there are at least some similarities to American student councils, re: the student store and announcements at least. Other than that, I've got no clue.
In Japan, it is pretty much expected that a student belongs to a club, and take part in club activities instead of going home.
Student council is basicly a club, for organizing other clubs, but may also include some level of rule making, mediating.
Good place for the more ambitious people to go to so they can put it in their resume, especially if from a prestigious school.
There are also clubs to enforce rules (mainly by telling people that they are breaking them, i doubt they have much in the way of official enforcement power beyond telling teachers).
 
What are these about?

Airgear is motorized rollerblades with fighting and fanservice and being sufficiently good with airgear practically gives one superpowers so John Omaha is involved because the technology in them affects the balance of power. Also he gets mindswapped with a Japanese girl for awhile.

Gamble Fish is a gambling series about a con artist. It's at a school for the elite- so some of the student council type stuff- and they get involved in various bets and cons with each other as part of their power struggles. The high-stakes gambling tournament arc has King Omaha as the surprise guest for that story.
 
They do a lot more running of things than a US student council. Japanese schools do more 'students govern themselves,' thing. Cleaning classrooms is done by students, club funds are allocated by the councils, etc.. Obviously there's still adult guidance, but they are a bigger deal.




Airgear:



And Gamble Fish:



I love air gear so much. I dropped it, but I still love it. If an isekai absolutely has to be trashy service, I hope they can follow air gear's lead and make it absolutely hilarious, memetic trashy fanservice.
 
I love air gear so much. I dropped it, but I still love it. If an isekai absolutely has to be trashy service, I hope they can follow air gear's lead and make it absolutely hilarious, memetic trashy fanservice.

You didn't miss much. The end wasn't bad, but the fun was in the skating and weirdness, not beating the villain, y'know?
 
Remember the good old days when Zero Nu Tsukaima was the gold standard for "trashy isekai that wastes its premise" that fanfics here would try to make better? These days its all "the world literally runs on RPG rules that only the protagonist is smart enough to exploit", "the protagonist has super special powers no one else gets that totally outclass everything and reduce tension to zero", "everyone falls in love with the protagonist no matter what and it never has downsides", and "lets throw in some raping and pillaging for shock value" etc etc.
 
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It's a major disappointment of my mine of how modern isekai have changed since the days of Magical Knight Rayearth and Inuyusha which had well written female protagonists that had to go through challenges to get their power and where far more enjoyable than most modern Isekai to me.
FOZ was the shitz when it was in SB
Got me into isekai and SI
 
Remember the good old days when Zero Nu Tsukaima was the gold standard for "trashy isekai that wastes its premise" that fanfics here would try to make better? These days its all "the world literally runs on RPG rules that only the protagonist is smart enough to exploit", "the protagonist has super special powers no one else gets that totally outclass everything and reduce tension to zero", "everyone falls in love with the protagonist no matter what and it never has downsides", and "lets throw in some raping and pillaging for shock value" etc etc.

Its only gonna get worse unless disney or some western studios invest into the company to encouraging to make something less misogynistic. The Japanese Animation industry is badly inwards thinking and enabling the worst habits in the media
 
Its only gonna get worse unless disney or some western studios invest into the company to encouraging to make something less misogynistic. The Japanese Animation industry is badly inwards thinking and enabling the worst habits in the media
you know what
here
This is so brazenly counterfactual to reality that I'm not even sure what to say about it in response aside from noting that fact.

why are you like this
 
I mean, atleast with FoZ there's a certain fun to seeing how mad people get over the male protagonist having his balls busted. And honestly it seems to be that tsundere love interests were a moderating factor in the wish fulfillment of teen boy anime. They kept anime fuckboi protagonists in their place and without them all hell breaks loose.
 
If only they could have just gotten rid of the SIs instead and just followed the adventures of hotblooded female protagonists.
 
ZnT's Fantasy 1600s was also fresh and unique compared to the endless parade of D&D+DQ knockoffs. "What can change the nature of a setting?" Cannons, pike-and-shot, and magitech airships, apparently. (Though FF4 did most of that almost 15 years earlier...)
 
I actually found a comedy reverse isekai where an uncle was both in a coma in our world and has been adventuring quite badly without knowing the modern tropes that had been developed before truck-kun gave him a coma. He had magic and has mostly himself to blame with his ridiculous obliviousness in him having a hard time when adventuring in this quite surprisingly generic fantasy world. Also the people inside that world are horrible and extremely judgmental on plain faced people in our world calling them monsters with the exception of the tsundere Elf mage the uncle keeps bumping in to a lot. Also he was an avid Sega fan and was isekaid before they announced they won't be making anymore console and his reaction was too funny to be spoiled.

Another isekai story I like is when the sister of the chosen hero was the main protagonist rather than the hero herself and it was fun seeing the many ways she tries to help her sister by just being there and cooking delicious food for her sister, the royal family, and various other guests.
 
I mean, atleast with FoZ there's a certain fun to seeing how mad people get over the male protagonist having his balls busted. And honestly it seems to be that tsundere love interests were a moderating factor in the wish fulfillment of teen boy anime. They kept anime fuckboi protagonists in their place and without them all hell breaks loose.

I wonder if maybe that might actually have a solid point there.

To be a tsundere, a character needs to have a reason to clash with the Bland Protagonist Character (hereby referred to as the BPC). That means that to keep them being tsun, they need to keep on finding reasons. Now, the bad ways for this to be done involves other girls as they fight over "comic" misunderstandings, but beyond a certain point it's simply easier to give the tsundere things she wants that she can badger the BPC into helping her with. To fill her narrative role, it's often easiest to give her her own plotlines and her own desires. Now, the nature of the shitty anime is that often these plotlines will prove her wrong or she'll have to ask the BPC for help (or the BPC helps her without asking so she can grudgingly tell him she didn't need his help, but thank you).

Such things lessen her agency, but she has to be given some to be lessened which is more than "Oh, protagonist-kun, you're so amazing in every way" characters get. A tsundere might only be two dimensional - tsuntsun and deredere - but that's still more dimensions than love interests who aren't expected to do anything but service the ego of the BPC are allowed.
 
I wonder if maybe that might actually have a solid point there.

To be a tsundere, a character needs to have a reason to clash with the Bland Protagonist Character (hereby referred to as the BPC). That means that to keep them being tsun, they need to keep on finding reasons. Now, the bad ways for this to be done involves other girls as they fight over "comic" misunderstandings, but beyond a certain point it's simply easier to give the tsundere things she wants that she can badger the BPC into helping her with. To fill her narrative role, it's often easiest to give her her own plotlines and her own desires. Now, the nature of the shitty anime is that often these plotlines will prove her wrong or she'll have to ask the BPC for help (or the BPC helps her without asking so she can grudgingly tell him she didn't need his help, but thank you).

Such things lessen her agency, but she has to be given some to be lessened which is more than "Oh, protagonist-kun, you're so amazing in every way" characters get. A tsundere might only be two dimensional - tsuntsun and deredere - but that's still more dimensions than love interests who aren't expected to do anything but service the ego of the BPC are allowed.
Eh, shifting definitions.

The tsundere is supposed to have a rough start which moves to a genuinely loving relationship over time, which means we get the funny notes of relationship trouble hijinks softened by later affection to avoid the "well too bitchy, why is this even a relationship" clause.
However writing random violence points is easier than character development.

ZnT is a good showcase of it.
Early Louise was approaching Saito as though she acquired a pet, then shifted on to enjoying someone who actually treats her as an equal(everyone else is either above because Zero, or below because most likely heir of a Duke, except for Kirche who's her family feud).
Early Saito was approaching Louise as though he got a magical girlfriend(and thus got soundly trashed when he goes too far), and then after that the relationship is closer to prickly siblings being assholes to each other but sticking together when the going gets tough.

After Saito's last stand and near death experience, they both realize how much they meant to each other and moved to romantic with Louise still packing a lot of insecurity about her relationship and Saito...frankly being a wandering horndog of a harem protagonist. But random violence because of being petty assholes to each other is greatly diminished, replaced with genuine thoughtlessness and taking relationships for granted.

Never watched the anime, but what I hear is that they ramped up the exploding because its considered a selling point and marketing executives are incapable of subtlety :V

Which really goes back to the modern Isekai formula: its gone past popularity into fully milked monetization, which is kind of squashing out the actually somewhat deep stuff which just happened to fail to mark all the marketing checklist(harem anime of all sorts are one common offender, you can, without watching, pretty much immediately know there's always going to be the same paper thin formulaic archetypes, introduced in rapid succession to ensure broadest appeal and fastest sales, compared to say Ranma from way back)
 
Well, I think it important to recognize that "Isekai" as in "Otherworld" has a very long presence and history, as you point out, but also in anime.

For example, Inuyasha is basically an isekai. There are also more modern ones, such as Familiar of Zero, which has quite a few tropes that are evident in the current isekai fad, though not as badly handled. (Wow, citing Familiar of Zero as a good isekai does show how badly the genre has fallen). I actually tend to feel that Sword Art Online is not really the jumping off point for modern Isekai, but rather for a specific element of an overpowered hero who has no difficulty pwning every obstacle in his way. That probably has shown up in other genres as well, not just isekai, it's just that modern isekai tend to be really prevalent with it. Mainly because (as has been pointed out) most of these isekai are self-published web novels that happened to become popular. Thus they tend to have a lot of the same problems as fantasy novels written by teenage DnD fans.

I don't mind criticizing the modern isekai, but I think it is important to not slander the whole genre. It would sort of be like reading Eragon and thus declaring most of high fantasy stories to be trash.

I think a better approach is to consider what are some specific things that are a problem with many modern isekai, and what are some specific interesting variations that could be written. Since so many of the authors are teenagers writing on the internet, it's actually possible that criticism on a forum might end up having an impact.

I would identify some the main common isekai problems as follows:

1: The lack of concern about returning to their own world and family. One of the major elements of most traditional isekai stories is that the protagonists return to their own world, changed by the experience. The lack of this element is a major problem with most isekai, because it removes one of the driving causes of character development. A few can get around this, such as Re:Zero, by putting other obstacles in place that drive character development. So I wouldn't say this is a hard rule, that a quest to return home be included, but if an author decides to leave it out, they have to think hard about what the internal conflict will be that drives the character development. Thus, the current trend of killing the main character is not a great method for putting them in another world. Originally it was a homage to Yu Yu Hakusho, (Konosuba in particular was parodying this), but consider how very enlightening his death was for Yusuke compared to how it has hardly any emotional impact on modern isekai characters. Not to mention the entire first arc of Yu Yu Hakusho was about Yusuke trying to return to life.

2: Granting the main hero an ability that makes it so he succeeds without struggle. While there can be some interest in how an overpowered character acts, it again removes a major source of character development. Plus it gets boring very quickly. Granting the protagonist an ability is okay, but I think it would be much more interesting to take an average person, and stick them in a fantasy world without gaining any powers. Forcing them to try and find a different way to survive. Of course, granting an ability can be okay, as long as there is some major effort required by the character. For example, a character that was reborn as a child, but retained memories of a previous life and decided to put more effort into his life. Rather than appealing to someone who wants power without working hard, it would suggest the need for changing one's character to succeed. Other elements that have the same problem are modeling the new world on a game world, with various level abilities, and other such user interfaces allowing a protagonist to avoid the difficulties expected with arriving in a new world.

3: Treating the characters around the protagonist as existing to serve the needs of the protagonist. Not giving these other characters their own backgrounds, motivations, and values creates a boring world were the protagonist doesn't have conflict with or difficulty persuading others around him.

Basically, it all becomes summed up by the way too many current isekai remove sources of conflict. This makes the story uninteresting, and limits or eliminates character development. Perhaps you can get away with doing a few things that eliminate certain types of conflict (such as a universal translator) and then focus on the other conflicts that remain. Avoid conflict altogether however, has problems as a story. Unless you intend to just tell a slice of life story in another world, which I suppose could be interesting, but begs the question of why put a person from this world in a new world? It would be better to tell a slice of life story with characters that originate in the other world.

Some ideas that come from this that could make an isekai more interesting:

1: A story of a "hero" summoned to another world who resents being essentially kidnapped and sent off to fight some demon lord. There are a few isekai stories that have done this but none very well. Rising of the Shield Hero is the closest, but that involves other major aspects to the story that take away from the aspect that summoning a hero is not a nice thing to do.

2a: A story of a person trapped in another world via a portal or something, but without all the infrastructure of people. Essentially more of a survival story set in a fantasy world. This would have elements of how dependent we are on modern technology, and how difficult survival can be. You might even deny the protagonist magic, so he basically has to survive in a magic world without magic. Something like Primitive Technology, only with much more dire problems if the protagonist fails. The ulimate goal is to figure out how to reactivate the portal and get home.

2b: A story of a person trapped in another world, in which the protagonist doesn't have magic, but they do have their knowledge of modern technology. Of course, without a lot of the basics of technology it's really difficult to get the industrial revolution started. They need to try and convince other people to help them try to develop some technology, but they of course only know what is possible, not how to really do most of the things. For example, how many of us could build a water powered loom? Though that was one of the major starting points of the industrial revolution, and what would be considered most valuable in a medieval/early Renaissance society. Maybe it would be a good idea to make the hero someone with some actual skills. Like a plumber. That would be interesting. A plumber, trapped in another world, struggling with a society that only has outhouses and no running water, struggling to build a septic system that actually works with only the limited technology in the world he is in.

3: A character from the other world gets trapped in our world. Something like The Devil is a Part-timer, but less comedy, more drama.

4: Someone from our world is kidnapped and made a slave in the other world. He can't speak the language, doesn't understand what is happening, and just wants to get back home. This could allow for some interesting stories about power, freedom, coercion, etc.

Hell, even within the current crop of "isekai" stories there are totally different genres that have been developing in parallel with only mild cross-pollination. The "otome-game" style isekais are completely and entirely different from the stuff that has managed to penetrate into the mainstream western awareness, which absolutely take most of their trappings from a mix of shoujo-manga, bodice-ripper romance novels and, of course, otomege. It's a style highly distinct from both the "JRPG-isekai" and the old-school shoujo-manga isekai, with surprisingly little in common with either.

This is really interesting genre. Especially since most of them seem to reincarnate as the villian of the story. Usually the story then seems to be about how the story would have gone differently if the villain was a nicer person.

I mean, atleast with FoZ there's a certain fun to seeing how mad people get over the male protagonist having his balls busted. And honestly it seems to be that tsundere love interests were a moderating factor in the wish fulfillment of teen boy anime. They kept anime fuckboi protagonists in their place and without them all hell breaks loose

Actually, that's a very good point. Tsundere characters in shounen originally were mainly about pointing out the protagonist's lack of maturity. Basically his love interest is attracted to the good parts of his personality, but repelled by the negative parts. This is why she switches back and forth in her attitude towards him, and why usually as the story went on and the hero matured, she would stop being tsuntsun. (Manga Akane Tendo for example). Then the shoujo variation developed, where the tsundere was primary about her immaturity, and how she needed to mature to have a good romance. Then that version seems to have migrated back into the shounen as simply one more character archetype to throw in to the mix because you gotta have a tsundere. Which is why a lot of modern tsundere fall flat, instead of agreeing with them that the protagonist needs to grow up, you sit there wondering why they are mad.
 
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On the desire to return I think you see it a lot more in the older ones, where its taken for granted that they WANT to go home for much of the story, until at the end when given a way home, they realize they made a life and friends on this side and have to choose between mundane reality and family versus fantasy and friends.

ZnT shows a decent one. Saito initially had little homesickness, which was revised in later volumes when he died and was resurrected, and possibly retconned into part of the familiar bond suppressing those feelings, but by the time he had the choice at all, he genuinely fell in love with Louise and recognized that for their relationship to work, ONE of them would have to be bereft of their family to fit into an unfamiliar world.

By contrast, modern isekai tends to take one of the following:
-The way home is explicitly guaranteed(and thus held hostage) by their summoning, and is thus not a concern, once they finish their chosen gig they get to be sent home, which also forces them to go through with their Chosen One thing. Just have their fantasy adventure and it'd be null at the end.

-They literally died already(hi Truck-kun) and got reincarnated. Theres no life waiting for them back home even if they did return. Some will persist in trying regardless.

-Their home life is depicted as horribly unfitting, incomparably dull, friendless, and otherwise unpleasant. Why would they WANT to go home?

-Their new life has immediately glued them to a bunch of dependents, be it waifus, slaves, children, or other close companions they won't give up. Usually relates to the above point, where they have no attachment to their home life.

-Their new life is outright wish fulfillment. Socially unacceptable or physically impossible desires are met in their new life. Why refuse whats effectively Heaven?

-Their overpowered cheat abilities means that they're overpowered for their home and even the world they isekai'ed into won't contain them very long. Time to go planewalking adventurer epilogue.
 
It'd be interesting to see "could go back, but decides not to because they've grown bonds since then, or can't leave the threats to ravage the world they're on without trying to do something about it," more.
 
So... how does this seasons MILFsekai fit into all this theorizing?

Another isekai story I like is when the sister of the chosen hero was the main protagonist rather than the hero herself and it was fun seeing the many ways she tries to help her sister by just being there and cooking delicious food for her sister, the royal family, and various other guests.

Color me intrigued. Name?
 
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So... how does this seasons MILFsekai fit into all this theorizing?
All I heard of it is that its harem fantasy, and the mom really wants to jump him to his dismay?
In which case mom got the Wish Fulfillment for her normally disallowed kink and the son...probably got magic and all kinds of girls, which unfortunately has his mom in the package.
 
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